IRC Logs for #crux-devel Tuesday, 2007-03-20

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j^2hey all08:49
j^2how are you today jaeger ?08:54
jaegernot too bad, I suppose. you?08:55
j^2other than it's morning and i HATE mornings, i think i'm doing ok...btw i should have some kitten pics up soon ;)08:55
jaegeralways good, heh08:56
tilmanmmh, kitten pics08:56
j^2yep tilman i got a kitten on friday08:56
j^2she's awesome08:56
tilmanoh, heh08:56
j^2sneezes alot though, but alas..i think she's sick08:57
j^2i need to take her to the vet08:57
tilmanisn't there a terminal disease cats get that involves sneezing?08:57
tilmanso yeah, you should!08:57
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prologictilman, any ideas about my via problem with xorg ?08:59
tilmanwhat problem?08:59
prologicXorg keeps saying "No devices found"08:59
prologicif I try to use the via driver08:59
prologicor Xorg -configure with it08:59
prologicI have all kernel via and via_agp modules loaded with no errors08:59
tilmanno idea08:59
prologic# lspci | grep VGA08:59
prologic01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. Unknown device 3230 (rev 11)08:59
prologicme neither :/09:00
prologicI have to use the vesa driver :/09:00
prologicI asked them09:00
prologicthey said to use BSD09:00
tilmanthat's an alternate driver for that via unichrome stuff09:01
tilmanmaybe that one works09:01
prologicthanks I'll try it09:02
prologicdidn't see one in ports09:02
prologicI believe mine is the via chrome 9 chip09:02
* prologic builds unichrome09:14
treachjaeger: ok, I've only ever seen it in use with gnome-related stuff.09:19
treach(woups wrong channel, but wth..) still, doesn't matter afaic, it's just bloat I'll never have any use for. :)09:20
jaegerfortunately for you it's not mandatory09:20
treachindeed, which is why it's out of my port.09:21
prologictilman, can you compile that unichrome driver at all ?09:25
prologicI can't compile the latest master09:25
prologicor the 0.2.6 release09:25
tilmandunno, never tried it09:26
prologiccan you please ?09:27
prologicI think the source is broken by first glance09:27
tilmantry their latest release09:32
prologicthat is the latest release09:33
prologicI tried the latest master/git version too09:33
tilman0.2.6 doesn't build for me either09:36
prologicand the latest git ver ?09:36
tilmanbut i run xorg-server 1.3.0-rc2 or so09:36
prologicI get that on the git ver09:36
prologicthe latest git _does_ compile ?09:37
prologicI should upgrade my xorg then09:37
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jaegerok, time to build gnome 2.18.011:00
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clbUpdate from opt: 20 Mar 16:09 - cups: update to 1.2.1011:22
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tilmanhey sip13:57
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sipI built 2.3 final a couple of days ago, pity we don't know how to put it online :/13:59
siphey jue.13:59
tilmansip: thanks for writing rc.fix so quickly13:59
jaegerironic, isn't it?13:59
siptilman, np, I wrote it as we spoke about the script14:00
tilmansip: i _really_ wanted to do that myself finally, but my exams mess with my time a bit14:00
sipjue, do ypu remember who's to be contacted for ftp publishing at
jaegermaybe we need a new master download location?14:01
jueIIRC Per did that last time14:01
sipthat would be grat14:01
jueafter Johannes ask him to do ;-)14:01
sipjue, finally we found somebody with a bit of memory14:02
tilmani've got plenty of traffic available14:02
tilmanbut i'm not sure if it's enough to have the mirrors rsync off me14:02
jaegerI could host one as well14:03
tilmanso jaeger's the new master14:03
jaegerthink we should have more than one "master" ?14:03
tilmanwhy should we? :o14:04
jaegerredundancy never hurts14:04
tilmangood, then i'll be master214:04
jaegerwell, I can host it until my employer says not to, heh14:05
jaegerthough I'd be surprised if they did14:05
tilmanwhat about distributing it by bittorrent first14:07
tilmanso when jaeger and i got it, we can announce it14:07
tilmanjust noticed i have rsyncd already set up14:07
jaegermaybe even bittorrent-only14:08
jaegerI can do bittorrent/rsync/ftp here anyhow14:09
jaegeris there still a tracker running at
jaegerlooks like there is14:10
sipold version, but yes14:11
jaegermight as well use that for the 2.3 torrent14:11
jaegerunless you know of some reason not to14:13
sipgo on ;)14:13
sipwe should really set up a 3rd-level domain such as pointing to whatever the master site is14:14
jaegerthat's easy enough14:14
jaegeror even round-robin dns to a couple or a few sites we know are stable14:15
jaegerlike but without the suck14:15
sipif you have access to dns administration for crux.nu14:15
siphaven't understood who's got the info yet14:15
jaegercharlie is the person to talk to for that14:15
sipoh, ok14:16
jaegerthere's a confusing screen process on crux.nu14:17
jaegerowned by root but root can't seem to attach14:17
sipcannot see it14:18
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jaegercleaned up14:19
jaegerI do think that 3rd level is a good idea as long as all the targets use the same structure14:20
sipwell, not strictly necessary14:21
sipI mean, I proposed it so we don't have to inform our mirrors if we move to another location14:22
jaegerI just meant in terms of download links or rsync links, etc.14:22
jaegerI do think it's a good thing to do14:22
tilmanyou don't want your downloads failing because you hit the wrong host14:24
tilmanoffering rsync via is a bit problematic though14:29
tilmani don't think we should force every mirror offer rsync14:29
tilmanwe could have "" that resolves to rsync-able mirrors14:29
jaegerperhaps ... I was just typing that :)14:30
sipfor ftp/http we have two options: 1) Send a URL to Per begging for taking care of the upload to current master 2) Inform all our mirrors of the new master jaeger or tilman14:30
sipI mean, do we want do make the change in the middle of the release or shortly after 2.3 is out?14:31
jaegersending a URL to Per is inconvenient for both him and us, though I'm sure he's willing14:31
tilmansip: before, if it doesn't take another month14:31
tilmani don't know how much work it is to get the round robin going14:31
tilmannever done that before14:31
jaegerit's not much work, very simple14:31
tilmanshould we poke _mavrick61 right now? :)14:32
jaegeryou simply add an address (A) record for each host, all pointed to the same name14:32
tilmanjaeger: doh, and the dns protocol will then pick one of the A records?14:32
sipI don't fully understand that round-robin proposal14:32
jaegerread and see if it sounds useful to you14:32
jaegertilman: that's the usual way, yes14:33
tilmansip: the idea is to share the rsync load between jaeger and me14:33
tilmanor at least i think that's the most useful aspect about it14:33
jaegerand to share the http/ftp load between the rest of the mirrors14:33
tilmando we have to ask the other mirror admins if they are okay with the round-robin thing?14:33
tilmanoh wait14:33
sipyah, I know what rrdns is, just could not see the usefulness ;)14:33
tilmanyou suggested to only add "known-good" mirrors to it14:33
jaegerto some extent, they'd need to be involved, yes... to get the right paths14:34
jaegerit may be more of a pain than it's worth14:34
tilmanlet's do it for at least14:34
jaegermaybe a good idea to go with that for rsync now and see how we like it14:34
jaegerbut if we're going to do that, we should request it now, yeah14:38
juewell, our mirror-list is a little bit smaller now, I've removed the dead ones14:42
jaegeroh, by the way, I have a suggestion for a wiki cleanup on the download page14:43
jaegermove the 2.1 (and 2.2) downloads to a separate page (OldVersions or something) and put a Previous Releases link after the mirror list instead14:44
sipGood idea14:44
jaegerbit less clutter and it becomes obvious which version is intended to be current14:45
sipShall we also move contributed builds into a separate page?14:45
jaegerno preference there, that list doesn't seem too large these days14:45
sipI suppose we also need a revamp of the Documentation section14:46
sipi.e. add some place to put docs about previous releases14:46
jaegerhrmm, probably a good idea14:48
jueso the plan is to release 2.3-rc2 as the final 2.3 and announce this after we have the iso on and ?14:59
sipjue, I modified 2.3-rc2 with updated docs15:00
sipfor the plan, not sure what's our best option15:00
tilmanshouldn't we announce rc2 first?15:02
tilmanand wait for "ziomg breakage!" feedback?15:02
jueI'd go with the final15:03
sipme too, the user base is so small I think we won't have much additional feedback anyway with another RC15:04
sipplus, it worked here, so it must be perfect ;)15:05
tilmanokay, i don't expect anything either15:05
tilmanso fine by me15:05
jaeger+1 final15:08
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sipjaeger, tilman, do you prefer to wait we have the mirrors in place before announcing?15:11
sipanother option: going bittorrent-only at first15:11
tilmani'd prefer to wait, yes15:11
tilman_mavrick61: ping?15:12
jaegerI'm fine with the bittorrent announcement, we could certainly set up the rsync mirrors in the meantime15:13
sipwell, we're almost ready to announche then \o/15:15
jueyeah, let's do it asap15:15
jaegeryay, shark15:16
tilmandid anyone of you upgrade git yet?15:16
jaegertilman: I haven't yet15:16
jueyep, no problems15:16
tilmanjue: excellent :)15:16
prologichmm hi guys15:16
siphey prologic15:16
prologicjust reading backlog15:17
prologicI could also mirror http/rsync15:17
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sipmaster mirror?15:20
prologicyeah the stuff you guys were talking about15:21
prologicgot bored 4/5ths the way through and ^L'd :)15:21
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sipok, so shall we adjust the docs / download pages right now and announce the availability via bittorrent?15:25
prologicsure I guess ? :)15:26
jaegerI don't see why not15:26
jaegerbrb, restroom break :)15:26
sipthen in the next days we'll setup mirrors 'n stuff15:26
tilmansip: okay15:26
tilmansip: wait half an hour perhaps15:27
tilmanjaeger's the only seed atm15:27
tilmanit's a bit sluggish ;D15:27
prologichow hard is it to become another seed ?15:28
prologicwhat do I need instaled/running ?15:28
tilmana bittorrent client15:28
prologicwell I can't stand any of hte ones available in ports :) any good ones ?15:29
prologicif I'm gonna help seed the iso prefer some daemon :)15:29
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tilmanbut you just don't seed with a daemon...15:30
prologicwhat there are no bittorrent capable clients that run as daemons ?15:30
tilmanscreen to the resuce, prologic15:31
jaegertilman: I'm nowhere near maxed out, too... only about 64k/s between 2 seeds here15:31
prologicrescue :)15:31
tilmanthanks, captain obvious :P15:31
prologicwelcome :)15:31
tilmanjaeger: hrrm, that's strange.15:31
jaegerprologic: I just seed with bittorrent-curses in screen here15:32
prologicbit of a PITA to have to screen it though ihmo :)15:32
prologicwaste of a pty :)15:32
jaegerthere's no reason you couldn't use the wxgtk version, or azureus, or utorrent, or <insert other client here>15:33
tilmanjaeger: you didn't enable b/w restriction in the torrent client, did you?15:33
sipgah, I'll just fire up azureus and hotswap bigger banks of ram as the app eats all the available memory15:33
jaegertilman: I did, actually, at 1 MiB/s15:34
jaegerso it's nowhere close, heh15:34
tilmanthen i have no idea what's going on15:34
tilmandon't think i have a limit set anywhere :(15:34
jaegermaybe that's just the best we can do between here and there15:34
jaegerlot of pipe in the way, hehe15:34
jaegerI'm up to 80k/s and 45k/s now15:34
tilmani'm getting around 110 kb/s15:35
prologicbtpd :)15:36
* prologic ports it and installs15:37
prologichow do I become a seed after I do so ?15:37
tilmanit's 2007 and you don't know how BT works? :)15:38
jaegerwell, I haven't used btpd but if you're seeding with a client, you just leave the client open after the download15:38
tilmanoh, i thought 'btpd' was supposed to be some acronym ;D15:38
prologicyeah :)15:39
jaegerBourbonnaus Township Park District15:39
prologicI'm sad - don't use BT's much at all15:39
jaegerer, Bourbonnais15:39
prologicjaeger, so just a matter of instructing this daemon to download the file via torrent15:40
prologicand keep it15:40
prologicwe'll see :)15:40
prologicI could in theory run two btpd's on both my pipes15:41
prologick link ot the .torrent ?15:44
jaeger50854463551fa9985c91a1b16bcc2f2d  crux-2.3.iso15:46
jaeger50854463551fa9985c91a1b16bcc2f2d  /dev/cdrom15:46
tilmanup to 200kb/s now15:46
jaegeranyone ever look at the tracker stats?15:47
jaeger189.3 GiB of 2.2 downloads15:47
jaegerof course that's only the torrent but still, neat15:47
tilmanwhoa :)15:48
j^2seems that crux has a following ;)15:59
prologica following ? :)16:04
prologicplease explain!16:04
jaegerI assume he's referring to the downloads16:04
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prologicwe do have a page ranking on distrowatch too apparently16:06
prologicit used to be in the top 100 - not sure if it still is16:06
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j^2yeah, that's ~756 times it's been downloaded... that's not too shabby16:07
tilmanprologic: i think it is16:08
prologicahh cool16:08
prologiccouldn't see it last night16:08
tilmansip: want to send the announcement now? :)16:09
jaegerit's 10216:09
prologicahh jus toutsdie16:10
tilman"the crux team is proud to announce the release of version 2.3 before Duke Nukem Forever"16:10
j^2isnt the cd 250mb?16:10
sipplease somebody else drom a quick note to the ML. my english is worse than ever tonight16:11
sipbe sure to mention
sipI'm pretty sure there will be somebody asking for stuff mentioned there, but hey at least we tried ;)16:12
tilmanjaeger, jue: does one of you wish to do it?16:13
jaegerback, was AFK16:15
prologicI suppose I could16:15
prologicunless jaeger wnats to :)16:15
jaegerI don't mind16:15
prologicgo for it then :)16:15
prologicare {crux,crux-devel,contrib} still valid ml lists ?16:16
juetilman: sorry, no.16:16
prologiccan someone check my subscription then ? I don't think I'm getting any mail on any of those lists :/16:17
jaegermsg me the address you're subscribed with and I'll check16:19
sipwe'll use as a temporary url for the changelog16:19
sipprologic, I'll check right now16:19
jaegersip: ok if I put that URL in the announcement?16:20
sipprologic shortcircuit net au is there16:20
sipjaeger, yes16:21
prologicon all 3 I mentioned ?16:21
prologicI don't know what my passwords are on any of them :/16:21
prologiccan you send a password reminder ?16:21
sipWe have received some recent bounces from your address. Your current bounce score is 3.0 out of a maximum of 5.0. Please double check that your subscribed address is correct16:22
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sipthat's what mailman says16:22
sipmaybe you host is refusing mail from crux.nu16:23
prologicit shouldn't be16:24
prologicbut I was having problems a month or so ago16:25
prologiccan you re-enable any that are disabled ?16:25
prologicI think I updated my password globally - if that works16:25
jaegerdoesn't look like it's refusing16:25
jaegercancer seems to accept and return a 250 status16:25
prologicvirgo will as well _should_16:26
sipok guys gotta log out. I briefly updated the download and documentation page, please review/fix if necessary. I'll donwlnoad and seed later when I'm back.16:28
tilmanbye sip16:29
jaegerannouncement sent16:29
jaegernight, sip16:29
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jaegerooops, date is still wrong in sip's changelog, fixing16:30
juehmm, 2007-03-20 seems to be ok?16:33
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jaegerjue: I already fixed it16:34
prologicleeching atm16:34
prologicwill seed shortly :)16:34
jaeger5 seeders at the moment16:34
jaeger2 of which are me16:34
prologicit just automatically seeds right ? I mean bt doesn't have to know anything about other seeds ?16:34
prologicguess that's part of the protocol16:34
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prologic$ btcli stat16:37
prologic  HAVE   DLOAD      RTDWN   ULOAD       RTUP   RATIO CONN  AVAIL16:37
prologic 17.7%  43.27M 252.18kB/s   0.00M   0.00kB/s    0.00    4 100.0%16:37
thrice`status:   seeding (100.0%)16:37
prologicbtpd is great btw16:40
prologicvery simple to use and fast16:40
jaegeruploading at about 450k/s now16:45
jaegerup to 750, guess people were reading :)16:47
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prologicyeah and I have a 6Mbps connection downstream16:48
jaegerer... I'll tweak the front page16:51
prologicyeah I was going to :)16:51
prologichow many seeders now ?16:51
prologicand what's the url to the tracker ?16:52
prologicwhat's a tracker do anyway ?16:53
prologichmm doesn't say how many seeds there are does it ?16:53
jaeger"complete" is the currently connected clients with the whole file (seeders)16:54
prologicahh k16:55
prologicI wouldn't have thought they'd _all_ necessarily be seeders though16:55
jaegerif they disconnect, the number goes back down16:56
jaegerthat's why you see such a disparity between "complete" and "downloaded" on crux 2.2, for example16:56
treach842 downloaded, I guess there are more cruxers than you'd think.16:58
jaegera lot of those might be repeat downloads (lost the CD or whatever) but on the other hand, this is ONLY torrent stats, so I agree, there are more than we think16:59
jaegerat least trying it16:59
treachyeah. let's hope 2.3 reaches the same number.16:59
treachI gues it's up to tilman's little marketing stunt. :P17:00
jaegerI've got to go, got a birthday party this evening to go to, but I'll be back later17:00
jaegerheh, should work well17:00
treachok, have fun. :)17:01
jaegerthanks, take care17:01
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tilmanmarketing stunt?17:01
treachyeah. that osnews article you spoke of. :P17:01
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jjpkLet the "zomg b0rk3n" mails roll in :D18:04
treach"I'm terribly disappointed, after all this work ubuntu refuses to boot, and package management seems broken."18:07
treachwhee. Hours of work for 3 seconds of eyecandy. :P19:29
clbUpdate from xorg: 12 Mar 14:59 - xorg-server: removed README, the bug is fixed in 2.319:29
clbUpdate from opt: 20 Mar 16:11 - Merge branch '2.2' into 2.3 || 19 Mar 07:26 - Merge branch '2.2' into 2.3 || 15 Mar 17:44 - apache: fixed description || 15 Mar 16:03 - Merge branch '2.2' into 2.3 || 14 Mar 20:00 - wmclock: fixed dependencies || 14 Mar 15:17 - gl-select: fixed some symlink mess || 14 Mar 15:15 - nvidia: fixed install paths typo || 14 Mar 14:54 - gl-select: removed a missed libGL_a ref || 14 Mar 14:51 - gl-select: removed libGL.a refs || 14 Mar 14:21 - nvidia: updated to version 1.0-9755, updated for xorg 7.x || 14 Mar 14:16 - gl-select: updated for xorg 7.x19:29
clbUpdate from core: 15 Mar 16:10 - shadow: removed /usr/X11R6/bin in login.defs || 15 Mar 16:06 - filesystem: added 'cdrom' to /etc/group (used by our udev rules) || 14 Mar 19:21 - rc: added /etc/rc.fix || 13 Mar 16:30 - Merge branch '2.2' into 2.3 || 11 Mar 09:38 - Merge branch '2.2' into 2.3 || 7 Mar 17:16 - Merge branch '2.2' into 2.3 || 6 Mar 16:31 - Merge branch '2.2' into 2.3 || 6 Mar 16:30 - dhcpcd: update to 3.0.16 || 6 Mar 16:29 - bash: update to 3.2.10 || 3 Mar 12:45 - tcsh: removed old x11-related path entry || 28 Feb 20:41 - exim: added openssl patch || 27 Feb 16:52 - Merge branch '2.2' into 2.3 || 26 Feb 17:33 - pkgutils: updated to 5.2219:31
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prologic$ btcli stat20:08
prologic  HAVE   DLOAD      RTDWN   ULOAD       RTUP   RATIO CONN  AVAIL20:08
prologic100.0%   0.00M   0.00kB/s 133.76M   0.00kB/s    0.56    0   0.0%20:08
prologicit would seem noone is downloading the iso anymore :)20:08
prologicreally ?20:09
prologicnoone is using my seed :)20:09
treachprologic: I've currently got 7 delinquents in the list.20:09
prologicumm what was the reason for removing rp-pppoe ?20:19
prologicthat seems a bit silly imo to remove an essential networking tool from the iso20:19
prologicor are we assuming everyone has a plug and play router these days ?20:19
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treach243.6 MB Rate: 198.0 /   0.0 KB Uploaded:  1085.0 MB20:44
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_mavrick61I just saw some discussion about RR for next Crux release..22:10
_mavrick61Just provide me with the addresses so can I set up RR recod in DNS..22:11
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