IRC Logs for #circuits Wednesday, 2013-07-31

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ninkotechjgiorgi: i know. but its relatively convenient. i dont believe ssl protects from nsa at all08:18
ninkotechits just like your locked car08:18
ninkotechand i believe pgp is not secure to be used08:18
ninkotechnot trustworthy...08:18
ninkotechdifferent agents walk around and try to make every crypto author cooperate in a way -> to be able to crack the communication...08:19
ninkotechbasicaly, you are ok only if you have really good big key and own method of encryption with it... combined with some other well secure method08:20
ninkotecheven that can be deciphered if they crack your fingers, like russians do (they do not crack passwords well)08:21
ninkotechand from times of bush, potus can order someone to crush testicles of your child, if that is needed08:22
ninkotech(in front of you)08:22
ninkotechso, basically, there is nothing safe08:22
ninkotechno man is an island...08:22
jgiorgiwow, umm i'm going to respond by saying the burden of proof is on you my friend, physical force notwithstanding the point of ssl/pgp is to move the weak link from the system to the people and at that it is quite successful08:33
jgiorgisure, someone could come into my house and demand that i unlock my key, they could threaten me and i would probably comply but they could do the same for any method of security08:33
jgiorgiprovided you protect your keys the communication between two end points is secure, multiple open source implementations of both systems exist with no government access points discovered in any so far08:34
jgiorgithe issue becomes how much you trust the other side, keep in mind that issue was always there08:35
jgiorgiwe've just eliminated to the technical exploit and moved responsibility to the person08:35
ninkotech'for any method of security'  -- thats not true,  you can have plausible deniability (Thats not my house, morons - try my keys if you want)13:36
ninkotechjgiorgi: i dont believe you eliminated the technical exploit - just today i have seen security update for gpg  in debian....13:37
ninkotechand pgp is even less trustworthy than gpg is13:37
prologicat least we have tools to make it hard for the NSA13:39
ninkotechif you will remember how they found saddam and his sons once - they used encrypted phones which were provided by french company -- thinking he is secure13:39
prologicoh ooops :)13:39
prologicthey probably saw that13:39
ninkotechthey sure read this realtime13:39
prologicHello NSA!13:39
ninkotech:)13:39
prologicwell this channel is logged too13:39
prologicby my own irc bot13:39
prologicwritten in circuits13:39
prologicso blah :P13:40
ninkotechsometimes people tell me that its not possible to  do this... but even i know personally man, who was considering with his team (in this town) to backup whole internet13:40
ninkotechas they were only <20 people, they decidedto backup only czech part at last...13:40
ninkotechfuture is already here, its just not evenly distributed13:41
prologicwell I happen to agree with a lot of what you're saying13:41
prologicsecurity and privacy are one of our biggest concerns today13:41
ninkotechi am not saying nothing really controversial today :)13:41
prologicthe UK and US governments are just pissing all over us as citizens13:42
prologicand who's going to stop them?13:42
ninkotechprologic: every empire does13:42
ninkotech(piss)13:42
prologicyeah well13:42
prologictbh13:42
prologicit's about time we as a human race put a stop to this13:42
prologicit's beyond a fucking joke13:42
prologicwe allow the few to become powerful13:42
prologicand lord of the many13:42
prologicfor what?13:42
ninkotechprologic: you only opened a can of whatever, and you see few worms... you need to place the contents on the table, lol13:43
prologicso there can always be large wealth and divides between the rich and the rest of us?13:43
ninkotechprologic: rather do not provoke me, i study history a lot13:43
prologicso those pety crooks in politics, law and ceos can ensure their pockets are full?13:43
prologicwhen does it stop?13:43
ninkotechand i could talk for weeks of topic about this :D13:43
prologicso could i13:43
prologicit's just BS13:43
prologicabsolute bullshit13:43
prologichow much money does one person need13:43
prologicseirously13:44
ninkotechprologic: its religion13:44
ninkotechfastest growing one13:44
prologicwell it's more than religion13:44
prologicit's just pure evil13:44
ninkotech'i believe government loves me and will make us work for common good'13:44
prologicBS!13:44
ninkotechthis religion is fastest growing one13:44
prologiccommon good my ass13:44
ninkotechgovernment = god13:44
prologicwe work for the good of the back pockets of those we put in power13:44
prologicperiod13:44
ninkotechprologic: its nothing new, it started in babylon13:45
ninkotech(king = god)13:45
prologicyeah I know13:45
prologicbut you'd think about mpire after ampire collapsed13:45
prologicand war after war after war13:45
prologicwe'd learn something from all this13:45
ninkotechstill, the babylonian system sticks13:45
prologicbut no13:45
prologicno no no no no13:45
prologicwe'll never learn as a speciies13:45
ninkotechits convenient to be ruled13:46
prologicI suppose I can redst easy and eventually in peace13:46
ninkotechgoverned13:46
prologicknowing that one day we'll just blow ourselves up to kingdom come13:46
prologicand there won't be anyone left to care13:46
prologicit's only a matter of time13:46
ninkotechprologic:  few stats:13:46
ninkotechlast century, millions people killed each other (fights, murders)13:47
ninkotechtens of millions were killed by other government (wars)13:47
ninkotechhundreds of millions were killed by own governments13:47
ninkotech-> your government == most likely cause of unnatural death13:47
ninkotechnow think how they take weapons from people... they make them poor, they make them sick, desperate, twisted...13:48
ninkotechin my opinion this century there might be 10+ times more deaths13:49
prologicprobably13:49
ninkotechits planned for years, we are in middle of initial stages for that13:49
prologicand there's over 10x more people13:49
prologicso we won't even notice13:49
ninkotechwhen i will get old, they will not only kill unborns, but also kids up to few years of age, and old ones13:50
ninkotechlike me13:50
ninkotechi am 40 now13:50
ninkotechin 20 years, there will be robocops on streets of every city13:50
ninkotechsingularity will control them13:50
ninkotech... :)13:50
ninkotechi have no problem with nsa cracking my keys, i am more nervous about democide,  posthumanism, chipping, no real food13:51
prologichah13:51
prologicsame13:52
ninkotechubiquitous computing ... controlling us13:52
ninkotechthey call it 'smart' earth13:52
ninkotechit will be nightmare - like middle ages13:52
ninkotechwell.... back to topic:  when i have nodes...13:52
ninkotechand they will register each other13:53
ninkotechusing tcp for communication, it will open connection13:53
prologicanyway13:54
prologicthis is #circuits :)13:54
ninkotechthere is a need for closing/reopening that so number of connections will not grow too much13:54
prologicthis topic is too depressing :)13:54
prologicsure13:54
prologicbuild it in :)13:54
prologicsend me any pull requests that you think are improvements to circuits.node13:55
ninkotechi am now ~ cca 200 nodes..13:55
prologicyou need only know the client socket object13:55
prologicthen fire a Disconnect event at the Node Server13:55
ninkotechso i dont need to solve it now, but i will sure have this problem if this project will grow13:55
ninkotechyes, firing an event should reopen automatically...13:55
ninkotechthere could be a timeout too maybe13:56
prologicpossibly13:56
prologiclike I said before (I hope)13:56
prologiccircuits.node is fairly basic13:56
prologicso your help in making it generally more useful would be awesome13:56
ninkotechi will try to make generic tools for workers on nodes13:56
prologicshould be pretty easy to hack13:56
prologicthe hardest part is getting your head around the event <-> value synchronization that happens13:57
prologici.e: how it keep tracks of what event got sent to the remote side13:57
prologicwhat the local value object was for that event13:57
prologicthen waiting for a value to come back13:57
prologicand fulfilling the promise13:57
prologicin other words13:57
prologicif you do:13:57
ninkotechthats not hard to imagine for me, i used celery for 2 years now13:57
prologicx = self.fire(Remote(e), "foo")13:58
prologicwhere "foo" is some remote node13:58
prologicyou expect a value in x.value at somepoint13:58
ninkotechi was reading sources of most of circuits core and also node13:58
prologicgood :)13:58
ninkotechwhich made it clearer to me13:58
prologicyeah it wasn't hard to code up13:58
ninkotechbut really, explicit > implicit!13:58
prologicjust mainly keeping track of object ids13:58
ninkotechi will prolly need some hand with ftp server though13:58
ninkotechwhich i need to connect to my system as interface13:58
prologicwell13:59
prologicfrom an api point of view13:59
prologiccircuits can be used both explicitly13:59
prologicand implicitly13:59
prologicif you inhereit your components from BaseComponent13:59
prologicyou -have- to be explicit13:59
prologicand use @handler everywhere13:59
ninkotechi was thinking about using pyftpd or what was the name... but i am not sure how to mix it with circuits13:59
ninkotechhttps://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/14:00
prologicwell I've never had much success with integreating with other libraries14:00
prologicas they tend to implement their own client/server socket connections14:00
prologicand the code is too tightly coupled14:00
prologicbut perhaps there are libraries that are better written14:00
prologicthat separate out the protocol a bit better from the transport14:00
ninkotechsimple ftp server should not be hard though14:00
prologicI don't really knwo tbh14:00
ninkotechsimple implementation of ftp server: http://www.mythi.cx/python/14:02
prologicyeah14:03
prologicexacly14:03
prologicmost protocols aren't really that hard14:03
prologicbut it would be nice to just plug in some other lib14:03
ninkotechpyftpdlib might be best ... if that would be possible14:03
prologicyeah14:03
prologicI've just never tried integreating with another library in that way14:03
prologicworth looking into though14:04
prologicanyway I should get to bed14:04
ninkotechok, gn8, i will contribute my fibonacci after finishing :)14:04
ninkotechidea is use recursively random of few nodes, which could fail during computing that14:05
prologicbe a nice example to throw in examples/14:06
prologic:)14:06
ninkotechpytfpdlib might work .... "from pyftpdlib.handlers import FTPHandler"14:06
ninkotechit has handlers :)14:06
prologicahh awesome14:06
prologicas long as it can be fed some kind of stream14:06
prologicand maybe some hooks for what it parses or something14:06
prologicyou kind of wants events as a result of parsing the stream14:06
ninkotechyes...14:07
prologicso other components can react to ftp events14:07
ninkotechi need to convert also put/get operations to generating events and working with them14:07
prologic*nods*14:08
prologicgn8 :)14:08
ninkotechgn814:08
ninkotechyes,  pyftpdlib looks good, it might be very straightforward to use only the relevant part (handlers)14:11
ninkotechor the other way around, include circuits into pyftpdlib application?  :)14:14
ninkotech... i will also need to write fuse client... hopefully it will run well with circuits somehow14:21
ninkotechinteresting idea:   https://code.google.com/p/pysendfile/14:31
ninkotechwow: https://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/wiki/Tutorial -- search definitiion of               class MyHandler(FTPHandler):14:36
ninkotechthis might be easy as abc :D14:36
ninkotechprologic: this is freaking fun,  i will have to use this one, instead of doing all servers myself: https://code.google.com/p/pyfilesystem/15:14
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ConflictXGood Evening :)16:58
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ConflictX[mobileHi :)19:06
jgiorgihola20:48
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