| jue | good morning | 01:45 |
|---|---|---|
| jue | teK_, jaeger: the two are not really integrated, but after you've created a new accout FS sends you a confirmation email with some code you need to complete your registration | 01:51 |
| jue | hmm, I just say that you cannot register two accounts with the same email address, it would have been better to disable the spam user and not to delete the account | 01:57 |
| jue | s/say/saw/ | 01:57 |
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| jue | there's a new procps port in my private repo using the sources from debian, they forked procps because the original sources seems unmaintained | 03:57 |
| jue | please give it a try and report back, thanks | 03:58 |
| jue | btw, gentoo is using it as well | 03:59 |
| frinnst | tilman: reverting cairo may be prudent | 04:10 |
| Romster | i'm not noticing any cairo issues but i'm on binary nvidia driver | 04:13 |
| Romster | is it just the intel cards that get it frinnst ? | 04:13 |
| jue | nouveau is also but differently affected, it's unusable slow with new cairo | 04:24 |
| jue | but right, binary nvidia works without issues for me | 04:26 |
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| sepen | wondering about to start 2.8 branches for development, what do you think? | 05:22 |
| sepen | since kmod/udev/module-init-tools is one of the tasks to do in TODO28 | 05:24 |
| jue | it's still listed there because we have to think about it wrt setup-helper | 05:26 |
| jue | but right, make sense to mark it done ports/core section of TODO28 | 05:27 |
| sepen | imho 2.7 series should have the old stuff | 05:28 |
| sepen | we can just start the development in our boxes to test the new stuff | 05:29 |
| jue | do you know how far a 2.8 release is? | 05:29 |
| sepen | hehe | 05:29 |
| sepen | 2.8, ... 3.0 | 05:29 |
| jue | I don't know | 05:29 |
| sepen | well, me should start to decide what kind of stuff should be in 2.8 | 05:30 |
| jue | IMO the kmod thing is not a big issue | 05:30 |
| sepen | then discard things to 3.0 | 05:30 |
| sepen | jue: yep | 05:30 |
| jue | what's the difference between 2.8 and 3.0? | 05:31 |
| sepen | maybe x64 official? | 05:31 |
| sepen | or new rc-ng to me | 05:31 |
| sepen | well things that means big changes too | 05:32 |
| sepen | but we can start to mark for 2.8 the new udev/kmod + 3.x.x series of kernel, ... | 05:33 |
| jue | well, a glibc 2.15.1 release is planned for beginning of may, that might be _one_ reason to think about a new release | 05:34 |
| jue | sepen: TODO28 is a wiki, feel free to add stuff etc. | 05:35 |
| sepen | so we can start 2.8 branch for it | 05:35 |
| jue | before we start a branch for something we should know what we want | 05:35 |
| frinnst | rc-ng gets a -1 for me, for now atleast | 05:36 |
| sepen | jue: I like TODO28, but I'd like more to have all of that as filed tickes in FS, so I think that is easiest to change status for a ticket, for example from 2.8 to 3.0, etc. | 05:36 |
| sepen | you know, 2.8 milestone, etc. | 05:36 |
| sepen | frinnst: -1 for me, for now too, but don't seems a bad idea for the future | 05:37 |
| jue | sepen: for me the wiki page it's more comprehensive as long as I am the only person adding stuff to it | 05:38 |
| sepen | yeah :D | 05:38 |
| sepen | jue: you have the power! | 05:39 |
| jue | but at all I'm _very_ happy if someone else jumps in to help with all of that | 05:39 |
| teK_ | yeah I voted to help with rc-ng and did not forget about it | 05:41 |
| jue | to be more clear, I'm not the leader of our project, but as long as no one else is doing what needs to done ... | 05:41 |
| sepen | jue: TODO files are fine for me, but in most cases we can start to add 'those new ports' to a new branch in our development | 05:41 |
| jue | teK_: nice to hear that | 05:41 |
| sepen | maybe I can explain that right, sorry | 05:43 |
| jue | sepen: sure, but sorry, improvements in such areas are not our biggest problem at the moment | 05:44 |
| sepen | jue: I think you're the potential-leader now | 05:44 |
| jue | sepen: no | 05:44 |
| teK_ | i think leadership by getting shit done is a good dev-model :) | 05:45 |
| teK_ | * as long shit gets done | 05:45 |
| jue | teK_: agreed ;) | 05:45 |
| sepen | yep | 05:45 |
| sepen | well, I'll try the reboot now, later | 05:47 |
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| jue | wrt rc-ng: it's fine for me to keep our simple one, but we should find someone who takes care of it, because I get the impression that it's a bit too simple currently | 05:48 |
| teK_ | agreed | 05:49 |
| teK_ | at least parallel startup or the like should be available | 05:49 |
| jue | for me the whole lvm/mdadm/raid stuff is a bit hairy, mounting the different kinds of required virtual filesystems as well | 05:51 |
| teK_ | hairy? why? | 05:53 |
| jue | not sure if we do the right things currently | 05:56 |
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| teK_ | hm | 06:00 |
| teK_ | I understand that lvm has to be done, raid/md-stuff can be disabled via kernel-boot-parameter | 06:00 |
| teK_ | and: works for me[tm] | 06:00 |
| teK_ | but sure we could/should review that | 06:00 |
| jue | bbl | 06:15 |
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| jue | sepen: back to your initial question, I think it's to early for a 2.8 or whatever branch | 07:12 |
| jue | we should do that only when we start a new release cycle | 07:15 |
| jue | but the first thing for that to do is to start a 'official' arch discussion | 07:16 |
| sepen | hmm, just tried to find a way to share our development via git, or something | 07:16 |
| sepen | jue: +1 | 07:17 |
| jue | which development? | 07:17 |
| sepen | well maybe ports | 07:17 |
| jue | ah, you mean something for the procps port I mentioned above? | 07:18 |
| sepen | jue: just I was wondering to adopt a release cycle like the xfce guys does, but sounds dificult | 07:19 |
| sepen | yeah, in that mean we could work with new ports, or stuff | 07:19 |
| sepen | ATM the only way is to use your private repo for that | 07:20 |
| jue | well, for that a test repo should be sufficient | 07:20 |
| sepen | sorry, its dificult to me explain the concept | 07:21 |
| sepen | http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.10/roadmap | 07:21 |
| jue | sepen: yeah, I know you like such things much ;) | 07:23 |
| sepen | jue: I want to say something like ATM our -product- stuff is the one in HEAD, but we could just release the -TAG- we want | 07:23 |
| sepen | for example, I've two production boxes running postfix at office, so I can just sysup these boxes | 07:24 |
| sepen | maybe we could just say the released packages are fine for stable, right? | 07:24 |
| sepen | s/say/say that/ | 07:25 |
| sepen | sorry if I can explain the concept with my poor english | 07:25 |
| jue | sepen: maybe it's easier to explain the problems you see currently? | 07:27 |
| sepen | jue: think in production boxes running crux and a maintainer who wants to maintain their systems up to date | 07:28 |
| jue | yeah, and what's the problem with CRUX here? | 07:29 |
| sepen | stable method should use only packages relased in 2.7, 2.7.1, etc. | 07:29 |
| jue | isn't that what we try to do? | 07:30 |
| sepen | no, its fine, my question is that where is the point when development would be stalled before switching to new release? | 07:30 |
| sepen | so how many -new changes- should contain 2.7 branch before we finally switch to 2.8 or whatever | 07:31 |
| jue | why stalled? we always maintained two branches until we release the next version | 07:31 |
| sepen | yep I forgot that | 07:32 |
| sepen | but how we determined in the past, when is the time to switch | 07:32 |
| sepen | ? | 07:32 |
| sepen | can't remember it | 07:32 |
| jue | but the ongoing merges are a lot of additional work, so I always prefer short release cycles | 07:32 |
| jue | after we have a good feeling that everything is fine ;) | 07:33 |
| sepen | ah right, we used merges .. can't remember it, sorry | 07:33 |
| sepen | nah nah, sorry jue for loosing your time | 07:34 |
| sepen | *waste | 07:34 |
| jue | we mostly had one or two test-releases and at least one rc after that | 07:34 |
| sepen | yep, I need to refresh some concepts | 07:35 |
| sepen | the problem was that the first we created 2.8 the first we should start to merge lot of commits, and its really hard | 07:36 |
| sepen | in other words 2.8 should be created at the right time | 07:36 |
| jue | yeah, after the branch is created we have to maintain 2 branches in parallel | 07:38 |
| sepen | jue: you said you were not the leader, but guy, you'are the basis behind many things :D | 07:38 |
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| jue | well, I try to do my best and are fortunately able to spend quite some time for CRUX, but that's all, real development doesn't happen currently | 07:45 |
| jue | that's the main reason why I like rc-ng, it's new and there is a smart guy behind it | 07:47 |
| jue | TBH the second reason is more important ;) | 07:48 |
| jue | of course, that's only my opinion | 07:49 |
| jue | sorry, but have to run now, later | 07:53 |
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| Romster | i think sepen is looking at a stable and unstable dev version release scheme | 10:01 |
| jue | re | 10:25 |
| jue | Romster: I think our current scheme is the more like the stable one | 10:26 |
| jue | we do not add stuff that needs a lot of user action, like libpng for example | 10:28 |
| jue | within a release, I mean | 10:29 |
| jue | at all I think this has worked quite well so far, with only very few exceptions | 10:33 |
| jue | and recompiling the kernel with two new options isn't a exception for me ;) | 10:34 |
| Romster | though that has caught out a few users already | 10:51 |
| rmull | the udev thing? that one bit me | 11:13 |
| rmull | but it was quickly sorted. wasted time assuming my hard disk was getting furry. | 11:13 |
| jue | Romster: right, if you have any idea how we can improve the notify thingy | 11:21 |
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| jue | but at all we should keep in mind that we are CRUX and not a mainstream handholding distro | 11:22 |
| jaeger | I think something like the udev change would be a good candidate for news on the main crux.nu website | 11:32 |
| jaeger | As well as any other package updates that require intervention | 11:32 |
| jaeger | That would require users to read it, of course | 11:32 |
| jaeger | Perhaps another way would be to create a package that would automatically check the site for news in an RSS feed or something | 11:32 |
| jaeger | and print it in the motd | 11:32 |
| jaeger | Or perhaps not the motd since some people will have customized it but on login, at least | 11:33 |
| jaeger | Or alter pkgmk to print out a message if there's one included with that particular version of the port | 11:34 |
| jue | yeah, totally forgot our crux.nu website, would be good to have some more news there anyway ;) | 11:35 |
| jaeger | gentoo's portage prints those sorts of messages during the build and at the end, for example | 11:35 |
| jaeger | so there are a lot of options | 11:35 |
| jaeger | For kernel options we could even have a script check /proc/config.gz (if it exists) for things like DEVTMPFS | 11:37 |
| rmull | Why not just notify via the mailing list? | 11:40 |
| jaeger | It was posted to the ML, many didn't read it or weren't subscribed | 11:41 |
| rmull | Yeah, I guess I did read it. I misinterpreted it as just warning of an update, and I glossed over the critical kernel dependencies | 11:42 |
| rmull | Which was entirely my fault, not crux's | 11:42 |
| jaeger | I'm just trying to think of a way to make it hard to miss | 11:47 |
| rmull | The gentoo approach is a good one, IMO (disclosure: I am ex-gentoo user) | 11:51 |
| rmull | The other thing that might be added to the post-install process is alerting of a need to run a rejmerge | 11:52 |
| rmull | Since software versions make rely on different config file formats | 11:52 |
| rmull | (IMHO) | 11:52 |
| rmull | Gotta run. | 11:52 |
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| teK_ | my biggest wish would be to have a script to do 2.x -> 2.y upgrades | 14:34 |
| teK_ | I do not consider having to reboot my server to an ISO 'best practice' | 14:34 |
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