IRC Logs for #crux-devel Wednesday, 2008-01-23

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clbUpdate from core: 23 Jan 10:33 - coreutils: update to 6.10 || 23 Jan 10:30 - automake: update to 1.10.104:50
clbUpdate from opt: 23 Jan 10:28 - fakeroot: update to 1.9.104:50
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* jaeger starts making updated ISOs again09:07
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treachjaeger: ping13:24
jaegerpong13:31
treachis it too late to nag for raid 5 to be included on the new updated iso? =)13:32
treach(I looked in the log. :P )13:32
treachAnyway, if you've got a link you can count in tester #1 :)13:33
jaegerI haven't finished building the packages for the updated one, a kernel change is easy to make... but that's already gone in anyway13:34
jaegeryou've already tested the e1 iso, right?13:35
treachyeah.13:35
treachAt least I didn't hit any problems with it.13:35
jaegerhrmm... I wonder what happened to gtk 2.12.413:36
treachmmh, it's not listed at gtk.org at least.13:37
jaegerseems they've moved the downloads to gnome.org13:37
jaegerI see .12.5 and .12.4 there13:37
treachoh.13:37
jaegerodd but whatever13:38
treachoh, right, as romster also pointed out, lvm would be much a appreciated addition as well.13:46
jaegeryeah, probably useful13:47
treachif not this time, maybe next?13:47
treachI'm really not trying to heap work on top of you, just figured this might be a good time to ask about these things.13:48
jaegerpretty easy to add13:49
treachI'd be most grateful. :)13:49
jaegermy bootstrap stopped anyway because it couldn't find the gtk source13:49
treachow, ok13:49
jaegerwould be nicer if lvm2 were in opt rather than contrib13:52
clbUpdate from opt: 23 Jan 19:59 - gtk: updated to version 2.12.514:23
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Romsterjaeger, i'd be happy if you took over lvm2 and ndiswrapper and included them both on the iso.15:59
Romsterand that one missing package i told you that prologic said should be on the iso for wifi cards.15:59
jaegerI don't use either of them enough to maintain them, probably16:02
jaegerstill don't know which package that was... wpa_supplicant?16:02
Romsterhmm wasn't that.16:05
Romsterthat's on the cd already16:06
Romsterah there it is, madwifi prologic ws wanting on the cd for alot of wifi cards use that.16:07
sepenimo all x-related packages should be in the same repo => xopt (imho)16:07
Romsterand how can someone get on the net to download without the driver <<16:07
Romstersepen, yeah them 2 in opt should be moved to xorg imo.16:08
sepenxorg is not a good name16:08
Romsterbut there not xorg? so maybe not.16:08
sepenxorg is a dedicated repo16:08
Romsteryes it is..16:08
treachRomster: the eth, or some usb-> eth adapter?16:08
sepenopt in this moment are ports maintained by core devels which are optional for a crux installation16:10
sepenbut it contains a lot of useful and esential ports for installations16:10
sepeni.e drivers etc etc16:10
sepenbut its only my personal opinion16:11
treachwhich drivers that are *essential* for installation are you refering to?16:11
sepenalsa-lib*16:11
Romsterwell i got 2 ports that i added to contrib, well i took over maintainer of one and even mike said i could take over the kvm one too as he has no real way to test i only emailed mike for a verion bump and a missing dependency, i have no way of testing but i took over them as a service for others.16:11
sepennvidia16:12
treachsepen: you should reasses your view on essentiality, if the computers ability to make noises go there. ;)16:13
sepenxD16:13
sepenIm thinkg on server installations16:13
treachalso, nvidia cards usually works with the nv driver.16:13
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treachwhy would 3d out of the box be essential? :/16:14
sepentreach, i.e apache its a good 'opt' candidate for me, but not scorched3d16:14
treachservers need alsa and nvidia?16:14
sepenor znes, eclipse-sdk16:14
sepenetc etc16:14
sepentreach, not in that case16:15
sepenbut wireless-tools?16:15
sepenmy comment about nvidia > /dev/null16:15
treachdon't know about that, not my decision to start with..16:15
sepenyeah, was only my personal opinion16:15
treachbut I'd argue wlan isn't essential for installation.16:16
treachI could be wrong though.16:16
sepentreach, apache?16:16
treachno.16:16
treachnothing stops you from getting it once the system is up16:16
sepenpff treach then install only core packages16:16
treachsepen: I don't quite think were on the same page.16:17
sepentreach, are you according with the actual collection of opt packages=16:18
sepen?16:18
sepen*according to16:18
treachanyway, I was just talking about lvm (and the raid 5 driver) because _not_ having them aavailable during install time is a major PITA sometimes.16:18
sepenyeah, in that case this port its a good candidate for opt (imo)16:19
treachagreeing you mean? No, I don't agree with lvm being left out in the cold, for instance16:19
Romsterfrom what i've read i'd like to see: raid 5, ndiswraper, madwifi, lvm2 included on the cd.16:19
Romsterapache isn't essental and be wise to leave that out for a possable security issue. with a old verison.16:20
Romsternot hard to get once the network and hard disk is accessable.16:20
sepenRomster, there are more port that should left out first imo16:20
Romsteroh and man pages on the install cd to read!16:20
Romsteranyways my 2 cents worth.16:25
Romsteractually i can't see a reason for including cvs on the cd.16:34
treachfile a bug about it for 2.5 then. :>16:37
treachnot much will come from *us* discussing it anyway16:38
sepenyeah16:51
Romsterif it's gotta be done that way like politics then so be it.16:52
treachIt doesn't have anything with politics to do. It's just that we have no say, really. All we can do is give suggestions.16:54
treachofc, your right in a way, it *is* like politics in some sense. Like we may file motions or make petitions, and if we're dissatisfied we're free to support some other entiety that matches our ideas better.17:06
treachbot otoh, I don't think that's what you meant.17:06
Romsterit was about that yes.17:10
Romsterone or two people isn't enought to chage a decision no mater how logical it may be.17:10
Romsterenough*17:10
Romsterchange*17:10
treachmatter*17:10
treach;)17:10
Romsterhas to be put to the 'board of directorys' so to speak, the core team.17:11
Romsterdang.17:11
Romsterdirectors*17:15
Romsteranyways i'll stick it on flyspray and see what happens.17:15
Romsteri gotta do soemting about sip too his ports are going stale.17:15
Romsterso bug tracker time today.17:16
jaegerlogical is entirely subjective, of course17:16
Romsterwell if oyu can not use the internet or access your hard disk what use is the install cd?17:16
jaegerI agree on hard disks but not internet. it's not necessary to install crux17:17
treachwell, logical would be what is the most rational course of action. And that depends on what the premises are.17:18
jaegeralso, have you seen any instance of lacking hard disk support where we said "fuck off, we aren't doing that" ?17:19
jaegernot as far as I know17:19
treachjaeger: was that meant for me?17:19
jaegerno, for romster17:19
treachok, just making sure.17:20
jaegerRomster: you make it sound like we're out to get you or something17:20
Romstereh maybe i'm looking at the wrong perspective.17:23
jaegerI can't speak for all the devs but I personally have a limited amount of time... I try to do what I can but it's not always enough and not always something everyone agrees on17:24
treachhaha, have a good look in the garden Romster.17:24
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treachmaybe you'll find some core-team assassin out there among the roses. :P17:24
treachjaeger: I know your dilemma, which is one of the reasons I try to keep my suggestions modest.17:26
treachalso, one of the reasons I usually try to squelch too unreasonable stuff whenever I get a chance. :p17:27
treach(like "gui installer" wtf?)17:27
jaegerthe biggest problem with any suggestion is the mass acceptance issue, as well. a feature one person absolutely loves might piss off 5 others. generally as distro maintainers we try to strike a balance of the most content people we can17:28
jaegerthe only way absolutely everyone could be made happy would be for absolutely everyone to make their own distro17:29
jaegerwhich clearly isn't gonna happen :)17:29
treachmmh, maybe, but for crux it seems like "ROI" is the critical thing, at least IMO.17:29
treachMeaning, there are useful things that could be done, but it simply won't happen because it's too much work.17:30
jaegerthat's entirely possible, yes, and will always be a side effect of purely voluntary systems like this :/17:31
treachat least if the number of volunteers is as limited as in this case.17:32
jaegergoing to meet some friends for dinner, be back later17:37
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Romsterhmm time is a major factor.17:49
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Romster@seen sip21:38
clbRomster: sip was last seen in #crux-devel 7 weeks, 6 days, 8 hours, 15 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <sip> yeah, I'm always lucky with this kind of things21:38
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