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| diverse | jue: yeah, and having both shells would modulize and optimize the system more. Also, if a user doesn't want to have bash installed, while swapping for another interactive shell, it's easier to do. | 04:52 |
|---|---|---|
| diverse | I'll be happy to see dash intergration as part of the TODO32 list | 04:53 |
| Romster | i asked about dash being for core a very long time ago. | 08:31 |
| Romster | seems things i ask for happen years late. | 08:32 |
| Romster | later* | 08:32 |
| jue | good morning | 09:37 |
| jue | diverse: you got me partly wrong, currently I don't have in mind to switch every CRUX bash script like pkgmk, ports etc. to plain sh, so having bash installed is still a requirement | 09:41 |
| jue | but well, that's only my opinion | 09:41 |
| Romster | i want to convert my core to dash but not enough time currently. | 10:33 |
| Romster | bash is reallu bloated for a core port. but then i think some autotools require bash... due to all the GNU stuff. | 10:34 |
| Romster | probably pointless trying to change all that. | 10:35 |
| Romster | probably easier to just bump bash each time it gets a fix than break my system. | 10:40 |
| jue | indeed, what would you use as a interactive shell than, instead of bash | 10:40 |
| jue | ? | 10:41 |
| Romster | ksh perhaps. | 10:41 |
| Romster | i did toy with ksh a long time ago. | 10:41 |
| Romster | mksh* | 10:42 |
| jue | well, that's a big step down wrt comfort and functions, I wouldn't miss things like readline support and history | 10:44 |
| jue | if any than mksh is a candidate for /bin/sh but not more for me | 10:45 |
| Romster | yeah it is a major step down but i havne' been able to get used to it yet. and really no one should be dong so much in bash there is ruby python perl for that. | 10:46 |
| Romster | haven't* | 10:46 |
| Romster | still can keep bash around for the odd script though | 10:47 |
| Romster | mksh is in core too i think... | 10:47 |
| Romster | no contrib. | 10:47 |
| Romster | i see you have tcsh | 10:48 |
| jue | well, TBH I don't really understand the whole bash discussion from a users point of view, for me a (x)-terminal and a shell are the most important programs at all ;) | 10:49 |
| Romster | bash is slow and so huge its gonna have far more risk of security venerability's | 10:50 |
| Romster | but then everythign uses it... and removing it is like taking a lung out of a person. | 10:50 |
| jue | using zsh might be an alternative, but it's no smaller/faster than bash | 10:51 |
| jue | *not | 10:51 |
| jue | Romster: what's the definition of huge in that context? | 10:51 |
| Romster | i'm thinking just for the users shell. dash for core functionality. but it probably wont do for pkgmk | 10:51 |
| Romster | in the end its just as easy to stay as GNU uses... | 10:52 |
| Romster | wile i got your attention the whole core/libarchive/bsdtar and core/tar | 10:53 |
| Romster | do we relaly need tar can bsdtar replace core/tar? | 10:54 |
| jue | well, on my box RSIZE of bash is 3900K, not that much IMO | 10:54 |
| jue | why should we remove tar from core? | 10:55 |
| Romster | bsdtar provides the same functionality? | 10:55 |
| Romster | or maybe not the same syntax. | 10:56 |
| Romster | eh similar stuff but not compatible options. | 10:57 |
| Romster | i've got used to using bsdtar everywhere now | 10:57 |
| jue | in the past we had several cases that a archive couldn't extracted by bsdtar, tar works | 10:59 |
| Romster | a ok. a fall back option. | 10:59 |
| Romster | ah* | 10:59 |
| jue | honestly, the tar binary is around 350K | 10:59 |
| Romster | yeah true peanuts to today's disk size | 11:00 |
| Romster | just feels bad with duplication of similar use ports/binaries. | 11:01 |
| jue | :) | 11:04 |
| Romster | i know i just nit pick. | 11:04 |
| Romster | you been around linux long enough as to why comrpess and gunzip use the same Lempel-Ziv coding? i always thought .tar.Z files were jsut .tar.gz but not quite the same? | 11:07 |
| Romster | i know i'm firing random stuff tonight. | 11:08 |
| Romster | oh a more important ting would be. wayland support it seems libav needs it unless i keep hacking it out on every version release. any reason we don't include wayland protocol? | 11:09 |
| Romster | can we include it or should it be delayed to CRUX 3.2 | 11:09 |
| Romster | would require mesa3d and xorg-server picking up another wayland port dependency. | 11:10 |
| Romster | other than that, legacy X11 protocols still work with wayland protocol | 11:10 |
| Romster | there for the newer stuff that can use wayland. | 11:11 |
| Romster | but then i had read in the past it's not that well stable yet... but that was awhile ago and i have not spent any time looking into it. | 11:11 |
| Romster | too much work not really got the patience and head space to think rationally. | 11:12 |
| Romster | which is why i just do the occasional port bump/fix here and there lately and not much else. | 11:12 |
| jue | sorry, never looked into wayland | 11:21 |
| Romster | its basically another X11 protcol for clients to talk to xorg-server. | 11:22 |
| Romster | that runs aside the existing protocol. | 11:22 |
| Romster | and programs are slowly being converted to support wayland | 11:22 |
| Romster | http://wayland.freedesktop.org/ | 11:23 |
| Romster | basicly all the apps get layered in the wayland compositor then the final image is displayed to the xserver | 11:25 |
| Romster | far less expensive than xdamange to redraw areas of a screen | 11:25 |
| Romster | and removes the tearing issues | 11:25 |
| Romster | i might be a little incorrect but its along those lines. | 11:25 |
| jue | ok, thanks | 11:28 |
| nrxtx | Romster: do you have wayland ports around? | 11:28 |
| Romster | nope i haven't started yet. | 11:28 |
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| Romster | was thinking of making the change's and run it on my desktop. | 11:29 |
| nrxtx | have some around but not cleaned up and uploaded yet | 11:29 |
| Romster | mind doing that? i can mess around with them. | 11:29 |
| nrxtx | it needs systemd for login into weston | 11:30 |
| Romster | seriously no... | 11:30 |
| nrxtx | if not you need to run it with suid | 11:30 |
| Romster | arn't we using suid still? | 11:30 |
| Romster | -rwsr-xr-xroot/rootusr/bin/Xorg | 11:31 |
| Romster | yeah we are now. | 11:31 |
| nrxtx | Romster: wayland itself is clean of systemd only the default window manager touches it for login | 11:31 |
| Romster | so can't see that a issue to us suid on wayland | 11:31 |
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| nrxtx | Romster: then its fine | 11:31 |
| Romster | systemd just has a way around the suid stuff. | 11:32 |
| nrxtx | the only thing i miss with wayland is the binary nvidia driver support | 11:32 |
| Romster | to try and be more secure... | 11:32 |
| Romster | oh crap i need that badly.. | 11:32 |
| nrxtx | havent looked into wayland the last months, don't know if there has been work by nvidia yet | 11:33 |
| Romster | wure they haven't added it already. see that nvidia 340.46 is out. | 11:33 |
| Romster | worth a look. | 11:33 |
| Romster | i know of all this, just haven't tried it myself. | 11:33 |
| nrxtx | the other thing i missed is a tiling window manager | 11:36 |
| Romster | well wayland is in 1.16.x xorg-server so nvidia better have it or be building it soon. | 11:40 |
| Romster | i really haven't gone though tiling | 11:45 |
| Romster | nrxtx, you wanted some format of my version sort text file so you can use it? i havne't done anything as of yet. | 11:58 |
| nrxtx | Romster: hadn't a lot of time also, was only the question if you can keep the "repo/port" name combination in the front as you do for the url | 12:00 |
| Romster | i'd have to alter the code a but but it's possible. | 12:02 |
| Romster | but/bit | 12:03 |
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| nrxtx | currently updating some old crux3.0 virtual machines so no hurry, i'll reworking the ui before starting with more detailed information | 12:07 |
| Romster | k | 12:08 |
| Romster | what you have now is nice | 12:08 |
| nrxtx | tried to modifiy bootstraps color theme but that is hell | 12:09 |
| Romster | haha | 12:10 |
| nrxtx | so for now i'm stuck with the plain white theme if you have another idea just tell me :D | 12:12 |
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| jue | FYI, an overview about the fixed bash issues, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.shells.bash.bugs/22300 | 16:16 |
| frinnst | heh, it is getting a bit hard to follow :) | 18:52 |
| jaeger | should I register crux.guru? tempting | 23:57 |
| jaeger | too pretentious? :P | 23:57 |
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