IRC Logs for #crux-devel Friday, 2014-10-03

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diversejue: yeah, and having both shells would modulize and optimize the system more. Also, if a user doesn't want to have bash installed, while swapping for another interactive shell, it's easier to do.04:52
diverseI'll be happy to see dash intergration as part of the TODO32 list04:53
Romsteri asked about dash being for core a very long time ago.08:31
Romsterseems things i ask for happen years late.08:32
Romsterlater*08:32
juegood morning09:37
juediverse: you got me partly wrong, currently I don't have in mind to switch every CRUX bash script like pkgmk, ports etc. to plain sh, so having bash installed is still a requirement09:41
juebut well, that's only my opinion09:41
Romsteri want to convert my core to dash but not enough time currently.10:33
Romsterbash is reallu bloated for a core port. but then i think some autotools require bash... due to all the GNU stuff.10:34
Romsterprobably pointless trying to change all that.10:35
Romsterprobably easier to just bump bash each time it gets a fix than break my system.10:40
jueindeed, what would you use as a interactive shell than, instead of bash10:40
jue?10:41
Romsterksh perhaps.10:41
Romsteri did toy with ksh a long time ago.10:41
Romstermksh*10:42
juewell, that's a big step down wrt comfort and functions, I wouldn't miss things like readline support and history10:44
jueif any than mksh is a candidate for /bin/sh but not more for me10:45
Romsteryeah it is a major step down but i havne' been able to get used to it yet. and really no one should be dong so much in bash there is ruby python perl for that.10:46
Romsterhaven't*10:46
Romsterstill can keep bash around for the odd script though10:47
Romstermksh is in core too i think...10:47
Romsterno contrib.10:47
Romsteri see you have tcsh10:48
juewell, TBH I don't really understand the whole bash discussion from a users point of view, for me a (x)-terminal and a shell are the most important programs at all ;)10:49
Romsterbash is slow and so huge its gonna have far more risk of security venerability's10:50
Romsterbut then everythign uses it... and removing it is like taking a lung out of a person.10:50
jueusing zsh might be an alternative, but it's no smaller/faster than bash10:51
jue*not10:51
jueRomster: what's the definition of huge in that context?10:51
Romsteri'm thinking just for the users shell. dash for core functionality. but it probably wont do for pkgmk10:51
Romsterin the end its just as easy to stay as GNU uses...10:52
Romsterwile i got your attention the whole core/libarchive/bsdtar and core/tar10:53
Romsterdo we relaly need tar can bsdtar replace core/tar?10:54
juewell, on my box RSIZE of bash is 3900K, not that much IMO10:54
juewhy should we remove tar from core?10:55
Romsterbsdtar provides the same functionality?10:55
Romsteror maybe not the same syntax.10:56
Romstereh similar stuff but not compatible options.10:57
Romsteri've got used to using bsdtar everywhere now10:57
juein the past we had several cases that a archive couldn't extracted by bsdtar, tar works10:59
Romstera ok. a fall back option.10:59
Romsterah*10:59
juehonestly, the tar binary is around 350K10:59
Romsteryeah true peanuts to today's disk size11:00
Romsterjust feels bad with duplication of similar use ports/binaries.11:01
jue:)11:04
Romsteri know i just nit pick.11:04
Romsteryou been around linux long enough as to why comrpess and gunzip use the same Lempel-Ziv coding? i always thought .tar.Z files were jsut .tar.gz but not quite the same?11:07
Romsteri know i'm firing random stuff tonight.11:08
Romsteroh a more important ting would be. wayland support it seems libav needs it unless i keep hacking it out on every version release. any reason we don't include wayland protocol?11:09
Romstercan we include it or should it be delayed to CRUX 3.211:09
Romsterwould require mesa3d and xorg-server picking up another wayland port dependency.11:10
Romsterother than that, legacy X11 protocols still work with wayland protocol11:10
Romsterthere for the newer stuff that can use wayland.11:11
Romsterbut then i had read in the past it's not that well stable yet... but that was awhile ago and i have not spent any time looking into it.11:11
Romstertoo much work not really got the patience and head space to think rationally.11:12
Romsterwhich is why i just do the occasional port bump/fix here and there lately and not much else.11:12
juesorry, never looked into wayland11:21
Romsterits basically another X11 protcol for clients to talk to xorg-server.11:22
Romsterthat runs aside the existing protocol.11:22
Romsterand programs are slowly being converted to support wayland11:22
Romsterhttp://wayland.freedesktop.org/11:23
Romsterbasicly all the apps get layered in the wayland compositor then the final image is displayed to the xserver11:25
Romsterfar less expensive than xdamange to redraw areas of a screen11:25
Romsterand removes the tearing issues11:25
Romsteri might be a little incorrect but its along those lines.11:25
jueok, thanks11:28
nrxtxRomster: do you have wayland ports around?11:28
Romsternope i haven't started yet.11:28
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Romsterwas thinking of making the change's and run it on my desktop.11:29
nrxtxhave some around but not cleaned up and uploaded yet11:29
Romstermind doing that? i can mess around with them.11:29
nrxtxit needs systemd for login into weston11:30
Romsterseriously no...11:30
nrxtxif not you need to run it with suid11:30
Romsterarn't we using suid still?11:30
Romster-rwsr-xr-xroot/rootusr/bin/Xorg11:31
Romsteryeah we are now.11:31
nrxtxRomster: wayland itself is clean of systemd only the default window manager touches it for login11:31
Romsterso can't see that a issue to us suid on wayland11:31
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nrxtxRomster: then its fine11:31
Romstersystemd just has a way around the suid stuff.11:32
nrxtxthe only thing i miss with wayland is the binary nvidia driver support11:32
Romsterto try and be more secure...11:32
Romsteroh crap i need that badly..11:32
nrxtxhavent looked into wayland the last months, don't know if there has been work by nvidia yet11:33
Romsterwure they haven't added it already. see that nvidia 340.46 is out.11:33
Romsterworth a look.11:33
Romsteri know of all this, just haven't tried it myself.11:33
nrxtxthe other thing i missed is a tiling window manager11:36
Romsterwell wayland is in 1.16.x xorg-server so nvidia better have it or be building it soon.11:40
Romsteri really haven't gone though tiling11:45
Romsternrxtx, you wanted some format of my version sort text file so you can use it? i havne't done anything as of yet.11:58
nrxtxRomster: hadn't a lot of time also, was only the question if you can keep the "repo/port" name combination in the front as you do for the url12:00
Romsteri'd have to alter the code a but but it's possible.12:02
Romsterbut/bit12:03
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nrxtxcurrently updating some old crux3.0 virtual machines so no hurry, i'll reworking the ui  before starting with more detailed information12:07
Romsterk12:08
Romsterwhat you have now is nice12:08
nrxtxtried to modifiy bootstraps color theme but that is hell12:09
Romsterhaha12:10
nrxtxso for now i'm stuck with the plain white theme if you have another idea just tell me :D12:12
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jueFYI, an overview about the fixed bash issues, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.shells.bash.bugs/2230016:16
frinnstheh, it is getting a bit hard to follow :)18:52
jaegershould I register crux.guru? tempting23:57
jaegertoo pretentious? :P23:57

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