IRC Logs for #circuits Tuesday, 2014-04-01

prologicoh well there we go00:08
prologicthey don’t sound terribly convinced though00:08
prologicI think they have bigger problems? :)00:08
c45ythey get distracted a lot00:10
c45ythey have basically implemented chunks of circuits on top of twisted00:10
c45yI cant think of a more perfect fit for circuits00:10
c45ythey have plugins00:10
c45ythey tail a socket and fire defined events00:10
c45ymany plugins can listen to the same event, and cancel it etc00:11
prologicsounds like circuits to me00:12
prologicwith a crappy core :)00:12
prologicand circuits already has plugins too00:12
c45ypretty much00:12
c45yit is why I was like why don't you just use circuits00:13
c45ybut they had never heard of it00:13
c45yand I am a poor person to explain it to them00:13
prologicno you did a great job I think00:14
prologicI just helped cemet the idea I think00:14
prologichope :)00:14
c45ythey pretty much stopped developing mark2 because it was a pain to maintain00:14
c45yhopefully circuits would make it a lot easier00:14
Worksterit should00:15
prologicI think so00:16
prologicdefinately should make things a lot easier to maintain00:16
prologicif they adopt the component approach00:16
c45ythey are smart programmers, I think they will actually like it00:18
prologicwell one can hope :)00:20
prologicmaybe they might even contribute some goodies to circuits too00:20
prologicthat would be my great hope :)00:20
c45ythat reminds me00:34
c45yI'm planning to grab lunch today from somewhere00:34
prologichappy to join you00:36
c45yI'm thinking about 11:10 or so at rossa?00:38
prologicokie dokie00:38
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prologicehlo edk00:57
prologicc45y: ping me when you’re about to leave for lunch@Rossa01:03
c45ysure thing, just finishing this off01:04
c45ythat the nova stuff?01:04
prologicvisualation tool01:06
prologicneed to add sld/style support to my Map API01:06
prologicand I’m using mapserver01:07
prologicand it just happens to be one of those things that is well done01:07
prologicrock solid, etc01:07
prologicbut so poorly documented01:07
prologicor at least you have to be half a GIS export to know what you’re doing01:07
prologicwhich sadly I am :/01:07
prologic2 years of GIS related work now01:07
prologicanyway lunch?01:07
c45yumm 2 sec01:08
c45yok, I'll see you up there01:09
c45yhave questions on web logger too01:09
c45yso bring your thinking cap01:10
c45yhey prologic stop cutting in01:58
c45yback of the line is over there01:58
prologicthat was quite funny actually02:03
prologicthanks for piping in, I was a little slow in my response02:03
prologicnext time I’ll wear my “staff badge” :)02:04
c45yThe stupid thing was the guy was right behind me when I jumped out of the queue to grab you02:12
prologicyeah I got the distinct impression he was just the type of guy that liked to show off his prowness and mascilinity02:15
prologicoh look at me! I’m telling this random strnager off! I have huge muscles!02:15
c45yheh he backed down quickly enough02:15
c45yfunny how people act when you tell them someone is blind02:16
c45ythanks for playing the blind guy btw02:16
prologicno problems :)02:16
prologicany time :)02:16
prologicexcept as an excuse to checkout chick’s boobs02:16
prologicmy wife won’t like that :)02:17
prologicyou’re umm 5 years too late :)02:17
prologicofc my mates just joked about doing that, but never did lol02:17
prologicI want to openly discuss something here02:27
prologicthat’s bugged a lot of us circuits users and developers for a while02:28
prologicnamespace packging in python sucks ass02:28
prologicand whilst we can use/migrate to this with circuits02:28
prologicwe loose a lot of conveneicne and niceness02:28
prologicso we just simply won't02:28
prologicthe alternative is to support plugins a lot better/more02:28
prologicand to that end I think we should do this:02:28
prologiccreate a setuptools entrypoint/namespace called circuits.ux02:28
prologici.e: circuits user extensions02:28
prologicala Sencha’s ExtJS and other lirbaries/frameworks02:29
prologicand simply improve the circuits.core.loader (pulgin loader/manager)02:29
prologicand then add a few example plugins to examples/02:29
prologicand we should be golden02:29
prologicyeah I know02:30
prologicit’s one of those things that02:30
prologic*meh* who cares02:30
prologiceven I don’t really to some extent02:30
prologicbecause it’s pretty easy to do already02:30
c45ymost of those should end up in net.protocols or other parts02:30
c45ywhat exactly would you extend circuits to do?02:31
prologicbut I think/believe we just want to provide a nicer plugin experience for new users02:31
prologicnew protocols02:31
c45ynew component is quite easy to import and register02:31
prologicnew integration compoents02:31
prologicalternative implementations of circuits.web or extra functionality (@spaceone)02:31
prologicthat’s why I said it can pretty much be done right now realyl easily02:32
prologicit would simply just formalize it a bit more02:32
prologicwith a setuptools circuits.ux namespace02:32
prologicso we’d write some convention for plugin authors to follow02:32
prologicso end-users would: pip install circuits.ux.rabbitmq02:32
prologicfor example02:32
prologicfrom circuits.ux.rabbitmq import RabbitMQ02:32
prologicthis is not a technical thing - it can already be done02:33
prologicjust a convention, documetnation, setuptools namespace and better circuits.core.loader functionality to support setuptools based entrypoints/plugins02:33
c45ysounds good to me02:36
prologicyeah sounds okay to me too02:36
prologicI should write it up as an issue02:36
prologicI wonder if we have time to do this for 3.002:36
prologicI mean circuits.core.loader is already there02:36
prologicjust needs to grow setuptools entrypoints support02:36
prologicthen we just need docs, examples and the circuits.ux entrypoint/namespace setup by default when you install circuits02:37
prologicdoesn’t sound all that hard tbh02:37
prologicedk: if you have any q’s feel free to ask!02:38
prologicwe have lots of tests, examples and docs (more coming all the time) but it is one of the hardest things about any project :)02:38
prologicif only docs were easier to write and concepts easier to articulaate to others that are new to something :)02:39
prologicnow there’s a project idea02:39
c45ymy biggest problem with the docs is that you know circuits and I do not :P02:39
prologicyes well that’s very true02:40
prologicand to that end I have encourged others to write docs02:40
prologicand a few developers past and current do and have02:40
prologicwhich is nice02:40
prologicbecause you get that different perspective02:40
prologicturns out the Worker component in circuits is rather nicerish to use04:21
prologicI’ve just added support to ccav for multiprocess based workers to process the OWS (MapServer) requests04:21
prologicso they don’t tie up the app and handle Map API requests concurrently04:22
prologiccombination of Worker() task() event and .call() there :)04:22
koobsprologic: hehe07:44
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edkprologic: writing docs is a bit of a time sink, it's always a pain to explain to other people the model of a thing you have in your head. i inevitably have to explain things to people at work in person, no matter how many pages of .rst i wrote them beforehand08:21
edkcircuits' docs actually look better than most, i think :)08:26
prologicI appreciate the compliment08:43
prologicwe try not to let the docs go stagnent if we can help it08:43
prologicbut yeah I agree wholeheartedly08:44
prologicno matter how many bloody .rst files you write or emails or whatever08:44
prologicyou just end up explaining things all over again time and time again08:44
Romsterlike me i'm forever finding new issues -_-11:09
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prologicwoot woot12:21
prologicgot my Arduino Uno starter kits totday12:21
prologicwith loads of goodies12:21
prologicand just got it working with the trivla lblink sketch12:21
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prologicmorn’n all22:17
Worksterif they arn't too hard to program i could use them for some projects myself later on22:19
Worksternever liked the idea of writing in C or ASM22:19
Worksteri bearly know it and feels like i have to reinvent the wheel22:19
Worksterfor the most trivial of tasks22:20
prologicIn this case you have to22:32
prologicand it’s not reinventing the wheel22:33
prologicThe thing is, C/ASM is actually far more reusable in terms of code reuse than many higher level language22:33
prologicC is an imperative language22:33
prologicbut you can write functions22:33
prologicSo there are lots of Arduino libraries to do all sorts of things22:33
prologicIncluding but not limited to Ethetnet, Wifi, full TCP/IP stacks22:34
prologicetc etc22:34
prologicPlus you don’t want to be writing in Python on such a small embedded board22:34
prologicthere just isn’t enough resources22:34
prologic8Mhz Atmel AVR usually22:34
prologicwith 8KB Flash22:34
prologicand 4KB RAM22:34
spaceone4kb ram?22:37
prologicNo, there is no OS22:40
prologiconly a very minimal boot loader22:40
prologicyou _have_ to write C/Assembly22:40
prologicfor the Atmega328 CPU in this case for the Arduino Uno22:40
c45yprologic: compile bytecode to C22:45
c45ywrite python22:45
spaceonec45y: hmm, don't work22:46
c45yI guess python isn't too nice with stack thrashing22:46
c45yyou're right22:46
prologicyes no, that won’t work23:26
prologicPython is too high level23:27
prologicyou’d need an accompyining runtime23:27
prologicwhich you _could_ in theory do23:27
prologicYou basically need to design and implement a stack machine for Arduino23:27
prologicthen port Python bytecode to it23:27

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