IRC Logs for #crux-devel Thursday, 2008-02-07

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acrux_did someone have success using rss for crux news?02:20
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RomsterThe page "News/RecentChanges" doesn't exist.03:30
Romsterhmmz got that after thating off the ? bit on the end.03:30
acrux_hi Romstar03:34
acrux_thanks, but in that manner i've all changes03:34
acrux_not the only NEWS03:35
acrux_or maybe there is'nt a NEWS tag?03:35
Romsterhi acrux_03:37
acrux_hi :)03:37
Romsteri'm not sure really, all i now is it says 404 not found03:37
acrux_mmh, maybe is not implemented... only git rss03:38
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Romsterhi jtnl you'd get more chatting in #crux12:20
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nipuL...still waiting for contrib access16:50
Romsterguess there discussing it16:58
nipuLgiven i have commit access to opt, you'd think the same would apply to contrib17:00
nipuLheh, i'm already marked as a maintainer for some ports there17:01
nipuLi hope twisted and zope don't break or need to be updated :)17:02
Romsterwell til_man i've asked to get opt access and i'm wating if it'll get accepted or not with the dev's.17:03
Romsteri can update them on your behalf if need be or drop them and you put them in opt if you don't get contrib access.17:03
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nipuLi don't think they're really opt material17:05
Romsterhmm true.17:05
Romsteri have a few ports that really should be in opt, so that's why i asked if i could get opt access.17:06
Romsterlvm2 ndiswrapper tcl tk scrot cmake look like good candidates for opt.17:09
Romsterpreload ddrescue maybe too not sure what else.17:11
Romsterhmm masqmail has a issue with conflicts..17:12
Romstersepen, i've tidied up texex in my repo but i have a feeling in the process i broke it.17:13
Romstercare to try it?17:13
Romsteri had to even uninstall it and the one from opt to get libdvdcss to even compile.17:14
Romsteri tryed the opt one after mine.17:14
Romstercame up with a diferent error.17:14
sepenI like your Pkgfile style17:14
sepenseems clean and nice uses of 'find'17:15
sepen# temp fix, this tools tries to write in real root17:16
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nipuLisn't that what fakeroot is for?17:17
Romsteralso i was trying to conbine the two find sets as it says in the man page for find that you can do more than one match while only recursively going though the files once, but i haven't been able to get it to work.17:17
Romsterfakeroot blocks writing outside of PKG17:17
Romsternot everyone is using fakeroot.17:18
nipuLRomster: you can usr -or, -and17:18
nipuLfind also reads brackets17:18
RomsternipuL, but for two sets like type -d then another set of -type f17:18
Romsteri added brackets for each group i failed.17:18
Romsteralso i thnk it was either a . or , to seperate each set i tryed both17:19
nipuL \( -type d -name 'foo' \) -or \( -type f -name 'bar' \)17:19
nipuLiirc you need to escape the brackets17:19
Romsteri did escape the brackets <<17:19
Romsterbut i didn't try -or between the two sets.17:20
Romsterin the find man page under operators17:21
Romsterexpr1 , expr217:21
RomsterThe comma operator can be useful for  searching  for several  different types of thing, but traversing the filesystem hierarchy only once.17:22
Romsternow i did that and failed..17:22
RomsternipuL,  more like that i tryed \( -type d \( -name 'foo' -o -name 'bar' \) \) , \( -type f \( -name 'foo' -o -name 'bar' \) \)17:24
Romsterto me that's what the manual says todo..17:24
nipuL \( -type d \( -name 'foo' -o17:25
nipuL                -name 'bar' \) \)17:25
nipuLare you sure that's right?17:25
Romsternot sure that's what i tryed todo.17:25
Romsterlook in the Pkgfile ^17:25
nipuLhow about (-type d -and (-name foo -or -name bar))17:25
Romsterbrackets must be escaped or bash rreads it as a sub shell.17:26
nipuLyes i know, i was not escaping for brevity17:27
Romsteri got an idea but i'll try it after i build firefox.17:27
nipuLso... tomorrow17:28
Romsterit discards the fist expr which means i need to do the check then go on to the next coma list.17:28
Romsternah alter today.17:28
Romstersepen, do you like my layout <<17:28
Romsteri've been toying with a few layouts and decided that is the neatist.17:29
sepenbut is it ksh compatible ?17:29
Romsterthat i don't know..17:29
sepenbut I don't like big tabulations17:29
Romsternot even sure if bash arrays foo=() are compatable i've read tcsh or something needs them changed to foo=""17:29
Romsteri've started to cut down on bash commands and use grep/sed/awk more.17:30
nipuLcsh scripting is painful17:30
sepenRomster, thats the problem that Han was found when he tried to use crux ports on his openbsd17:30
nipuLi'm all for removing bashisms17:30
Romsterthat's why all his ports used "" in the source.17:30
Romsteri haven't found a compatability chart and what is bash spefic or not.17:31
Romsterit's like we need a w3c version for bash.17:31
sepenwell, I also think that we need more specific guidelines to build ports17:31
Romsterwell sh is it's true name?17:31
sepensh is a symlink to your favorite shell17:32
Romsteri agree there relaxed, i've been doing my own thng finding what works the best and follows the crux path.17:32
Romsteryeah but the name sh for shell17:32
Romsteris the true name for bash shell?17:32
Romsterbash came from bourne again shell.17:33
nipuLbash is a superset of sh17:33
nipuLlike c++ is to c17:33
Romsterright that makes sense17:33
Romsterit's a extended shell.17:33
Romsteras well as boost is to c++17:33
nipuLsure, if you want to work in c++ that is17:34
Romsterso usign bash stuff is not keeping compatability.17:34
Romsteryeah i'd rather not but projects use boost.17:34
Romsterwe have a tcsh in core so i've been wondering what uses tcsh?17:35
sepena lot of *nix system have bash17:35
nipuLi use tcsh as an interactive shell17:35
sepenmeans it that we have to use Pkgfile's compatibility for tcsh?17:35
nipuLit's histroy tools trump bash17:36
nipuLstart typing a command then press the up arrow and it will only list commands in the histry starting with what you typed17:37
RomsternipuL, was it you that did that email saying to edit soem stuff and init scritps run alot faster?17:38
Romsteri'm trying to find the ML email.17:38
nipuLno, i don't think it was me17:39
nipuLugh, need to replace the motherboard in my workstation, usb keeps resetting17:40
Romsterjust started todo that or been for ages?17:40
nipuLfor a while now17:41
Romstersure it's a faulty usb controler?17:41
Romsterand anyways you could jsut throw in a usb card?17:41
nipuLhmm i might actually try that, i have one sitting on my desk17:42
Romsterah predatorfreak sent it on the ML 10/10/200717:42
Romstermaking rc sh-compatible17:43
RomsterPlus I don't get the whole idea anyway: bash is just yet another tool,17:48
Romsterwhy not use its features? It's in core/ anyway, it's also must-have17:48
Romsterfor the vast amount of scripts with bashisms, you can't just throw17:48
Romsterit away. If you can't... isn't it wise to use bash where it suits17:48
Romsteroff the ML17:48
RomsterAnton wrote that.17:48
Romsterhmm and it's for mksh that thread.17:49
Romsterah ok it was mksh confusion on ML, and they didn't get echo to work the same.17:51
Romsterlooks like array=() stuff is bashism17:56
Romsterthat's about the only real change.17:56
Romster is the diff i grabed out of my email client.18:03
Romsterthat's something i haven't tryed, although mksh or any other shells wouldn't work with pkgutils.18:04
Romsterbecause of that array thing.18:04
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Romsterah speaking of you predatorfreak <<18:04
predatorfreakRomster: Not saying things behind my back are you?18:05
predatorfreak'cuz if you are... I'll have to cut you :)18:05
Romsteryour old patch for rc-make-sh-compatable.18:05
Romsternothing bad jsut the making sh less borne restricted.18:05
Romsterfor the rc scripts and maybe pkgutils but that's leading into Han's problem of changing all foo=() to foo=""18:06
Romsterare you runing a modifyed system?18:06
predatorfreakRomster: Not massively.18:06
predatorfreakEverything of my modifications is in my repo.18:06
Romsterthere is tcsh in core and no idea what uses that.18:06
nipuLit's just a shell18:06
predatorfreaknipuL: Move it to opt.18:07
nipuLsome people prefer csh over sh18:07
predatorfreaknipuL: Again, move it to opt :)18:07
predatorfreakBash is the standard shell on Linux.18:07
predatorfreakThe only one that REALLY belongs in core.18:07
predatorfreakNo matter how much I love zsh :P18:07
Romsterso this make sh compatable is it really worth it.18:08
Romsteror should we keep making bash only code that dosn't work on other shells.18:08
predatorfreakIt ain't worth it.18:08
predatorfreakUnless some BSD would ever use pkgutils.18:08
predatorfreakIt wouldn't make sense to waste time on it.18:08
Romsterso stick to bash, Han has already taken care of that.18:08
predatorfreakHan's gone isn't he? :P18:09
Romsteryou did make a patch
Romsterfrom here but he still does his BSD stuff.18:09
predatorfreakRomster: Yeah.18:09
predatorfreakWe got talking about dash and some shit18:09
predatorfreakand I decided to make that out of boredness18:10
Romsterspeed comparasion using mksh dash?18:10
predatorfreakRomster: Never bothered.18:10
Romsterhmm seems it's all a lost cause to bother messing.18:10
Romsteri was thinking of the speed improvement and being more shell compatable.18:10
nipuLusing sh code would be good for running on low memory systems18:10
predatorfreaknipuL: Who runs CRUX on embedded systems? o.O18:11
nipuLthere's a guy working on an arm port iirc18:11
Romsteri was thinking bash would have to be kept but for everything possable to change to a sh compatable shell for rc scripts and stuff.18:11
Romsteri'm thinking speed and memory footprint, mainly speed.18:12
nipuLi'd still like to see crux go multiarch18:12
predatorfreakRomster: On a modern x86 box18:12
predatorfreakI doubt there'd be a noticeable improvement18:12
predatorfreakGiven the size of our scripts.18:12
Romsterhere we go with the 'we have heaps of cpu who cares about a slight improvment'18:12
predatorfreakRomster: Ubuntu might benefit because their init scripts are HOOOG18:12
Romsterboged down in bash?18:13
predatorfreakWhich increases the parse time significantly.18:13
predatorfreakSo, switching to a fast, plain-sh shell makes a bit of sense18:13
predatorfreakBut given the size of our scripts (tiny)18:13
Romsteryeah that's what i had in mind.18:13
predatorfreakand the relative speed of processors.18:13
Romsterstill a improvment.18:13
predatorfreakbash and dash might be less than 1% better18:13
predatorfreak-better +difference18:14
Romsterin your repo you got your changes so you runing that patch?18:14
predatorfreakRomster: Uhh no.18:14
predatorfreakRomster: My rc is different from core's by a decent margin.18:14
predatorfreakI made the output prettier and shit18:15
Romsteroh, i'd be interested in it.18:15
predatorfreakand never bothered with sh.18:15
Romsteri like pretty.18:15
predatorfreakRomster: Feel free to grab it.18:15
Romsteri'll have a look though it.18:15
predatorfreakBasically, when services start18:15
predatorfreakOutput is something like "Starting <servicename>... busy"18:16
predatorfreakwhich changes to "Starting <servicename>... done"18:16
predatorfreakor error when it's done/fails18:16
predatorfreakStole a bit from Arch's initscripts out of laziness.18:16
predatorfreakWith some tweakage by me.18:17
predatorfreakNot intended for core though, since it's just senseless pretty.18:17
sepenI only want to get an error if fails18:17
predatorfreaksepen: It only prints error when it fails :P18:17
sepenand the Starting line?18:18
predatorfreakIt changes the last bit through trickery18:18
predatorfreakWithout printing a new line.18:18
Romsterpredatorfreak, ah18:18
predatorfreak(busy, done, error, blah, blah)18:18
predatorfreakRomster: I also run runit on my box, instead of sysvinit.18:19
Romsterpredatorfreak, i tryed to make the output better with my /etc/rc.d/ files i make for like yacy tor etc..18:19
Romsterany diferences?18:19
predatorfreakRomster: Service monitoring/watchdogging, similar to daemontools.18:20
predatorfreakrunit is basically daemontools as init.18:20
Romsterso you avoind another package and have better intergration?18:21
predatorfreakI run all my daemons through runit, all my run-once scripts through init.18:21
predatorfreakerr -init +rc18:21
predatorfreakRomster: Yeah.18:21
predatorfreakRomster: Call me crazy, but if mpd dies18:21
predatorfreakI want it back ASAP18:21
predatorfreakRomster: So far though, mpd hasn't died on me until I told it too :P18:22
predatorfreakRomster: I might propose runit for 2.5 and see how it goes.18:23
Romsternoticed much performance increase?18:25
Romsterand less latency/wait time.18:25
predatorfreakRomster: No.18:25
predatorfreakI did it for the features18:25
predatorfreaknot the performance18:25
Romsterso it basicly says hay mpd died restart it.18:25
predatorfreakBasically it says.18:25
sepenpredatorfreak, may be you should open a new ticket in FS18:25
predatorfreak"Oh mpd died."18:25
predatorfreak"Let's try and restart it."18:25
predatorfreaksepen: When the 2.5 cycle rolls around I will.18:26
predatorfreakand I'll provide conversion patches + runit start scripts for daemons in core/opt.18:26
predatorfreakWe're in post-2.4 cycle now :)18:26
sepenat this time I use 'monit' for that purposses18:26
predatorfreaksepen: Difference of taste, I suppose.18:29
predatorfreakmonit is too big for me, too many things I won't use18:29
predatorfreakrunit is "just right" and has the bonus of working as init :P18:29
sepenyeah its bigger for that task18:29
predatorfreaksepen: Like I said, runit is basically daemontools that works as init instead of as an independent daemon18:30
Romsterhmm worth while looking at them and seeing what would suit me.18:30
predatorfreakand shares most of daemontools design too.18:30
Romsterrunit sounds like a it might be worthwhile for 2.5?18:31
predatorfreakRomster: There's also plain-old-daemontools too :P18:31
Romsteryeah i know of.18:31
sepenpredatorfreak, thats sounds nice for me, sure18:31
predatorfreakRomster: Like I said, when discussion of 2.5 rolls around, I'll provide all the shit for it.18:31
Romsterintergrated would work alot better imo.18:31
Romsterand 2.5 is in the works now <<18:31
Romsterwell ideas and stuff.18:32
predatorfreakRomster: Discussion started when?18:32
sepenwhen system devels stay here18:32
predatorfreakRomster: When it's time to start merging stuff, call me.18:32
Romsterdiscussion hasn't started but FS tickets would be put to it.18:32
sepenyep predatorfreak  use FS18:32
Romsterso add in a feature request.18:32
sepenFS imo could be a nice engine for crux18:33
predatorfreakRomster: I'll add in a "feature everything-is-already-done" when I get around to converting the rest of shit in opt/core18:33
Romsterk well add in patches would help speed the process then people can test it if they choose too.18:33
predatorfreaksepen: Stuff, dodats, crap.18:34
Romstershit crap 'other stuff'18:34
Romsterall that crap in opt.18:34
Romsterit's slang words.18:34
predatorfreakRomster: I'll have my runit port provided, plus the converted ports.18:34
Romsterpretty much but dosn't have the same ring to it.18:34
Romstersound of the phrase.18:34
Romsterpredatorfreak, neat.18:35
predatorfreakRomster: Fun thing of runit is you can just drop it in, pull out sysvinit18:35
predatorfreakand not bust anything18:35
Romsterpredatorfreak, now that's a bonus.18:35
predatorfreakRomster: So, we could provide both runit scripts (and something to manage those, they get a bit tricky) and the old init scripts for 2.518:35
predatorfreakand people who haven't converted to runit can just boot as normal18:36
predatorfreakwith runit replacing sysvinit18:36
predatorfreakand have the same-old-init18:36
Romsterthe runit scripts get a bit tricky?18:36
predatorfreakRomster: It's not an invasive rape-everything-you-know-and-love-about-init replacement18:36
predatorfreakRomster: Nothing much.18:37
predatorfreakJust you'd need to say install them to /etc/runit.d or something18:37
Romsterheh well drop in is liek the syslog to syslog-ng dropin.18:37
predatorfreakand do ln -sf /etc/runit.d/hal /var/service/18:37
predatorfreakRomster: Made that sound too scary :P18:37
sepenpfff isn't per style and ideas of crux KISS18:38
predatorfreakYou'd just need to decide the directory to stick them in and then the rest is ln.18:38
Romsterwhats with the symlink?18:38
Romsteri'd stick to /etc/rc.d/18:38
predatorfreakRomster: everything in /var/service is monitored and run automatically.18:38
Romsterchanging that would anoy me since i run a few in rc.d manually.18:38
predatorfreakSo just sticking things in there = oh a billion processes at start.18:38
predatorfreakand they're little directories with a start and stop script basically.18:39
Romsterso everything starts at once ?18:39
Romsteror is there rules on order.18:39
predatorfreakRomster: Nah, you can do depends.18:39
predatorfreakBasically though depends is calling sv start /var/service/blah18:39
predatorfreak(starting it before starting the prog you want)18:40
predatorfreakIf it's already started, there's no downside though, runit would just report that it's started18:40
predatorfreakOtherwise things are started in parallel.18:40
predatorfreakThings that are essentially run-once tasks should be started the old fashion way (rc.d script)18:41
predatorfreakdaemons should start via runit.18:42
predatorfreakRomster: But like I said, you could choose to use the service monitoring or not.18:42
predatorfreakold-fashion rc.d scripts won't bust or nothing.18:42
predatorfreakRomster: err I must be getting boring again, I'll sush up :P18:44
cruxbotcontrib.git: dmidecode: Clean up. Fixed Packager line.18:45
cruxbotcontrib.git: Created repository18:45
Romsterjust got a bit busy.18:47
predatorfreakRomster: Well in any case.18:48
predatorfreakIRON MAIDEN!!!18:48
Romsternot sure on the service monitoring it maybe a good thing for a server setup more so than a desktop.18:48
predatorfreakRomster: I find it useful for me.18:48
Romsterthre doing one last tour so i heard?18:48
predatorfreakIron Maiden are just doing a big one.18:48
predatorfreakThen they'll stop and record an album or something18:48
predatorfreakthen start touring again in a year or so.18:49
predatorfreakRomster: But, I'm going to wait for discussions on 2.518:49
predatorfreakSee if the idea flows well with anyone else18:49
predatorfreakand then if it does, give up all my work :P18:49
Romstergawd if spam wasn't bad enough i'm getting women pictures in bikinis now....18:54
* Romster deleates and marks as spam.18:55
Romsterhmm may aswell go back to crux channel now <<18:56
Romstersepen, did you test out my tetex version?18:56
sepennot yet18:56
sepenplease give a day or so18:57
predatorfreakRomster: Free porn you say?18:57
predatorfreakOH GOD IT ATE MY PC18:57
Romsterno rush jsut thought i'd alert to the fact i did soem major cleaning.18:58
Romsterpredatorfreak, new firefox version is out too i'm already compiling it <<18:59
predatorfreakRomster: .12?18:59
predatorfreakGod damn it!18:59
predatorfreakCan't they just code better!19:00
predatorfreakRomster: Then again, I finally figured out why they can't code for squat at times.19:00
predatorfreakEvery picture of Mozilla developers includes one women.19:01
predatorfreakand I deduced that instead of coding.19:01
predatorfreakThey're all taking turns19:01
predatorfreakAt least.19:01
predatorfreakThat's the only logical explanation I found.19:01
predatorfreakSince Firefox has more bugs than a beehive <_<19:02
Romstertell me about it and long standing bugs that should of been fixed ages ago.19:16
predatorfreakRomster: I hate Firefox.19:17
predatorfreakBut everything else lacks SOMETHING that makes it unusable.19:17
Romsteri used to like it alot but it's geting worse.19:17
predatorfreakI.E. Opera & flash is totally fucking busted19:17
Romsternetscape isn't too bad but it's not the same.19:17
Romsterah i mean opera*19:17
Romsteryet java works wonders on netscape.19:18
Romsterbut sucks on firefox.19:18
predatorfreakI make Firefox act like Opera.19:18
predatorfreakBecause I got so used to using Opera that EVERYTHING ELSE feels wrong19:18
cruxbotxfce.git: xfce4-battery-plugin: New port.19:18
predatorfreakoohh I love the interwebs at times19:20
predatorfreakI just found CCR's discographie on fancy direct-download :)19:21
cruxbotopt.git: firefox: Update to
cruxbotxfce.git: libsexy: New port.20:32
cruxbotxfce.git: libnotify: New port.21:00
cruxbotxfce.git: notification-daemon-xfce: New port.21:02
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cruxbotxfce.git: notification-daemon-xfce: Fixed README file.21:07
cruxbotxfce.git: notification-daemon-xfce: Fixed dependency.21:14
cruxbotxfce.git: libsexy: Fixed footprint mismatch.21:18
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