IRC Logs for #crux-devel Tuesday, 2010-09-14

*** sepen has joined #crux-devel05:45
sepentilman, hmm why was removed glitz support from cairo?05:45
sepenyesterday, after upgrade to 2.7 I rebuilt cairo and most apps because they required libglitz, imho is not a problem, but do you have in mind to notice people that in the release notes or so?05:47
sepenand sorry if I missed something or I am not aware about the glitz stuff05:48
tilmanit is actually mentioned in the release notes05:52
sepenneat!05:54
sepenjust noticed on my own05:55
sepenwell, upgrade 2.7 just worked fine05:56
sepenonly one problem with my intel card, so I'm still using and old kernel06:02
sepentilman, thanks for register the repo06:09
tilmanshould have done it much sooner06:10
sepenyeah I forgot them06:10
tilmanme too06:10
sepenI registered it for sasha but forgot this one :P06:10
sepensomeone more upgraded his box to 2.7?06:11
frinnstive run two boxes on the 2.7 branch since they were created06:12
frinnsthavent upgraded though06:12
frinnstwith a iso that is06:12
sepenproduction boxes?06:12
frinnstmy personal desktop and a laptop06:13
sepenfine06:13
sepenI used the usbdisk image and worked fine too06:13
frinnstbtw. i tried to creat a usb-image with your script and a x86_64 iso06:14
frinnst*create06:14
frinnstsyslinux loads, then the screen just gets filled with crap06:15
sependid you tried $ syslinux -s $DEVICE?06:15
sepenand copy the mbr.bin?06:15
frinnstnah, i did it last night. havent tested anything other than just booting it and going to bed :D06:16
frinnsti'll give it a spin later06:16
sepenok06:16
sepenfrinnst, try to s/syslinux/syslinux -s/ in the script06:16
frinnstok06:17
sepen-s is for buggy BIOSes06:17
sepenIf I've sometime I'll make a research about syslinux on 64bits06:18
sepenbbl06:18
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teK_jue: tig _is_ 0.1607:02
teK_what did you  mean?07:02
jueah, I see, only in 2.707:25
juesorry for the noise :)07:25
jueI have contrib on 2.6 because that was much more current than 2.707:26
jues/have/had/07:28
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teK_you asked not to merge branches :-)07:42
teK_anyways I cannot use ck4up anymore it simply stopped working :\07:43
frinnstwhy not merge branches?07:57
sepenimho when you have a 2.7 installed you're ready to test what you merge and decide if you should remove/fix/etc.07:59
frinnsti have a bunch of chroot's08:13
teK_jue asked me once not to merge 2.6 into 2.7 after each set of commits09:30
sepenwell I don't like to merge change if I cannot test them in 2.7, but just my opinion09:32
sepen*changes09:32
teK_most of them are just too minor (you never can be sure that things that work for yourself will work for everybody else)09:37
frinnstsince 2.7 isnt released yet, whats the harm? it would only get more testing09:37
sepenfrinnst, and when 2.7 be released? you'll need more than one day or so to fix ports?09:38
sepenteK_, yeah, some ports have minor changes09:38
teK_I'm heading to my parents' house tonight, gotta take my SSH Key with me (to do some CRUX work)  (wrt minor changes :-))09:39
sepenhehe09:39
sepenteK_, gotta take some biers instead ;D09:40
teK_no, I will bring some red Bardolino for me and my dad09:41
sepenlol09:42
teK_btw I signed up for spanish (instead of business administration) as a minor subject for my studies :->09:43
sepengreat09:47
teK_dunno :>09:48
sepennow I could go to your contry without knowledgements of english ;D09:48
teK_for example, yes. to be honest: I'd like to learn french but I think it's more difficult than spanish09:48
sepenhmm I learned french at school and well, are similar, but listening people is another thing09:50
sepenI think french is more difficult to write09:51
sepennote that if you want to visit ibiza you don't need spanish, jhehehe09:52
teK_lol09:53
teK_I have no intentions to go there09:53
sepenthe best coast to visit is 'San Sebastian - La Concha'09:54
sepenimho09:54
teK_no vacation for me for the next five years or so I guess :)09:55
sepenlol09:55
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frinnstjaeger: could you push your changes to init & initramfs.lst before 2.7 gets released? i would like to have the same modules loading with x86_64 as the i686-iso12:23
frinnstid hate to see someone complaining cause i missed something :>12:24
jaegeryeah, just gotta restore my build environment, it was on the box that died12:28
jaegerfortunately the RAID array is fine, just can't boot the system on its own right now, need a livecd12:28
jaegersamba needs to be updated, http://us1.samba.org/samba/history/samba-3.5.5.html12:45
tilmanjue: ^^^ (samba update)12:47
juere and thanks :)13:29
jueteK_: well, I never said that we should not merge our branches, that's what I've done constantly the last weeks13:33
juelooks like there was some misunderstandigs, sorry13:33
tilmanteK_: we had some issues with merging core and opt (some conflicts that git didn't recognize). maybe that's what you had in mind?13:44
frinnstbtw, could crux.nu host a 11kb tarball? (radeon-ucode). i dont trust my unstable isp13:47
tilmanyes13:49
tilmanlet me see where to put it13:49
frinnsthttp://www.obra.se/distfiles/radeon-ucode-20100912.tar.xz if you just want to wget it13:50
tilmanfrinnst: just put it in your ~/public_html13:50
frinnsti have a shell? cool13:50
frinnst:D13:50
tilmanmmh, i think you do13:50
frinnstfatal: What do you think I am? A shell?13:51
frinnstConnection to crux.nu closed.13:51
tilmanaha, you don't13:51
tilmanlet me fix that13:51
tilmando you want bash or zsh?13:51
frinnstbash ofcourse :D13:51
tilmandone. have fun13:51
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jaegerIs there any accepted choice between lib32 and lib64 for a multilib system?14:24
frinnstbinary apps usually look for 64bit libs in lib6414:27
jaegerI kinda like ubuntu's approach14:30
jaegerlib64 is a symlink to lib and lib32 is its own dir14:30
jaegerLFS does it the other direction, lib is 32-bit and lib64 is 64-bit14:30
jaegerMakes more sense to me for "lib" to be 64-bit on a multilib system since most of the things it does will be 64-bit14:31
frinnstindeed14:33
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prologicI agree with you jaeger14:46
jaegerfrinnst: in your purelib system is lib just named lib or is there a lib64 even without multilib?14:46
prologicon a 64bit or multilib system where the system is 64bit but can do 32bit it makes sense that /lib is 64bit libs14:47
jaegerprologic: yeah, I can't really think of a good reason to do otherwise14:47
prologicneither can I14:47
prologicperhaps the LFS standard is a bit out of date (hmo)14:47
prologicsince most systems these days _are_ 64bit14:47
prologicit's hard to get a 32bit brand new box now :)14:47
jaegerreading the FHS it could go either way but 64-bit makes more sense14:48
frinnstjaeger: i have a lib64 -> lib symlink for compatability14:49
jaegerAh14:49
frinnstsince apps like flash required it14:49
jaegerThe reason I ask is that I'm going to build an LFS system to learn more about the multilib toolchain process14:50
jaegerBut I think I'll do it this way instead of their way14:50
teK_jue / tilman I'll just adhere to your orders ;)14:50
prologicjaeger, heh sorry I meant FHS :)14:51
prologicerr14:51
prologicnevermind :)14:51
jaegerprologic: :)14:51
prologicfrinnst, I'm guessing adobe don't have 64bit versionf of flash yet ?14:51
prologicI just woke up :)14:51
jaegerwell, for what it's worth, this wording:14:52
jaeger"The /lib directory contains those shared library images needed to boot the system and run the commands in the root filesystem, ie. by binaries in /bin and /sbin."14:52
frinnstthey used to, but due to their incompetence in fixing a security bug, they removed it completely14:53
jaegermeans to me that 64-bit is /lib (essential)14:54
jaeger32-bit stuff isn't essential to boot on a 64-bit multilib system :)14:54
jaegerI suppose if your 32-bit system were able to build 64-bit binaries it would go the other way but I don't see that being common14:55
prologichey hey14:56
prologicwhat's this multilib crap anway :)14:56
prologicif you have a 64bit system, why would you want anythign 32bit :)14:56
prologicunless of course it's flash and they don't have 64bit versions :)14:56
jaegerwine is the only thing I really need, the rest I can do without14:56
jaegerWith that said a pure64 system seems incomplete to me in some way14:56
jaegerEven if I didn't NEED 32-bit binaries it would annoy me that I couldn't run them :P14:57
jaegerWhich is really a stupid artifact of the entire x86 arch14:57
prologicwell this is true14:59
prologicbut it's because folks in the IT industry love backwards compatibility14:59
prologicand don't "keep up" (tm)14:59
prologicuseless sods :)14:59
prologicI for one hate backwards compatibility14:59
prologicit holds us back :)14:59
teK_ever worked in a 'corporate' environment?14:59
prologicyes and I hate it :)15:03
prologicand that's no excuse btw :)15:03
teK_it is15:04
jaegerFor some machines I could use a pure64 system no problem but there are a few instances where I need wine. fortunately not often15:04
teK_it'd rock if adobe'd release 64bit flashplayers again *facepalm*15:05
jaegerheh15:15
jaegeryay! /tools/lib/libc-2.12.so:   ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, not stripped15:17
jaeger/tools/lib32/libc-2.12.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (GNU/Linux), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, not stripped15:17
jaeger/tools/lib64/libc-2.12.so: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, not stripped15:17
jaegerlib64 is symlinked to lib so it seems happy15:17
frinnsti still use their old owned player with flashblock15:17
jaegerman, I actually have my system load up around 5.1 with this15:31
jaegerbootstrapping CRUX in a chroot and building LFS in a VM15:31
jaegerstill have about 10 cores not working hard, heh15:32
teK_:o15:32
teK_I pity you15:32
prologicteK_, I appreciate your comment - but I still strongly feel that corporates should have better responsibility for the affect they play on the IT/Engineering world and how much they hold it back :)15:36
jaegerdoh! my cross gcc didn't like me changing lib, I'll have to figure out what I left out there15:38
teK_jaeger:  did you use crosstool?15:38
teK_prologic: yeah but mind time and money constraints..15:38
prologicno, just money15:39
jaegerteK_: nope, crosstool hasn't been updated in ages15:39
jaegereven crosstool-ng didn't work15:39
prologicI imagine most corporates don't want to spend the "money"15:39
teK_yeah but you always could update version numbers (which wont work...)15:39
jaegerI started out trying that and tried buildroot as well, ran into failures everywhere15:39
teK_respect if you got it working, jaeger..15:40
tilmanare you saying you still have crosscompiler issues? or did you resolve them?15:40
jaegertilman: I've never had mine working 100% :) Still learning15:41
jaegerI am definitely a cross-compiler newbie15:41
jaegerteK_: I'll get there eventually :)15:41
tilmanjaeger: i have ports for an arm crosscompiler. maybe you can adapt the port for your needs15:41
tilmanhttp://git.code-monkey.de/?p=crux-arm-cross-compiler.git;a=summary15:42
jaegerI'll keep it in mind, there are a zillion websites about ARM cross-compiling15:42
jaegerthe multilib part is the tougher thing for x86_6415:42
jaegerthanks15:42
tilmanyeah, and there's two zillion different arm flavours ;)15:42
teK_jaeger: me, too but I got *nowhere* :)15:43
jaegerteK_: that's not too reassuring, heh15:47
jueteK_: btw, what's your problem with ck4up?16:02
teK_I get "diff" for *each* sourceforge port16:03
teK_which is really sucky.16:03
teK_I already delete ~/.ck4up16:03
prologichey what do you guys think of CRUX officially changing to and supporting 64bit architectures as opposed to 32bit (which is current) -- and supporting (officially) 32bit (but not the main focus)16:05
jueadjust your rules? Most of my sf ports works with -> @SF_STD@  http://sourceforge.net/projects/@NAME@/files/  @TAR@16:05
prologicSay, CRUX 2.816:06
prologicnext year16:06
teK_jue: will try on thurdsday, thanks16:06
teK_i use something with @SF@16:06
teK_I am not at home right now16:06
jueprologic: fine, if we get the manpower to do so, I for myself _need_ 32bit for several boxes so it's my primary focus16:11
prologicsure, i realize this might affect some cruxers16:13
prologichowever I feel that 64bit systems seem to be the norm these days16:13
prologicand so we therefore should think about (at some point) moving crux to 64bit16:13
prologicand supporting 32bit on the side16:13
prologicas it is now, we do it the other way around16:13
teK_flash and wine are the only shitty exceptions16:14
juewell, my newest toy is a netbook with atom cpu ;)16:14
prologicthere will always be exceptions16:14
prologicbut that doesn't mean we can't move to 64bit for the mainstream crux iso images and what not16:14
prologicjust a thought16:15
jueyeah, that's ok, we have to think about such things but we have to be realistic as well16:17
prologicjue, and if it's any consolation, I'll be keeping this PC/Desktop as 32bit CRUX16:17
prologicbut I plan to buy a new PC?Desktop which I'll install 64bit CRUX on to16:17
prologicI think if we get more users that have 64bit systems and encourage them to use and test frinnst's ports and iso images we'd be one step closer16:18
prologicmyself included16:19
prologicI've been slack :/ my PC/Desktop is an AMD 64bit system but I never installed 64bit CRUX on it (ever)16:19
juesame here, but I cannot install 64bit on it because I have to maintain/test our CRUX on it ;)16:21
prologicsure :)16:22
prologicI'm not saying now...16:22
prologicbut perhaps we should consider this for CRUX 2.8 or 2.916:22
jaegerI'm fine with moving to 64-bit as the primary focus. It would not be difficult to keep supporting 32-bit, I can always work 32-bit in VMs16:40
jaegerbut all my hardware is 64-bit now16:40
prologicsame here16:40
prologicand running 32bit in a vm is not hard16:41
prologic"just to maintain it" per say16:41
jaegeryay, bootstrap is done on my newly rebuilt 2.7 build environment16:52
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jaegerfrinnst: I was able to install 2.7-rc1 x86_64 on the "bad" box just now, so I've got some ideas where the problem might be18:35
jaegerI took the RAID controller out as well as the older video card and I'm using a video card I borrowed from work at the moment18:35
jaegerHope my RAID controller isn't going bad, I'm rather fond of it =/18:54
jaegerNot cheap to replace :P18:54
jaegerwell, so far the machine is behaving19:52
jaegerguess I'll put the RAID controller back in so it can do a snapshot tonight and see if it continues to behave19:53
jaegerwell, shit. put the RAID controller back in and it immediately started crashing again20:02
jaegerhrmm, wonder if it's caused by the RAID array being magically moved to the first device20:41
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