IRC Logs for #crux-devel Saturday, 2014-05-10

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juegood morning07:55
juenice reading -> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lfs.devel/1529607:56
juebackground info: currently LFS installs systemd and provides both, systemd and System V as the init system, in the later case only the udev part of systemd is used07:58
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Romstersweet i sure hope LFS dumps systemd polkit crap...08:02
Romsteri can understand a nice notfication system is nice but dbus is still over complicated for a basic event system required.08:02
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frinnstlovely news jue12:02
frinnstjue: ah, now i follow the locale-maketext issue12:09
teK__but software will bind/ create systemd realted files12:09
teK__right?12:09
frinnstwhut?12:19
frinnstim updating perl 5.16.3 with locale-maketext 1.25 unless somebody objects12:20
Romsteras long as it don't break anything frinnst14:04
Romsterah pearl does not respect CC14:11
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teK__frinnst: there are some ports creating .systemd files and stuff, iff systemd is detected15:00
Romstersomething changed recently i updated machines and when i logged in the finger print had changed due to the sysup of something.15:00
frinnstteK__: yuck, how ugly. What's in those files? binaries?15:01
RomsterO_O15:02
Romsternot on any of my systems at least.15:02
Romsterwont have systemd anywhere near me15:02
Romsterwhat are they systemd's equivalent of the .gir files :P15:03
frinnstI wonder if the majority of the gnu/linux community has gone insane (the systemd supporters) or if its me/us that are insane15:03
Romsteri sure hope LFS drops systemd polkit....15:03
teK__I pipe stdout to /dev/null so I often see messages like "no systemd detected!!11" but I cant remember which from the top of my head15:04
Romsteri think the majority don't seem to care.15:04
frinnstsure. the majority of users probably doesnt care "as long as it works"15:04
frinnstbut all distro developers etc should15:04
teK__frinnst: I did some software development and you could witness the exact same tendency to introduce piles of bloat just because its vendor promised it to do $FANCY_STUFF15:04
Romsteri for one don't want the junk :/15:04
teK__and you know systemv is old so it has to be replaced15:05
teK__new hotness in soft. eng.: dependency injection15:05
teK__oh and no. Don't ask.15:05
frinnstyeah I guess15:05
Romsterpersonally if systemv isn't doingit's job there are countless other inits that are lightweight not like systemd.15:05
teK__my impression is that those people just love to avoid doing the _real_ work (i.e. coding) :)15:05
frinnstfine if redhat wants it, they want to control it. but others? why?15:06
teK__because their system is slow and systemd can speed things up?15:06
Romsterwhy is redhat forcing pulseaudio systemd dbus.... what else?15:06
teK__I was told that it will prepare sockets and logging before network etc. is available which is supposed to speed up starting network daemons (???)15:06
frinnstbecause they are behind it15:06
teK__and it does dependency resolution (yeah wow, super new stuff) which is required for systems used by non expert users :)15:07
frinnstyeah because it works so great in windows..15:08
Romsteromg i'm amazed... cough15:08
frinnstservices not starting because a dependency took too long to start15:08
frinnst<customer> why is our sql server down?15:08
teK__heh :)15:08
frinnstbecause windows update rebooted your server and failed to start it up again15:09
teK__:>15:09
frinnsthappened to two of our customers last time around..15:09
teK__oh and it can monitor and restart daemons, too15:09
teK__well jsut as daemontools does :)15:09
teK__I have two friends.. one is my personal UNIX guru and the other runs his own commercial router and vpn distro15:09
juea quote from the mail I've posted above: "it appears that systemd is a solution in search of a problem" ;)15:09
Romsterwho knew a watch dog timer could of been helpful. runit will keep checking a process every 60 seconds and if it had died/not started it will start it.15:09
teK__both prefer systemd :]15:09
teK__jue: 100% ACK15:10
teK__not restarting shitty / crashing daemons can be a feature, too...15:10
Romsteri don't know what problem systemd fixes to be honest.15:10
frinnstindeed. "lets just restart it, instead of fixing the crash"15:10
Romsterwasn't the old saying if it arn't broke don't fix it.15:11
teK__systemd is here to stay. That's a matter of fact so we better pray for the best :)15:11
teK__but our bros at gentoo.org have the same problem :))15:12
teK__and gentoo is quite common so eudev has a good chance if kernel/systemd folks don't fuck things up even more.15:13
Romsteri hope eudev works in the kernel.15:14
Romstersince systemd doesn't do wall on other arch types.15:14
Romsters/wall/well/15:15
Romsterthey only made eudev because of that reason.15:15
Romstercross tool compiling.15:15
teK__prologic: got bridge-utils to compile16:26
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teK__will pretty-fix it and push afterwards16:26
teK__the breakage was not caused by 3.1 btw16:26
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jaegerhaven't seen much feedback about rc1 yet, have you guys run into any big problems?17:57
jueno problems at all, did a fresh install yesterday, works smooth17:59
jaegerIt's been working great for me as well18:02
jaegerI think I'll rewrite the rc.d/net script just a bit, though, its current format isn't as clean as I'd like18:03
jaegerI could build an rc2 in the next couple days, perhaps18:06
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prologicteK__, awesome21:18
prologicjaeger, yeah no big problems at all really21:18
prologiceverything has gone as smoothly as any other version21:18
jaegerglad to hear it :)21:19
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