IRC Logs for #crux-devel Tuesday, 2007-12-18

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clbUpdate from opt: 18 Dec 11:36 - sshfs-fuse: update to 1.9 || 18 Dec 11:29 - fuse: update to 2.7.2 || 18 Dec 11:28 - cups: update to 1.3.506:03
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jaeger-anyone have any trouble with the rc2 iso?08:10
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pitilloomg, was it released? brbrbrbr08:11
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clbUpdate from opt: 18 Dec 14:53 - popt: updated to version 1.1309:03
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pitillowho has hosted the rc2 iso?10:29
pitillojaeger, sorry, I must re-read log files, thank you for that link. Btw, how many time did you spend finally to build it?10:32
jaegernot sure, honestly. I had to restart it 3 times because that machine was messing up for some reason10:32
pitilloumm ok. I will try to make some tests tomorrow if there is enought time (but if your point about xorg was fixed, I think it will be a good rc)10:34
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jaegerI did test that, it was fixed :)10:37
clbUpdate from opt: 18 Dec 17:53 - eclipse-sdk: updated to
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clbUpdate from opt: 18 Dec 20:55 - poppler-data: updated to version 0.2.0 || 18 Dec 20:53 - poppler: updated to version 0.6.315:04
tilmanjaeger: does rc2 include my libarchive bump and those xorg updates?16:36
tilmanjaeger: if so, i think we should publically announce it, no?16:36
jaegerxorg yes, libarchive no. I will happily build a new iso if you want that in16:41
tilmani'd say it's important enough to warrant a rebuild16:42
tilmanthough it's been working great here16:42
treachany known problems with rc1? :>16:43
treach(haven't found any so far. :p )16:43
tilmansetup.dependencies was busted16:44
treachok. I didn't install a lot of stuff, so I guess I avoided that16:44
treachgrr, clock still one hour off. I feel stupid. ;(16:46
tilmanis etc/localtime set correctly? :P16:47
treach /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/UTC16:48
tilmanbut but16:48
tilmansweden just isn't in UTC16:49
tilmanuse Europe/Stockholm16:49
treachyeah, I just realized.16:49
treachI did this very late last night.16:49
treachI must have missed changing the timezone16:49
treach"dumstrut på"16:50
treachok, thanks tilman. hopefully things work out a bit better now. :P16:51
jaegerthere's an rc2 if you want to try it but I'm about to start an rc3 build anyway16:56
tilmani'll try rc3 the day after tomorrow16:59
tilmanwon't have time earlier anyway16:59
treachI think I'll wait until I get kvm up and running.16:59
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treachwhich probably won't happen until the question is moot anyway. :/17:00
tilmanisn't qemu + kqemu fast enough? ;p17:01
treachnah, that's not the problem. I'll be out of town from the 20th, and won't be back until early january.17:01
treachso, no #crux christmas for me this year :)17:03
treachI'll spare you guys a thought though. :)17:03
jaegertilman: any changes I need to make or has libarchive already been tweaked?17:03
tilmanit's all in the 2.4 branch17:05
tilman<3 treach17:05
jaegerok, great17:06
jaegernew build started17:06
tilmanexcelelnt :)17:07
jaegerit occurs to me we'll need to update the release date in the changelog and rebuild the iso but that won't require a bootstrap17:07
tilmandang, i forgot to bump libarchive in the changelog17:09
jaegerI'll rebuild the iso with the fixed changelog anyway, no big deal there17:09
tilmanjaeger: sorry, i didn't push libarchive yet :(17:11
tilmanjust did it now17:11
jaegerwell, the bootstrap technically hasn't started, it's building the kernel. I'll update my wc17:11
tilmansorry about that, i was sure i t landed on already17:12
jaeger2.4.8 is the proper one?17:12
tilmani'm also updating changelog now17:13
treach"I'll update my wc" ;D17:13
treachQOTD? :p17:13
tilmanworking copy!17:13
jaegerwhy QOTD?17:14
treachjaeger: I think it's too early for you still to find it funny. :p17:14
treachtiredness works like alcohol they say. I'm prepaired to sign on that.17:15
treachIOW, sorry, forget it. :)17:15
jaegerit's 17:15 here :) but I'll just pretend I know what you're talking about, heh17:15
jaegeror maybe we've already moved on to water closet jokes and I missed the call :)17:19
treachyeah. :)17:19
jaegervery rarely used term here17:20
treachI'm sorry, slept badly the last few days and have a bad cold, so I forgive me I'm a bit silly, please. :)17:20
treachquite common term here17:21
jaegerno worries :)17:21
jaegerPowerPath is driving me nuts17:42
treachah, enterprize stuff. :>17:44
treachstuff like that usually seem to have that as a primary design goal. :p17:44
jaegerI'm starting to think so17:44
jaegerhell... my database backups are PISSED17:47
jaegerRMAN> report obsolete;17:47
jaegerusing target database controlfile instead of recovery catalog17:47
jaegerRMAN retention policy will be applied to the command17:47
jaegerRMAN retention policy is set to recovery window of 7 days17:47
jaegerSegmentation fault17:47
jaegerhave I bagged on oracle today? :)17:48
treachnot what I know, but it's not too late yet17:49
jaegerindeed not17:49
jaegerfuck oracle in its goddamn eye17:49
jaegerI feel marginally better17:50
treachenterprize means "catastrophically complicated and misdesigned" ime. :/17:50
jaegerthis is one of those days when I agree17:50
treachoracle, sap, TCE, etc. I haven't touched anything of that kind that didn't seem to be cursed.17:51
treachFYI tce is a content management system that is used company wide by GM among others.17:52
* jaeger adds it to the "to be avoided" list17:52
* jaeger starts a new backup17:57
treachgood luck. :)17:58
jaegerheading home now, back later17:58
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treachtilman: still awake?18:36
treachI'm a bit curious about bsd tar.18:37
treachIt seemed you were keen on kicking out gnu-tar in favour of it, correct?18:37
treachI was just curious about it's precived advantages, since you said something about it being "much better" earlier.18:43
tilmanoops, forgot you asked a question18:46
tilman"bsdtar xf archive.*" just works18:46
tilmanno fiddling with -z, -j18:46
Romsterwhy not 's tar'?18:46
tilmanit can handle zip, too18:46
tilmantreach: they say it's also faster than gnu tar18:46
tilmanRomster: star is a schily product, therefore it sucks (except maybe on solaris)18:47
Romstersounds like bsdtar is the way to go then.18:47
Romsterit's anoying remembering what archve flags to use to filter it though.18:48
Romsteranything else that's better?18:48
Romsterin bsdtar18:48
treachtilman: oh, I didn't know you could omit the j or z flags.18:49
treachas for speed, it's marginal, according to my extremely unscientific testing.18:49
treachlike 4 seconds for untaring the firefox sources to a tempfs18:50
treachdifference that is18:50
tilmanmmh ok18:50
treachstill, it would be less bloat on the iso. ;)18:51
treachit's gotten fatty with time, not sure what happened...18:52
treachcrux got middle aged? :>18:52
tilmanshould remove xorg from the iso :>18:52
Romsteroh yeh i was gonna ask are we gonna go with a smaller sh than bash for the scripts and keep bash for just some of the bigger stuff maybe.18:53
Romsteri did see tcsh in core repo.18:53
Romsterjaeger's netinstall should be on the download if someone wants a basic install or maybe just a core only install cd18:54
Romsternet install and the main iso, in my opinion.18:54
Romsterjaeger, your net install could do with the ping command.18:54
treachwell, once crux was a 180MB download. now it's like 250, I wonder what happened.18:54
Romsterxorg made it bigger.18:55
tilmanlots of tiny packages18:55
Romsterremove all but core and see how small the iso is.18:55
Romsterlike some want to download the cd but have a bare system i guess for like a file server.18:55
treachRomster: I don't mind it being 250MB as such, I just wonder what happened.18:56
treachbtw I'd like *more* stuff included, like the manpages18:57
Romsterthere are some man pages missing and i arn't keen in the info ... crap.18:57
Romsteri'd like to move any info ... to man pages.18:57
treachusing mdadm or mkfs.ext3 without the manpages available isn't that fun.18:58
Romsteri found a nice site but ti's debian man pages..
Romsterso it's got the old gcc 3 and stuff but is handy for most pages.18:59
sepenohh sorry18:59
Romsterso treach mkfs.ext3 is missing it's man page?19:00
Romsterthat should be addressed before the 2.4 final release if that's the case.19:00
treachNo, but it's not available during the part of the installation where you format your partitions.19:00
treachwhich is when you'd really need it..19:01
Romsterright man pages on the cd.19:01
treachsame for mdadm etc.19:01
Romsteryep wehn you really need it the most it should be there to use.19:01
treachjaeger: got an opinion on that?19:04
Romstertreach, e2fsprogs has man pages..19:05
Romsterso they should be on the cd?19:05
treachif you're likely to use it before you chroot, why not?19:06
jaegersorry, semi-AFK cooking dinner. what am I having an opinion on? mkfs.ext3 manpage missing?19:06
tilmani've got a man page for mkfs.ext3 ;)19:06
treachno, making some of the manpages available while running from the cd19:06
jaegerpersonally I don't think the man pages are needed on the CD19:06
Romsterusr/man/man8/mkfs.ext3.8.gz -> mke2fs.8.gz19:06
jaegerthere are plenty of resources on the net19:06
treachwell, if your installation isn't that far yet?19:07
Romstermdadm man page i think should be on the cd, unless you can run a browser off the cd and look and have a net connection at the time.19:07
treachyou're just booted, and about to bring up "fdisk" or so.19:07
treachyou do not have a browser.19:07
treachyou do not have any ports19:08
treachbut you want to use mkfs.X or mdadm for instance.19:08
Romstermkfs is on the cd ?19:08
Romstermdadm won't be as it's in opt.19:08
treachRomster: shut up.19:09
treachsome of the ports in opt is on the cd.19:09
Romstere2fsprogs is on the cd and the .footprint has man pages so i don't know wtf you on about about e2fsprogs.19:09
treachI'm not "on about" anything.19:10
treachit's you who are incoherent19:10
Romsterhmm unless... that man page is in the archive and not accessable directly on the cd. is that what your geting at?19:11
Romsterbut it has to be installed on the cd to use it.19:11
treachIt's not accessible util AFTER you have formatted and set up your disks.19:12
Romsterright that's a issue.19:12
Romstershould be accessable before.19:12
treachAm I that unclear?19:12
treachI've been trying to say that from the very beginning.19:12
Romstereasy enough with the ram disk extract all man pages from all archives and install to the ramdisk?19:13
Romsteri didn't understand..19:13
treachthat's an ugly workarond, not a solution.19:13
Romsterthe program is on the cd didn't think that the man pages were not accessable untill after. i was expecting to type man mk2fs.ext3 an get the page.19:13
Romsterit would allow any added package to have man pages accessable instead of having to manually do it.19:14
treachanyway, I didn't mean to press for the inclusion of the manpages, I was just trying to point out that there is a discomfort zone that is pretty uneccessary19:14
treachWhat manual page do you want?19:15
Romsterit would be nice to see man pages to stuff that you use to setup a system yes.</ends that topic>19:15
treach-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 39K Dec 18 01:27 /usr/bin/man19:16
treachplus a few selected manpages.19:16
Romsterand we need criteria on what goes in and what dosn't.19:17
Romsterdisk operation stuff man pages should be in the install cd to use.19:17
Romsterand network setup like pppoe etc.19:17
treachsounds reasonable to me.19:18
Romsterthena gain that's after, unless you use the net install cd19:18
jaegerI always have another machine around when I'm installing so it doesn't really affect me... but I can see how many would probably find it useful19:18
treachsure, but I don't think a few manpages will make us run out of space19:18
jaegernot at all19:19
Romsteri actually installed crux 2.1 with no other machine around me.19:19
treachjaeger: that wasn't directed to you. :)19:19
jaegerdidn't matter, I still agree :)19:19
treachRomster: I'm not saying it can't be done. but it's a pita.19:19
treachespecially if you're not familliar with the tools you're using.19:20
Romsterit'll be handy if you forget something.19:20
Romsterlike wht was that argument switch again.19:20
Romsterso any man page for disk and network setup should be on the install cd.19:21
treachthat's not for us to decide.19:21
Romsterwe can still add it as a feature request.19:22
Romsteron the bug tracker.19:22
treachI merely wanted to raise the issue, since I've been in the position to set up a raid system with only "help" functionality of mdadm available.19:22
treach*the help*19:22
treachit works, but the manpage would have been godsend.19:23
Romsterk so add in a feature request on the bug tracker to that extent and mark it as critical for 2.419:23
Romsterthat's what i would do.19:23
treachunless we can get someone here interested, I don't think that will help. :)19:23
Romsterwell all things related to for 2.4 final release should be closed on the bug tracker imo.19:24
treachanyways, it's way late here. I should go to bed.19:24
treachanyway. good night.19:24
jaegertake care19:24
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Romsterjaeger, any opinions. tilman still here or you away as your status is.19:25
jaegeralready shared mine above19:27
Romsterand are we still moving to a smaller sh and i see tcsh in core repo.19:29
jaegerI dunno that that was ever decided on19:30
Romsteri read discussions on it but i've not seen the outcome.19:31
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Romsterwell if trench hasn't added the feature request i'll add it to the bug tracker.19:34
Romsteri think it's a nice but simple thing.19:42
Romsterbtw which sh was the small but fast one.. was it zsh?19:43
Romsteri read someware one ran alot faster than bash did.19:43
Romsterso init scripts would run alot faster.19:43
Romsterbut i also read it needs arrays var=() to be turned into var=""19:44
jaegerI think it was dash19:45
Romsterdebian related...19:46
RomsterThis shell was ported from NetBSD's ash19:47
Romsterlooks like the one.19:47
Romsterhasn't been touched in 2 years acording to freshmeat19:48
Romster13-Jul-2007 on the site.19:50
Romsterhmm freshmeat info is stale19:50
Romsteri'll mess with dash in a chrrot sometime. but right now i got alot of packages still to test and fix.19:52
Romsterfor 2.419:52
Romsteryou might wanna try it dash for a later crux-test.iso maybe?19:57
jaegerthe initramfs already uses a small shell, the busybox ash19:59
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Romsterdone speed comparasions between ash dash and bash?20:02
Romsterbbs geting lunch20:04
Romsterbe really intersed between dash and ash mainly but a comprasion to bash. wonder how one would test such a thing.20:05
jaegerno idea... I've never found a reason to use something other than bash in daily work20:07
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