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| jue | sepen: I have no use for swig anymore, would you like to takeover the port? | 07:40 |
| sepen | yep since its a dep for subversion-{python,perl} | 07:47 |
| jue | Romster: oh, just saw that pyopengl dpends on swig as well, so you might be an candidate too? | 07:47 |
| jue | sepen: ok, thanks | 07:48 |
| sepen | np | 07:48 |
| frinnst | cleaning out opt? :) | 07:48 |
| sepen | I've installed another rc3 and worked just fine | 07:48 |
| jue | frinnst: only a little bit :) | 07:49 |
| frinnst | might clean out contrib as well, atleast the port thats been bugging me: vpnclient | 07:49 |
| frinnst | seems it has slipped through every release since per left :) | 07:49 |
| frinnst | untouched since 2004 atleast | 07:50 |
| Romster | the same maintainer also has pekwm and a bunch of others last i looked he was maintaining his ports. | 07:51 |
| frinnst | sorry. untouched since 2007 | 07:52 |
| Romster | or has that guy just silently left all his ports to rot? | 07:52 |
| frinnst | i have no idea who it is | 07:52 |
| Romster | Rene Lengwinat, rugek at dirtyhack dot net | 07:52 |
| frinnst | before my time | 07:52 |
| Romster | can't remember his nick on irc or if he was only contactable by flyspray email and then he was hard to catch up with too. | 07:53 |
| jue | he left us without any notice, IIRC | 07:54 |
| Romster | he has 8 ports in contrib | 07:54 |
| Romster | if that's the case i may as well pick up pekwm since i am using that. | 07:54 |
| Romster | not sure if i even use anything else of his. | 07:55 |
| frinnst | someone is already bumping pekwm according to git | 07:55 |
| Romster | why wasn't his stuff marked as unmaintained in the wiki ages ago. | 07:55 |
| frinnst | but the last commit he did seems to have been in 2008 | 07:55 |
| Romster | hmm | 07:55 |
| sepen | more ports to Orphaned list maybe, you can ask him via email | 07:55 |
| jue | there's a first attempt for 2.8 release notes, please have a look -> http://crux.nu/Main/ReleaseNotes2-8 | 07:57 |
| sepen | jue: are you the original packager for swig? | 07:58 |
| Romster | nope just pekwm is all i'm using out of that lot. | 07:58 |
| Romster | whos going to email the guy? | 07:58 |
| jue | sepen: yes | 07:59 |
| Romster | does he even have a key in git for contrib? | 07:59 |
| sepen | jue: just one thing, I'd like to have one point about --enable-kernel requeriment for the toolchain in 2.8 | 07:59 |
| sepen | s/toolchain/glibc/ | 07:59 |
| jue | sepen: good point, will add something | 08:01 |
| Romster | ugh now my firefox is acting up... | 08:01 |
| sepen | jue: at least its useful for chroot environments (I used to run chroot crux with safe-crux on my ubuntu laptop) | 08:02 |
| frinnst | whats wrong with firefox, Romster ? | 08:02 |
| Romster | dunno i might have a broken dep perhaps... or having two firefoxes 32bit and 64 bit on the same profile was a bad idea. | 08:03 |
| sepen | jue: and what about the udev decision? should we have something in rnotes? | 08:03 |
| frinnst | sepen: +1 | 08:03 |
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| frinnst | the fact that we will never use systemd should probably be mentioned | 08:03 |
| frinnst | make crux a safe haven for redhat refugees :) | 08:04 |
| sepen | yeah | 08:04 |
| Romster | we oppose all forces of systemd and pulseaudio :D | 08:04 |
| jue | well, I don't think that for such a statement the release notes are the right place ;) | 08:04 |
| frinnst | well in the announcement then :) | 08:05 |
| sepen | kill with power!!!! | 08:05 |
| Romster | weird now firefox loads up... took long enough | 08:05 |
| frinnst | whats the reason you have a 32bit firefox? | 08:05 |
| sepen | jue: ok, so where should be the right place for you? | 08:06 |
| sepen | jue: I've no experience with that :P | 08:06 |
| Romster | some deprecated video driver has been removed from xorg s/driver/drivers | 08:06 |
| Romster | xcb has been split up? or is that been like that for awhile now. | 08:07 |
| Romster | what about glu separate from mesa3d | 08:07 |
| sepen | jue: would be ok to add something about the migration from libungif to giflib? | 08:09 |
| sepen | jue: its only a port rename since both are ABI compatible IIRC | 08:10 |
| sepen | ahh no, sorry is not part of opt iso packages | 08:10 |
| sepen | my bad | 08:10 |
| frinnst | when is 2.8 expected? i've been a bit afk for a couple of days | 08:11 |
| frinnst | should probably get a x86_64 iso rolling | 08:11 |
| sepen | jue: did you see pitillo comments about bash the other day? | 08:12 |
| jaeger | jue: didn't get a chance to write the message last night, sorry. will do it this morning | 08:16 |
| frinnst | jaeger: when do you expect to start building a 2.8 final iso? | 08:17 |
| jue | Romster: thx, glu and xcb added somehow | 08:18 |
| jaeger | well, about to write the rc3 announce so people can test it but I think we're pretty close | 08:18 |
| jaeger | the changelog, release notes, and handbook had to be updated but I doubt the package content will change | 08:18 |
| jaeger | unless someone updates a port that needs to go on the ISO | 08:18 |
| Romster | i can't think of anything else. | 08:18 |
| jue | until now there's nothing important | 08:19 |
| Romster | i haven't been that involved in 2.8 release. | 08:19 |
| Romster | and i still have a ton of ports to unbreak. | 08:19 |
| jue | sepen: yes, I've read pitilo's comment, do you know what kind of problem he has with bash? | 08:20 |
| sepen | jue: yeah, he talked about to use --without-bash-malloc and use glibc's instead which seems better | 08:20 |
| jue | what is better? | 08:20 |
| sepen | jue: nowadays we're crosscompiling and seems he found something interesting on bash | 08:20 |
| jue | never had any issue with bash | 08:20 |
| sepen | can't remember now, maybe that bash's malloc in not maintained anymore | 08:21 |
| sepen | or obsolete | 08:21 |
| sepen | can't rememeber all sorry | 08:21 |
| jaeger | should we save that change for after 2.8's release or no? | 08:21 |
| frinnst | I've had lots of crashes with bash.. especially when rebuilding everything: prt-get update -fr $(prt-get listinst) | 08:21 |
| jue | well, it's still the default in bash | 08:21 |
| frinnst | that's why i use dash as /bin/sh | 08:21 |
| frinnst | well, thats the only time i've had crashes :) | 08:22 |
| sepen | jue: but seems that glibc can handle that and better | 08:22 |
| jue | jaeger: don't see a reason to do such a change now | 08:23 |
| jaeger | nor do I, really | 08:25 |
| jaeger | put it on the 3.0 todo list? | 08:25 |
| frinnst | yeah let it be for 2.8 | 08:25 |
| * frinnst builds bash --without-bash-malloc | 08:26 | |
| jue | well, I'd do the change only if it really fixes something | 08:26 |
| pitillo | hey, sorry. That comment was just for know a bit jue | 08:26 |
| sepen | jue: bash could be provided via 2.8 ports | 08:27 |
| pitillo | I was reading about that option, and I was out of curisioty about it, and asked here to see if someone knew about it | 08:28 |
| Romster | i haven't seen bash crash ever. | 08:28 |
| Romster | i do have kernel lockups sometimes though with binary nvidia video driver. | 08:28 |
| pitillo | no intention to make a change in bash really, just out of curiosity | 08:28 |
| Romster | just stating i've never seen any bash issues | 08:29 |
| pitillo | I've never experienced problems with bash neither, but reading lfs about it, seems they prefer to relay in glibc malloc functions instead of bash's malloc calls | 08:29 |
| sepen | jue: +1 for rnotes now | 08:30 |
| Romster | makes sense. but i haven't read that LFS for awhile. | 08:30 |
| sepen | pitillo: this problems appears in lfs doc from years ago (bash-2, ...) | 08:31 |
| jue | what I've read is that the bash malloc is faster | 08:32 |
| pitillo | good to know then jue | 08:34 |
| sepen | nah, thanks anyways | 08:34 |
| pitillo | sepen: it isn't from years ago SVN-20121015 (bash 4.2 with this patchset bash-4.2-fixes-9.patch) | 08:35 |
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| pitillo | btw, it was just out of curiosity, as I don't know so much about its development. Nothing important :) | 08:37 |
| sepen | pitillo: http://lists.diy-linux.org/pipermail/diy-linux-dev/2006-February/000734.html | 08:37 |
| sepen | pitillo: sorry I read that ^^ which is 6yo | 08:38 |
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| sepen | jue: why you dropped webfs? | 08:40 |
| pitillo | well, there is an explanation and it explains a bit the reasons, about using or not using it. Arguments from both sides. That's why I asked here about what does CRUX currently | 08:40 |
| jue | pitillo: the fact the LFS is using that option isn't a real reason for use to do the same | 08:41 |
| jue | I'm subscribed to the bash mailing list since a long time and never heard, IIRC, complains about the internal malloc | 08:42 |
| jue | at all, bash is one of the well maintained programs, IMHO | 08:43 |
| pitillo | yes jue, but their agument is a bit "hard" that's why I asked here (and highlighted you as I saw your port maintenance) to get maintainer decision/explanation, just curious :) | 08:44 |
| sepen | pitillo: you done well, IMHO, that's the point of trying to improve CRUX | 08:45 |
| sepen | all info is always welcome, later research and decisions ;D | 08:46 |
| pitillo | sure, improve CRUX and a little bit my small knowledge | 08:46 |
| Romster | agreed sepen | 08:47 |
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| sepen | jue: can I resurrect webfs to opt? I really like this port (100% of my crux boxes have it) | 08:50 |
| jue | sepen: sure | 08:50 |
| jue | pitillo: I've just looked at debian, they are using --without-bash-malloc only for building a static bash, not for the 'normal' version | 08:53 |
| jue | pitillo: anyway, thanks for the info, it's always interessting to see what others are doing and maybe frinnst comes up with new insights ;) | 08:56 |
| sepen | http://crux.nu/bugs/index.php?do=roadmap&project=1 | 08:56 |
| sepen | we could just move some tickets to 3.0 | 08:56 |
| jaeger | time to sacrifice the work laptop back to ubuntuland | 08:56 |
| sepen | jaeger: I've ubuntustudio for a year or so ;D | 08:57 |
| jaeger | I've been running crux on it for a long while but need ubuntu for it now | 08:57 |
| sepen | jaeger: another possibility is to run crux on a chroot | 08:57 |
| pitillo | jue: great, I've seen it and I've found some comments about static linking (in sepen's link there is note about it too). Thank you for the explanation too :) | 08:58 |
| jaeger | honestly I don't need more crux machines :) | 08:58 |
| jaeger | got plenty of them already, between real hardware and VMs | 08:58 |
| sepen | well chrooted environments on new safe-crux I'm preparing worked really fine | 08:58 |
| jaeger | I'm still running crux on my main workstation here at work anyway, just gonna switch the laptop | 08:58 |
| jue | I guess #780 is already implemented? | 08:59 |
| sepen | at least to build/test some ports its helpful | 08:59 |
| jue | jaeger: right (FS#780)? | 08:59 |
| jaeger | jue: yes, I was planning to close it with some comments when 2.8 is released | 08:59 |
| jaeger | though there's no reason it needs to wait until 2.8 | 09:00 |
| jue | ok, great | 09:00 |
| sepen | #743 and #780 to 3.0? | 09:00 |
| sepen | well all the others too | 09:00 |
| jaeger | I'll close #780 | 09:00 |
| sepen | thanks | 09:01 |
| jue | .oO FS#603 reminds me that we need a new maintainer for pkgutils :( | 09:02 |
| jaeger | pkgutils and prt-get both, probably | 09:02 |
| jue | FS#603 is easy to implement, but generally | 09:02 |
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| jaeger | #769 won't be an issue in 2.8+ | 09:03 |
| jaeger | It wouldn't hurt to fix the documentation for 2.7, though | 09:03 |
| sepen | we should edit at least tickets marked as 'due to 2.8' | 09:05 |
| sepen | jaeger: I'll file a ticket about rootfs changes in iso.git we talked | 09:06 |
| jaeger | ok | 09:07 |
| jaeger | there are quite a few updates since rc3 =/ | 09:14 |
| jaeger | I hate releasing like that | 09:15 |
| jue | oops, you mean iputils and man-pages? | 09:15 |
| jaeger | iputils, man-pages, glib, libpng, xterm, xorg-xf86-video-intel | 09:16 |
| sepen | uh | 09:17 |
| jue | well, what's the problem if we ship the old versions? | 09:17 |
| jaeger | There's no technical problem, I just don't like it :P | 09:17 |
| jue | ok, agreed :) | 09:18 |
| jaeger | In the end it doesn't matter whether the time from release to updates is 0s or days/weeks | 09:18 |
| sepen | how we could avoid that? | 09:19 |
| jaeger | No useful way, really, unless we did a freeze. No point in that, it's not worth it just for my opinion | 09:19 |
| jaeger | If it were a technical issue it might be | 09:19 |
| sepen | do a freeze is not easy imho | 09:19 |
| sepen | hmmm | 09:20 |
| sepen | what about to use another way to work in branches | 09:20 |
| jaeger | I was just answering the question, I don't think it's something we should do | 09:20 |
| sepen | I mean, instead of create 2.8 from 2.7 we can just create 2.8-rc1 from 2.7 | 09:20 |
| sepen | and increase the rcX until 2.8 be released | 09:20 |
| sepen | work in rcX branches instead of doing tags for every rcX | 09:21 |
| sepen | not sure if I explained that correctly | 09:21 |
| sepen | imho the problem is to work directly into 2.8 and use git-to-rsync since the first commit in 2.8, isn't that right? | 09:22 |
| jaeger | Well, we do start work in a new branch when the release is close, what would be the advantage of having all those tags for every rc? | 09:22 |
| sepen | tag is a snapshot in time IIRC | 09:23 |
| sepen | jaeger: did you mean we should start to work in 2.8 ports after released? | 09:26 |
| sepen | sorry I'm a bit lost | 09:26 |
| jaeger | We already work in 2.8 | 09:26 |
| jaeger | It hasn't been released yet but the 2.8 branch is where 2.8 development is happening | 09:26 |
| jaeger | I don't understand what you're asking, I guess, or suggesting | 09:26 |
| jue | sepen: there's no real solution to the main non-problem we have, we need some time between rcX and final and in the meantime upstream releases new versions nevertheless | 09:26 |
| sepen | so can we improve our work to avoid the problem? | 09:27 |
| jaeger | I don't think so, at least not in a way that's reasonable for us | 09:27 |
| jaeger | It's not a real problem, anyway | 09:27 |
| sepen | hmm sorry just I was trying to get the point | 09:27 |
| sepen | sometimes I'm a bit lost with my poor english ;D | 09:27 |
| jaeger | The point was that I was complaining, not that there's a real issue :) | 09:28 |
| jue | the point is that jaeger just announced rc3 and we have already newer versions of some progs in our ports tree ;) | 09:29 |
| sepen | I assume that if we were a company with many employees would develop differently, but we are few ;D | 09:29 |
| jaeger | yeah. I think the way we do it is probably the best we can for the size of the group | 09:29 |
| sepen | +1 | 09:29 |
| sepen | at the end is not a problem to download the iso, and see that people is working all days to improve ports, if you have some ports to update its a good new to me! | 09:30 |
| jaeger | I'll continue to make the update ISOs regardless | 09:30 |
| sepen | 2.7.1 was the updated one | 09:32 |
| jaeger | that was an official interim release, though, I'm talking about my updated ISOs | 09:32 |
| jue | I think it's not a matter of our group size but a matter of our goal to have always latest version available | 09:32 |
| sepen | yep, as described in the homepage | 09:33 |
| jue | but jaeger said it already in nice words: | 09:34 |
| jue | In the end it doesn't matter whether the time from release to updates is 0s or days/weeks | 09:34 |
| jue | :) | 09:34 |
| sepen | I know some old co-workers that used to download fedora4 and wait until fedora5 be released to update packages ;) | 09:36 |
| jaeger | heh | 09:36 |
| sepen | nah!, you are doing a good job and that spreads :) | 09:38 |
| sepen | bbl | 09:38 |
| jaeger | awesome... out of the box the amd video driver installer in ubuntu 12.04 fails :P | 09:52 |
| jaeger | worked after a reboot but that's not a reassuring start | 09:54 |
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| frinnst | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPD_RHVFlys&feature=related | 10:38 |
| frinnst | aussie kids-tv seems a lot more entertaining than swedish | 10:38 |
| frinnst | oh, wrong chan.. sorry | 10:39 |
| jaeger | heh | 10:40 |
| frinnst | hmm, my bash problems seems to remain: http://804d8dc8369cf899.paste.se/ | 10:47 |
| frinnst | back to dash | 10:48 |
| jue | how do you trigger this? | 10:53 |
| frinnst | by rebuilding everything: prt-get update -fr $(prt-get listinst) | 10:53 |
| frinnst | day to day use works just fine | 10:54 |
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| jue | frinnst: ever tried to debug this a bit deeper? | 12:04 |
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| jaeger | how odd | 12:45 |
| jaeger | do the faults always happen at the same times? | 12:45 |
| frinnst | jue: nah, never bothered | 13:32 |
| frinnst | jaeger: not sure.. but there are always a handful of segfaults when i rebuild everything | 13:32 |
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| frinnst | jue: btrfs-progs was tagged with 0.20-rc1 a few weeks ago. Also there has been some fixes recently. I'm using a snapshot from oct 4 | 15:52 |
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| pitillo | can someone check pciutils md5sum? | 18:19 |
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| Romster | pitillo, straight off the site cdb1e5a95ab7ac67349f10c8f77a6d3c pciutils-3.1.10.tar.gz | 20:41 |
| Romster | witch matches the .md5sum file. | 20:42 |
| pitillo | Romster: yes, and if you have old sources to check vs them... I didn't see any change here | 20:42 |
| pitillo | ah, it matches in your case | 20:42 |
| Romster | even one in my distfiles matches http://romster.dyndns.org/distfiles/ | 20:43 |
| pitillo | Romster: thank you for confirmation, I downloaded it and I got different md5sum and same sources | 20:44 |
| pitillo | I did something wrong here. I got it again and all seems right, sorry | 20:44 |
| Romster | probably corrupt download. | 20:45 |
| pitillo | strange thing as diff didn't found any differences between them... may be it's related to these hours. Sorry for the noise | 20:46 |
| Romster | np | 20:47 |
| Romster | happens to the best of us that double/triple check and still mess up. | 20:47 |
| pitillo | it's clear... I was getting sources from another site... my bad | 20:56 |
| Romster | oh interesting... | 20:59 |
| Romster | other site must have a old copy or hacked. | 20:59 |
| Romster | or corrupt. | 20:59 |
| pitillo | I couldn't see differences between them http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/utils/pciutils/pciutils-3.1.10.tar.gz | 21:02 |
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