IRC Logs for #crux-devel Thursday, 2011-11-17

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frinnstjaeger: have you done any changes to the default kernel-config on the iso? might i suggest turning on evdev and build scsi-disk support not as a module?02:38
frinnstseems like those options are common pitfalls02:39
Romsterthough the iso has a initramfs how about a config file for the common settings next to the kernel tarball and not have to use the iso config file?03:18
frinnstyeah perhaps.. but just changing those two things will lower the amount of install related questions in #crux04:29
frinnstmost people that run crux know they need their scsi/sata controller and filesystem built not as modules04:29
frinnstbut people still trip up with no mouse/keyboard in X after install04:30
frinnstand scsi-disk support.. well, maybe thats just me.. but i bloody always forget it! :)04:30
Romsterbecause everyone that uses the iso config file also does not compile in the required modules.04:33
frinnstwell, those things is pretty much all you need to change to get a working kernel (controller and fs)04:33
Romsterxorg evdev needs evdev in kernel i've memorized.04:33
Romsterpartition table support04:34
frinnstjust installed crux in a VM.. didnt need to change that04:35
Romsterit'l become bigger when we are forced to use GPT than MS-DOS partitions.04:35
Romster4TB disks are just about to hit the market.04:36
frinnsttrue, but disks are *EXPENSIVE* at the moment04:36
Romsteralso true and don't i know it...04:36
Romsteri see em at work.04:37
Romsterordered a few recently. if i had known i would of ordered heaps before the flood.04:37
Romsterlike i ordered heaps of ram before that price increase the last time.04:37
frinnsti found a 2TB drive in a local shop the other days.. they lagged behind with their pricing so it cost only half as much as dealers with more up to date prices :D04:38
Romsteryeah if oyu find any of those snatch them up04:39
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juefrinnst: have you seen my comment about our kernel-config at TODO28?06:32
jueit's the last part of the page06:33
frinnstah, cheers06:37
juenot sure how to deal with that, best for the user would be to have a decent config IMO06:39
frinnsti dont think the current solution is that bad, actually.. you get most drivers included one way or another06:41
frinnstallowing ppl to do lspci -k etc06:41
frinnstit just requires a few tweaks to allow it to boot from a non-initramfs setup06:42
frinnstahci, scsi-disk and ext4 as non-modules would allow it to boot on pretty much all new systems06:42
jueok, make sense and doesn't hurt for our initramfs06:43
frinnstoh, and build evdev as a module and ppl in #crux wont complain about missing input in X :)06:45
jue:)06:46
juefrinnst: could you add your suggestions to TODO28, please?06:46
frinnstsure06:51
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jaegerfrinnst: are evdev and scsi disk support causing problems? I haven't really looked at evdev at all so don't know much about it but scsi disk support should be loaded by the initramfs08:43
jaegerI wouldn't be against including a sample config for people to use that doesn't use initramfs, for what that's worth, I think it was also in the TODO2808:44
jaegeryeah08:44
jaegerAh, I think I understand what you mean... you're not saying the install ISO has problems with evdev or scsi disk support, it's that users do :P08:45
Romsterusers that use the iso config and expect it to work.08:47
Romsteron a non-initramfs system08:47
Romsterperhaps there needs to be a README or something on there.08:48
Romsterjaeger, do you include man and man-pages on the iso? it's very anoying when i first used crux to refer to man pages for help on installing when they don't exist.08:49
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jaegerthey have never been included in ${ISO_PACKAGES} as far as I can recall08:51
Romsteri've never seen them on the iso ever but i would like to see it.08:53
Romsterimagine what was that option again ah man page.... man command not found...08:54
Romsterbut i guess no one uses man :D08:54
jaegerI haven't needed to reference a man page during an *install* in years08:55
jaegerI use it quite often after install08:55
Romsteri used it when i was new to linux.08:55
jaegerwith that said I have no problem with man pages being included08:55
Romsterbut i guess that was just me when i was more greenhorn.08:55
jaegerI used other systems that held hands far more than CRUX for years before I heard of CRUX, so I wasn't new when I came to CRUX08:56
Romsteri wasn't new but i was whenit came to doing everything manually to setup.08:56
jaegerfrinnst, jue: as far as the kernel config is concerned, I'd rather have setup copy a different .config into the installed system than change the initramfs config.08:56
jaegerI was a gentoo user when I heard about CRUX, so had plenty of manual practice, myself08:57
Romsterjaeger, i agree on sepeate config for the kernel use too.08:57
jaegerI started with an old red hat, then slackware, then a bunch of others and was pretty settled on gentoo when I tried CRUX08:57
Romsteroften overlooked stuff that would be helpful to a newish user, not that i am one now... but i did complain about no man command on the iso years ago.08:58
Romster2am yeash i better get to bed :D09:00
jaegernight09:00
frinnstjaeger: whatever is easiest09:18
jaegerPersonally I think it's easier if the user doesn't have to think about which things are initramfs-specific and not, easier just to give them a different config... Most users won't even know what initramfs is or how to tell, anyway09:20
jaegerJust my opinion, though, I'm open to opinions from others09:20
frinnstvery true.. i just thought it might be easier to change 2-3 .config settings on the initramfs-kernel that would help out ppl building their own kernel09:21
jaegerI guess it doesn't really matter, technically, if we change the initramfs kernel config or add a new one09:23
jaegerI'll have to change the init script but that's easily done09:23
juejaeger, frinnst: shipping the iso without an kernel-config is a option as well IMO, there's always 'make defconfig'12:27
jaegertrue12:28
jueTBH, never used it ;)12:28
jaegernor have I12:29
jueif we have to maintain manually two different configs, I'd go that way12:30
juejaeger: the config was always your work, so I'd leave it up to you to decide12:32
jaegerI've made slight changes to the initramfs config several times but it would be trivial to copy another one at install time12:35
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Romsteri would agree to adding a new one and leaving the initramfs kernel config alone, just my 2 cents.19:29
Romsteror omit it all together and use make defconfig but i haven't used that either.19:30
Romstermight be worth testing make defconfig19:31

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