IRC Logs for #crux-devel Tuesday, 2007-02-20

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Viper_has anybody here replaced fetchmail by another programme?05:04
prologicfetchmail works great :)05:04
Viper_just heard of some fetchmail security problems :)05:06
Viper_but i don't like getmail being a python application05:06
prologicahh well I'm sure upstream will fix them ?05:06
Viper_yeah of course05:06
prologicgetmail works fine actualy :)05:06
prologicnevermind it's a python app05:06
prologicI have used it myself05:06
Viper_but it's design seems not be the best05:07
Viper_yeah is it fast?05:07
Viper_as fast as fetchmail?05:07
aonthere's also maildrop05:08
aoni use fetchmail, though05:08
aonhm no05:08
aonthat seems to replace procmail05:08
prologicyeah it's as fast as fetchmail05:08
Viper_aon: yeah seems more to replace procmail :)05:09
prologicyou shouldn't be concenred about speed with fetching mail though :)05:09
Viper_oh cool maybe i should have a look at it05:09
prologichmm I'm a liking xfce4 atm05:09
prologicfinally have decied to _really_ use it for once05:09
Viper_yeah well actual you're right :)05:10
Viper_xfce? i have also used it for a while05:10
aonme neither, but it was rather pleasant when i used it05:11
aoni've been stuck to openbox and ratpoison for some time now :)05:11
Viper_yeah same here.. switched to dwm05:11
prologicI was using windowmaker05:12
prologichad been for years :)05:12
Viper_wow.. tried windowmaker several times but i still don't like it05:12
Viper_prologic: why have you switched back to fetchmail and not using getmail anymore?05:14
prologiclazy :)05:14
Viper_ah ok :)05:15
prologicyou try maintaining 9 crux machines :)05:17
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j^2hey all08:47
j^2over slept today :(08:47
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aonhi j^210:20
* j^2 waves at aon10:21
* aon came back from driving school :)10:22
aondamn 2-phase drivers license10:22
tilmanthought you were driving your lada for a good while now o_O10:22
j^ they say...15 you can get a permt, then 16 you drive10:22
aontilman: but before we get the permanent card we have a few lessons10:23
aonafter ½-~2 years of driving10:23
aonit's just a waste of money, really...10:24
aonj^2: yeah, we can drive mopeds & tractors when 15 :)10:24
aonand mopedcars..10:24
aon125cc motorcycles when 1610:24
aonalthough i don't have that license10:25
aonfunny, though, i haven't driven a tractor once since i got my license :)10:25
aonbut a lot before that10:25
aoni should fix my clutch so it wouldn't take ten minutes every time i drive someone else's car to learn that it doesn't need to be lifted back :)10:28
j^2it's been a bad day at work today10:30
j^2i think it's time i go postal10:31
aontilman: what "eeeh"?10:31
tilmanyou have to "lift back" your clutch?10:31
tilmani either misunderstand that, or your lada sucks big time10:32
aonthe main clutch cylinder started leaking, so i fixed the gadgets10:33
aonbut it's a bit too stiff now10:33
aonesp. during cold weather :)10:33
aoni think i'll just reinforce the spring with some bicycle inner tubing or sth :)10:33
aonit's way too cold for any real repairs10:34
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tilmanthe meeting's in 30 minutes, right?12:32
Viper_yes think so12:33
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* tilman waves12:40
Viper_hmm it's still not possible to download fetchmail's new version12:41 d/l servers are having a lot of problems lately12:43
sipas well as their ftp. I had to wait a few days before updating the slim home page12:43
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sip appears to work12:45
Viper_oh yeah you're right12:46
Viper_thanks for the link12:46
* Viper_ updated fetchmail :)12:47
sipnp. it's the official one anyway ;)12:47
Viper_hmm the port seems to be using download2.berlios.de12:47
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Viper_Tue Feb 20 20:00:30 CET 200713:00
siphi jue13:00
tilmanhi jue13:00
tillbhello jue13:02
tilmanaon, jaeger: ping?13:02
aonah yes13:02
sipok, shall we start?13:07
Viper_yes :)13:07
tilmanyeah, not sure whether jaeger planned to attend13:07
sipquick, somebody pop a bag to wake him up :)13:08
sipI thought of having a quick look at all the bugs currently in the bugtracker13:09
sipso we can get rid of them or assign13:09
Viper_good idea13:09
sipeverybody please go to and order by id13:10
sipwe could select just the 2.3 tagged ones, but I feel there's still something to assign to 2.313:10
tilmanugh, 15813:10
sip168: I screwed things up, sorry. will repair.13:11
Viper_hmm i would say we should check all.. having very old bugs doesn't make sense to me13:11
sipjue, any news for 160?13:12
jue160: no, but never heard of any problems so, I'd close it13:13
sipheh. that was fast :)13:13
tilmansip: do you remember what we agreed upon for the x installation in 2.3? ;D13:14
tilmansip: did we want to have users install it themselves and not put it on the iso? or did we only want to have them install the fonts? %)13:15
sipthe fonts!13:15
sipnice try, though13:15
tillbi'd like to pick up the docu-related things: 134, 135, 15113:16
tilmansip: i'll adjust the iso makefile to the package changes (some deletes, some new ones)13:16
siptillb, great13:16
siptilman, good. I suppose we need to recreate/edit the deps file as well13:16
jaegerheyo, all, just got back to work13:17
siphey jaeger.13:18
sipany comment on 154?13:19
Viper_i would say that we should not touch glibc13:19
jaegerpersonally I think it might be nice to use the updated tools... I don't see any immediate problems from removing those files from core (but then I don't use quotas, just sounds like nice features)13:21
sipso you advocate adding quota-tools to core/opt?13:21
jaegerwhy not? seems useful13:22
sipfine for me, as long as there's a maintainer ;)13:23
jaegerthere's the rub, hehe13:23
jaegerI don't even use quotas13:23
jaegerwell, perhaps we ought not to mess with it until a maintainer wants it13:24
siptillb, do you have a flyspray account?13:25
Viper_well can we safely remove theses files mentioned in 154?13:26
tilmansip: did you deliberately add libxslt to the x dependencies even though it's a built-time only dep?13:27
jaegerhonestly don't know. I would assume they're not missed until you want quota support but I've no experience there13:27
siptilman, yes13:27
Viper_perhaps we can ask mike_k for further details on this task13:27
Viper_he seems to be more familiar with it13:28
sipgood idea.13:28
jueI wouldn't touch the ports until we have a maintainer for quota-tools13:29
jaegerthe only reason it might be annoying is that post-release it'd require 3 port updates to fix13:29
sipnotably glibc13:30
jaegeron the other hand, I'd hate to just jump ahead with it without having a dedicated maintainer13:30
jueyep, that's right13:30
sipwell, it's something we can demand to next glibc update13:31
* j^2 waves...again13:31
Viper_sip: yeah.. we need some more information on this topic13:31
jaegerI'm fine with waiting on that one13:31
Viper_perhaps we can look at other distributions whether they removed these files or not13:31
jaegeralso a good idea13:32
sipI just checkd debian but they have a pre-quota era setup :o)13:32
sipso we're at 152. If dynamic libperl works I think I'll change the port to avoid the static lib13:33
jaegergentoo's lets man-pages provide the quotactl page13:34
jaegerbut that's all I see13:34
Viper_I've set 154 to 'requires testing'13:34
juesip: yes, agreed13:35
jaegersip: no preference13:35
tilmansip: does an entry in setup.dependencies need to list _all_ of its dependencies recursively, or are just the first-level deps required to be listed?13:36
sipall of them13:36
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sipso I did not have to re-implement recursive listing in bash13:36
tilmanlooking at diffs for setup.dependencies != fun13:38
sip141 blatantly looks a "works for me" case13:38
jaegerto be honest, I wouldn't mind being able to use -jX in ports so overriding with -j1 on a per-port basis doesn't bother me but I'm sure there are some who don't agree13:39
jaegerI just wonder how many ports break. firefox and thunderbird are also in that list13:39
jaegerI don't consider that important enough to halt the 2.3 release, though13:40
sipthat's because you've been overexposed to gentoo13:40
jaegerit's because I only own 1 machine that doesn't have multiple CPUs or cores13:40
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tilmanre. bug #152. should we do like jue suggests in the comment and have people test it in the RC phase?13:41
tilmanif it shows to be baaad we can still revert before the final :>13:41
sipsounds ok13:41
jaegeraye, good idea13:41
sipjaeger, on -j1 I'm quite neutral13:42
jaegersip: I can override it myself, it's not a big deal13:42
sipno difference for me, as long as maintainers are not required to chek the port with -jn13:42
sipI mean, we'd override on user request13:43
jaegeranother possibility is a file somewhere that lists which ports are in need of an override but I'm not advocating that, it'd be a lot of work to keep updated I bet13:43
sipyeah, better solve the problem at the root13:44
sipcould you please send me a list of affected ports you're aware of?13:45
tilmanthe remaining bugs are boring13:45
jaegerI haven't kept one, to be honest, but I'll experiment and make a list13:45
jaegerwon't take long to at least compile a list of core/opt13:45
siptilman, we'll try to go faster with those13:46
sip136: closing, leave as is13:46
jaegeragreed on 136, that's easy for each user to pick his/her own13:46
jaegerer, +1 =)13:46
Viper_tillb's account is not appearing13:46
aon+1 :)13:46
jaegerit shows in the user groups13:47
sipViper_, that's why I asked him :)13:47
tilman  +113:47
tillbmmh i also can't assign tasks to me ...13:47
Viper_let's close 136.. everbody can changes it on his own13:48
sipplease do so. I'll try to fix tillb's account13:48
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Viper_so we don't use dedicated dirs?13:49
Viper_right now13:49
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tilmanclose -> won't fix13:50
sipViper_, no. At this point everybody is already fond on his personal preference13:50
tillbsip, it works now13:50
tillbjust logging in and ou :-)13:50
siptillb, my fault. you were not in the developer group13:51
tillbok :)13:51
sipnow, on 133...13:51
tilmanthe pkgutils bug deserve to remain open13:51
tilmanbut they aren't easily fixed13:51
jaegeriproute2 is already included... iana-etc I think we decided to wait on?13:51
* Viper_ closed 13613:51
jaegersince performance issues crop up without nss_db?13:52
aonhow about iputils?13:52
sipjaeger, yes, that was our latest view on the subject13:52
jaegeras for iputils, it seems like there's resistance to it but I'm not sure why13:52
aonwell, currently we're lacking v6 tools13:52
jueshouldn't we update iproute2 to 2.6.19-xxx ?13:53
jaegerthere's a conflict, iputils replaces:13:53
aonnothing else?13:54
jaegernot that I see13:54
sipthat will leave us with a pretty useless net-tools port13:54
aonyep, it could be renamed to 'inetd' :)13:55
jaegeraye, there was some talk of simply reverting it to inetd and replacing the rest with iputils13:55
sipsorry, I meant netkit-base13:55
jaegerassumed you meant that =)13:55
aonesp. if iana-etc is going to be included13:55
jaegerpart of the draw of iputils is that ping is more featureful13:55
sipthat was 99% of the draf if I remember well13:56
jaegerwe'll have to choose what to do with iana-etc if we remove all but inetd from netkit-base13:56
jaegerjue: I'll have a look at newer iproute213:57
jaegerunless sip is already doing that13:57
sipI propose to simply incorporate latest changes from one of the bsd13:57
sipjaeger, go on :)13:58
jaegersip: that's fine with me13:58
sipok, I'll take care of iana-etc then13:58
jaegershould we separate /etc/{protocols,services} anyway or leave it in netkit-base with inetd?13:58
juejaeger: thx, please have a look at my comment in #13313:58
sipa separate inetd makes more sense imo13:59
jaegerjue: I see it. are you referring specifically to the part about removing KERNEL_INCLUDE from the port?13:59
juesip: didn't we decide to stick with our fine/small service/protocols files13:59
jaegerI suppose it would be a good idea for me to install a crux 2.3 VM so I can adequately test this14:00
sipjue, yes, I think the latest one from netbsd is even smaller14:00
sip(our comes from netbsd AFAIR)14:00
siptilman, was it you who had a look at the netbsd files?14:00
tilmangotta check my logs to see the status14:01
juejaeger: yes14:01
jaegerwow... going to take a LONG time for me to get the 2.3 iso14:01
* jaeger gets out and pushes the download14:02
siplucky !@#! :)14:02
jaegerugh, it's getting worse... down to 29k/s14:03
tilmani remember the files from netbsd looked okay14:03
jaegerwonder if there's a problem at kalmar or here14:03
sipok. so jaeger->iputils, sip->iana-etc,inetd14:04
sipno, i'd leave 131 for 2.414:04
sipwhile 107 looks a potential 2.3 tag14:05
jaegerI'm in the middle of switching mine to unionfs anyway14:05
jaeger+1 107, seems easy and useful14:05
jaeger80 is another quick one14:06
sipright. jaeger-udev and tilman-pkgutils are our man14:06
tilmanViper_: your comment on 80... wanna fix coreutils?14:06
* sip dies14:06
tilmansip: let's postpone those though :x14:07
Viper_i cannot.. it's in core :)14:07
jaegeractually a pkgutils issue, not udev14:07
sipbtw, having a separate /usr does not make a lot of sense anyway14:07
sipjaeger, sure, just a matter of agreeing to the filename(s) to be used14:08
tilmanViper_: who says sleep should be in /bin? what's your source? :D14:08
Viper_well i looked at other distributions :)14:09
sipnow, I don't understand #5814:09
jaegerpersonally, I use 10-custom.rules14:09
sipViper_, me too, and I ran away screaming14:09
jaegercptn suggested 9.* but our hal rules are 90-hal.rules14:10
sipha! see the knowledge of our udev ubermeister was needed after all?14:10
Viper_sip: because of sleep not being in /bin or because of the other distributions?14:11
jaegercould dedicate a range like 10-19, nothing lives there yet (that I've run into)14:11
sipViper_, nah, just a joke14:11
Viper_ah ok.. didn't get the joke :)14:12
sipanyway, it's a quick fix so just fill in the Assigned field for now14:12
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jaeger58 made no sense to me, either14:14
jaegerdoes anyone object to using 1.*$ for custom user udev rules?14:15
tilmannfc, so yes ;)14:15
jaegerit would be a simple matter to use 9.*$ instead, only the hal port is affected14:16
jaegerso if you have a preference, say so14:16
tilmani really don't14:16
jaegerI'll go with 1.*$, can always be changed later if it becomes necessary14:17
jaegerwhich I guess is up to you if you're the pkgutils guru :)14:17
jueah, now #58 is clear. we have to add zlib to ISO_PACKAGES ;-)14:18
tilmanguru status sucks :p14:19
sipah, that is14:19
tilmanjaeger: do you commit the change?14:19
tilmantrying #152 now14:19
jaegerI haven't touched it since there was some other pkgutils change14:19
tilmanpretty annoying to have to release a new pkgutils for this14:20
tilmanwhat about releasing the libarchive-based pkgutils now?14:20
jaegerit could go with the 2.3 release, no?14:20
tilmanstill didn't encounter any problem14:20
jaegerno preference14:20
tilmanand the testing phase has been about 2.5 months longer than originally expected :D14:21
sipwill it be statically linked or do we use the libarchive port?14:21
tilmanit's still statically linked14:21
sipok. a little concern about performance: I found bsdar a lot slower than gnu tar14:22
sipnot sure how it compares with libtar14:22
tilmani don't remember whether i did performance testing14:22
tilmanlet me do that14:23
tilmannot tonight though14:23
jaegerdo you want me to make that pkgadd.conf change or are you doing it with your changes?14:23
tilmanjaeger: i'll handle that14:23
jaegerok, thanks. cptn's comment has typos if you hadn't already spotted them14:24
jaegerUPGRADE ^etc/udev/rules.d/.*$ YES14:24
jaegerUPGRADE ^etc/udev/rules.d/1.*$ NO14:24
siptilman, regarding pkgutils in general feel free to have a look at what you think is better for the 2.3 release14:24
bd2tilman, which libarchive version do you use, or planning to put on iso (if any)? 1.3.1 have a bug: it won't change permissions on existent dirs.  <= 2.0b10 too buggy. 2.0b11 is fine, and also much tested by me14:25
Viper_btw something completely different: i still get these 'invald character' errors when pushing a git-commit with "umlauts"14:26
tilmanbd2: ahahahaha, how very mature :-)14:26
jaegersip: should I go ahead and put iputils into 2.3 core after I update it? (knowing it will conflict with netkit-base)14:26
sipjaeger, yes.14:27
jaegeras soon as I get a VM installed with 2.3 I'll do that and update iproute2 as well14:27
sipnow, for non-listed stuff14:28
sipout of my mind, glibc headers, ..what else?14:29
prologiccan we get some commonly used installs scripted into 2.3 ?14:29
tilmanheh, just wanted to mention gcc 4.1.214:30
sepenand what about #29?14:30
jaeger <-- netbsd-current /etc/{protocols,services} if anyone wanted to look at them14:30
sepenwheel,toor ...14:30
prologicsip, ie: /dev/hda1 / /dev/hda2 swap isntall - just base system with cd kernel copied :)14:30
sipI have a working prototype here: :-P14:32
prologichahah funny14:32
prologicfine I'll shutup :/14:32
sipno need to, It's something I'd like to see as well14:32
tilmani don't get it14:32
prologicheh ok14:32
sipbut not in 2.314:33
prologicjust I wouldn't mind seeing scripted installs eventually14:33
prologicI do the same 7 steps over and over again :)14:33
siptilman, some quick-install script to save some time14:33
tilmanubuntu has that? :)14:34
prologicand we're not talking a whole net setup app for newbies btw :) I quite like the way crux installs!14:34
sipsepen, isn't that fixed?14:34
prologicubuntu ugggh :)14:34
jaegerperhaps a compromise, not on the ISO but a collection of submitted scripts that could be used via a usb key during install or something14:35
jaegersip: we "fixed" it by reverting to the old behavior but I don't think cptn ever got a response from upstream14:35
sipoh, i see14:35
tilmanputting a typo in a line that says /* UNUSED */ is pretty damn dumb14:41
sipso what's the plan? we work on these things during the next days and attempt to build a RC in, say, a week?14:43
jaegersounds reasonable to me14:43
tilmani'll find a answer to the pkgutils question within the week14:44
Viper_sip: qemu-bin and kqemu seems to be not up-to-date14:44
jaegerqemu 0.9.0 works well, I'm using it now14:44
sipjaeger, compiled with gcc4?14:45
jaegerstill binary14:45
jaegerI didn't try14:45
sipoh ok.14:45
sipViper_, thanks. will update it14:45
sipoh, an important question: what about ports that depends on xorg?14:46
sipdo we list xorg or the single libraries?14:46
jueI changed my ports to use the singel libs14:47
jaegersingle libs would be my preference14:47
jaegerbit messier from an eyeball standpoint but I prefer accuracy14:47
prologicsip, list xorg, it would seem silly to only have parts of xorg installed14:48
jaegerhere's another question - if we ship both x11 and xorg, which deps have preference?14:48
prologicshould we even ship both ?14:48
jaegerI'm quite content never to use x11 again14:48
siphell, no! :)14:48
prologicmost users are going to be using xorg anyway and removing x1114:48
prologicsame here14:48
prologicso just ship xorg :)14:49
jaegersomeone can maintain an x11 port if they want to outside, certainly14:49
prologicof course14:49
prologicdon't know why they'd want to - xorg is so much better I've found :)14:50
sipyou know, people like to mess thinkgs up14:50
sipok guys, gotta go now14:51
prologicis the 2.3 cd going to be shipped with jaeger's livecd features ? sshd, live network etc ?14:51
prologiccause that'll be real nice :)14:51
sipwe just ditched the idea :-P14:51
prologicahh damn :/14:52
prologicsarcasm right ? :)14:52
sipI think it's wiser to leave the livecd for 2.414:53
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jaegerback, had a quick meeting15:00
jaegerprologic: it'll be after the 2.3 release, I'm in the middle of converting it to unionfs anyway15:01
jaegerI intend to keep providing the updated ones15:01
jaegerdoh, sorry I missed sip leaving but I guess we've got plenty to work on for now :)15:01
prologiclemme know if I can do anything ? :)15:02
* jaeger installs 2.3 in a vm15:03
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jaegertake care15:04
Viper_jaeger: are you using qemu with kqemu?15:22
tilmanaon: that's nice15:23
jaegerViper_: any problem with it?15:29
Viper_no it seems to be working15:29
Viper_thanks anyway :)15:29
Viper_jaeger: did you create a new .config file for this virtual machine?15:40
jaegernope, just an image15:41
Viper_an image?15:41
jaegerin which to install15:41
jaegerqemu-img create crux23.img 4096M15:42
Viper_no i mean kernel .config file :)15:42
jaeger(or similar)15:42
jaegerah, no15:42
jaegerI used the one from the 2.3 ISO15:42
jaegerjust to save time15:42
Viper_ah ok then i will try that too, thanks :)15:42
Viper_i will test the 2.2->2.3 update :)15:42
pitillosorry, where can I find the 2.3 iso?15:44
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pitillojaeger, thank you :)15:44
* Viper_ is starting to like qemu :)15:44
pitilloI will try tomorrow at vbox too. (I doubt I can be usefull but I will give it a try :)15:45
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jaegerhrmm... newest iputils packages require sgml/docbook utils to build the man pages, sounds nasty for core16:25
jaegerfor now, I put a bit older one into core so we can at least have a look at it16:32
aondunno how to sort that out16:36
aonkeeping a separate tarball with premade manpages comes to mind, but that's a bit icky, too16:36
jaegeroops... didn't mean to update gl-select in 2.3 opt16:37
jaegeroh well, it'll get removed later16:37
aoni guess i should look into cdrkit rsn16:39
aoni thought i fixed libcap, but i'm not so sure, as other apps that use it complain16:39
prologicanyone seen/used libburn ?16:40
aonnot really16:40
prologicjust that I know the developer of that16:40
aonheh :)16:40
prologicsuppose to be a cdrecord/growisofs replacement in a C library form16:40
prologicwith tools of course16:41
prologicthat one16:42
prologiclibburnia actually16:42
jaegerhaven't used it16:42
prologicneither have I (yet)16:42
prologicbut apparently it works really well16:42
aoni wonder which cd-burning app it was that the guy we ridiculed behind his back was developing16:43
aoni just find distant references from my logs16:43
jaegerno idea16:43
jaegeranyway, heading out, see you a bit later16:43
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aonit _might_ have been that libburnia16:43
aonalthough i think it was just libburn back then16:43
prologiclet's talk some more about him later :)16:44
prologicI find the guy quite annoying and pesky :)16:45
prologicneways gotta go to pilates16:45
aonok, have fun  :)16:45
clbUpdate from opt: 20 Feb 22:39 - gl-select: added missing usage option || 20 Feb 22:36 - gl-select: updated to version 1.1 (ati support)17:05
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prologichey jaeger18:54
prologicthe same thing happened again with that machine18:54
prologicalthough it isn't here now - long story ;/ out of my hands18:54
prologicbut avhl wasn't startinv correctly18:55
prologicand then X was failing again for the same reason18:55
jaegervery odd18:57
prologicI know19:01
prologicI'm gonna try and install crux 2.2 on a vm using vmware19:01
prologicand see if I can reproduce the same thing19:01
prologicit's bugging me :/19:01
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