IRC Logs for #crux-devel Tuesday, 2007-10-09

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Romstercan not clone iso.git04:12
Romstersays remote end needs a update04:12
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tilmanwhy do we even include objc support in core/gcc?06:09
clbUpdate from xorg: 9 Oct 10:50 - xorg-xf86-input-mouse: updated to
prologicwe don't need to06:27
prologicnothing afaik needs it06:27
prologicremove it and see if all of core/opt builds fine ?06:28
tilmansure it will06:28
tilmanwe're shipping it for people who'll use it anyway06:28
tilmanbut i'm not sure it's worth it :06:28
prologicwell that's my point06:28
prologicwho's really going to use it anyway ?06:28
prologicif the 0..0!% of people that want that feature ... well they can just recompile gcc ;006:29
tilmanthat was my point, too..06:29
prologicit's not terribly that hard06:29
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Romsteror have a add on package07:57
Romsteri vote for removal of objc out of gcc core08:01
jaegerno objections here, I've never once used it08:01
treachmh? gcc has objc? I thought that always had been left out..08:03
clbUpdate from opt: 9 Oct 13:00 - ncftp: updated to version 3.2.108:04
tilmanthe objc tarball is just 200 kb08:17
Romsterhmm guess it can stay then..08:18
prologicno remive it!08:18
jaegerCEST is UTC+2, right?08:18
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siphi everybody. is the irc meeting confirmed for tonight or shall we wait till friday so Antti can attend?08:51
tilmanyes, no08:52
tilmani'll respect his interests in my votes ;)08:52
Romsterhow many hours away is it *hates time zones*08:54
tilmanis it too hard to run "TZ=Europe/Berlin date"?08:54
jaegersip: hey :) either one is fine by me08:56
jaegertilman: I didn't know you could do that, actually :) neat08:56
jaegersip: did you ever see my patch to revdep, by chance?08:57
Romsteroh sweet didn't know that one for date.09:16
sipd'oh forgot I was on IRC09:23
sipjaeger, no09:23
sipdid you send it to my email?09:24
jaegerbut it's also here:
jaegerit just allows you to specify BINARY_PORTS=() in /usr/etc/revdep.conf and it will skip checking those09:25
jaegersuch as openoffice, jdk, jre09:25
siplooks good09:29
jaegerI didn't include a revdep.conf in the patch but it's a very simple file :)09:30
sipyeah :) we may want to provide a default .conf file with known 'offenders'09:31
jaegeryeah, couldn't hurt09:32
Romsterhow does things like firefox work with LD_PRELOAD=...09:32
Romsteror just skip them too.09:32
jaegerdon't skip them, they can actually be rebuilt if there's a problem09:32
jaegerjust want to skip ports we cannot rebuild09:32
jaegerso I just run it like so: RD_VERBOSE=2 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/firefox:/usr/lib/thunderbird revdep | tee revdeplist.txt09:33
RomsterLD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/{firefox,thunderbird} RD_VERBOSE=2 revdep | tee revdeplist.txt09:33
Romsteri do that and yet firefox still lists as errors09:33
Romsterthat's funky it expaned my {}09:34
jaegerLD_LIBRARY_PATH expects colon delimiters, right? not spaces?09:34
Romsteryes afaik09:35
sipaww crazy day at work, see you later.09:35
jaegertake care09:35
Romsterlater sip09:35
sipI will survive! ;-)09:35
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* Romster hears the abba song in my mind now09:36
jaegerthat was gloria gaynor, you heathen!09:36
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juejaeger: are you able to do a "print" or "print preview" with firefox without crash?12:42
* maro is not12:43
jaegerprint seems to work but not preview12:44
jueme too, need the patch from
jaegerok, I'll test it12:45
jaegerwhich patch is necessary?12:46
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juejaeger: atm I#m using that one
juehi sip12:48
juejaeger: which is the same as
juewhat a day, we have a irc meeting, gcc 4.2.2 released ...12:51
tilmanhi guys12:51
tilmanjue: yeah, i was getting all excited when i saw the announcement :D12:51
sipwhat's next? Per and Johannes back to CRUX'ing? :)12:52
juesip: very good idea, but more serious, what's to do to get a 2.4 release ready12:59
sipapart from re-bootstrapping with new gcc?12:59
tilmannuking system.git and importing jaeger's cd13:00
tilmanutf8 sucks13:00
tilmansh-compatible scripts suck13:00
tilman(where 'suck' means 'nobody got it done')13:00
juewe have a ticket from Falk wrt iso13:00
jueseems to be a trivial one13:01
jueI've already readded wvdial and rp-pppoe to the iso packages13:04
juesome other changes there ?13:04
jaegernone that I can think of off the top of my head13:04
tilmanjue: yes, i think i'll include xorg-xf86-video-radeonhd as an unsupported add-on13:04
sipI had some note...just a sec13:04
tilmansee hannes' thread13:04
clbUpdate from opt: 9 Oct 17:37 - fakeroot : update to 1.8.1 || 9 Oct 17:36 - samhain: update to 2.3.813:04
siponly found something about iproute2: needs some bump13:05
sipbut there was some reason we never included newer versions I cannot remember atm13:06
sip(apart from CRUX dying ofc)13:07
jaegerwas iproute2 the one that we needed to include prebuilt docs for?13:07
sipoh, that rings a bell13:07
jaegerI'll have to look at it again to remember, it's been too long13:08
sipI was so happy with our obsolete stack before 2.3. pfft, youngsters :)13:08
sipanyway it looks like a single port update, I think we can go on with other issues13:09
j^2hey all13:10
siphi j^213:10
j^2i know i'm not a dev but if it's ok i'd like to listen in and put my 2cents in where i can13:10
jaegersip: 2.6.22-070710 builds fine here, though it no longer has a top level source directory13:11
tilmanlet's figure out how to do the iso move13:11
jaegermight want to repackage that13:11
sipnice to know, thanks13:11
siptilman, iso move? to jaeger's version?13:12
tilmani suggest to clean out the current repo asap, and ask jaeger to import his13:12
jaegerperhaps we set the current repo aside rather than nuke it :)13:13
jaegerjust in case13:13
tilmani meant "git rm *"13:13
tilmanwe can tag the current status as pre-ziomg-everythings-new13:13
sipI vote for pre-death13:14
sipand 2.4 will be post-mortem13:14
jaegerok, the gtk fix seems to work for firefox, at least. any other apps that were causing problems?13:14
tilmansip: ahaha13:15
Viper_gtk and xfce work (after applying the patch)13:15
sipany plan on updating the kernel headers in glibc?13:16
mike_kI'm sorry to interrupt. what about removing rquota.h, rquota.x from glibc? in 2.413:16
sipalso, will we wait for 2.6.23?13:16
juewe are at 2.6.22 for the headers, I'd suggest to stick with them13:17
sipmike_k, do you happen to know if other distros remove them from glibc as well?13:18
tilmanneed to look at #154 though13:18
mike_ksip: see my comment in flyspray. I've searched a little on that topic back than...13:20
sipaww, missed the comments, sorry13:21
juemike_k: good point, did the nfs-utils/man-pages stuff already but not glibc13:21
mike_ksomeone may takeover the port for inclusion opt or I can add it to contrib after dealing with old headers13:22
mike_ks/opt/in opt/13:22
jueif we agree on that I'll remove the conflicting files from glibc and put mike_k's quota-tools port into opt?13:25
sipon the iso as well?13:25
juehmm, no13:27
mike_kbtw, I am unsure if the 'quota-tools' name is acceptable, or should it be just 'quota' (like the upstream tarball)13:27
tilmanstupid upstream people who use idiotic names for the packages %)13:28
tilmani'd go with 'quota'13:29
sip+1 for me too13:30
mike_kshould I rename it and update the README before you proceed?13:30
sipthat would speed things up a bit, thanks :)13:30
mike_kok, go on13:30
tilmanjaeger: is your updated cd the same as the netinst one, btw?13:33
jaegerboth isos are created from the same source13:33
jaegerso yes13:33
tilmanit should be possible to build one iso that can both install from cd and from the intarweb, no?13:34
tilmanat least in theory :D13:34
tilmanmaybe with two setup scripts (, as a first step13:34
jaegerjust include net-setup13:34
jaegercurrently they're setup and net-setup13:34
clbUpdate from opt: 9 Oct 18:19 - gtk: added patch for gdk_window_is_toplevel_frozen, see ...13:35
tilmanis that the one prologic was seeing?13:36
jaegercould be, I don't remember for sure13:36
jaegerover all, I'm quite happy with how the updated iso works13:42
sipgood good.13:43
jaegerthough I need to add a couple things off the top of my head13:43
jue20:00 < tilman> sh-compatible scripts suck -> do we find some volunteer to do that, tbh I don't realy care13:43
sipas tilman suggest, I think it's time to move it to git13:43
tilmani'll try to take a stab at it again later13:43
tilmandon't really have time for it atm13:43
jaegerthe ability to configure the usb device settling delay and also to spawn a shell if the root device can't be located, so the user can do it manually13:43
jaegerboth are trivial13:44
jaegeras for the sh-compatible scripts thing, I have zero preference either way13:44
treachtilman: I think I accidentally provoked brett into doing it last night. :P13:45
juejaeger: :-)13:45
sipoh, what about the syslogd suggested changes?13:45
jaegerI honestly don't care about it... bash doesn't bother me13:45
sipwrt bashism, I vote to delay changes / wait for user contributed patches13:46
tilmanyes, delay delay!13:46
tilmandon't let it hold off 2.413:46
jaegersip: are you referring to invoking syslog/klog from rc scripts instead of in rc? or replacing it due to bugs? I think he got his bugs sorted out13:47
jaegerI personally don't see a real need to replace it but I wouldn't mind it moving to rc scripts13:47
juesame here, I'd stick with syslogd13:48
sipok, but at least we could move it to make it easier to replace it13:49
sipthat opens some upgrade issue though13:49
juetilman: any response on your bug-report?13:50
tilmanwhich one? :o13:50
tilmanno, my patch has been ignored13:53
mike_kas crux-devel ML was almost silent about kde/gnome/xfce repos status ( any ideas so far?13:54
jaegerI can't speak for the others but the gnome repo doesn't belong in an official place13:56
jaegerit's not supported by anyone but me13:56
Romsteri'd like to report about prt-get 5.15-jw1-2 using the new cache feature is a huge speedup on searching. but there is a aditional minor bug too.13:57
Viper_hmm.. what do you think of adding support for easy disk encryption by cryptsetup using /etc/crypttab?13:58
juewrt syslogd, I think we should ahve a look at Brett's latest mail which includes a trivial patch,
mike_kjaeger: I know, but this situation does not allow to avoid ports duplication, for example. Rules can be twiked to allow contrib port be dependent on that repos as well. That is the only point.13:59
tilmanViper_: what's the downside to it?14:00
jaegerI don't see why it matters, honestly... ports duplication can be a good thing14:00
tilmanViper_: i think it means i'm asked for my passwords to decrypt the disks on boot time, right?14:00
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tilmanViper_: what's the con argument?14:00
Viper_it's work :)14:00
predatorfreaktilman: Did the meeting start without me?14:01
tilmanpredatorfreak: yes14:01
tilmanViper_: atm i don't miss that feature14:01
predatorfreaktilman: Damn my day sleep.14:01
tilmani've only got one encrypted partition with *cough* that i don't access that often :D14:01
predatorfreaktilman: Wasn't it supposed to start at 4PM? o.O14:01
Viper_no but if you want to encrypt all your partitions it would be nice to have such file14:01
tilmanpredatorfreak: "TZ=Europe/Berlin date"14:01
Viper_perhaps there's somebody who wants to do this :>14:02
siptime to create / assign some task in flyspray, I think14:02
tilmandoes anyone know whether we can nuke core/hotplug now that we have an up-to-date udev/14:02
Viper_i tried to encrypt the swap partiton during boot and that's only possible by editing /etc/rc14:02
juejaeger: agreed, I think the current situation is perfect, I don't wanna see xfce as an official repo. If we have important ports in that repos, which are needed otherwise as well, we can add to opt.14:03
sipit makes sense14:03
jaegertilman: probably... haven't tried14:04
jaeger096 didn't technically require it14:04
predatorfreakAlso, what's the current interest in my work on rc? I have a couple other things which might be worth merging, as well.14:04
tilmanViper_: well, this shouldn't go in 2.4, it's too late IMO14:04
tilmanpredatorfreak: sip created a bug for it14:05
Viper_yeah that's ok14:05
predatorfreaktilman: Yeah I know, but I never heard anything afterwords.14:05
predatorfreakI'm curious if it's actually going to get merged for 2.4 :\14:05
Viper_but it would be nice to have it in the future14:05
jaegerjue: that sums it up nicely, aye14:05
mike_kjue, jaeger: ok, I've got your point about that repos.14:06
jaegermike_k: sorry for the lack of response on the ML, I totally missed that I guess14:07
tilmanjaeger: btw, did you update the url to gnome.rsync in the database?14:07
tilmanso it points to the latest and greatest?14:07
jaegerViper_ did it for me14:08
mike_kjaeger: ah, forget about it. I thought it was on CRUX (Johannes') todo list some time ago...14:08
tilmanViper_: did you add that polish guy's repo to the db btw?14:08
tilmanforgot his name :o14:08
jaegermike_k: it might have been on someone's list but as maintainer of the gnome stuff, it wasn't on mine :)14:09
Viper_could be :) i added some people to the db last time14:09
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sipopinions on ?14:11
sip+1 for me14:11
predatorfreak+1 from me, obviously :P14:11
tilman+- 014:12
jueit's not a very generic solution, but I think we shouldn't open a big vat here, so +114:14
sipok, updating the task. btw, we should remember to put it into the release notes, or automatically update /etc/rc.conf with setup-helper14:15
tilmanyou mean put resolved task ids in the relnotes?14:16
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predatorfreakI also have some assorted other work lying here, but I'm not certain if it's worth merging for 2.4.14:17
sipno, I mean a not to manually edit rc.conf since it's not updated afair14:17
predatorfreakPrimarily, I added the ability to define the glibc locale to use to the init scripts and made them sh compliant.14:17
sip(it'd miss the SYSLOG var)14:17
predatorfreakand some other things which I'm certain wouldn't work for 2.414:18
predatorfreaksip: I can always add a quick little check, if it's undefined and /etc/rc.d/sysklogd exists, it could fallback.14:18
predatorfreakFor compatibility reasons.14:18
sipnah, I think it's better to avoid too much backward-compatible cruft14:19
predatorfreaksip: Well, fine by me.14:20
predatorfreakTo be honest, I agree ;)14:20
jueyep, I'll add a start-script to sysklogd, who will change the rc scripts?14:21
predatorfreakThe other stuff I did is here, along with the syslog patch:
RomsterViper_, while you're here can you change my ports database from httpup to rsync
sipI'll work on the rc port and eventually on setup-helper14:22
Romsterand i haven't spoted the australians blocked form's email server yet.14:22
predatorfreakjue: :)14:22
predatorfreakThat oughtta save you some work.14:22
juecool, thanks14:22
predatorfreakjue: No problem, happy to be of assistance.14:23
sipoh, little related with 2.4, anybody else annoyed by our own mail warnings (prtverify & friends)?14:24
tilmannot anymore ;)14:24
tilmansip: would you be opposed to patch java binaries with sed to work around the xcb problems?14:25
sipprocmail to the rescue?14:25
tilmanno, i've grown used to it ;)14:25
sipstill issues with update 3 of jdk/jre?14:26
tilmanbecause of those i had to disable the assertions in xcb14:28
sipyeah, patching just the offending app sounds like a better choice14:28
tilmani can't promise that it's only java though14:28
tilmanbut i'm willing to add the xcb hack again if other issues pop up14:29
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* tilman waves14:30
ximondaHi, there! It's me. Clemens Koller (crux-eppc)14:30
ximondaI don't want to confuse your discussions, being so late. So I'll just stay calm and listen.14:30
nullpointerhmm the last time /me-ed sth here14:30
siphi ximonda14:30
nullpointeri got kicked ximonda :-P14:30
predatorfreakximonda,nullpointer: Hell14:31
nullpointeryep i won't disturb either, i will listen for a while14:31
tilmansip: i'll send you a patch, then you can have a look and decide whether you like it or not14:32
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siptilman, great, thanks14:33
tilmani've got another big issue14:33
tilmananother mind if we put "We're not dead yet." in the upcoming release announcement?14:33
nullpointertilman i think acrux tried all your recent ports of xorg on the ibook14:34
nullpointermaybe he has some feedback...14:34
predatorfreaktilman: You could always just say "We have a dedicated necromancer on hand, just in-case."14:34
siphehe fine for me14:34
nullpointerare you talking about the huge flame in the list?14:34
nullpointerwhen do you plan to release 2.4?14:35
ximondaI wouldn't worry about "CRUX 'n' being dead" crap.14:35
tilmanjaeger: okay, let's aim at merging the iso this weekend14:35
ximondaMaybe it's so calm because there are no issues to worry about?14:35
tilmanand try to put out an early test iso for the brave shortly after14:35
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tilmanto see how well gcc 4.2.2 works14:35
ximondaTilman: Any release schedules for gcc-4.2.2?14:36
ximonda4.2.1 works fine for me.14:36
tilmanit was released earlier today14:36
jaegertilman: ok by me14:36
nullpointerright after acrux ended stage2 build :-/14:37
nullpointerhaha murphy's law14:37
ximondatilman: Great... I'll just have to pick it up.14:37
tilmanjaeger, sip: who of you had the most contact with charlie so far? :>14:38
jaegerI've had nearly none recently14:39
sipmmmh, only talked to him once on IRC afair14:40
sipbut that was loooong ago14:40
tilmani thought one of you was his primary contact :D14:40
tilmanoh well14:40
sipwell technically yes (infra-team anyone?), but I never had the needing to hear from him lately14:40
ximondaThe openssl-0.9.8 build issues with gcc-4.2.x should have been fixed also.14:41
ximondaopenssl-0.9.8-stable-SNAP-20071008 built fine yesterday.14:41
predatorfreakThere's build issues?14:41
predatorfreakI know there's runtime issues, but not build issues o.O14:41
ximondapredator: I think they are related.14:41
ximondapredator: And I think it not only applies to ppc.14:42
predatorfreakWell, it's always built fine here, just everything using libssl/crypto would crash if built with gcc 4.2.X14:42
tilmansip: re. the smtp vs australia issues; i'll mail him once more and see whether i can get a reaction14:43
ximondapredatorfreak: Well, check the latest Snapshots. Release should be out in a couple of weeks.14:43
juewe have the gcc-4.2 patch in our 2.4 branch14:43
predatorfreakBut iirc, jue fixed that forever ago.14:43
tilmanat this point i'm kinda annoyed that he ignored me so far (one mail, several irc pings ;D)14:43
ximondapredatorfreak: Well... I'll have to check that on x86 again.14:46
tilmando we have any other open issues?14:46
predatorfreakWell, unless you guys need me for anything, I'm gonna go grab some "breakfast" and do my "morning" tasks.14:47
predatorfreakGotta stop going to sleep at 6AM :)14:47
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siptilman, thanks14:50
sipnow that you remind me, I think he never answered my mails too14:50
tilmancptn told me that people could use gmane to post to the list14:51
tilmanbut imo that should be a last resort14:51
tilmanalthough it's very embarassing that we didn't sort it out by now :x14:51
prologicyeah get it fixed already :/14:52
* prologic hates not being able to mail the list14:52
sipyeah, looks like we have something against aussies :)14:52
treachY U don't type properly?14:53
tilmansip: i think if mail fails again i'll ask one of our swedish users to send him a snail mail letter :D14:53
prologictilman, I'm tleling you it has again and again :)14:54
prologicthe list is sending me mail saying my accounts are  disabled becuase of excessive bounces14:54
tilmanhas what?14:54
sipoooh, I got the secret email addy14:54
prologicI send a reply back to re-enable it and that bounces!14:54
tilmanyou tell me that now14:55
prologicbecause it can never reach the damn mail server :/14:55
prologicno tilman it's the same issue14:55
tilmanprologic: can you post the mail somewhere?14:55
prologicjust has never been fixed yet14:55
prologicI had to get jaeger to subscribe me just to receive the mails14:55
prologicno aussie can send though still14:55
tilmanupload that text somewhere please14:55
prologic8B3391A80C5     2223 Mon Oct  8 19:51:35
prologic              (connect to[]: Connection timed out)14:56
prologic                                         crux-devel-request@lists.crux.nu14:56
prologicit's not a bounce14:56
prologicjust a connection time out14:56
prologicmost of our major networks here just cannot communicate with the mail server at crux.nu14:57
prologicI've always believed it to be a (too strict) firewall issue14:57
treachthihih, everyone knows all that comes from asia is just spam anyway. :P14:57
* prologic slaps treach 14:57
tilmanprologic: that's not a crappy dialup ip?14:58
tilmani'll assume it's not14:59
prologicwhat, my mail server ?14:59
tilmanthe one talking to lists.crux.nu14:59
prologic(in this case - my mail servers) - hell no14:59
prologicthey sit on 2 /19 blocks14:59
prologicI've run all the tests before (months  ago)15:00
prologicseveral major networks (I mean backbone networks) just simply cannot communicate with the mail server at at all15:00
tilmanRomster: what's the ip of your mailserver (the one who's talking to
prologicconfirmed by myself, rxi, nipul, Rosmter and several remote servers15:01
prologicI think he uses
sipgoing offline in a few minutes. any other 2.4 related task we should discuss about? Oh, any idea regarding est. release date?15:05
tilmansip: two to three weeks, depending on how well the test isos work out? :)15:06
juefor a first test release?15:06
tilmanweekend + asap15:06
prologictilman, what xorg are we shipping with ?15:06
prologictilman, and what ver of gtk ?15:06
tilmancurrent, seee opt.git15:07
prologicihmo that's a bad idea ;/15:07
tilmansee opt.git ffs15:07
Romstertilman, sv12.per.eftel.com15:07
prologicsorry I only update nightly :)15:07
prologicone sec15:07
jueso we skip the utf-8/sh-comp. thing for now?15:08
jueok, fine15:08
prologicahh it's patched in opt ?15:09
tilmanyes :]15:09
prologicgood good15:09
prologicxorg 7.3 is still a big buggy though :/15:10
prologicmine will crash completely and bail back out to the console every now and again15:10
prologicusually overnight15:10
Romsteri've not had xorg die yet...15:10
Romsterand on binary nvidia15:10
* Romster shrugs15:10
Romsterjust the rechered keyboard leds mainly capslock and numpad i'd like to be working again.15:11
Romsterwhen xorg fixes that.15:11
sipregarding iso.git, wouldn't be better to create a dedicated branch instead of replacing 2.4?15:11
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tilmansip: what i had in mind is to use jaeger's iso for 2.4, so putting it in the 2.4 branch seems okay to me15:32
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ximondaIs it actually planned to have the network up and sshd running on the CRUX-x86 2.4 (live-)CD?15:34
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thrice`tilman: might need to adjust the paths in which it downlaods packages from in net-setup15:36
sipjust tought it would look nicer regarding code history, but you're the scm meister, everything's ok to me :)15:36
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ximondarehi pedatorfreak: Can't sleep?15:37
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predatorfreakximonda: I didn't go back to sleep.15:42
predatorfreakI went, ate and washed up :)15:42
tilmansip: mmh. maybe we'll do that15:43
sipgoing to sleep, good night everybody15:47
ximondapredatorfreak: Now, I see...15:47
ximondacu, simone!15:47
predatorfreaksip: Night.15:47
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predatorfreakSleep well.15:48
predatorfreakToo late.15:48
tilmansame here15:48
* tilman disappears :p15:48
ximondaok. ciao, tilman.15:48
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ximondaOkay... I'll take off also.15:53
ximondaNice meeting you!15:53
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Romsterrm: cannot remove `/home/romster/iso/system/iso.git/ports/core/coreutils/work/pk22:32
Romsterg/usr/bin/su': No such file or directory22:32
Romster=======> ERROR: Building '/usr/ports/packages/coreutils#6.9-1.pkg.tar.gz' failed22:32

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