IRC Logs for #crux-devel Tuesday, 2008-06-24

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nipuLgnutls is still "maintained" by jaeger, shall i adopt?03:34
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nipuLi'll assume silence == shut up, announce it to the ml and do it already06:05
cptnor no one's around to comment06:05
cptnbut yes, please go ahead :-)06:06
sepenfor me its ok06:06
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j^2hey hey all08:42
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jueanother request, please: ldd /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9/ | grep not09:42
juegives that something like: version `NSS_3.12' not found?09:44
tilman_yes, i'm seeing the same 'error'10:01
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predatorfreaktilman: I'd like to know how in Gods name you got firefox to build with nss 3.11...10:38
predatorfreakLast I checked Firefox 3 won't build with that version.10:38
tilmani have super cow powers10:39
tilmanfor the record, https does work, too10:39
predatorfreakLast I checked it only worked properly with nss 3.1210:40
predatorfreakNot to mention, nss is in opt is unmaintained and out-of-date.10:40
predatorfreakand you're still missing the required post-install script.10:41
predatorfreakOtherwise applications linking against xulrunner might fail.10:41
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cptnI completely missed to send the reminder earlier today...10:59
tilman4 minutes should be enough for anybody10:59
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tilmanfor the record, i just asked jaeger to put libdaemon and avahi in gnome/11:00
tilmanlooks like we can drop them from opt soon11:00
tilman...and i should send this to the list11:00
cptnshould we ask him to maintain gnome on
tilmandunno, i think he really prefers subversion11:01
cptnah :-)11:01
jueI vote for replacing firefox with arora ;-)11:06
tilmancptn: aren't you an nvidia user? :p11:06
juethat mozilla sutff is really boring11:06
aonjue: is arora any good?11:06
aoni've been meaning to test it out11:06
cptntilman: I am11:06
cptntilman: but I don't use the binary driver ;-)11:06
jueaon: it's still in a alpha state11:06
juebut works nice11:06
tilmanhow did you guess my next question?11:07
aonnouveau didn't work, btw, it really fucked everything up11:07
cptnaon: sorry11:07
aonnp :)11:07
tilmanjue: btw, in iso.git -- is the 2.4-e1 branch the stuff that jaeger announced to the list shortly before the left?11:07
aoni didn't imagine you can even do such stuff in software :)11:07
aonfor a while i thought my monitor had finally broken11:08
tilmanwell, the sw tells the hw to fuck everything up11:08
juetilman: yep, I noticed after commiting something to 2.411:08
aonbut it was a very creative fuck-up11:08
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aonit looked like hw was told the right things but it still fucked up11:08
juebut 2.4-e1 should be now up-to-date11:09
tilmanaon: i had the same situation with some matrox once. really scary, but POST fixed it :D11:09
aonwhich may of course be the case, in fact11:09
aonnv just doesn't t rigger it11:09
tilmanjue: okay, so 2.4-e1 should be our starting point for 2.5?11:09
cptnaon: what generation do you have?11:09
tilmanin general, it's difficult to damage your hardware by wrongly programming the hardware11:09
aoncptn: 2. :)11:09
tilmanthough one of the radeon developers once fried a user's card :D11:09
tilmanjue: alright11:10
cptna "malicious open source hacker"11:10
tilmani wondered whether a quick 2.5 release to bump gcc and glibc would make sense11:10
tilmancptn: :p11:10
aoni wonder whether we could include cdrkit in 2.511:10
aonin opt11:10
cptntilman: 2.5 soon sounds great11:11
tilmanaon: definitely11:11
cptn+1 on cdrkit11:11
tilmani've been using it since you brought it up recently11:11
tilman(ie, i burned 1 or 2 cd-r's :D)11:11
tilmannot quite extensive testing ;p11:11
jue... but we should first fix/cleanup firefox11:12
aonoh, is it the casual irc meeting already?11:12
aonyeah, cdrkit is a matter of just putting the ports in opt so it's pretty much settled11:12
tilmani don't want to take nss, too :x11:12
cptnaon: yeah!11:12
jueI spent a lot of time today to get working nspr/nss stuff11:13
juewith not that much success until now11:13
juecurrently we are _not_ using system nss, but the included one IMO11:14
tilmanmmh, weird11:14
tilmanjue: nak -- after 'pkgrm nss', firefox didn't work anymore for me11:14
tilmanobjections to me nuking opt/vpnc (another one of jaeger's ports)?11:17
cptnnone from my side11:17
tilmanit would be nice to be able to resolve unmaintenance issues tonight11:17
aonnone from here either11:18
cptntilman: agreed11:18
cptnI'm building xulrunner/firefox on my laptop now, to see how it works here11:18
tilmanguess i'll take nss ._.11:19
tilman(while hyttering med naven)11:19
aonhow about bchunk?11:19
cptnwe could create a list of ports that are up for grabs11:19
tilmanit's hosted in finnland, aon gets to adopt it11:19
cptnyou know, if you take nss you could still ask for a new maintainer :-)11:19
aoni can drop it, sure11:19
juenspr/nss ports11:20
cptntilman: sounds fair to me11:20
tilmanjue: great, thanks11:20
j^2if there is a list maybe i could even steal one or two11:20
cptnso, are there any objections to moving the source check and prtverify mails to a dedicated ML?11:21
j^2none at all11:21
aonhmm, however, bchunk seems kinda useful11:21
cptnI mean, for the ports no one wants we should also ask on the contrib mailing list11:22
aoni can take it if nobody wants it11:22
tilmanadopt it11:22
cptntilman: dedicated ML for prtverify and source check?11:23
tilmansry, i was on the phone11:23
cptnheh, no problem11:23
aon+1, it's kind of an eyesore on devel11:23
tilmango ahead11:23
j^2aon: +1 on your statement11:23
cptnokay, I'll take care of that11:23
cptnI'll have to read up on mailman, but I think I'll manage :-)11:24
tilman(we should talk about the state of tonight)11:24
tilmancptn: officially i'm even maintaining mailman *cough*11:24
tilmani have the passwords and know where it is installed11:24
cptnthen I'll let you fix it once I broke it :-)11:24
tilmanso i can return the mysql favor? ;D11:25
aonhmm, actually, i share an irc channel with the bchunk author :)11:25
cptnmaybe he can maintain the crux port too :-)11:26
cptnaon: he's even an amateur radio user11:26
aonthat's why he's in a channel i'm in11:27
aon19:25 [IRCnet] -!-  channels : @#ham.fi11:28
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cptnshould we quickly go through the open bug reports?11:28
tilmanhey alancio11:29
alanciohello, how are you doing?11:29
tilmanokayish :D11:30
cptnhey alancio; quite alright here11:30
alancioHi Johannes11:30
alancioI just came reminded by your email11:30
cptnah, good11:30
cptnit was kinda late, I wanted to send it earlier11:31
cptnI'd close that one11:31
cptnto me, it's not worth the extra code11:31
aonyeah, it seems quite nasty anyway11:32
alancioI think its useful, but it shouldn't be in the core pkgutils11:33
tilmandunno, i can see where it's useful11:33
tilmanand if it doesn't keep the built package it should  be safe, too11:34
alanciomaybe this could be a separate program from pkgmk?11:34
alancioeg: pkgmk-resume11:35
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cptnI don't really see the advantage over running pkgmk -eo, and doing it manually11:35
alanciothat way you must really be sure that you are doing something different11:35
alancioyou mean -do?11:35
cptnno, -eo11:35
cptnextract only :-)11:36
cptnthat will be the next report to look at11:36
cptnit's not merged yet IIRC11:36
alanciothat should be like using pkgmk -kw, and killing it after extracting the source11:37
alancioI have used that method before11:37
tilman+1 on extract-only11:38
alancio+1 on -eo11:38
tilmani wanted to merge nipul's original patch, but got distracted when i realized it wasn't working quite right ;)11:38
cptnokay, so shall regarding "build from existing dir":11:39
cptnclose it for now?11:39
cptnwe still have it in flyspray anyway11:39
tilmanno idea really11:39
alanciowhere is mxq?11:39
alanciomaybe we should wait for him11:40
Rotwangit's mee11:40
alanciooh ok :)11:40
Rotwangclose it if you dont find it useful11:40
tilmanwell, clearly it's useful to some people11:40
alanciowhat do you think about having it with a different name? lets say: pkgmk-resume11:40
tilmannot sure whether the effort is worth it11:41
cptnalancio: what would that tool do?11:41
alancioit would be resume the build, just like this patch does11:42
cptnbut where?11:42
alancioI mean, it would be equivalent to calling pkgmk with -b (or with -rw, as it was changed)11:43
cptnI mean, if build() failed in "make install", rerunning the whole process would e.g. patch again11:43
cptnwhich would then fail11:43
alanciooh yes, there is no clean way to solve that11:43
Rotwangit would be possible to remove set -e from subshell ;]11:44
alancioexcept for what I wrote about the patch() build() and install() functions11:44
alanciobut I don't like them either11:44
cptnit just looks like a convenience feature that won't work in all cases11:45
cptne.g. if sed/patch is involved11:45
cptnand all it does is save the packager to copy commands from a Pkgfile and run them manually11:46
jueHan had a similar feature in his pkgutils, he used it in a way that he commented out the successful steps and rerun pkgmk after that11:46
Rotwang-eo too only saves from unpacking manualy11:46
cptnthat plus knowing where your PKGMK_SOURCE_DIR is11:47
cptnwell, not only that11:47
cptnif a port has mulitple sources, it'll create the same setup as pkgmk would11:47
Rotwangby the way its not always desirable11:48
Rotwanglook at the vegastrike port11:49
cptnPackage 'vegastrike' not found11:49
Rotwangbut its not important right now11:50
cptnso if you'd run pkgmk -eo on this port, it would look exactly like what build() gets11:51
cptnso that seems to be more of an argument for -eo11:51
Rotwangwell, maybe11:52
Rotwangall im saing is that is -eo is as important as -rw ;] imo11:52
alancioI think the real problem with -rw is that someone could use it without commenting the seds/patchs11:53
alancioif you know how -rw works, you just edit your Pkgfile and comment the things that won't work11:53
alanciothat was the reason I was talking about calling this pkgmk-resume, because you can't mistake that for a regular run of pkgmk11:54
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cptnwell, did we agree on something?12:00
jueoops, think so extract only yes, resume no12:00
cptnper Group Stylesheet ;-)12:01
tilmanthe color changes make me dizzy12:02
cptnI'm actually doing that manually12:02
juewhich color change?12:03
tilmancptn: yeah, i guessed so :D12:03
cptnI changed the background color of the public section12:03
j^2can you change the text links too? the red/blueish is horrible12:04
cptnjue: I was thinking that we could have a separate stylesheet for the public wiki12:04
cptnto separate it12:04
Rotwangalancio: pkgmk-resume is easy to script, so maybe write one and put on the publi wiki?12:05
jueyes, that's possible12:05
cptnI'd like to go ahead with the 'public wiki' > 'wiki' renaming12:06
alancioRotwang: sure thing12:06
jueare we ready with the bug things?12:07
cptnjue: not yet12:07
cptnI think we'll leave sha256 for now12:07
cptnthat's a major discussion12:07
tilmancptn: excellent idea. i wanted to ping you about the wiki revamping project :)12:10
tilmanRotwang: sounds like a good idea12:10
Rotwangok, i guess its a good solution ;]12:11
cptntilman: can you merge the extract only then?12:11
cptnpersonally, I don't care about it a lot, but I've been convinced that it's important to others :-)12:11
tilmani assigned the bug to myself, so i don't forget about it12:12
cptnI'll close the other one then12:12
cptnI think these are the major pkgutils items that waited for an answer12:13
cptnI changed it to a blueish theme12:23
alancioI like it better12:24
juehow should we call teh "Back to public documentation" link now?12:25
cptnback to the wiki main page maybe?12:25
cptnor start page12:25
tilmanjue: mmh, why did you remove nss.pc(.in)?12:30
tilmanwhy? :p12:32
jueit's kinda like the sqlite3.pc discussion, IMO distris should not add features12:32
juedid you read my comment about nss-config?12:33
tilmanit's insane12:33
jueyep, indeed12:33
juefor the others: mozilla is using nss-config in firefox, but do not supply one in there nss sources12:35
cptnsounds familiar12:35
jueso they are assume that distributions are adding one12:35
tilmani added nss/nspr12:42
tilmanwill test the xulrunner/firefox build again against those12:42
tilmanafterwards i'll push it12:42
tilmanjue: thanks for updating the ports :)12:42
cptnregarding bugs again:12:44
cptnthere are a couple of bugs against sip's ports12:44
cptnfor being outdated12:44
cptnI could probably check out subversion12:44
juetilman: hopefully you have more luck with them12:45
juecptn: is it ok to update the ports without asking him?12:47
cptndon't think so12:48
cptnbut I'd ask him if we should go ahead12:49
cptnso if there are ports of his that you know well enough to update them too, I'd ask him in the same mail12:49
cptnwell, maybe he'll show up later tonight12:49
cptnshould I send an announcement to crux@ regarding the wiki?12:50
cptnI assume there will be some dead links, but users should spot them soon12:50
alanciobetter send that together with the results of this irc meeting12:50
cptnwell, one would go to crux-devel12:50
tilmani'll drop libdaemon/avahi now -- jaeger just put them in the gnome repo12:55
tilmancptn: is httpup 0.4.0j the one for gcc 4.3 compat.?12:57
pitillothat sounds good (they seem to don't have any port dependent on them)12:58
cptnand no, I don't know why it's not 0.4.1 :-)12:58
tilmanpitillo: yup12:58
cptnshould we notify contrib about ports we drop?12:58
cptnthat's more a general question, not specific to these two12:59
tilman"would be nice"12:59
cptnwow, I'd love to have some ice cream now13:00
aoni just had tome13:04
aonwow, that was a strange typo13:04
cptndo you use an abcdef layout? ;-)13:04
Rotwangso, what about contrib-x86_64 ?13:05
Rotwangany thoughts about that?13:05
cptnwell, I think once the project's running that will be a good thing to have13:07
cptnRotwang: do you know others that would join?13:08
tilmanjue: i'm getting a footprint mismatch for xulrunner with your new nss/nspr ports. MISSING nss stuff :x13:09
tilmandid you see that too? i guess not :)13:09
tilmangotta run13:12
tilmanbe back at 9 or so13:12
cptnjue: thanks for adding the links to the wiki start page13:12
cptnand all the other fixes of course13:12
cptnshould we maybe have a group specific navigation?13:13
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Rotwan1my internet conection sucks :x, cptn: mike_k declared himself on the ML to do some testing with x86_6413:18
juecptn: you mean instead of the default Home::Doc.. bar?13:19
cptnjue: yeah, maybe13:20
cptnand then maybe a single link back to the main page13:20
cptnRotwan1: okay13:20
jueif you want it on the page itself it's easy, just add some code to e.g. Wiki.GroupHeader13:21
cptnRotwan1: I think if we want a similar setup like with the current contrib, we need a group of packagers13:22
cptnRotwan1: maybe it can be merged with the current contrib group though13:22
cptnin any case, as soon as we're ready to offer something to test we should go ahead with contrib6413:23
juecptn: otherwise a css thing13:23
cptnI'll have a look at the skin definition13:24
cptnmaybe it's easy to have a group specific switch in there13:24
cptnbut maybe it's okay the way we have it now13:24
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juehmm, arora works really nice, promising13:27
cptnone more thing:13:28
cptnI'd like to announce Matt's updated ISO on our news page13:28
cptnsince they're fairly nice13:29
cptnany comments on that?13:29
cptnI'd ask him first of course!13:29
jueyep, good idea13:29
juehmm, if we are going to implement #171 for 2.5 we need a plan IMO13:41
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cptnmmmh, okay13:43
cptnI'm not using a UTF-8 locate at this point in time13:43
cptnbut I think tilman is13:43
jueah, good to know13:44
juefrom our side we have at least to convert the ports trees13:45
jueor aon and I replace our Umlauts with ue and ae ;-)13:47
aonjue: i don't have my umlaut in the ports13:48
jueAntti Nykänen, aon at iki dot fi13:48
aon10 vs 1613:49
alancioRotwan1: good13:49
aonthis ought to be cleaned up :)13:49
jueah, and viper's ß13:53
aoni doubt anyone can or needs to pronounce my name anyway so better go 7bit :)13:54
cptn"Maintainer: The Anttiman"13:55
treach"The Anttinator"13:55
cptnah that sounds even better13:55
jueaon: lol, that's cool -> deumlautify13:55
aoni doubt that's a word :)13:55
cptnit is now13:56
cptnand you're the definition :-)13:56
aonthat was a Fast Show reference, btw13:56
aonnot deumlautify, but that "is that a word? it is now"-thing13:57
cptndidn't know13:57
aonwhich just shows how much free time i have on my hands, i've watched all three seasons probably three times this year :)13:57
cptndon't even know Fast Show13:57
* cptn googles13:57
aonbetter youtube it13:57
cptnhere's another thing13:58
cptninitiated by sepen and treach13:58
cptnsepen suggested that we might write some guidelines for handling "standard situations"13:58
cptnlike maintainers leaving and so on13:58
cptnand treach suggested a magic maintainer tag for ports that are left unmaintained13:59
cptnI think both are good ideas14:00
cptnthe former probably takes quite some time to write14:00
cptnbut if we had a script to replace the maintainer, that should be fairly painless14:00
cptnnot sure if we want to go with a simple unmaintained@crux.nu14:01
aonyeah, provided that people don't go and have different kinds of maintainer tags (like I did)14:01
cptnor some clever punk14:01
aonalthough it's not that common an occurrence14:01
aonperhaps the unmaintained ports could even be removed from the tree automatically after some period14:02
cptnerr, *clever pun14:02
aonif nobody picks them up14:02
treachaon: even if you have different maintainer tag, the real name should - hopefully - be the same. Not a problem unless two maintainers happen to have the same name. :>14:04
aonmm, but what if the maintainer has an ä somewhere and somewhere not :)14:06
cptnjust run deumlautify first14:07
cptnI'm sure we can come up with a good solution there14:07
cptnI mean, at least when running git-diff we should catch the errors14:08
treachOR, new policy. No funny chars in your maintainer tag.. :>14:09
jueyep, exactly14:10
cptnor no maintainers with funny names!14:11
j^2germans are out then :P14:12
* jue hides14:12
treachdutch too. ;)14:12
cptnthat's actually they reason why we kicked out Per14:12
cptnthe Lidén bit14:12
treachI don't think he'd be very keen on dropping that ´ :>14:13
cptnreminds me of this funny story, where a Swedish company wanted to become more international14:16
cptnand dropped the dots of ä or ö in their name14:17
cptnand then announced "we're still the same, we just lost our pricks"14:17
cptnsince prick in swedish also means "dot"14:18
treachswenglish ftw.14:18
treach"prick" means "dot" in swedish14:18
cptnhowever, a Norwegian told me this story, so it might actually just be a joke on swedes :-)14:19
treachI'm pretty sure it's true. I've heard it before14:20
treachat least it wouldn't surprise me at all, older people usually are quite bad at english, so when they have to use it sometimes strange things are said. ;)14:21
cptnyeah, same thing here14:21
aondo öäå have some "nick"name in swedish?14:21
cptnalthough compared to Sweden, we're quite far behind when it comes to English14:21
treachlike the one of the bosses on a company I once worked for, who refered to "citric acid" to our hungary visitors as "lemon acid" :D14:22
treachHungarian, dammit.14:22
aonsame here14:22
aonie. sitruunahappo (lemon acid) :)14:22
aonthe same thing with formic acid14:23
aon"ant acid" :)14:23
aonmyr = swamp?14:24
treachyes, but it refers to ants, "myror"14:24
aonah, right14:24
treachbut the singular form doesn't work. :P14:25
treach"myrasyra" sounds silly :P14:25
juetilman: sorry, forgot to answer, see
juetilman: but taht seems ok for me, because nss provides those libs/headers now14:30
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treachaon: to answer your "åäö" question, no they don't have any relevant "nicknames", unless you go back to the time when telex messages what teh shit. :>14:32
treachworth to note too that they are separate vowels here, and not umlauts.14:33
aonsame here14:34
aonthey're quite often called "ääkköset" (älphäbet), alphabet is "aakkoset" :p14:34
treachhaha, ok14:34
cptnthere's another thing we wanted to discuss:14:38
cptninfra-team is currently public14:38
cptnis that a good idea, considering that we might discuss server issues there?14:38
treachare you advocating security by obscurity? ;)14:38
cptnno :-)14:39
treachLet it be public, but mandate pgp. :p14:39
cptnit's more that once we're aware of a potential problem, we might not want to tell the world14:40
cptnstill discussing it in private mail isn't optimal either14:40
juehmm, I don't see a reason why it should be public, if someone is interessted he could yoin the team14:41
cptnthe ugly thing is that a couple of users are subscribed14:41
cptnand I feel bad to kick them off the list14:41
treachnew list, "infra-crew"? :D14:42
cptnthat would be the alternative14:44
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cptnI'll send an announcement to crux@ regarding the wiki then15:03
cptnanyone wants to add a news item?15:03
treach"New secret list created for the "infra-team" :P15:04
treachIf there was some kind of consensus about the "magic-tag" thing mayb that could be a candidate? At least some notice of it being discussed.15:05
cptnI plan to write a quick mail to crux-devel later on15:05
cptnwith a short summary15:05
cptnunfortunately, we'll have to kick someone out to test it I guess15:06
treachactually some kind of minutia of the stuff being discussed could be a worthy news item, IMO15:06
cptnyeah, well...15:07
treachyeah, I know.15:07
treachWork. :>15:07
cptnon one hand I agree, it's a good thing to post news items15:07
cptnbut I'd like to avoid making these meetings too formal15:07
cptnas soon as the masses join to discuss their ideas, it won't be effective anymore15:08
treachmmh, I didn't mean to imply that *everything* discussed should go in.15:08
treachjust the stuff interesting to the general public, and as a way of showing that we're alive and things are being worked on / thought about.15:09
cptnyeah, good point15:09
tilmani agree with treach15:09
tilmanpost it! :D15:09
tilmanjue: yeah, i see that now. doing another testbuild to verify15:10
cptnOTOH, is the magic tag really interesting to the general public?15:10
cptnor is it enough to post it to crux-devel only?15:10
treachcptn: that there is informal testing of a 64 bit version going on mightbe a good candidate too, I guess.15:10
cptnsounds like "newsletter" material to me :-)15:11
treachwell. I meant the crux using general public. :)15:11
cptnnow if you guys guarantee that there's always so many items to report on, I'll be glad to do a weekly or bi-weekly status updates15:11
cptnerr, update15:11
treachmaybe. I was just thinking of some little newsflash thing.15:11
cptnyeah, nothing major15:11
cptnjust a "hi, we're alive, this is what's going on"15:11
treachcan't see why that wouldn't qualify as a "news item".15:12
treachafter all that's what we get from the parliament all the time.15:12
treach"yeah, those fuckers are still alive, and this is the nasty stuff they are currently working on." :>15:13
cptnheh, yeah15:13
cptnI meant "news item" was on the start page15:13
thrice`man, you guys and firefox; you know how easy something like this is? ;0
cptnso should we do something like a development update mail?15:14
cptntilman, jue, aon ?15:14
treachI would like to put it on the web. that way people not subscribing to the list have easier access to it.15:15
cptnwe could just have it as a wiki page15:15
cptnand send it to the ML too15:15
cptnmmmh, I wonder if we could collect these items on a wiki page15:15
cptnand then write a script to transform it into a mail15:15
treachsure. I was just thinking of a way to get rid of a lot of the "drive-bys" we get15:15
tilmansorry, was checking on the backlog15:16
tilmanwe could blog about stuff like this15:16
tilman-> planet.crux.nu15:16
tilmanwell, it probably won't work out :D15:16
cptnI mean the devupdate could be a blog15:17
* treach still favors news on the main page.15:17
tilmanyeah, ignore me15:17 \o/15:17
treachbut heck, I'm not even part of the project. ;)15:17
tilmana planet with one blog being syndicated is silly15:17
juetilman: hurra, got it :-)15:17
Rotwangyou could divide it into different sections :p15:18
tilmanjue: ? :)15:18
tilmani indeed use an utf8 locale15:18
tilmanand yes, you guys should use wtf8 for your pkgfiles15:18
tilmanwell, 171 isn't that important imo15:19
juewe must add libnssdbm3.so15:19
tilmandidn't we even agree that it should be up to the user to configure an utf8 "environment"?15:19
tilmanRotwang: are you blogging about crux?15:20
juetilman: just add to the first for-loop15:21
juein nss15:21
j^2uberleets twitter about crux :P15:21
tilmanpfff, twitter15:22
tilmanjue: how did you find out that file was missing?15:22
treachthrice`: that's considered cheating. ;)15:22
tilmanld error? :)15:22
jueno, comparing the footprint error ;-)15:23
treachthrice`: we really need source based java/eclipse/ooo ports. :p15:23
aoncptn: yeah, definitely15:23
aoncould be a blog, too15:23
aon(was looking at old post cards :))15:23
tilmanforget the blog idea, that was stupid15:24
Rotwangtilman: no ;]15:24
thrice`treach: of course; but my build time is about download + 2 seconds15:24
tilmanit would only be fun if there were some people who blogged about crux15:24
aonokay, let's forget that15:24
tilman(orly, cptn obvious)15:24
cptnwell, that's true for 'planet'15:24
aonbut why not?15:24
cptnbut the devblog could be separate15:24
* Rotwang is not blogger type person15:24
treachtilman: well, it's not a bad idea per se. Make some noise, make sure some people know we even exist.15:24
aon(can't bother to read backlog comprehensively)15:24
cptnfor random development wisdom15:24
tilmanthat would imply that we had a blog with multiple user accounts, right?15:25
mike_kj^2: sorry, what about moving your profile from Main/About to Wiki/ContribMembers for the sake of consistency?15:25
j^2Yeah that's fine :( it's been a while since i have done anything anyway15:26
tilmanmike_k: we called j^2 contributor because he maintained the faq ages ago15:26
cptntilman: or a shared account15:26
tilmani don't think he's even in contrib15:26
tilmancptn: mmh, yeah15:26
aonpreferably multiple accoutns15:29
aonit'd probably be good to centralize the web account stuff somehow, then15:30
tilmanthat evening seems to have been kind of productive. nice.15:30
aonso that you wouldn't have to log in to millions of places15:30
tilmanmaybe there's a blog plugin for pmwiki15:31
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treachmmh, am I blind, or shouldn't the faq be linked to / from the public wiki?15:32
cptnQ: do you like this:15:32
cptnI made the 'Wiki' link bold if you're in the wiki15:33
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cptn(not bold)15:33
aonwhat was my quit message?15:33
cptn (bold)15:33
tilmanaon: remote closed teh connection15:33
aoni see15:34
cptntilman: yeah, I think if we can do this on a regular base it will be even more productive15:34
mike_kdoes anyone have an experience of updating/repackaging opt/pear? sip's version is (very) old and contains home-made 'registry' files15:35
cptnmike_k: no idea, sorry15:35
tilmancptn: mmh, the bold link seems a bit strange to me. it draws attention to the link, though the link is .. useless because you're already in the wiki. i get your intention though :]15:36
cptnI'll change it to 'blink' then ;-)15:36
tilman<marquee>crux wiki</marquee>15:37
aonor the netscape composer rainbow stuff15:37
cptntilman: reload15:38
aonlet's see if i drop from irc again15:39
aonseems to happen when i rehash my zenphoto cache15:39
aon_nice_ :)15:39
treachOk, gentlemen, I know that this isn't what is discussed, but I don't think the organisation of the documentation on the site is very good. :/15:39
treachA lot of what is listed in should go into the wiki, imo15:40
cptntreach: yes, that's the plan15:40
treachok, I'll just shut up then. :>15:41
cptnno no, it's fine15:41
cptnthe organization part is always hard15:41
cptnwe could use some dedicated wiki editor(s)15:41
treachyeah. no matter how you do, it's a bit strange.15:41
tilman.oO(crux-devel ml link on Main/Development)15:42
tilmanthat one is really strange15:42
cptnmaybe we can do a dedicated wiki session next time15:42
cptnand go over all the pages15:42
cptnit's a lot less boring if you can chat inbetween wiki edits :-)15:42
treachseparating documentation depending on origin isn't really good, but mixing user contributed documentation with official stuff isn't good either. :/15:42
cptnyeah, but we can lock stuff on the wiki too15:43
tilmanwell, "troubleshooting xkb" isn't really official eg15:43
tilmanno reason why it shouldn't be in the wiki15:43
cptnso I'd move as many things to the wiki as possible15:43
tilmani just didn't pay attention to that when i created the page15:43
tilmansame goes for the laptop guides IMO15:43
cptnyeah, there's many old and outdated pages15:44
tilman *cough*15:44
treach    * 2.315:45
treach          o start testing new toolchain, glibc 2.415:45
treachlookie.. "maintainer for the public wiki [falk]"15:46
treach@seen falk15:46
clbtreach: I have not seen falk.15:46
cptnMaybe we could just have "Handbook" and "Faq" as top level items15:47
cptn together with "Wiki"15:47
cptnand move the rest from "Documentation" to the wiki15:47
treachsounds good to me15:47
cptnI can probably move the pages on server15:47 to Wiki.xyz15:47
cptnnot sure if that will screw up the history though15:48
mike_kI am sorry to bring this up again, but while you are all here: what about permitting to put ports depending on gnome/kde/xfce to contrib? I've got the filling that some of you are not against that.15:49
cptnwell, I'd rather not subscribe to either of the three15:50
pitillomike_k, why not use the dependent DE repo to put them there?15:50
cptnOTOH, maybe that wouldn't be too bad15:50
tilmanthat can be hard15:51
mike_kif you can't put it in those repos and are not allowed to put in contrib - it's likely to die inside your personal repo.15:51
tilmanbecause gnome isn't hosted on eg15:51
pitillomike_k, I see, that's a good reason15:51
tilmani think i'm leaning towards doing it :]15:51
mike_kbut you are moving this and that out of opt to gnome15:51
cptnI think if we do it, we should also ship the rsync files on the ISO15:52
pitillomike_k, only were 2 ports (avahi and the other I don't remember) are they used by something wich isn't in gnome repo?15:53
tilmansounds good to me, at least for xfce.git and kde.git15:53
tilman(they have versioned x.y branches, right?)15:53
juexfce yes15:53
mike_kand kde has15:53
treachIn my entirely unasked for opinion, either you let stuff in, and host the kde/gnome repos, or nothing depending on those should be allowed into anything even remotely official.15:53
treachwich contrib is IMO, since it's supposed to play nice with the rest of the ports, and even have a ml, etc15:54
tilmanyes, that's why i'm hesitating wrt gnome15:54
tilmanshould the rsync file point at the 'current' branch? or 2.22.whatever?15:54
thrice`jaeger might have some insight, no ?15:55
treachcptn: sounds like a topic for another meeting. ;)15:55
jueTBH, I don't like that idea15:55
cptntreach: yeah, I'm already taking a note :-)15:55
treachgood boy. :p15:55
cptnthat's why I'm here15:56
cptnthey also call me the notetaker15:56
treachthat's right, and they damn well need one. :D15:56
tilmanjue: why not?15:56
mike_kor it could be done the other way: people might be allowed to commit to xfce/kde/etc if that stuff fits in15:57
cptnor we could have contrib-kde.git, contrib-gnome.git etc15:57
mike_kah, thats to much15:57
Rotwangi dont see a point of spliting it that much15:57
treachthere is a point to it.15:58
Rotwangsince xfce kde are not official15:58
Rotwangbut half official15:58
cptnjust saying, that's another technical solution15:58
juethere are several reasons, one is that we may have the same port with different configuration in e.g. opt and gnome15:58
treachor opt/gnome/kde even.15:59
treachpoppler for instance have some different options in that regard iirc.15:59
mike_kthis could be solved by making those DE repos more 'official' and removing duplicates from opt. Though it might be hard with gnome.15:59
juemike_k: do you want a librsvg which pulls in the half gnome tree?16:00
treachdoesn't work that well, since that way you might aquire dependencies on *both* kde and knowm..16:00
treachgha, *gnome*16:01
cptnmaybe we could move that to the mailing list16:01
cptnor make an official meeting16:01
tilmanbut seriously, we need to discuss this to the end16:01
mike_kjue: since it is in gnome and not in opt... why not?16:02
tilmanmike has brought it up at least once before16:02
cptnI have to admit I haven't really thought about it16:02
cptnyeah, I agree16:02
jueoops, than you have a xfce + gnome16:02
cptnI mean, there's another idea: if prt-get would present ports that don't have all dependencies met, you could have kde/gnome/xfce dependent ports in contrib16:02
cptnbut they'd be hidden16:02
cptnonce you pull in the additional repos, you suddenly get the contrib-gnome ports too16:03
juemike_k: librsvg is a good example, look at xfce's and the one from gnome and the deps16:03
mike_kjue: yep, good one16:03
cptnerr, *wouldn't present of course16:03
mike_kI guess it is not 'modular' =(16:03
mike_kcptn: what a coward idea16:04
tilmanjue: with in nss, firefox claims it cannot init the security extension. so we're missing something else.16:05
tilmani'll dig some more tomorrow16:05
juehmm, strange works for me now16:06
tilmanwe need to ask sip about how to update you-know-what16:06
cptnor short: we need to ask sip16:07
tilmannow, sleep!16:07
tilmangood meeting16:07
juenight tilman16:07
cptnthanks for your participation!16:07
alanciothanks for your moderation16:07
tilmantsk, sure16:07
alanciothat was for Johannes16:08
alanciobye people16:08
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aonthat was nice16:09
pitillothe DE talk can be interesting too (thinking here and seems hard)16:12
pitillonice, long and profit talk. Thank you all. Good night16:28
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