IRC Logs for #circuits Thursday, 2013-08-22

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jgiorgithe day linux UI designers started taking pointers from microsoft UI designers the world should have exploded04:14
prologiclol04:25
prologicI think I'll always be a CLI and UNIX as an IDE kind of guy :)04:25
jgiorgiyeah i do most of my development in cli but i have a graphical environment for web browsing and general pc stuff05:04
jgiorgihad to part ways with xfce4, too much trouble tracking down bad config every other day, went back to gnome... it's windows 7's aero interface without the start menu05:04
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prologicnah I actually love xfce405:29
prologicthe latest version is great05:29
prologicand I've been using it for umm05:29
prologic8 years or so now05:29
prologicworks great :)05:29
prologicbut then again I use CRUX05:29
prologicwhere everything is compiled from source05:29
prologicand we have utter control over everything05:29
prologicso *shrugs*05:29
sz0kajgiorgi-home: same here, I only use my WM to display chrome.. and spotify..07:52
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ninkotechand ipython, vim...  but sometimes i am also using tools like ninja-ide09:17
sz0kaninkotech: wtf is ninja-ide :D?09:37
sz0kaTools I love: VIM, git, irssi, terminator & guake09:39
ninkotechsz0ka: ninja-ide.org09:39
ninkotechsz0ka: what do you use for web browsing?09:41
sz0kachrome09:41
sz0kaninkotech: looks pretty09:41
ninkotechbtw also #ninja-ide09:41
sz0kamhm don't think i need it.. i've got my vim09:41
sz0kaxD09:41
ninkotechdo you have some funny vim plugins like i do? which?09:42
sz0kaninkotech: i installed a bundle of plugins, sec09:42
sz0ka(which are yours?)09:42
ninkotechgundo, nerdtree, python-mode, vim-fugitive, vim-powerline -- those are mine favs09:43
sz0kahttp://pastebin.com/wg3fcEhV09:44
ninkotechah, interesting, i will need to take time to test them :)09:44
ninkotechhow are u using make-green?  for unittests?09:46
sz0kai never ever used it09:47
sz0kaxD09:47
sz0katbh09:47
ninkotech:)09:47
sz0kaninkotech: cool thing!09:49
sz0kaBut I haven't written any tests in python, yet.. looking for a guide which explains testing with nose & coverage and mockup objects09:49
ninkotechsz0ka: tdd is getting very important for me09:55
ninkotechit makes you feel safe, it helps you to focus on the right job09:55
sz0kaninkotech: yeah sounds good but i don't know where to start learning it ..09:56
ninkotechsz0ka: reading some book about extreme programming would be good start09:56
ninkotechor other agile methodology09:56
ninkotechhttp://agilemanifesto.org/09:56
ninkotechhttp://www.extremeprogramming.org/   might be also nice to read09:58
ninkotechas motivation for change of your style09:59
sz0kaninkotech: heh09:59
sz0katyx09:59
sz0ka*-x09:59
ninkotechi am using default unittests, as they are compatible with nose09:59
ninkotechhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development10:01
ninkotechtdd is not for every project, but if you can test, you would be rather doing it10:01
ninkotechbe sure to do unittests and functional (integration) testing... and see the difference between the two10:02
ninkotechidea is this: by starting test first, you define/limit the scope of the problem10:03
ninkotechyou write the code solving problem -> you achieved goal10:03
ninkotechdont write anything unrelated... just what is needed10:03
ninkotechthat helps to focus a lot!10:03
ninkotechand from my experience, the only way to control software project is managing focus10:04
ninkotechyou cant get faster results by bringing more teams, people, money, girls, beer...10:04
ninkotechonly by focus10:04
ninkotechand leadership10:04
ninkotechsz0ka: there should be many tutorials for doing unittests :)  start with default ones which do not require external library.... and then move to nose or pytest10:05
ninkotechif you like10:05
ninkotechsome ppl do no like default ones - they remind java style programming a lot :)10:06
ninkotechboilerplate classes etc10:06
ninkotechbut it doesnt hurt to try10:06
ninkotechtry this: http://pythontesting.net/framework/unittest/unittest-introduction/10:07
ninkotechor default python docs which are not bad: htpp://docs.python.org/2/library/unittest.html10:08
sz0kaninkotech: cool ty :D!10:09
ninkotechnp, hope that helps10:09
sz0kaBut I want money, girls 'n beer!10:09
sz0kayeah i think so :310:09
ninkotechhehe10:09
ninkotechit doesnt help achieving the goal much10:09
ninkotechonly focus does10:09
sz0katrue story10:09
sz0kaokay so I'll write tests for my impress.js compiler (which I'm actually rebuilding..) and see how it feels :D10:10
ninkotechwriting tests afterwards feels strange10:11
sz0kaninkotech: so mockup data should be done by just plain data in the testcase itself?10:11
sz0kaninkotech: it is more something in betweeen10:11
sz0ka*-e10:11
ninkotechi do not get your question prolly10:11
ninkotechyou can think of testcase as box of tests10:11
ninkotechwhich might need common 'setup method'10:12
ninkotechwhich prepares it for testing10:12
ninkotechor to separate them into larger units10:12
sz0kaninkotech: i mean, my methods are waiting for input data.. so i should provide it to them..10:13
sz0kahow do i do this the best way?10:13
sz0kai learned about testing, that mockup data helps you alot10:13
ninkotechin setUp method10:13
ninkotech?10:13
ninkotechsz0ka: whatever way you like10:13
ninkotechit should be fast, if those are unittests10:13
sz0kaoh okay :D10:14
sz0katy10:14
sz0kaI'll try10:14
sz0kabut first some food10:14
sz0ka:310:14
ninkotechmaybe you now are talking about functional tests (testign whole system)10:14
ninkotech(like user would)10:14
ninkotechunit testing is just testing simple stuff which might get broken somehow10:14
ninkotechyou would see how often you assume something to work well but tests prove this false10:15
ninkotechthis is the other way tests help to focus - they show you place of the error10:15
ninkotechsz0ka: good read: http://www.agiledata.org/essays/tdd.html10:59
ninkotechand those guys started it: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestDrivenDevelopment11:00
ninkotech(very smart guys, really)11:00
ninkotechi have a book from kent beck and its good read11:00
sz0kaninkotech: cool ty :D!11:23
sz0kalot of useful stuff as i can see11:23
sz0kaninkotech: okay imagine a method takes a string with only capital letters (just for example)... So I think I'd have to test it with calling the method with a string without and with capitals11:25
sz0kaone assert to check if the method returns / raises an error / exception and one which is just the thing we wanted to get..11:27
sz0karight?11:27
ninkotechyes11:30
ninkotechyou should test if you get expected behaviour - including exceptions11:31
sz0kayeah okay cool11:31
sz0kai understand tests, whoo!11:31
sz0kawriting a testcase is an act of... 2 minutes I guess11:33
sz0kaand you write an "Interface" for your method..11:34
ninkotechsz0ka: the same you can ask why everyone eats junk food11:34
ninkotechwhy everyone watches television11:34
ninkotechetc11:34
ninkotech(i know, not everyone)11:34
ninkotechbut most11:34
sz0kai don't watch television :D! But eat only junk food..11:34
ninkotechyes, test is definite API definition11:34
ninkotechsz0ka: if you want your kids to be able to have kids, please think what you eat11:35
sz0kaninkotech: don't wanted to use "API", is this the correct name for it?11:35
sz0kaninkotech: I don't think, that I'll ever meet a gurl which'd be a good mother ;)11:35
ninkotechah, if you do rpc calls like i do, you have api11:35
sz0kapartially11:35
ninkotechsz0ka: it can happen... but will you be good father?11:35
ninkotechits hard to find them in america...11:36
ninkotechor europe11:36
ninkotechthey are all infected by feminism a lot11:36
ninkotechwhich is deadly toxin for family11:36
sz0kaninkotech: I think I'd be a great father11:37
sz0ka:)11:37
sz0kaNo, I know it11:37
sz0kaI love children :3 worked in a Kindergarten for a month to see if it is something for me but 30 children are too loud :P11:37
sz0kaninkotech: yeah.. and the women I get are.. more the bitches than the mums, ya kno?11:38
sz0kaI've got the....... luck to be a freak magnet11:38
ninkotechsz0ka: lol. its better to be hanged well than to be married wrongly11:40
ninkotechyou need to use your ears, not eyes to choose one...11:41
sz0kaninkotech: so my solution for this is: not getting married :D11:41
sz0kaninkotech: i give a fuck about my ears!11:41
sz0kaxD11:41
ninkotechand really, check if you can like her mother...11:42
sz0ka*+don't11:42
sz0kaninkotech: interesting point11:42
sz0kabut i always liked their mums, friendly, open-minded.. they were completly the inverse thingh11:42
sz0ka*-h11:42
sz0kabut i think i'll better be alone for now11:43
sz0ka('cuz I'm to shy to speak to women I'd like to know more)11:43
sz0ka*too11:43
sz0kaand I'm not that interesting if you don't like computers.. and most women don't care11:44
sz0kaninkotech: erm dude? why does coverage also show me, the code coverage of json.decoder, json.encoder etc. and how do i get rid of this?14:31
ninkotechi dont use nose wiht coverage everyday :) sorry14:33
sz0kaninkotech: found it out14:34
sz0kanosetests --with-coverage --cover-package=<your-package-here>14:34
sz0kaworks great14:34
ninkotechsz0ka: btw the primary role of a man (or human) is to create and keep things in order.   ORDO ab CHAO, if you will, but without that freemasonic evilness -- good one.14:37
ninkotechdont be shy if you do the right thing... just do it14:38
ninkotechsz0ka: but right, its not good trying to talk to them about new features in IPXE14:40
sz0kaORDO ab CHAO?15:07
jgiorgi-homeprologic, might have to try compiling xfce4 from source, the debian package likes to destroy config and mess stuff up every so often15:07
sz0kajgiorgi-home: this is why I've got all my configs in a git15:08
sz0kaso i can look for what i can do after it is too late ;D15:08
sz0kaninkotech: erm do you know how i get my MakeGreen foo working?15:09
sz0kaYou named it, now i want to use it (else it just uses a few bytes on my hard disc - without benefit..)15:10
ninkotechprologic, jgiorgi-home : my debian packages are ok :)15:39
ninkotechsz0ka: magegreen - not yet.. dint have time to check15:40
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jgiorgi-workwell now i know which one is real, just cant ghost the other17:05
jgiorgi-workprologic: how's our windows support, i'm being asked to port one of my apps :(17:05
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prologicjgiorgi-work: our windows support should be fine23:23
prologicmost things work23:23
prologicand unit tests do pass23:23
jgiorgi-workfair enough23:30
jgiorgi-workit's not high on my priorities list but i figured it shouldnt be hard23:31
jgiorgi-worktheres some unix socket stuff i'll have to implement another way23:31
prologicjust replace it with tcp sockets23:36
prologicUNIXSocket isn't available on Windows23:36
prologicand in fact you cannot import it23:36
prologicit gets deleted from the namespace on WIndows23:36

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