IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2006-05-09

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vertahhttp://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/linux-european-threat-to-our-computers.html02:54
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mike_kvertah: are they really serious abot it?03:11
mike_kcan't believe that03:12
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rxilol .. old news03:12
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vertahmeh no idea03:45
vertahold news, like last month? :P03:46
rxiyeah get with the times man03:49
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treachdammit, what's up with wget? Now it started printing a new line every 50th KB again..03:59
rxiits in loggin mode04:00
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treachwhat.. new feature? A flip-flop controlled logging mode? :-/04:00
rxilol .. prt-get does it04:01
treachok..04:01
rxiturn of logging in prt-get.conf and it should be ok04:01
treachyeah, I'll try that.04:01
treachNever thought those two could be connected..04:01
rxiyeah04:02
rxitook me a while to work it out04:02
rxilucky cptn was on hand04:02
treachIf it hadn't been such a disconnect it would be a bit more obvious, since that was the one and only thing I really changed lately.04:03
treachor at least a bit less obscure.04:04
rxiyeah04:04
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liloconfrandom question, I have alsa built in kernel, and the needed ports installed, root can use the card, other users can't is there something aside from adding a audio group that I need to do?04:07
treachyep04:08
treachunmute.04:08
liloconfheh04:08
liloconfnot the issue, but funny, i used alsactl already to unmute, mplayer rebuilt with asla support can't access the card as a basic user04:09
liloconfthough root works fine04:09
liloconfany thoughts?04:09
treach...add your user to the said group?04:09
liloconfdid that04:09
treachls -lh /dev/sound04:10
rxithe mplayer -ao changed from alsa-something-or-other to plain "alsa"04:10
liloconfbash-3.00$ ls -ls /dev/sound/04:10
liloconftotal 004:10
liloconf0 crw-rw---- 1 root 70 14, 12 May  9 01:58 adsp04:10
liloconf0 crw-rw---- 1 root 70 14,  4 May  9 01:58 audio04:10
liloconf0 crw-rw---- 1 root 70 14,  3 May  9 01:58 dsp04:10
liloconf0 crw-rw---- 1 root 70 14,  0 May  9 01:58 mixer04:10
liloconf0 crw-rw---- 1 root 70 14,  1 May  9 01:58 sequencer04:10
liloconf0 crw-rw---- 1 root 70 14,  8 May  9 01:58 sequencer204:10
liloconfand yeah i figured that part out with mplayer.. it's just a s a basic user mplayer is like no soundacard found, when root it works fine04:11
liloconfand i checked my udev rules and all looks good to me04:12
pitilloliloconf, which is the group for that device?04:12
liloconfgroup is set as audio, which i created and added the users that needed access...04:13
pitilloliloconf, I cant see it in the device?s properties, can be a bad udev configuration?04:14
pitilloliloconf, I dont understand your question, ty here04:16
liloconfsorry, if mit's possible that my config is messed up is there a way to rebuild udev's conf or start froma  template somehow?04:17
treachstrange, but it looks like you've found your problem04:17
treachhmm....04:18
treach0 crw-rw---- 1 root 70 14,  0 May  9 01:58 mixer04:18
treachO RLY?04:18
liloconftreach: sorry i'm tired, could you just tell me whats wrong so i can laugh at myself for missing a detail and fix it :)04:19
treachI don't really know. but did you remember to log out after adding the group and your user to that group?04:19
liloconfyeah, even rebooted and all that04:20
treachok.04:20
rxidoesnt it need to be rw-rw---?04:20
treachno04:20
treachthe permissions is fine, but the group is screwed up.04:20
treachs is/are04:21
liloconfyeah looks it to me as well, any suggestions on a fix04:21
rxicrw-rw-rw-  1 root root << mine but mt user is in root04:21
treachyou naughty boy.04:21
liloconfheh04:21
rximeh blow me :P04:21
treachliloconf: I suggest you ask jaeger when he shows up, he's our udev guru.04:22
treachMeanwhile maybe google could assist. Since I don't have that problem, it's hard to guess.04:22
liloconftreach: yeah i seem to always end up bugging him when i need help... and yeah me and google are working as we speak04:23
treachpresumeably you could look through the udev rules wrt the audio stuff and see what they say.04:23
treachs the/they04:23
treachgood :-)04:23
treachliloconf: does SUBSYSTEM=="sound", GROUP="audio" look familiar?04:26
liloconfyes04:26
liloconfits at the top of my alsa section04:26
treachhm, I thougth so.04:26
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liloconftreach: that's the way it should be right?04:28
treachI don't know why but I  get a feeling this somehow isn't necessarily related to udev..04:28
treachI've seen this problem before, in some other setting, but I don't remember the circumstances.04:29
liloconfyeah this is the first time i've had such trouble getting things going... though last time was with devfs04:30
treachwhat's the gid for your audio group?04:31
treach70?04:31
liloconfit's 101 now, i reset it04:32
treachok, and the devices list what? 101 or 70?04:32
liloconf10104:32
treach:-/04:33
liloconfthough i did get a weird error of sorts when i last rebooted, udev was complainging about a kernel something on 3 lines in my rule file, though they were all scsi related :)04:33
liloconfstarted after i last rebuilt/ updated my kernel04:34
treachI know, the last update of udev seem somewhat shakey. I get some fuse related errors, but no scsi though.04:34
liloconfyeah... well im going to kick around a bit more and try another reboot... i have a feeling i'll be back shortly04:35
treachgood luck04:35
liloconfyeah heh thx04:36
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treachliloconf: Just a stab in the dark, but do you have all the dependencies installed?04:43
liloconftreach: yeah, i rebooted and now it works... i'm lost, happy it works but now im pissed since i have no idea why it wasn't working a second ago..04:44
liloconfhowever the rights on the /dev/sound got set to root, audio as it should...04:44
treachlol04:44
liloconfhehe04:44
treachI know why it didn't work..04:45
liloconf??04:45
pitillothe reason was the group of the device. the problem is why disapear it04:45
treachor at least I think I know.04:45
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liloconfindulde me04:45
liloconfindulge me04:45
treachI think what was missing was a simple kill -HUP `pgrep udevd`04:46
treachor in other words, udevd needed a kick in the pants.04:47
liloconfhehehe now that i think about it, i agree... god i hate computers :(04:47
liloconfheh04:47
liloconfnote to self don't try and fix something after going out to the bar ;)04:48
treachheh. don't try to fix *anything* after visiting the bar, I'd say.04:48
liloconfheh, yeah.. my gf just told me from the other room i should go to bed before i break something... words of wisdom04:50
treach:-)04:50
liloconfok po, thx for the help for what it's worth04:50
treachnp.04:51
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Senecatreach: http://pr0n.se/crux/alternative_install/05:08
Senecaany thoughts?05:08
rxithat looks ok .. might want to send something to the ml so it get noticed05:11
treachnot immediately.05:12
treachbut it certainly looks useful for those with ultra-light laptops.05:12
treachhowever, I'm not sure I'd download an iso for my system from a place calle "pr0n".. :P05:14
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Senecahaha05:23
Senecathat's why I link to crux.nu and the torrent ;) and there are md5 sigs too you know ;)05:24
treachI know. but still ;-)05:24
Senecayou're just jealous ;)05:26
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pitilloAm I the only one having problems with crux.nu ?06:26
vektoriHmm, no.06:27
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vektoriThere goes to gateway!06:28
rxilol06:28
vektoris/to/the/06:28
rxii cant access it but my dsl can be dodgy06:29
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rxilooks like his connection died :(06:30
vektori:(06:30
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rxithe more i use gentoo the more i like having multiple versions of ebuilds available locally06:34
vektoriThe more you use gentoo the more I hate you.06:37
rxiaww :(06:37
vektori:)06:37
rxidw its just one hppa machine cos i dont want to learn *bsd06:38
vektoriThere's not much to learn.06:39
vektoriIt's like Linux but consistent.06:40
rxiyeah .. ive used them before .. too much mental exertion required :)06:40
vektori:P06:41
Senecavektori: feel like adding a guide on the crux wiki?06:42
vektoriSure, if it's good. :)06:43
Senecavektori: http://pr0n.se/crux/alternative_install/06:43
treachbah, *bsd is less mentally taxing than gentoo. :-/06:44
rxitreach: once you get used to it .. the gap between crux and gentoo is less than crux to *bsd06:44
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treachI don't agree. portagee has just driven me nuts too many times.06:45
vektoriSeneca: Thanks, I'll have a look at it later.06:45
Senecaok06:45
rxioh i agree its the worst package management system ive used06:46
Senecarxi: you can't install binary packages for instance06:46
rxiSeneca: ?06:46
treachpackages are masked, blocked, obstructing, fucking up other packages or the damed thing is justa PITA in general. :-/06:46
Senecarxi: different builds for different machines06:46
rxiok im lost06:47
Senecaaw, fuck it06:47
SenecaI'm tired.06:47
* rxi too06:47
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jdolanhm, ports -u contrib anyone?07:29
jdolanping crux.nu even?07:29
jdolani have to get into the office, bbs.07:29
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rxilol07:30
jjpkThe whole thing is hosed. :p07:36
Seneca"13:26 < pitillo> Am I the only one having problems with crux.nu ?" Guess it's been down for a while07:37
rxiyeah07:37
rxithe guy that hosts it has lost his connection07:38
Senecawho's hosting it?07:39
rximaverick07:39
Senecahmm, seems like his isp died too07:41
Senecahogsbynat.se07:41
Senecanope07:42
Senecait up07:42
rximore likely his subnet07:42
Senecacrux.nu it up again07:42
Senecais*07:42
rxik07:43
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rxijdolan: hey man .. maverick's connection went down before, should be back up08:04
jdolanah cool.08:05
s_warlockhi08:05
s_warlockhave a question last time i update openssl i did get alot of problems with gtk applications and so on. Have there been any problems with the new openssl package that is out in opt ?08:07
jdolans_warlock, prt-get update -fr $(prt-get dependent openssl)08:08
jdolanyou're right, it is problematic :-/08:08
jdolanhopefully openssl updates will be limited to iso releases, at least as often as possible.08:09
s_warlockjdolan: thanks will try it later08:09
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jdolanwhen i upgraded to crux-2.2 lots of things were broken by ssl.08:09
jdolanso yes, it's the same scenario, unfortunately :-/08:09
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sepenI need a password to see jaeger irc logs .... O.o`08:33
tilmantop secret ;]08:34
s_warlockjdolan: true08:36
treachtilman: just like this one? http://tilman.org It seems to be printed in invisible ink. :P08:38
tilmanRegistrant Organization:Tilman Reissfelder08:38
tilmanRegistrant City:Santa Monica08:38
tilmannot me!08:38
treachhehe, I know. :)08:38
rxilol08:38
rxiyou need a more unique nick :)08:39
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tilmanrxi: nicks are for 14 year old cs gamers ;)08:44
rxii thought you were :P08:45
tilman:D08:45
jaegertilman: /usr/share/icons works; I put the jimmac directory there and added default/index.theme to specify it08:47
tilmanah, cool08:47
tilmanjaeger: wanna add that info to the wiki page?08:47
jaegersure08:47
jaegerwant it in InstallingX11R7 or is there a separate one for customizing?08:48
treachadding some inherit stuff in index.theme is nice as well.08:50
treacheg08:50
treach[Icon Theme]08:50
treachInherits=Jimmac008:50
tilmanjaeger: there's no separate page yet. throw a dice08:52
jaegerI'll add it to the installing page for now to keep clutter down, we can always move it later08:53
thosjaeger, going to guadec?08:54
jaegerto who?08:54
thoshmm?08:55
jaegerexactly08:55
thosjaeger, are you going to guadec?08:55
thossimple :-)08:55
jaegerI repeat, to who?08:55
treachor "what"08:56
rxior where08:56
treachlike "gitmo", I guess.08:56
treach;-)08:56
jaeger@lucky guadec08:56
clbjaeger: http://2005.guadec.org/08:56
jaegerthos: no08:56
treachah, yes. Like I said. Just like gitmo.08:57
* treach takes cover08:57
jjpk"LIBERAL PROPAGANDA!!!11"09:00
treachnah, ideological prison with prayer sessions {allah akhbar!/death to kde!}, confiscation of personal effects (functionality), etc. ;-)09:03
rxilol09:03
jjpk:>09:05
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j^2hey all10:45
aonhey j^210:50
j^2hey aon10:53
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jdolanhttp://jdolan.dyndns.org/jaydolan/tmp/retex2.jpg11:52
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sepenI finished porting thunar http://crux.nu/portdb/index.php?command=viewport&name=thunar&repo=sepen12:32
ningo_http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyimages/819.jpg12:36
predatorfreakWhat the, vim 7.0 o.O12:44
* predatorfreak goes into uncertainy mode.12:44
predatorfreakNooo! :(12:48
predatorfreakThey changed my highlighting colours.12:48
ningo_http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=142277942798958895512:49
tilman:)12:49
ningo_the openldap patch fails to apply12:51
predatorfreakI want my dark blue hightlighting back :\12:51
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rehabdollwhy we fight is awesome13:03
rehabdollanother tip: fog of war: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317910/13:04
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j^2busy channel today eh?14:41
jjpkas always14:43
jaegerZZZ *snort* what?14:44
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j^2you know i havent gotten 2.2 to boot in side of Q, the mac verison of qemu :(15:10
j^2it's really freaking annoying15:10
vektoriWhat's the problem?15:10
j^2i dunno it just doesnt boot off the fake harddrive, i got the iso to install and all15:11
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j^2it's really odd15:11
j^2anyone played with q here?15:11
marojaeger: lol, what's up with that commit message? ;)15:11
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vektorij^2: You tried -hda crux.img -boot c?15:12
jaegermaro: I somehow managed to commit a completely wrong version of the port the first time... so it seemed appropriate15:13
j^2it's all GUI based15:13
vektoriOh. :\15:13
marojaeger: hehe yeah, it just made me laugh :)15:13
marojaeger: you didn't bump btw, not sure if that's on purpose15:14
jaegerit was intentional. the previous rev wouldn't build anyway15:15
marook :)15:15
jaegerso it's unlikely anyone had it installed :)15:15
maroyeah :)15:15
jdolanheh, i *just* started using vim as my main programming editor..15:30
jdolanand now there's a major version bump.15:30
jdolanshould i plunge in?15:30
treachyes.15:31
jdolangood stuff?  no awful bugs?15:31
treachparanthesis matching ftw, no bugs detected yet. (by me, obviously.)15:32
treachpredatorfreak was whining something about his colors, but that's about what I've seen so far.15:33
predatorfreaktreach: I liked the syntax highlighting in 6.4 :)15:34
jdolanftw?15:34
predatorfreakBut other than that, fine.15:34
predatorfreakand I'll adapt over time.15:34
tilmanfor the win15:34
jdolan(i already have parenthesis matching, `set showmatch` in vimrc)15:34
tilmantreach: i agree. it's not as annoying as the jumping-cursor paren matching it had earlier (and probably still has)15:34
predatorfreakoh and the paranthesis matching will help me avoid a like of freaking bastard-ass mistakes.15:35
treachhehe15:35
jdolanah it's different.15:35
tilmanjumping-cursor == showmatch15:35
treachjupp15:35
predatorfreak-like +lot15:35
predatorfreakDang I'm tired.15:36
jdolanhm gvim hasnt been updated yet.  i'll hold for now.15:36
treachsissy. :D15:36
tilmanjdolan: just bump the version15:36
jdolantilman, i figured that might work.. bah wth, here we go.15:36
treachif you use vim, wth is the use of a gui for it..?15:37
tilmanhaha, tabs in console vim ftw15:37
tilmano_O15:37
jdolan(btw, anyone know how to prevent autoindent/cindent/smartindent from backing out blank source lines?  i like keeping them tab-justified within their scope)15:38
tilmantrailing whitespace is the root of all evil15:38
jdolantreach, for those of us leaning vim's ins and outs, the gui is handy ;)15:38
jdolantilman, i don't really consider blank lines as trailing whitespace :/15:38
treachyou'll never learn it properly if you are tied by a gui. :P15:38
jdolan(and there are worse things! =P)15:39
tilmanmmh15:39
tilmanmaybe i misunderstood? but i don't think so15:39
jdolanI LIKE THE FNCKING GUI OKAY15:39
tilman\t\t\n15:39
jdolan;P15:39
treachhehe15:39
tilman^^ trailing whitespace15:39
predatorfreakjdolan: The annoying this is when vim tries to fuck with syntax.15:39
tilmantreach: gui -> nice fonts15:39
treachbah15:39
predatorfreakI don't want it indenting my god damned for loops as it sees fit.15:39
tilmanprobably nicer colors15:39
treachtilman: terminus is nice enough.15:39
jdolanpredatorfreak, you might just hate python then :)15:40
predatorfreakjdolan: That I do.15:40
tilmanpredatorfreak: use cinoptions god damned loser15:40
predatorfreaktilman: cinoptions? o.O15:40
predatorfreakThis shit never even happened in 6.4.15:40
predatorfreakSo it's new to me.15:40
tilmanblablablabla15:40
jdolanall of the visual IDE's i've used (jedit, eclipse, codewarrior, editplus..) leave blank lines tab-justified to their scope.15:40
jdolanthus, i have over 60KLOC on jdolan.dyndns.org formatted this way.15:41
tilmanall of the visual ides you've used suck15:41
tilman:DDD15:41
jdolanthus, i'd like to not create large whitespace diffs just by switching editors.15:41
tilmanjdolan: help cindent15:41
tilmanjdolan: maybe you can turn it off15:41
treachjdolan: I bet you could fix some nice macro for vim to help converting that.15:41
tilmanjdolan: diff --ignore-all-space15:41
tilman:))15:41
predatorfreakset noautoindent15:42
predatorfreakset nocindent15:42
predatorfreakset nosmartindent15:42
jdolandoesn't really help with `svn commit` does it :P15:42
predatorfreakI turned off all the magic indenting in my .vimrc :\15:42
predatorfreakand it STILL insists on doing it.15:42
predatorfreakWhich PISSES ME OFF.15:42
tilmanjdolan: no, that's why trailing whitespace sucks :]15:42
jdolanpredatorfreak, the indenting is great.. except for backing out blank lines :/  i'll check the help.15:42
treachpredatorfreak: bah you could just as well just "set compatible" ;)15:42
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jdolantilman, you know what, i'm not the only person to ever use jedit, eclipse, editplus, ...15:43
predatorfreakjdolan: I don't like it assraping my syntax.15:43
tilmanUSE CINOPTIONS15:43
tilmanFFS15:43
tilmanjdolan: yeah15:43
tilmanjdolan: it's like emacs <-> vim ;)15:43
predatorfreakor I could just disable the feature entirely.15:44
predatorfreakas I hate it.15:44
tilmanyou can configure it so it uses your assraped syntax15:44
tilmando you realize that?15:44
jdolantilman, yea.  i've used jedit for years now and have no major complaints with it other than it's a bit slow to start and requires a jre =/15:44
tilmanif you prefer to indent manually, you're stupid15:44
jdolani think it's a bit foolish that i need to install a jre to edit c source :)15:44
predatorfreaktilman: Having it indent for me in the middle of a damned line is both annoying and stupid.15:45
predatorfreakI'm trying to work, not get annoyed by it's indenter.15:45
* jdolan wonders what strange coding conventions predatorfreak has ;)15:45
tilmandon't code while you're on acid15:45
tilmanjust a suggestion15:45
tilmanhas worked rather well for me15:45
ningodon't code at all?15:46
predatorfreakjdolan: A simple, no-frills readable syntax with only basic indentation.15:46
predatorfreakaka no fucking tabs driving lines miles long.15:46
jdolani'd totally live with the stripping of whitespaces if i weren't working on rather large codebases that already contain them.15:46
treachif you are off the page your code probably needs rethinking..15:46
tilmancan i kick him for not reading :help cinoptions?15:46
jaegerman, militant in here today15:47
tilmanjdolan: help fo-table might have what you're after15:47
jdolanright?15:47
jdolanit's the germans...15:47
jdolan;)15:47
tilmanyes15:47
treachtilman: considering you've got that @ i recon you could kick him for his mum turning you down... :P15:47
jdolantilman, i had a look at that yesterday.... and scratched my head and ate lunch instead :D15:47
tilmanhahahahha15:47
jjpk"ze Germans are comink! Fire our shit!"15:47
jdolanLOL15:47
tilmantreach: that's just a rumour15:48
tilmantreach: she didn't turn me down :P15:48
jdolan(treach could pass for a german when he cranks his sarcasm up)15:48
ningohe isn't?15:48
treachah, I knew I shouldn't have trusted teh internet to bring me the truth..15:48
jdolanhe's from per-land.15:48
jdolan(ningo, i rest my case tho ;))15:49
tilmanningo: you didn't notice his german is a bit too bad for a german? ;)15:49
treachtilman: that's actually flattering...15:49
ningoI know that he isn't german, I wanted to be sarcastic15:49
tilmantoo bad nobody got that :D15:50
ningoobviously15:50
bd2oh.. much activity here. It is how I understood that vim is updated :-))15:50
treachcalling my german *bad* is to be very generous.15:50
predatorfreaktreach: It never get's that way and I prefer my indentation method.15:50
ningobd2: yeah, all the emacs vs. vim trolls are coming out of the holes now15:50
predatorfreakIt's readable but not full of nutty tabs everywhere.15:50
jdolanoh yea, vim goes gay shit to block comments, too.  like pads the leading * with a whitespace.  wtf is that for?15:50
jdolanHUH MR TRAILING WHITESPACE?15:50
ningoI say, hang him from the highest tree15:51
treach"readability"?15:51
* jdolan fetches rope15:51
predatorfreaktreach: Ja.15:51
treachpredatorfreak: that was for jdolan.15:51
predatorfreakOh.15:51
* predatorfreak deletes above screw up from time :}15:52
treachpredatorfreak: I rather consider your nutty syntax problem your private business.15:52
tilmanjdolan: um15:52
tilman/* blah15:52
tilmanthat's good15:52
predatorfreaktreach: As do I.15:52
predatorfreakset cinwords=15:52
predatorfreakPerfect.15:52
predatorfreakNo more nuttery.15:52
tilmanvim adds the space for you so you don't have to15:52
* ningo has vim 6.3 anyway15:53
tilmanhelp formatoptions again :]15:53
jdolanwow treach i totally see your point: http://pastebin.com/70823515:53
ningono, 6.415:53
treachpredatorfreak: I'm no coder, but generally I get the feeling that when you are indenting your code off the page, something is wrong with the code.15:53
jdolanhaHAH pastebin even strips vim's gay leading whitespace from comment blocks.15:54
tilmanunless pastebin strips trailing whitespace i don't see your point15:54
predatorfreaktreach: I don't.15:54
ningojdolan: where's the difference?15:54
tilmanboah15:54
predatorfreakI just hate tabs for no apparent reason.15:54
jdolandefinitive proof that vim is wrong.15:54
predatorfreake.g one line into a if statement I have a freaking tab.15:54
jdolanpastebin says so.15:54
jdolano.O15:55
jdolanuh, yea.15:55
predatorfreakI prefer to just put a space there instead, more readable and less freaking nutty tabs.15:55
jdolanif(true) oneliner();  //like this?15:55
predatorfreakjdolan: Nah, shell script if's.15:55
tilmanjdolan: help formatoptions........15:55
predatorfreakOr shell script for loops.15:55
predatorfreaketc.15:55
predatorfreaktilman: I fixed it.15:55
predatorfreakset cinwords=15:55
jdolantilman, reading it for the last 5 minutes.15:55
predatorfreakKills it entirely.15:56
jdolanit may as well be in hebrew.15:56
treachhehe15:56
treachthe holy scrolls of the vim-cult. :P15:56
tilmanpredatorfreak: reading your output makes my head hurt tonight. go read the vim book o_O15:57
predatorfreaktilman: Meh, I prefer hand formatting.15:58
predatorfreakRather than automatic.15:58
jaegerjdolan: perhaps it makes more sense from right to left?16:01
* Han has tabs in screen :-)16:01
tilmanyou're so awesome :-)16:02
* jdolan attempts to look through back of laptop16:02
Hanc-a : hardstatus lastline  "%{-b ck} %?%-w%?%{+b}%n%f %t%{-b} %?%+w%? %= %l   %D %d/%m/%Y   %0c "16:02
jdolan;)16:02
jdolanaw tilman you brownnosed, cute!16:02
tilman._o16:02
j^2the way i learned everything about vim that i needed to was vimtutor and the help docs inside of vim16:03
j^2it took forever but i made a cheatsheet out of ti16:03
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jjpkIndeed, it takes a while to get the hang of it.16:07
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acruxmmh, cups 1.2.0 is out16:43
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bd2"/usr/ports/core$ svn diff | wc -l" -> 534. CRUX customization magic ;-)17:04
bd2most of diff is patches, but many configure lines changed as well17:05
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