IRC Logs for #crux-devel Thursday, 2019-04-18

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frinnstOpenSSH 8.0 has just been released. It will be available from the07:17
frinnstmirrors listed at shortly.07:17
ryuohey IT folks. i just saw a whois record for a domain where the nameservers are subdomains of it. how is that possible? i thought you couldn't use a nameserver from subdomain of that domain.08:11
ryuospecifically, i mean and its nameservers:08:12
ryuoi thought this wouldn't work because they wouldn't be resolveable yet.08:12
ryuobut... how?08:12 ( ( (
Romsterns1 is in the same subnet as but then ns2 is totally in a different range.10:05
Romsterall 3 have there own A record ryuo10:06
Romsterbut what dishes out the sub-domain records?10:07
RomsterAny owner of a domain may delegate authority to anyone else. If I was the owner of, I could delegate authority for to you. Anyone can delegate their subdomains to other organizations. If you curious about the policies for a particular domain you'll probably need to find the correct contact for that domain.10:11
ryuoRomster: i found my answer in #networking.10:14
Romsterwhat was the answer since i am not in there.10:15
ryuoTLDR: "glue records"10:16
ryuoRomster: did you hear about the recent security flaw in Microsoft's azure platform?10:17
ryuoIf you have your DNS hosted there, it's possible for other people to create cloud instances that effectively create subdomains under your domain.10:18
Romsteryes i have but not had time to read about it in depth10:18
ryuoThis is possible because Microsoft makes no attempt to validate that they even own or adminster the main domain.10:19
Romsterso someone just gave them permission to reassign?10:19
ryuoi could see people abusing it to defame the main domain.10:19
ryuoRomster: there's no safe guards in place period.10:20
ryuoafaik. the security researchers did it to one of microsoft's lapsed domains.10:20
ryuoi could see phishers using this.10:22
ryuoif the main domain is hosted on Azure's platform.10:22
ryuoit would be a great advantage in appearing legitimate.10:23
RomsterIn the DNS, Microsoft has the DNS name pointed to Azure.10:27
RomsterAzure then has that name pointed to a bucket which just happens to have the same name. It could have any name. If Microsoft deletes the bucket (or other resource), anyone else can create one that happens to have the same name.10:27
Romsterbasically someone made a new bucket of the same name after the old one expired.10:27
Romsterthat's really Azure than dns10:28
Romster"Microsoft was NOT in control of what their OS was obtaining from that address. They hadn't lost control of the domain, but they had lost control of the content."10:30
Romstermakes a whole lot more sense.10:31
Romstermore to the point way was microsoft using azure than there own hardware to host that?10:33
frinnstit is their own hardware :-)11:50
Romsterif that's the case how was it possible.11:56
frinnstthe lazy part seems to be the domain they chose to hardcode in windows. From what I gather its sort of a free-for-all domain that each customer can use.11:59
frinnstit was probably "hey lets use this for now and change it later before we start to sell the crap"11:59
pedja'temporary hacks are permanent'12:01
pedjavmware live migration seems to be the main obstacle to people buying epyc cpus. (r/sysadmin thread)12:04
pedjaand the fact that large oem's sell a gazillion intel servers and 1-3 amd ones :)12:05
frinnstyeah you cant mix amd/intel in a cluster12:06
frinnstyou need to power down the guest to move it. usually not a major issue if you plan on moving the entire cluster to a new AMD one12:07
frinnstbut people are not trusting AMD on the server side and with good reason. They didnt release any server stuff for like 4-5 years until epyc12:07
frinnstso if you ran an amd cluster you were fucked12:07
frinnstalso windows licensing seems a lot more expensive due to epyc being multi numa nodes12:08
frinnstwhat you save in hardware you end up giving to microsoft12:08
pedjagreedy bastards :)12:09
frinnstand as you said there are no epyc hardware available pretty much12:09
Romsterepyc with ECC ram support?12:10
pedjasomeone in the thread suggested basically lying the vm's on which cpu they are running12:11
pedjacan't remember what it's called in vmware12:11
Romsterio wonder how long before virtual CPU'12:11
Romsters are used in VM12:12
Romsterso the process can use one or more real cpus/cores and be stopped and started on another.12:12
pedjawhat do you mean, virtual cpu's?12:12
frinnstthey already are. with vmware evc you can specify what "cpu" you are using. so it disables any extra instructions that the hardware is capable of12:12
pedjaah, evc. that's it.12:13
Romsterabstract all the calls to the real cpu so it can be migrated with in a few clock cycles12:13
frinnstthats pretty much how it already works12:13
Romsterah right i am not up on vmware12:13
pedjalibvirt has something similar12:13
pedjaset the 'default' cpu across all machines exposed to vm's12:16
pedjait can scan all of physical cpus and figure out which virtual cpu is the most, I guess, compatible one, across them12:18
pedjathe thread was started by an AMD employee working in server group, looking for feedback from people actually running the stuff :)12:20
pedjaone of the interesting ideas is that AMD should enable vGPU even on 'consumer' level, so people can play with it12:21
pedjawrt availability, epyc cpus/mb are, apparently, extremely hard to get in EU, for DIY/home lab tinkering12:25
pedjatl;dr is 'give us 3-4 generations, so we know you are here to stay, and we *will* buy a shitload of them'12:28
Romsteryeah heaps of cpus and not enough mobos for them.12:29
pedjathat was another interesting complaint, broadcom lan on them :)12:30
pedjathey can't put intel ones on them, and mellanox is bought by nvidia, so what's left?12:32
pedja1/10+gig nics12:32
ryuocan we just go ahead and make the joke?12:35
ryuoit's an epyc fail.12:35
Romsterthey are trying... give them some credit12:35
RomsterSFP on the eypc would be nice12:37
pedjafinally. new vulkan-sdk drops12:39
Romsteri was wondering when... seems to take them forever12:40
ryuoI'm *not* cleaning that up.12:40
frinnstthere are lots of nic vendors12:47
frinnstchelseo or whatever they are called do good stuff12:47
frinnstbut OEM will put their "own" stuff on there. usually rebadged intel chips12:47
pedjaRomster, sdk goes thru an additional in-house testing at google/khronos/etc, so it takes some time :)12:49
pedjabuilding against external spirv-* is still not merged, thou, some issues with linking. maybe next time :)12:51
Romsterwell that is a good thing to make sure no mistakes12:52
pedjayes, and that's why I use that instead of 'vanilla' tagged release12:52
Romsterspirv headers are included? do we need that external header port or can the headers be exposed?12:53
pedjathey ship with glslang, afaict12:53
Romster i used that to make vkd3d work12:54
pedjaI'll have to test that12:55
Romsteryeah i did see glslang seems to download it as a git sub-module12:55
Romsterwondering if that be better to use and drop spirv-headers12:55
Romsteri haven't tested.12:56
Romsteri'm still trying to all my ports up.12:56
Romsterto fix*12:56
pedjaspirv headers shipped with glslang are different, spirv-headers port ships the unified ones12:57
Romsterno idea what that difference is12:57
pedjame neither :)12:57
pedjaI guess its legacy/new hotness thing12:58
Romsteri am guessing dxvk and spirv and vulkin are pretty much excremental12:58
Romstererr s/excremental/experimental12:58
pedjaheavily developed still, yes12:59
Romsteri did figure one goofball thing i did wrong.12:59
Romsterthat required me to reboot twice to get nvidia blob working on new kernel.13:00
Romsteri forgot to run depmod -a13:00
Romsterand that is ran as part of the boot up process.13:00
Romsterin one of the rc.* scripts13:00
Romsteras i don't use gl-select anymore because of glvnd, i totally didn't think of depmod13:01
Romsterand mesa will quite happily use software rendering and chew my CPU for it.13:01
Romsterbut it did give like ~600 frames per a second on glxgears13:02
Romsterwonder what supports wayland and is it even worth trying yet13:03
RomsterLOL ryuo13:05
Romsteri think we could move to #crux for the general chat stuff.13:06
pedjavkd3d needs unified spirv-headers, and glslang isn't shipping them atm. I wonder if I can hack it to include the full set :)13:12
pedjaI have spirv-headers port that does, but I am not sure if glslang will build with them. something to test13:15
pedjathe issue upstream is building/linking with spirv-tools fails. hm13:15
pedjaand, of course, glslang pulls the 'blessed' git hashes of them before build. a bit of the mess :)13:17
Romsteryeah, i would prefer if the source of that can be in the Pkgfile itself.13:20
pedjatagging proper releases of spirv and friends, so they go nicely with sdk update, is on the upstream's TODO13:20
RomsterI have a lot of things on my TODO list :P13:20
Romsterwhen ever they get done is another thing13:21
Romsterbut thanks for the work pedja i can't handle everything.13:22
pedjayou have a lot on your plate, glad I could help a little :)13:23
pedjavulkan is an interesting tech13:25
pedjaif I had the hw, I'd tackle rocm next, but :)13:25
Romster looks interesting13:27
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pedja*lots* of moving parts :)13:35
pedjaand I am not sure if all the relevant parts are merged into llvm/clang yet, so that complicates things13:37
Romsterooo that's talking heavy painful stuff right there.13:39
Romsterand i thought i was nuts to pick up on rust13:39
pedjaso I am not surprised that the developer hired by AMD to work on opencl in blender is using amdgpupro drivers13:39
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Romsterwell looks interesting not sure what use i'd have for that and i keep using nvidia stuff currently. until i find something that works in wine steam and stuff. for me.13:41
pedjaat the moment, nvidia is still a better choice on Linux if you use compute or whatever, because cuda13:42
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pedjanot sure what's the state of vulkan with amd, too13:43
pedjaI have said before, amd cpu's are a no-brainer majority of the time these days. gpus? well, it depends13:45
RomsterAMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor, is what i am still running.13:48
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Romstermaxed it out now at 16GB ram 8 wasn't cutting it anymore.13:48
jaegerbroadcom nics are totally fine for most workloads13:48
jaegerdell and others have sold intel-based servers with them for ages13:49
Romsteri can't say i've hit any issues with broadcom13:50
Romsterbut i don't see a lot of broadcom hardware, it's mostly realtek13:50
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Romsterand synaptics touchpad13:51
pedjagit question: if I have a branch in which I work on port updates, do I merge it or rebase it on master before pushing to contrib?13:57
pedjaI'd like to avoid people yelling at me for useless merge commits in repo history :)13:59
Romsterfetch and rebase is what i do14:00
pedjajaeger, how good are broadcom nic Linux drivers? never used them14:01
pedjaRomster, so switch to master, fetch, rebase branch-work on it, push?14:02
pedjaI really need to set up a playground git repo on Bitbucket14:03
Romsterwe don't use master on crux git. just the branches for origin/3.4 and the new origin/3.514:03
Romsteryou switch to origin/3.4 then git pull . <your branch name>14:05
Romsterto pull in all the commits. or cherry pick them.14:06
Romsteri would suggest looking at gitk --all and git log before even git push14:07
Romstergitk needs tk before git is built though14:07
jaegerpedja: totally fine. Been around forever]14:08
jueI'd suggest tig as a git browser ;)14:08
pedjajue, thanks14:08
pedjayes, tig is pretty nice14:09
pedjaI am used to being the only user of the git repos, this collaborative thing is still new to me :)14:11
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