IRC Logs for #crux-devel Friday, 2012-06-01

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juewell, after reading the latest posts to hotplug-devel about systemd/udev 183 I completely lost the passion to do an udev update ;)05:36
juesee http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.hotplug.devel05:37
juethe best part from Kay Sievers is IMO this one:05:40
jueWe support stand-alone *operation* of the udev tools, but the build05:40
juesystem does not support a stand-alone *build*. The systemd tree needs05:40
jueto be built and udev picked out of it.05:40
frinnstso fucked up05:45
jueindeed05:52
jueI bet it will be more and more a pain to use udev without systemd05:53
juethat's from arch -> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.arch.devel/1756106:00
frinnstD-Bus should no longer be pulled into the shared stuff udev needs, but07:18
frinnstthe build-sys still requires D-Bus at configure time.07:18
frinnstwow07:18
frinnstit feels like a hostile takeover07:23
frinnst1) develop critical userland app.07:23
frinnst2) develop unwanted crap.07:23
frinnst3) merge.07:23
frinnst4) ???07:23
frinnst5) profit!07:24
jueyeah, might be nice to integrate libusb and the {usb,pci}utils as well07:27
frinnstalso emacs07:27
jueI hate it, it's completely against the unix way to split up things into small parts07:28
frinnstThis is the Unix philosophy: Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface.07:29
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frinnstI will rather go back to a static /dev than have systemd on my box07:52
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juefrinnst: me too07:55
frinnstbtw a "/sbin/btrfs device scan" in /etc/rc is probably a good idea in future versions. allows mounting by UUID or LABEL08:00
frinnstfstab entries have a tendency to get quite large without if you use many disks08:01
frinnst(you need to pass multiple device= in the options line)08:01
juefrinnst: adding a feature request in FS would be helpful, assign it to teK_, he is our rc volunteer08:04
frinnstsure. i'll look into the best way to do it first08:05
frinnstbtw, my raspberry pi should have arrived today08:05
frinnstbut they shipped it to the wrong fucking city08:05
frinnstvästerås instead of västervik08:05
frinnst%&!"¤08:06
frinnst</rant>08:06
juebbl08:08
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rmullfrinnst: Oh, damn, sorry to hear about the shipping mixup09:13
jaegerthat sucks :/09:20
jaegerseems like the raspberry pi release has been a real mess09:21
jaegerI wonder if it's possible to use nouveau for the console and the binary nvidia driver for X09:27
rmulljaeger: Yes, but you might have to unload nouveau module before loading nvidia and starting X or something09:31
frinnstno worries, will get it on monday \o/09:35
jaegerhrmm, that would be annoying, probably10:03
rmullit's like a three line script10:10
rmullmaybe there's a way for them to coexist - disclaimer, I only tried VERY briefly10:11
jaegernot difficult, I mean that the switching would probably be annoying10:11
jaegerI might play with it, we'll see10:11
jueprobably time to look closer at mdev, will do it the next days ;)10:35
jaegermdev works well for the install ISO but I have no idea how robust it is for live systems or systems with unusual configurations10:44
jaegerworth looking into, at least10:44
juejaeger: yeah, we should seriously look at alternatives for udev IMO10:47
rmullDoes anyone know of a concise list of reasons why systemd is bad?10:48
jaegerdoes prt-get have a "deps up to" kind of feature?10:48
jaegerfor example, I want to make an alternative wine port for some specific patches, so I want to do a depinst but not build wine itself10:48
jaegerall the deps up to but NOT including the specified port10:49
jaegersorta like apt-get build-deps or whatever debian has10:49
juermull: it's not bad, but it's far beyond KISS10:49
rmulljaeger: Just depinst all the deps in the pkgfile dependencies for wine?10:50
jaegerrmull: yeah, that works, it's just less convenient :)10:50
rmullor format the output of prt-get depends10:50
rmullactually, quickdep10:51
rmullbut trim the last word10:51
jaegeryeah, I've done that10:51
jaegerprt-get quickdep $PORT | sed 's/ $PORT //'10:51
jaegerprt-get depinst $(prt-get quickdep $PORT | sed 's/ $PORT //')10:52
rmullseems fine to me10:53
rmullbut not built into prt-get as you wanted10:53
jaeger'prt-get builddepinst $PORT' would be handy10:53
jaegernot required, obviously, but handy10:54
juermull: the first time I digged depper into lennarts code was with avahi, it was simply bloat compared to apples bonjour, and, TBH, I got the same impression with systemd and its components10:57
rmulljue: Yeah, he's got a bad reputation, at least within the communities in which I hang out11:00
rmullBut he's not the only contributor11:00
juesure, but the whole systemd design doesn't fit well to the CRUX ideas, at least IMO11:03
jueor better say s/design/philosophy/11:04
juermull: I never was really happy with udev as well, it's that kind of software where you have to expect problems with every new release11:11
juethey changed things in a incompatible way as they (=Sievers) like11:12
jueother, more serious projects, have different branches or at least some kind of rc-release for such changes11:13
juethat's just kinda infantile behaviour for me11:14
jue</rant> ;)11:15
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Romsterjaeger, prt-get depinst wine --ignore=wine does that work?19:14
Romsterbtw jaeger nogagplz has a patched wine verison that might already do what your after. http://romster.dyndns.org/linux/ports/crux/nogagplz//wine-warcraft3/Pkgfile http://romster.dyndns.org/linux/ports/crux/nogagplz//wine64/Pkgfile19:29
jaegerI made the port hours ago but thanks19:37
jaegeras for the ignore switch, it might, I'll test it when I have time... in a meeting now 3 hours after I should have left work19:38
Romsterovertime19:55
Romsterif the patch isn't some hack it could go in the wine in multilib.19:55
Romsterpersonally want to avoid ugly hack patches in the semi/official wine.19:56
jaegerIt isn't worth putting into the port, the wine people will fix it eventually21:06
Romsteras long as there aware of it. in winebugs.21:31
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