IRC Logs for #circuits Wednesday, 2013-05-15

prologicamee2husky: prologic:  <<  can you explain that one to me?  <-- I don't know?00:25
prologicThe module isn't in the PYTHONPATH00:25
prologicor not installed?00:25
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amee2huskyprologic: i installed the program from the repo, and it worked fine for like a year05:52
amee2huskyand the package dependencies are all installed05:52
prologiciirc you made your home directory a virtualenv05:52
prologicso re-install it (in your home dir)05:52
prologicjust like you did with circuits05:52
amee2huskyits a package from the repo  o.O05:53
prologicyeah they're probably installed system-wide?05:53
amee2huskydoes that mean i can't use ANY system wide installed packages anymore?05:53
prologicof course you can05:53
prologicoh wait05:54
prologicno you can't05:54
prologicnot unless you re-install your virtualenv with umm05:54
prologiclet me checj05:54
amee2huskyokay, how do i un-virtualenv this thing05:54
amee2huskyi'll make the virtual thing a subdir somewhere then05:54
prologic                        Give access to the global site-packages dir to the05:55
prologic                        virtual environment05:55
prologicjust rerun it against your $HOME05:55
prologicvirtualenv --system-site-packages $HOME05:55
prologicbut honestly05:55
amee2huskyi'm surprised my whole system didn't shit itself with that instantly05:55
prologicvirtualenv's that don't inherit from the globally installed python are better anyway05:56
prologicit means you can ensure you're dependencies work properly05:56
prologicyou find dependency issues sooner05:56
amee2huskyits really a production system, not a dev one05:56
amee2huskyonly one desktop computer here so i have to mix the two05:56
prologicyou're running production stuff on your desktop?05:57
amee2huskyfor my own infrastructure, yeah05:58
prologicpublicly available online?05:58
amee2huskyonly for myself :P05:59
amee2huskybut its stuff that i use on a more or less regular basis05:59
amee2huskyso i'm surprised i didn't find anything else broken yet05:59
prologicdude get yourself a small tiny server06:00
prologicand install Proxmox VE on it06:00
amee2huskyi have a VPS06:00
prologicrather than running stuff on your desktop06:01
amee2huskyand had i done that on the VPS then it would have been major bad vibes06:01
amee2huskythe only other working computer i have is the studio computer06:03
amee2huskyand virtualizing a realtime audio system sounds like a bad idea06:03
amee2huskycan't that virtualenv thing work in a subdirectory?06:04
amee2huskyi mean, it takes a directory as parameter06:04
prologicyes it can06:05
prologicbut you are better off using virtualenvwrapper06:05
prologicgo read it's docs and install it :)06:05
prologicthen you can simply do stuff like:06:05
prologicmkvirtualenv foo06:05
prologicworkon foo06:05
amee2huskythat is why i hate manually installing things >_<06:07
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amee2huskymmh somehow the whole virtualization craze is another thing that i don't get...07:16
amee2huskyit kinda feels like... the chinese solution. use a dedicated system for everything, and when it shits itself just wipe and re-do the container07:16
amee2huskylike china makes hardware so cheap that noone cares if it dies in a few months07:18
amee2huskybut the only time where i ever see it being really useful is for hosting. like, i can get effectively a dedicated server for the price of a better webspace package07:20
amee2huskybut virtualization effectively fucks with everything that is not strictly for server stuff, which makes it a pain to use for anything else IMO07:23
prologicI disagree08:48
prologicvirtualization is the best technology of the century08:48
prologiceverything I do is all virtualization08:48
prologicit's the abstraction that virtualization provides08:48
prologicplus the flexibility to do things like08:49
prologicconfiguration management08:49
prologicinstantaneous restores and snapshots08:49
amee2huskyand why is that somehow not possible in a "normal" system?08:58
amee2huskyi'm exactly going the other way right now... at the moment i have a clusterfuck of independent scripts running on lots of different hosts and glued together with RPC protocols09:00
amee2huskyi want all of it in a single process to make it more interaction-friendly and eliminate all the needless local network connections09:01
amee2huskyi get that virtualization is a powerful tool, but it creates so much isolation that integrating it becomes the main problem, rather than solving an actual task09:02
amee2huskyvirtualization is basically virtualizing privileged operations and isolating their effect to one container. if nothing i do needs that, then i don't see the point of virtualization09:10
amee2huskyall it does is make things more complicated because i would need to SSH into my own computer to access stuff now09:11
prologicisolation is a good thing09:12
prologicnot a bad thing09:12
prologicbut yeah if you have poor designs09:12
prologicthen it becomes a "cluster fuck"09:12
amee2huskywell yeah, the design has lots of issues entirely unrelated to virtualization or not. but i feel excessive virtualization eliminates orthogonality and makes even trivial integration more resource intensive09:15
amee2huskyso you end up investig resources into vritualizing stuff, and then even more resources to bridge across the virtualized compartments09:16
amee2huskyand some things just don't really work in a virtual container... like i want to see you run any kind of realtime processing in a VM without a mess of patching and recompiling and basically working around the whole virtualization09:18
amee2huskyand then you only have an i7 doing what my old tired Athlon 2800 does09:19
prologicI can run realtime stuff in a VM11:29
prologicquite easily11:29
prologicand whilst I get some of your points11:29
prologicI don't agree with a lot of them :)11:29
prologicvirtialization has many advantages11:30
prologicand not many disadvantages11:30
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namtsuiis anyone familiar with the strongarm circuit22:52
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