IRC Logs for #crux-devel Wednesday, 2015-07-01

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frinnstRomster: i wasnt really complaining, just very surprised that cdparanoia got installed when a did a prt-get depinst <gst> :)06:29
frinnstbut maybe it came a cross that way06:30
frinnst(sorry)06:30
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jueRomster: you know, we don't patch for features, so let's wait for a official release ;)06:48
jueRomster: xz as default for what?06:48
frinnsthttp://940c28ea8e09e4f8.paste.se/ <- thats what made me react btw06:54
jueyep, gstreamer is a dependency monster, luckily I dont need it :)06:59
frinnstits not that bad if you trim it down07:00
frinnstI wanted to get x264 support in firefox because its getting inevitable07:01
frinnstI dont think we should change to xz by default (for packages or manfiles)07:30
frinnstlike it or not (i like it!), crux is used on stuff like rpi :)07:30
frinnstspending a day decompressing something like firefox to save a few mb of storage.. no thanks :)07:31
Romsterjue, xz compression as default in pkgmk for packages with the new libarchive feature to tell xz to use SMP mode... but there is no point in doing the xz as default unless libarchve is patched so forgetit... it'll have to happen in CRUX 3.3 unless libarchive happens to get updated before crux 3.2 is set in stone.07:56
Romsteri'll just keep using my patched libarchive for now, until it's upstream.07:56
Romsterin next version.07:56
frinnstso to get h.264/mp4 support in firefox i installed all the gst plugins (dont think they are all needed) and x26408:25
frinnstthats more or less all i think08:25
frinnst(the compat gst-ports)08:25
frinnsthttp://www.quirksmode.org/html5/tests/video.html08:27
frinnstmediasource still sucks in firefox though08:27
frinnsthttps://www.youtube.com/html5 <- Media source Extensions and MSE h.264/vp9. disabled by default i firefox. can be reenabled in about:config08:28
juefrinnst: I agree, xz is _much_ slower than gz and the SMP mode doesn't help much for older machines08:34
juehere's a old comparison from me for reference -> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.crux.devel/211708:35
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Romstereyah but more modern machinees it flys09:08
Romsterhow old do we wanna support ? we are on core2 or faster now09:08
Romsterbbl09:08
jueRomster: if you look at my test you'll see that even on a 16 core machine xz is slower09:17
jueRomster: it's easy to configure xz in pkgmk.conf, so it makes no sense to use the slower method as default IMO09:20
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Romsterxz --threads=009:57
Romsterwill use 16 cores if you have 16 cores09:57
Romsteri was talking about a patch that is upstream already for libarchive to pass that option to xz09:58
Romsternevermind09:58
Romsterxz is /solwer/ until you use /multiple cores/09:58
Romsterslower*09:58
Romsterhence the patch i linked too earlier and stated it also needs a define set to compile and use it09:59
Romsterwhat part of that did i omit to mention?09:59
Romsteror did i not link the url10:00
Romsterhttp://crux.ster.zone/ports/romster/libarchive/10:00
Romsterno i did link it earlier...10:00
Romsterif i am still not clear then sorry10:01
Romsteri have to learn to word my sentences better.10:01
frinnstxz is not faster than gzip. threaded xz might be faster if you have 16 cores as opposed to gzip only utilizing 110:03
frinnstbut on laptops, boxes with shit cpu's and on arm devices it will still be hopeless10:03
frinnstthreaded xz will be great and i use xz as the default compressor for pkgs on perhaps 50% of my computers10:04
RomsterI SAID THREADED XZ10:05
Romsterpatches for libarchive to pass --threads=0 to xz10:05
frinnstbut I think gz is the better default10:05
Romsteruse as many cores as your system has10:05
frinnstyes I understood you10:05
Romsterjfc10:05
Romsterjue based his results on a single  core10:05
frinnstbut if you only have one core on a vm or whatever it will not be faster10:06
Romsterhow many people have a single core pc anymore10:06
frinnstand i was talking more of the speed per cpu usage10:06
frinnstwell in a vm its very common10:06
frinnston arm it is still common10:06
Romsterand VMs you can assign mroe than a single core too.10:06
frinnstand utilizing 100% on all cores on a laptop on battery might not be very desirable10:06
Romsterwe don't do the arm branch of crux here.10:06
Romsterthis is all x86_64 hardware10:07
frinnstadding another core may cost you money10:07
Romsteri'll just use my own libarchive like i said until new release is out.10:07
Romsteri just thought it may be a wanted feature10:08
Romsteri figured wrong.10:08
frinnstsure it is10:08
frinnsti've played with it too10:08
Romsterpeople that have slow hardware can revert to gz10:08
frinnstor people with faster hardware without limitations can opt to use xz :)10:09
Romsterbut we dn't patch features so can't do anything until new libarchive is released. i decidedto try it now since i do many docker containers.10:09
Romsterthought it be a nice default since machine's are so fast now.10:10
Romsterthis machine is something like 4 years old...10:10
Romsterhow old do you want to support as a default.10:10
Romsteri already package the big packages for those less fortunate10:11
Romsteri know it's nice to support older hardware... but how old is sane?10:14
Romstersomething that takes a day to compile just the kernel?10:15
Romsterkeep the default as is. i can use the faster better compression10:16
jueRomster: still, even if you have a 4 core cpu, gz is 4 times or more faster than xz11:02
jueit has nothing to do with older hardware11:03
jueRomster this is plain wrong as a general statement -> 11:58 < Romster> xz is /solwer/ until you use /multiple cores/11:08
Romsterthe fact is i'm using xz for packages from docker containers for older machines uploaded to my site for others convenience. xz save space and time to transfer...11:09
Romsterso i speed it up with SMP now through libarchive so pkgmk benefits it.11:09
juesure, if disk space is important11:09
Romsterand downlaod speed11:10
Romsterwhy don't we just use lzo or plain tar for default?11:10
Romsterif speed is the main factor11:10
juewhat do you have against gz?11:10
Romsterheck lz4 is faster than lzo now.11:10
Romsternothing...11:11
Romsterxz provides better compression and i have 10 or so docker containers building stuff and big packages take for ever to compress using xz on single coere hell i used to use pigz for gz compression in pkgmk that's even faster again11:11
Romsternevermind i even brought up this topic.11:12
frinnstwhy? discussions/debates are a good thing(tm)11:12
jueRomster: at all xz uses much more resources than gz, it needs a lot of memory and cpu power for it's better compression11:14
Romsterwho hasn't got 4gb or more of ram now?11:15
Romster8GB in this machine most even have more than that11:15
frinnstI have 6, 4, 2, 16gb11:16
Romsteralso we are not using best xz compression that requires that much ram...11:16
frinnst8gb on this work box - but it runs so much I dont have that much to spare11:16
juedon't get me wrong, I like xz much, but we should use it where it is appropriate11:16
Romsteryou want ram hog use -911:16
Romsteri thought packages was an appropriate place11:17
juee.g. xz is not very efficient for small files like man-pages11:17
Romsterwasn't aware of that back then.11:17
Romsterso gz is fine there11:18
Romstergz still works and all but large files xz11:18
jueRomster: have read the mail I posted above, look at the absolute numbers there: 4 sec vs 72 sec11:21
jueRomster: even with a 4-core cpu it's: 4 sec. vs 18 sec.11:21
jueand that's a lot IMO11:21
frinnsthttps://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/43711:22
juein practice it will be more than 18 sec. because of overhead etc.11:22
Romsterhmm ok11:31
Romsterguess my point is invalid due to overhead.11:31
Romsterso i drop my case as being exotic.11:31
teK__frinnst: mz favourite was (besides an init system using/configuring an ntpd): *.systemd.pool.ntp.org ("systemd isn't a distribution")11:52
teK__oh btw11:53
teK__I got an email today from china, claiming we were 'infringing' or colliding with copyrights because we use crux.nu as a domain11:53
teK__or better put: asking me for permission to rgister crux.{cn,com.cn,asia,...}11:55
teK__A company named "TLG Global Industry Company" was applying to11:55
teK__+register "crux" as its Trademark and the following domain names ( .asia/.cn/.com.cn/.in/.co/.hk/.com.tw/.tw etc..)11:55
teK__crazy chinese :P11:55
teK__I want to have 0.crux.pool.ntp.org registered for us :>12:00
teK__as promised:  http://www.openssh.com/txt/release-6.9 :-)12:36
frinnsthaha13:50
frinnstI get maybe one email per month from a customer asking if the email is legit (the china domain thing)13:59
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frinnstoh you beat me to it. was just about to push gcc :)16:58
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juefrinnst: sorry :)17:46
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