IRC Logs for #crux-devel Sunday, 2007-08-05

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tilmanjaeger: do you know about poppler-data?09:10
tilmanjaeger: we might want to ship that.09:10
tilmanthings to ponder:09:10
tilmanseparate port or not (it might only be useful to a subset of users)09:11
jaegerit's for CJK and Cyrillic, right?09:11
tilmanopt or secret repo, since the data isn't free, it seems09:11
tilmanyep09:11
tilmanit can be freely copied09:12
tilmanso that's not an issue09:12
jaegerok09:12
tilmanand btw, glib 2.14 is out09:13
jaegerI'm sure someone would complain a lot if it's in the same port as poppler with 2 different licenses, free or no09:13
jaegerok, thanks09:13
tilmanyes09:15
tilmanbut i could imagine our ukrainian users would appreciate a port of poppler-data09:15
tilmanmmh09:17
tilmanRomster: does glibmm 2.12 build against glib 2.14?09:17
tilmani guess it should09:18
Romsteri've made a update diff of sudo but of course i /still/ can not emil to anyhting with @sruc.nu :/09:18
jaegeryeah, just thinking a separate port would be better for those two reasons: 1) maybe not useful to all, and 2) adobe license09:18
Romstertilman, i haven't tryed09:19
Romster@crux.nu09:19
jaegeroh, if anyone would like to test the 2.3 netinst iso, find it at http://acheron.frc.utulsa.edu:81/~jaeger/test/09:19
jaegerif you DO try it, please use http://acheron.frc.utulsa.edu:81/~jaeger/2.3-20070804/ as the package URL, that's the only place I've uploaded 2.3 packages09:19
Romsterwould a version bump alone be suficent for glib?09:21
tilmani guess so09:21
jaegerI've built it on this machine, testing it now... so far it hasn't broken09:21
tilmanjaeger: are the package names hardcoded in the setup script?09:22
tilmanor could i try it with the 2.3.final packages, too?09:22
jaegerno09:22
tilman(i'd set up a local ftpd)09:22
jaegerI generate a list and md5sums09:22
tilmani see09:22
tilmanvery cool09:22
jaegerhttp://acheron.frc.utulsa.edu:81/~jaeger/2.3-20070804/crux/packages.lst09:22
tilmanyep, just found it09:22
jaeger:)09:22
tilmani'll try to test it in qemu later09:23
jaegerthanks09:23
Romsterjaeger, while your at it change the /2.12/ to /${version%.*}/ inthe source line.09:27
jaegerwhat, no please? :)09:28
Romsteraww why not i hate version bumps and finding the source array has another version number to alter too.09:28
Romsterplease jaeger :)09:28
tilmanit's unreadable :P09:29
Romsterpfft lol.09:29
jaegerit's a tad cryptic, true09:29
Romsternot really, hasn't been to me *shrugs*09:30
Romsteryour call as its your port.09:30
jaegerI think I'll stick with 2.14 for now, might change it later09:31
jaegerdon't have to change that too often, fortunately09:32
Romstertrue, not in this case but some packages ya do, like in xorg i think i found a few.09:36
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Romsterhmm might of been kde i found.09:44
jaegerAFK, gotta run an errand09:45
clbUpdate from opt: 5 Aug 14:44 - glib: updated to version 2.14.009:46
Romsterfigure i gotta rebuild all of the ports that depend on glib... better check to revdep09:48
tilmanyou figure wrong09:48
tilmanglib releases are always source and binary compatible to previous ones09:48
tilmansince 2.0 obviously09:48
Romsterwell if any of the API's have altered ya do.09:48
Romsterah.09:49
tilmanatm, pkgutils2 is a speed devil10:00
tilmanpkginfo -l:10:00
tilmanpkgutils 5.30.0: .12s10:00
tilmanpkgutils2: 0.02s10:01
treachprt-cache listinst is just as fast. :)10:14
tilman:)10:16
jaegernice!10:55
Romsteris that using -O3 ?10:56
tilmanwell, i just wanted to say that the new thing is going to be faster than the current one10:57
tilmanat least it looks like this atm10:57
tilmanRomster: O210:57
Romsterah standerd then.10:59
treachas if that would make much difference...11:03
tilmani don't even know where O3 wins over O211:04
treachwhen you gain from inlining and unswitching loops, probably ;)11:05
tilmanif i understand -funswitch-loops correctly, it's probably boring11:05
tilmancause if you have stuff that can be optimized with this, your code is really silly11:05
treachmmh, if you're using a lot of gotos it might make a difference as well.11:07
tilmanmmh, maybe11:08
treachbut all in all it sounds like a bunch of cornercases, more or less11:08
tilmani think in general goto-ladden code is hard to optimize11:08
tilmancause it's harder to make assumptions about the control flow11:08
tilmani think i'm almost being cptn obvious ;)11:08
treachheh11:09
treachgotos are good, but you should use them with care..11:09
tilmanyeah11:09
tilmanso.11:15
tilmandoes it make sense to omit the leading slash in eg "pkginfo -l"?11:15
tilmanand pkginfo -o etc11:15
tilmanor: is it bad to show the leading /?11:16
jaegerI don't think it's a problem either way11:20
tilmanwonder whether there's a market for 'christian crux'11:52
tilman1.) do a survey on this11:52
treachhaha, I doubt it.11:52
tilman2.) produce christian crux11:52
tilman3.) ???11:52
tilman4.) profit!11:52
treachdamned religious nutjobs.11:53
tilman;D11:53
treachI wonder what's so unholy about ubuntu that they need a "christian" edition.. Is it "angels" instead of daemons and "ghosts" instead of zombies..?11:57
treach*shakes head*11:57
tilmanmaybe they didn't like the default wallpaper with the three guys and 2 dekolletes12:00
treachor maybe they needed something to go with their christian computer, bought in a christian shop, standing on a christan table, etc. :p12:03
tilmanmmh12:04
tilmanchristian ubuntu *is* real, right?12:04
treachafaik, yes.12:04
tilmani think the spoof was satanic ubuntu12:04
tilmani'm asking because christianubuntu.com forwards to whatwouldjesusdownload.com, LOL12:05
treachthere are definitely enough religious wackos out there to make it possible.12:05
treachhehe12:05
tilmani'd like to see a christian ubuntu user map12:05
treachhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Christian_Edition12:06
treachROFL12:06
tilmangnihihi, they have a bible box firefox theme12:06
treachgnucash is part of it. :D12:06
tilmanerr, bible fox12:07
tilmanhttp://bodizzlethemes.blogspot.com/ about half way down12:07
tilmangreat icons >12:07
treachscary12:08
treach"I really wish those who are opposed to the Christian faith could take their guards down for a moment and look at the bigger picture of what I am trying to accomplish."12:09
treachsounds like a nice representative.12:09
tilmanjaeger: do you know whether gtk 2.12 is due "soonish", too? i can't find a release plan12:10
treacha through and through hypocrite.12:10
tilmantreach: source?12:10
treachthe wikipedia page above12:10
tilmanoh12:11
treachlol http://ubuntusatanic.org/news/about12:12
tilmanyeah, that's what i had in mind12:12
tilman:D12:12
treachI got that, nice little bible quote. :)12:12
treachdamn, it almost makes me sorry I don't use ubuntu. ;D12:13
tilman:D12:13
tilmanhttp://christianubuntu.blogspot.com/12:13
tilman# There is no abort() support in Ubuntu Christian Edition's glibc12:13
tilmanhehe12:13
jaegertilman: no idea there12:14
treachHAHA ;D12:14
tilman#12:14
tilmanIn Ubuntu Christian Edition, there can be only root and 12 more users, one of which will help crackers to acces the system.12:14
tilmanthat's a really good one ;>12:15
treachsudo is blasphemy. :P12:15
jaegerif I had to guess, I'd guess the christian version is made solely so the author can laugh at people who use it12:17
tilman "Six Six Sixty Four Bit"12:18
tilman:]12:18
treachdon't forget there's Ichthux, and Ubuntu Muslim Edition (rather convenient to short as "Ubuntu ME"..)12:19
tilmanthere's an "Ubuntu Ultimate Edition" according to a german wikipedia page12:20
tilmano_O12:20
tilmani just find it stupid to poke fun at the vista naming ;)12:21
treachputting religious labels on stuff isn't too bright either.12:23
treachmakes me think of some medival hawker trying to sell miracle water and "genuine relics".12:24
treach"Sire, buy this genuine toe of St Thomas" *holds up skeletal detail from a dog*12:24
tilman:D13:00
tilmanchrist13:05
tilman> I want to release Pango 1.18 early next week.13:05
tilmanmaybe gtk 2.12 is around the corner13:05
tilmanthat would be so sweet13:05
tilmanhttp://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gtk is at 2.12 already :O13:07
tilmanactually, "for GTK+ 2.11.6" ;)13:08
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tilmanthe state of pdf rendering on a free desktop is a sad one14:49
tilmanand/or the developers of acrobat reader aren't very capable14:50
tilmans/and\/or /14:50
tilmanthey definitely aren't14:50
tilmanthey don't seem to have *any* caching14:51
tilmanjesus14:51
tilmangrrrr14:51
treachHate to say this, but afaik there aren't any *developers* on acrobat for linux. :/14:55
treachafaik it's *one* guy, or so.14:55
tilmanheh14:56
tilmanit's kind of nice that they list all the people involved in Help->about->Credits14:57
treachIt must be adobes variant of putting someone in the freezer.14:57
treachwhat happened to rakt, btw. I saw you sent sip a tarball. Does that mean there's still hope? :)14:58
treachepdfview feels rather... buggy. :>14:58
tilmanwget http://people.redhat.com/drepper/optimtut1.ps.gz14:58
tilmangunzip optimtut1.ps14:58
tilmanps2pdf optimtut1.ps14:58
tilmanepdfview optimtut2.pdf14:59
tilmannotice it's completely unreadable14:59
tilman-> poppler sucks14:59
tilmantreach: but epdfview annoys me, too. so yeah, there's hope :D15:00
treach\o/15:00
treachwell, I think it's because of the font used. Some looks pretty ok to me, others, like this one, is hopeless. :/15:01
treachs is/are15:01
tilmanmaybe i'll try poppler 0.5.9 sometime15:02
treachalso, I'm getting fairly tired of that "LOADING" crap. :/15:02
tilmanindeed15:02
jjpkI don't know what adobe is doing with acroread in linux, but it sucks.15:04
treach..and freedesktop.org seems to be down, again. Are they hosted by sourceforge..?15:05
jjpkhaha15:05
tilmanMIT is having connectivity problems15:05
tilmanwait15:05
tilmanthat's why x.org is down15:05
tilmanfdo is at portland ;)15:05
tilmanpeople.fdo works for me15:05
treachMIT having "connectivity problems" is hardly news. :>15:05
tilmanas does www.15:06
treach$name.freedesktop.org doesn't15:07
tilmanwith $name being what?15:07
treachpoppler, for instance15:08
tilmanworksforme15:08
tilmanjust tried that one, too :)15:08
treach:/15:08
tilmanhttp://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/poppler15:09
tilman"suggested fontconfig font substitutions"15:10
tilmanmmh, maybe i should try those15:10
tilmanalthough i don't think those fonts are very popular15:10
treach"dingbats".. mmh, that sounds like something drepper would use.15:11
tilmaneh?15:12
treachZapfDingbats -> Dingbats15:12
tilmanwell yes15:12
tilmanbut that's some kidn of symbol font, isn't it?15:12
tilmandrepper's paper uses helvetica afaict15:12
treachof course15:12
treach.. sorry. forget about it. :)15:13
tilmanforget about what? ;]15:13
treachthat thing you didn't see passing you. :p15:14
* tilman goes through poppler's bug list in bugz15:14
treachwhat I don't get is why evince/kpdf manages to look decent, while everything else looks like crap.15:15
tilmanreally? evince = good whereas epdfview = bad?15:16
treachwell, at least I don't have any recollection of it behaving nearly as badly.15:16
treachsame goes for kpdf15:16
tilmanthat's weird, since both use the same poppler backend (the glib one)15:17
tilmanor do they15:17
treachand "good" is probably an exaggeration15:17
tilmanmaybe evince uses the cairo backend15:17
tilman"pdffonts optimtut1.pdf" yields itneresting output15:20
tilmanmaybe acroread just has a better fallback font15:20
treachhmm, something's still strange.15:22
treachI just tested with "SumatraPDF", which is a windows app, but also uses poppler apparently.15:22
treachThe result on the original pdf was way better than epdfview15:23
tilmanhttps://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=913115:23
jjpkThat bug is still floating unfixed?15:25
tilmancomment #2 suggests it's not a bug15:25
tilmanas i understand it, cairo uses poppler to test its own pdf system15:25
jaegerargh, can't get terminus sources right now15:26
tilmanwant me to upload them?15:26
jaegerthat would be great :)15:26
jjpkWouldn't be the first time terminus is unavailable.15:27
tilmanhttp://crux.nu/~tilman/terminus-font-4.20-gq2.diff.gz15:27
tilmanhttp://crux.nu/~tilman/terminus-font-4.20.tar.gz15:27
jaegerjjpk: aye, was thinking about mirroring it myself but I never remember that when it's up :)15:27
jaegertilman: thanks much15:27
tilmannp15:27
treachscary, running that silly program through wine works a million times better than epdfview..15:28
tilmancraptastic15:29
treachindeed15:29
jjpkkdpf was nice, but it unfortunately depends on kde.15:30
treachyeah, kind of a downer.. :>15:30
jjpkWhat else did I find annoying with kpdf...15:31
jjpkIt was unable to open multiple files iirc.15:31
tilmanwith the current version of cairo, i would not get the impression that it depends on poppler again15:32
tilman    AC_MSG_WARN([PDF backend will not be tested since poppler >= $POPPLER_VERSION_REQUIRED is not available])15:32
jjpkAt least it confirms what was said in poppler's bugzilla.15:34
tilmanyep15:34
tilmantreach: does sumatra render optimtut1.pdf correctly, too?15:35
treachwell, "reasonably readable" I'd say15:36
tilmani should install 0.5.9 *now*15:36
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treachcurrently building it.. :>15:42
tilmanx just died for me15:42
tilmano___O15:42
treach:(15:42
treachmh, wonder if I need to rebuild epdf..15:44
tilmandoesn't help anyway15:45
treachsame crap, but faster, I'd say. :/15:46
tilmanevince uses poppler_page_render(), which renders to a cairo surface15:59
tilmanraktpdf uses _render_to_pixbuf()15:59
tilmanditto for epdfview15:59
tilmanbut i don't think it's likely that this is causing the problems16:00
treachhaha, just played a bit with rakt, too bad it doesn't have zoom.16:09
treachbecause it absolutely kills epdf on pdfs that makes you wait forever on "Loading" :>16:10
treachlike the fhs-2.3.pdf and "lshort.pdf" ("short" guide to latex)16:10
tilmanif you want to play, feel free to make raktpdf use cairo instead of gdk_pixbuf16:10
tilman0.5.9 really sseems faster16:11
treachhm, I'm too tired right now for such exercises, but I might have a look at it tomorrow.16:11
treachyeah, quite a bit16:12
tilmanlshort.pdf doesn't show much "loading" at all here16:12
treachI bet my system is slower than yours. :(16:12
tilmanbut this is a 1.5 ghz athlon :D16:12
treachthat should be ":)"16:12
treachwell, this one is clocked at 700Mhz. :P16:13
tilman:]16:13
tilmando modern desktop cpus support dynamically changing the clock speed?16:13
tilman"speedstep" etc16:14
treachseriously, it's fast enough to watch mkv's etc, so why shouldn't it be enough to render a few lousy pdfs..?16:14
treachathlons do, "cool'n quiet"16:14
treachthe more modern ones that is.16:15
tilmanyeah16:15
tilmanthat's good to see16:15
treachthis is only possible because I have a nforce2 mb.16:15
treachother than just setting it in bios, obviously.16:15
tilmanmmh16:16
tilmanhehe, just found a dumb memory leak in raktpdf16:21
treachone of those discoveries you get both happy and annoyed by. :)16:23
tilmanyeah16:24
tilmani'll do the cairo move now i think16:25
jjpk"yay found bug. :) nay, it's a mem leak. :("16:26
tilmanjjpk: more like "omg, i can't believe i didn't notice that :("16:27
tilmani usually often run valgrind to find memory leaks etc16:27
tilmanwhen i started on raktpdf, i found a gtk bug16:28
tilmani reported it, i fixed it, but they rejected it: "the fix looks good, but i can't reproduce the bug. sucks to be you."16:28
tilmano_O16:28
treachjjpk: I meant like "something you'd rather not see, but non the less are happy you found"16:28
treachsounds really sane..16:29
jjpkThe mind is a terrible thing to taste. :p16:29
tilmani can see why they hesitated16:29
tilmanbut some more attempts and work and they would have been able to realize that there really was a bug16:30
tilmanoh well16:30
jjpkA shit attitude for a dev. :s16:32
tilmanyes, i was pretty annoyed about him >:16:33
tilmanespecially because i spent 2 hours or so diving into that horrible gtk-file-chooser code16:33
tilmanto understand and fix the bug :x16:33
jjpk"gee, thanks"16:35
treachpass the patch to jaeger. :p16:38
tilmannah16:38
tilmanrendering is *much* faster now16:50
tilmanusing cairo16:50
treach\o/16:51
tilmanhttp://crux.nu/~tilman/idiot.diff16:51
tilmanif you want to test the *rendering speed*16:52
tilmanyou'll have to resize the window until you see all the contents16:52
tilman;D16:52
tilmannot quite finished16:52
treachheh16:52
tilmani don't know if that patch will work with poppler 0.5.4 bw16:53
treachit doesn't matter. :)16:53
treachhm, that patch didn't apply cleanly.16:55
treachI guess I'm behind the times. :/16:55
tilmanhead is e8ff9ad0234828d58e8b4cf81680b7650d6b43b316:56
tilmanbut don't fear!16:56
tilmanhttp://crux.nu/~tilman/rakt.git.tar.bz216:56
treachmh, did you intend to send the .git dir?16:59
tilmanyes16:59
tilmancause you can do everything with it16:59
tilmancd /tmp16:59
tilmanmkdir raktpdf16:59
tilmancd raktpdf16:59
tilmanbsdtar xf raktpdfgit.blah16:59
tilmanmv newdirectory .git16:59
tilmangit checkout master16:59
jaegerwhere should the poppler-data files go? /usr/share/poppler?17:00
jaegerlooks like it17:01
tilmanprobably17:01
tilmanthat's the default in Makefile17:01
jaegersince it wants to put them in /usr/local/share/poppler by default17:01
jaegerI'll go ahead and put poppler-data into opt17:07
tilmannice17:07
treachmh, the patch still partly fails. I must be doing something wrong.17:09
tilmanwhat's the first line of 'git log'?17:10
treachI should probably not play with this when I barely can keep my eyes open. :P17:10
treach Fixed an off-by-one error that enabled the "next" button on the last page.17:10
tilmanare you misreading the output of patch perhaps?17:11
tilmani don't see how the patch could fail o_O17:11
treachHunk #1 succeeded at 40 with fuzz 1 (offset 2 lines).17:11
treachHunk #2 succeeded at 143 (offset -7 lines).17:11
treachHunk #3 FAILED at 150.17:11
treachHunk #4 succeeded at 207 (offset -10 lines).17:11
treachHunk #5 FAILED at 230.17:11
tilmaneh17:11
treachpardon the spam.17:11
tilmancan you try:17:12
tilman$ git reset --hard17:12
tilman$ patch again17:12
treachokay.17:12
treachthat seems to work.17:13
tilmanvery strange17:13
tilmanupdated: http://crux.nu/~tilman/idiot2.diff17:13
tilmanworks as well as before the switch to the cairo stuff afaict17:13
treachdo I need to reset before I apply that one as well? :)17:13
tilmanyes17:14
tilmanit's not an incremental patch17:14
tilmani think zooming should be very easy to implement btw17:14
tilmanmaybe ~5 lines to request the zooming, and 200 to add the widgets17:14
treachugh...17:15
treachahem, that wasn17:15
treach't nice.17:15
treachapparently something went wrong. :/17:15
clbUpdate from opt: 5 Aug 22:10 - poppler-data: initial import, version 0.117:17
tilmanimpossible17:17
treachtilman: http://hem.bredband.net/treach/rakt.png17:18
jjpk:o17:19
treachthat's supposed to be lshort.pdf, btw.17:19
tilmanthat's idiot2.diff?17:19
jaegerthat's some nice rendering, there17:19
treachheh17:19
tilmanthis stupid raktpdf thing can't even read file names from the command line17:20
tilmantreach: does it magically fix itself when you switch pages around a bit?17:20
tilmanlshort.pdf works for me17:21
treachno, it'd doesn't fix itself.17:21
treachs it'd/it17:21
tilmanthe size of the window looks about correct17:21
tilmanso i wonder if this really is related to the changes between idiot.diff and idiot2.diff17:22
treachhmm, I haven't tried "idiot" yet, I was busy, so I went straight for nr217:24
treachbut if I hard reset to the original that file works, if I use the #2 patch it fucks up.17:24
tilmanyour copy of cairo is up to date?17:25
treachthe first one screws up too.17:25
tilmanpoppler 0.5.9, right?17:25
treachyes.17:25
tilmanand the latest gtk?17:25
treachafaik yes.17:26
treach(at least prt-get diff doesn't tell me there are any updates)17:26
tilmanokay, it wasn't updated recently i think17:27
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jaegerwow, no ndiswrapper port anymore?21:09
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Romsterany reason why wxgtk is not at current?23:12
Romsterand if it's not being maintained could it be droped so i can maintain it in contrib?23:14
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