IRC Logs for #crux-devel Tuesday, 2006-12-19

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jaegerhrmm... my problem with hald crashing persisted through a reinstall08:07
pitillojaeger, is there a irc log with the entire explanation (to don't repeat again)?  I'm using it at work's laptop and runs well. I can take a look when I'd arrive at work.08:13
jaegerI don't think I mentioned it in here or in #crux, actually08:17
jaegerbut the problem is that any time removable media is inserted, hald crahes08:17
* jaeger sighs08:17
jaegerand I can't type08:17
jaegeralso, sometimes hald will crash if it's simply left alone. I don't know what event causes it but it'll happen eventually, every time08:18
prologicwhat is hald ?08:18
prologicah k08:19
jaegerit's used for various things, in this case to automount media in gnome with gnome-volume-manager and gnome-mount08:19
jaegerpitillo: this only happens to me on *one* of my machines, I cannot duplicate it anywhere else08:19
* Romster slaps prologic even i knew what hal does, but yeah thats a odd one jaeger 08:27
Romsterstale config files for hal?08:28
Romsteror hal may have linked itself with another package maybe on that one pc.08:28
jaegerfresh install, same results08:29
Romstersame kernel on both pc's08:29
jaegernot exactly, I don't have 2 identical machines to test, so the kernel configs are slightly different08:30
Romsterso jsut device drivers are diferent but same version?08:30
Romsternothing marked as expermental i hope.08:31
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jaegernot that I recall08:31
j^2hey all08:32
jaegerthe most annoying part of this is that it USED to work fine and I don't know what changed08:32
prologicI don't use hal :)08:32
jaegerheyo, j^208:32
Romsterhrmm both pcs got the same toolchains glibc, gcc versions.. and same flags to compile them.08:32
jaegerthey did until today... now I've got debug and nostrip flags in08:32
Romsterother than that, *shrugs*08:32
j^2how you doing jaeger et al.?08:33
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jaegernot too badly, you?08:34
j^2leaving for england on friday, counting down the days08:34
pitillo(tought that may be you explained the problem) Interesting. I can try it here with a usb stick, but if you say that is only with one computer is strange. I suppose that you readed the logs and find nothing interesting.08:37
pitillotested and working fine here.08:51
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clbUpdate from opt: 19 Dec 15:16 - glib: updated to version 2.12.5 || 19 Dec 15:14 - dbus: updated to version 1.0.209:39
jaegerj^2: I went ahead and moved the ts2 server so you can disregard my warning about it being down10:24
jaegeryou might have to wait a day or 2 for DNS to propagate, though10:24
j^2oh sweet thanks again10:30
jaegerit had been up 179 days until today10:36
clbUpdate from opt: 19 Dec 16:55 - prt-utils: updated to 0.9.111:09
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juehi cptn13:00
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tilmanhi sip13:08
cptnhi sip13:09
juehi sip13:10
siphi @all :-)13:10
tilmanaon, Viper_: ping?13:10
sip;a=commit;h=c5e3ac81a4e0ea1129f1a65144649b89345977b9 -> funniest commit comment so far13:10
tilmanshould we begin then?13:12
sipI think so13:12
jaegersip: :)13:14
sipcptn, do you plan to continue using CRUX?13:14
cptnlet's put it like this, I have no plans to switch at this point in time13:15
cptnand I have no MacBook Pro yet13:15
cptn(and don't plan to get one)13:16
sipdude, you're getting into design/art? :)13:16
cptnI prefer "full time slim themer"13:17
cptnwhy do you ask?13:17
sipmainly for the ports.13:17
sipI figure if you continue to use crux you may as well keep them in opt/contrib13:18
cptnah; well I'd rather not. I can keep some of the more exotic stuff in my private repo13:19
cptnbut don't plan to rejoin contrib at this point in time13:19
sipany proposal about prt-get / httpup maintainance?13:20
tilman"crux system team" ...13:20
siptilman, that's your answer for everything :-P13:21
tilmanis it?13:22
tilmanit's the obvious choice in this case anyway, i think?13:22
tilmansince the crux system team will be upstream for httpup and prt-get now ;)13:23
cptnit probably is, however to this point I don't think we've talked about the system team and who will be part of it13:23
cptnexcept for me being the "coach"13:23
siphmm..headless system team13:23
tilmani nominate sip for the new head13:24
sipno way, I'm the infra-guy13:24
tilmanthe infrasystem hydra!13:24
sipwhatever this means ;)13:24
cptnwhat I could imagine to do is do bug fixing for the two13:25
cptnso you guys don't have to worry that it breaks horribly in the next couple of weeks13:25
cptnthe y2k7 problems :-)13:25
cptnhowever I feel as long that I'm in charge of these projects, I won't be able to "let go"13:26
tilmandidn't we also agree that the "system team" == "core maintainers"? ;D13:26
cptnI guess this was one of the ideas discussed13:26
sipI wonder if it's better to evolve the team thing into a simpler task-based structure13:27
tilmancptn: i think we'll be able to do maintenance on httpup and prt-get ourselves. + it's not that they are bug ridden ;D13:28
cptnI'd say unless we (you) bring in more people, the three team idea is probably flawed13:28
jaegerprobably so13:30
cptnalthough I have to admit the infra team seems like a very good idea13:31
cptnsince many issues there are quite isolated13:31
sipthat would be the infrastructure maintainer13:31
sipI'll try to put together a wiki page with known and potential tasks, filling the already covered ones13:33
siptilman, rearding pkgutils, any mid-term plan?13:34
Viper_btw how many people are active now?13:36
sipok, post-2.3 topic then13:36
sipViper_, 4 core, 2-3 opt13:38
cptnmmmh, any news from tilln?13:38
cptnerr, tillb13:38
jaegerhaven't seen or heard from him in a while13:38
cptnI though he planned to return in october or something13:38
Viper_hmm seems to be hard times in the future :)13:39
cptnah, october + "some weeks"13:39
cptnalthough he's been gone for quite some time13:40
cptnhe'll probably need some time to get started again13:40
sipjust to recap,
sipplease add remaining issues with "Due to" field set to 2.313:43
juethe iproute2 etc. thing seems the most important for me13:47
jueat least we should decide something wrt13:47
cptnjaeger already provided ports for it13:47
cptnso it should be a very simple transition13:47
jaegerhaven't had any trouble so far using iproute213:48
jueok, so we should move them to core13:48
jaeger <-- an example net script, there's some concern that it's too oblique for normal use13:49
jaegerpersonally I don't agree, considering it's more or less a one-time config13:49
cptnlooks fine to me13:50
cptnI remember there was a possibility to combine some commands13:50
cptnbut it doesn't make it more readable13:50
jaegerany user using dhcp isn't particularly affected by it, anyway13:51
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siplooks ok to me13:51
sipjaeger can you take care of the necessary adjustements in the 2.3 branch?13:52
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sipeither that or some handbook hacking if you prefer13:53
jaegermove net-tools out of core, put iproute2 in core?13:53
jaegerupdate handbook to match?13:53
cptnsounds good13:53
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sipdoes iproute have netstatm hostname?13:55
cptndoesn't look like it13:55
cptnnet-tools might have to stay in core13:56
tilmansip: re. xorg, i think i prefer creating the fonts files manually after installation13:58
tilmansip: any other solution/workaround would be pretty hackish13:58
tilmani'd rather not add a lot of magic to :/13:58
sipI agree, we can just add a note/paragraph to the handbook13:59
tilmanno sign of 7.2 final btw14:00
tilmanrumour has it the release manager is busy14:00
jaegerso I need to checkout opt 2.3, remove iproute2, checkout core 2.3, and import it, right?14:02
sipgit permitting14:02
jaegershould it not? :)14:02
tilmanunless you're wearing your git-hates-me hat, yes it should14:03
jaegershould move /etc/rc.d/net from net-tools to iproute2 as well, I suppose14:04
cptnthat will have a nasty side effect:14:04
cptnuser's 'net' files will be removed14:04
cptni.e. if they update to 2.3, their network settings will be gone14:05
jaegersomething setup-helper can handle?14:05
jaegerperhaps the net script would be better housed in filesystem or something14:05
sipwell, it made sense in net-tools14:06
cptnsetup-handler can't currently move file ownerships to other ports14:06
jaegerit could back up the file, though, and restore it after14:06
jaegerbit more complicated, though14:06
sipcan't we just add iproute2 to core since we have to keep net-tools anyway?14:07
cptnsip: well, that's slightly inconsistent since the new 'net' template will use iproute2 commands14:07
jaegerperhaps for now we just add it and not force its use14:07
sipI mean, people needing iproute2 advanced features would have to change /etc/rc.d/net in any case14:07
jaegerI could include my template in the iproute2 port but not in /etc/rc.d/net14:08
sip(I mean keeping the current template)14:08
jaegerthough it would be a junk file at that point14:08
juewhat about a /etc/rc.d/net2 script?14:08
jueso it's easy for the user to change14:09
jaegerI don't really have a preference14:10
cptnmy preference would be the following:14:11
cptnremove net to net.orig14:11
cptnremove it from net-tools14:11
cptninstall new template with iproute214:11
cptnand take a note in the user manual14:11
cptnthe user can then easily go back to his original config14:11
cptnor convert it to iproute2 (recommended)14:11
cptnworst case is that is breaks the 'net' service temporarily14:12
cptn"remove net to net.orig" should be "move net to net.orig using setup-helper"14:13
jaegersounds reasonable to me14:14
jueyep, agree14:14
sipdoes simply not overwriting it sounds so bad?14:14
cptnsip: well, in that case you'd get a non-working 'net' if you only install net-tools14:15
cptn(if you use the commands outlined in there)14:15
jaegertilman, can I bug you with a git question in query?14:15
cptnor if you omit net-tools, you don't get 'net'14:15
siphmm, I'm lost14:16
jaegerI think sip is advocating leaving it entirely up to the user to switch to iproute214:16
jaegerand cptn is making iproute2 the default but saving the user's net-tools config14:16
cptnyes :-)14:17
sipthe interpreter has spoken :)14:17
jaegerI still don't have a preference :)14:17
tilmanjaeger: sure14:17
jaegersip's way would likely result in less questions in #crux14:17
tilmani like cptn's suggestion better14:17
cptnwell, since both ifconfig and ip could be used, it would proably make sense to have in none of the two14:18
sipwe can have iproute template by default, but keep the old file without cluttering with net.orig14:18
cptnto have IT in none of the two (it being 'net')14:18
sipnew setups would get the new teplate upgrades will continue to work wit ifconfig & friends14:18
cptnwell, in the end it doesn't matter a lot :-)14:21
cptnso I guess if the handbook suggest using 'ip', and iproute2 is in core, it's just a minor thing14:22
cptnand since removing core ports isn't recommended anyway, the case where one of the two is missing is just a theoretical one14:23
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sipok, I'll leave14:24
jaegerso what should I do with regards to 2.3 core/iproute2? go ahead and install net.iproute as ... ?14:24
jueI'd go with cptn's suggestion14:25
sipfine for me too, the important thing is that the switch is documented14:26
jueyep, that's right, hopefully jaeger is in the mood to update the handbook as well ;-)14:28
jaegerdo we have a 2.3 handbook branch?14:29
jaegerand which suggestion are we talking about? making iproute2's net script /etc/rc.d/net or just installing both ports and making the suggestion in the handbook?14:29
jaeger(sorry for the distacted manner, I'm doing an upgrade today at work)14:29
tilmangit branch -l :P14:29
tilmanyes, we do14:29
tilmanit's in system.git14:30
jueerr, in the wiki14:30
tilmanof course :P14:30
juejaeger: Handbook2-3-Configuration14:32
juejaeger: and the first one14:33
sipjaeger, I can take care of the iso stuff once the ports are in place if you prefer14:35
jaegersip: aye, I would, I'm confused as hell working on both of these at once, to be honest14:35
sipmakes sense since I've already bootstrapped it a couple of times14:36
tilmanwhat about an RC?14:36
jaegerso I'm moving /etc/rc.d/net to /etc/rc.d/net.orig in net-tools and installing net.iproute2 as /etc/rc.d/net in iproute2, right?14:36
siptilman, without xorg 7.2?14:36
tilmansure, why not14:36
tilman7.2 might take at least another week14:37
tilmanthen there's the holidays14:37
tilmanor do you think it's pointless?14:37
sipjaeger, I think the .orig file will be created by the setup helper14:37
jaegersip: remove net from net-tools, then?14:37
tilmanoooh :D14:37
tilmanViper_: what do we with han's account no?14:38
sipjaeger, I think so14:38
jaegersip: ok14:38
tilmanViper_: he still didn't reply to your mail i assume?14:38
siptilman, if it's useful I can make another bootstrap tonight14:38
tilmanwould be cool14:38
sipthe one I have is from a couple of weeks ago14:38
Viper_tilman: no i din't reply but i got another message from him14:39
Viper_not i14:39
Viper_he said that there are no outstanding bugs14:39
Viper_i told him that there are some14:39
Viper_he hasn't answered to that mail yet14:40
tilmani'd say, cut his access then14:40
tilmanif he agrees that there ARE bugs we can still give it back to him14:41
Viper_well we don't know if he agrees14:41
Viper_he seems to think that there are none14:41
aonoh, pong14:41
tilmanaccepting him not caring about our beloved rules isn't really an option imo14:41
Viper_you're right14:42
Viper_so my proposal14:42
Viper_sent him another mail and warn him of restricting his access to contrib if he doesn't look at the bugs and fits the rules14:42
Viper_deadline one week14:42
tilmani thought that's what you did last time14:43
Viper_i just informed him14:43
Viper_no deadline and no warning14:43
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tilman"make it so" then :D14:43
Viper_ok :)14:43
Viper_will do it14:43
Viper_hmm his bugs are still not closed or fixed14:45
Viper_really strange :)14:45
tilmanand i doubt he just missed them14:45
Viper_yeah i doubt that too14:46
Viper_i've sent him direct links to his bugs14:46
aonperhaps he has the mail address ignored14:47
aonwell, he'll notice when the account stops working14:47
sipwhat about port headers?14:48
treachaon: that will probably not fix the problems. Just get them rendered moot.14:48
tilmansip: the ones in core?14:48
jaegerok, do those 2.3 commits look ok?14:49
tilmani need to read your suggestion again14:49
jaegerI think git and I were able to get along this time14:49
sipbtw, the contrib repo export was stuck for some reason14:50
juejaeger: looks fine, thanks14:50
sipI had to remove the exported dir and relaunch the export script14:51
jaegerok, good14:51
tilmansip: btw, did you find out what caused the hiccups with commits that contained german umlauts?14:52
sipyes mailx was unfriendly with locales14:52
tilmanah :)14:52
tilmansip: i forgot. treach made a good point re. the RC14:54
tilmanor rather, seconded your worries (i think)14:54
tilmansince the x upgrade is non-trivial, we shouldn't call a current test build an "RC"14:54
tilmanbetter call it "random test build"14:54
treachno X -> not feature complete. :)14:55
tilmanatm it contains 7.1 + updates14:55
cptncall it "community edition"14:55
sipbtw, do you think it's not time yet to branch 2.3 on xorg?14:55
cptnthere will be a deluxe one late on14:55
tilman"premium home edition"14:56
tilmandid you guys here about the 7 (or so) different versions of vista? :D14:56
treachtilman: sip's suggestion was worded with "without".14:56
* treach goes back to his corner14:56
tilmantreach: "without xorg 7.2" -- i interpreted that as "with xorg 7.1"14:56
treachyeah, I was trying to indicate why I misunderstood. sry.14:57
tilmanooh, ok14:57
juehmm, are we waiting definitely for 7.2? If yes we shouldn't call it rc, better pre or something like that15:02
Viper_I've just sent the mail to han15:02
Viper_hmm is it ok if i go now? I've still some stuff to do15:02
tilmani think so15:02
tilmanjue: i think we should definitely wait for 7.215:03
sipbye Viper_15:03
Viper_bye :)15:03
tilmandistrowatch and osnews will love us for shipping with it! ;))15:03
sipso much for a modular Xorg o_O15:03
tilmanthe advantage mostly shows for drivers imo15:04
* tilman slaps sip around anyway15:04
tilmani plan to remove a few ports from xorg for 7.215:05
tilmanand since that's a minor annoyance, i'd rather not do it post-2.315:05
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jueseems that the 'Normalize port headers' issue isn't that trivial to solve, to be honest I have not clear opinion on that till now15:14
sip_true, but I'd hate it to ship another version without some cleaning15:15
jueyep, that's right15:16
juebasically I like the "team effort" idea, that's the way it's working right now15:18
tilmani'm okay with that, too15:18
juewithout greater problems as far I can see15:18
jueexcept for the grub confusion ;-)15:19
* jue hides15:19
jaegerthere's more grub confusion?15:21
jueno, it's all fine now15:21
sip_nah, just some nomadic past for the port15:22
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juemaybe we can find a way to honor Per in the ports without listing him as the maintainer/packager ?15:25
juemaybe a copyright notice like ... Per Liden and the CRUX system team ?15:26
sip_well, to some extent he was part of the core team back at the time15:26
cptnokay guys, I gotta go15:29
sip_bye cptn take care and come back soon15:31
cptnweil thanks15:31
cptnthanks :-)15:31
treachhals- und beinbruch, cptn. ;)15:32
cptnthanks treach15:32
cptnI'll try to make it to the next couple of meetings15:33
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jaegersorry I'm so quiet, guys, I'm upgrading the webct vista server... but I'm trying to glance at this when I can15:34
sip_what about iana-etc?15:36
juesip, a final note to the other point15:39
jaegerI personally don't have a problem with it. I know some concern about its bloat was raised but I don't share that15:39
jueI'd second your proposal but would omit Per's email15:40
tilmanjaeger: me neither15:40
jueisn't it a performance issue?15:40
sip_the difference seems noticable here:
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sip_gotta go. see you16:09
juebye sip16:09
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juenight all16:15
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Romsterwhats this threat with hans ports and he managed to remove soem ports i was maintaining..22:26
jaegersounds like more hysterics and drama22:42
Romsteri'm thinking of taking over what i use and readding them to contrib..22:50
Romsternot sure if thats gonna be stiring up a hornets nest though22:50
* jaeger shrugs22:50
jaegercan always shuffle shit around again later, as far as I see it22:51
Romsterdon't even know the reasons, for the removal and threats? other than he wouldn't change the email address format.22:51
Romsteri guess so.22:51
jaegerI guess the general consensus is that he wasn't cooperating enough, dunno for sure. I was upgrading our production vista server at work most of the day22:52
Romsteroh and any chance of commiting ports to contrib 2.3? thats setup for xorg.22:52
Romsteryeah i read that, everything went ok with the upgrade, i know sometimes, there can be a few snags22:53
jaegerseems to have gone ok22:53
Romsterso far :)22:59

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