IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2006-05-12

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prologic# useradd -g named -u 14 -d /var/named -s /bin/false named00:33
prologicnflg: 100:33
prologicuseradd: options -n and -g conflict and can't be used together00:33
prologicwtf ? (anyone ?)00:33
prologicI'm not using -g and -n :/00:33
cptnprologic: works for me00:50
cptn(useradd -g named -u 140 -d /var -s /bin/false named)00:50
cptnoh, wait00:51
cptnprologic: you probably have USERGROUPS_ENAB in /etc/login.defs00:54
cptnimplying -n00:54
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pitillogoodmorning. prologic I wrote a mail asking about a problem with amsn port. did you read it?01:09
prologicno I have not I'm sorry01:10
prologicI will get to it asap though01:10
prologicI've been offline for about 32days - just got back online01:10
prologicchanges are I'll have the email though, my ded box held them for me01:10
prologiccptn, yeah it's ok, worked it out01:11
prologiclittle quirk with 2.2 :)01:11
pitilloprologic, ok :)01:11
prologicI no doubt have to update my myth ports too01:12
prologicoh btw cptn, is my repo still being synced ?01:12
prologicRomster is suggesting that it isn't01:12
pitillowell, sepen talk about a port description (openal) may be a good idea to put the correct description in a contrib port01:12
cptnprologic: well, it's mentioned in the release notes01:21
cptnprologic: and in the handbook ("run rejmerge after update")01:21
cptnso it's not really a 2.2 specific error01:21
prologicno I know :)01:22
prologicmy router cacked itself last night while trying to get my home network back online01:22
prologicheavily corrupted fs, fsck made it worse, then grub was buggered :)01:22
prologicout came the crux cd :)01:22
cptnthe repo _should_ be synced to contrib01:22
cptnat least I didn't get errors, and it's not disabled01:23
prologicthen I"ll just kick Romster :)01:23
cptnhowever, I can't visit it right now in the browser01:23
prologichmm k gimme a day or two01:23
prologicstill sorting things out01:23
cptnsure, I'm just wondering why prtsync didn't send out a warning :-)01:24
prologiconly you'd know that :)01:24
prologicgah I need new boxes01:24
prologicP2 boxes don't quite cut it nomore01:24
prologictaking ages to tansfer 8000 emails from my backup mx01:24
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prologicnuffin :)01:34
Romsterwhat did i do?01:34
prologicdon't worry01:34
Romsterheh it wasn't synced last i checked01:35
Romsterany new stuff anyways01:35
cptnso you kinda expected him to update his ports while offline?01:38
prologicyeh I'm superman :)01:39
prologicRomster, prolly an internal thing, cptn assures me it's still there :)01:39
cptnthere are 120 ports in /home/crux/prtsync/work/prologic01:42
cptnso something is definitely there :-)01:42
prologicbtw congrads on the 2.2 release01:43
prologicbit late but oh well :)01:43
prologicremind me to have a place setup ready to move in to next time I move :)01:43
Romsteryeah but the new oens i added arn't in contrib despite the .sync files01:44
Romsternor are there any prologic.svnup files too after svn commits01:45
prologicprobably because it's not synced internally01:46
prologiccontrib syncs against the httpup repo (which is a working copy of the svn repo)01:46
cptnalso, is showing an nonexisting wiki page01:48
prologicit won't before long01:48
prologicjust fixed that up just then01:48
prologicbut you've visted already, so you'l have to wait for your nameserver to expire the cached entry :)01:48
prologicthankfully my TTL's are now 1day instead of 3 (dunnoy where that came from)01:49
prologicgonna go out (shopping) back later01:54
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sepengood morning cruxers!06:12
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Hanodd process:  ps auxww |grep '\-:0'08:13
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prologichi Han08:15
Hanah, that's X08:16
sepenHan, # Description: open08:27
sepen# URL:         http://openal.org08:27
sepen# Maintainer:  Han Boetes <>08:27
sepencan be description more descriptive?08:27
sepenlike that: cross-platform 3D audio API appropriate for use with gaming applications and many other types of audio applications08:28
marowhy not 12 lines?08:28
ningoblog it!08:28
maroeven better, podcast it!08:28
sepen# Description: Openal is a cross-platform 3D audio API08:29
maroyeah :)08:29
sepenbut not open!08:29
maroalthough I think it's OpenAL :)08:30
vektoriYeah, and there's no need to repeat the package name in the description.08:30
cptnjust use $name08:30
sepenbut Description describes the port08:30
maroCross-platform 3D audio API08:30
cptnerr ;-)08:30
* maro hates $name08:30
sepenvektori, yes like write maro08:30
Hancross-platform 3D audio API08:31
sepenthanks Han !08:31
maroactually I think it's unnecessary, we could use the dir name08:31
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marosince it isn't really variable anyway08:31
sepenmaro, finally Im running thunar without xfce408:31
Hancd $name-*08:32
marohow's that useful?08:32
HanDon't you see it?08:32
maroover e.g. cd fooapp-*08:32
sepenlike rox but it has a tree view08:32
HanBy joe, you keep amazing me.08:33
marowell, take a look at /usr/ports/contrib/p5-xml-writer/Pkgfile and see what kind of braindeadness $name comes with08:34
sepencptn, I write a script called 'portdb' -> Simulates one virtual repository that contains a list of selected ports from crux portdb08:34
HanYou have been counter rhetoricalled :-)08:34
marokeeping it simply, huh?08:34
cptnsepen: how does it cope with duplicates?08:34
Hanmaro, it _is_ simple08:35
sepencptn, it's like my cruxer but only for add and remove Pkgfiles , etc. to /usr/ports/portdb08:35
cptnsepen: so what problem does that solve?08:35
sepenand them I can use prt-get search if I add previously prtdir /usr/ports/portdb to config file08:35
sepenwith that I can use all ports in portdb without download entire repo08:36
sepenIm trying to find a solution por copy only ports/ form portdb that I need (and not appear on core opt contrib)08:41
cptnmmmh, I see08:42
sepenI too easy but I think prt-get could have this features08:42
cptnI think it's a rather bad idea08:43
sepenmm why?08:43
cptnsince it supports building inconsistent trees08:43
cptnX from that repo, Y from the other08:43
cptnall mixed versions etc.08:43
sepen/usr/ports/portdb/port --> /usr/ports/portdb/repo1/port08:44
sepenwith symlinks?08:44
cptnjust fetch the whole trees08:44
cptnand be done with it08:44
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sepenand that?: add= download port to /usr/ports/repo/port and fine tune prt-get.conf to prtdir /usr/ports/repo:port ???08:47
maroHan: I'd argue that using the name statically instead of ${capsname%%-*} is simpler08:47
HanFor you...08:47
maroyeah, I also tend to avoid major=5; minor=1; micro=2; version=${major}-${minor}-${micro}08:48
cptnyou're our hero08:49
maroI think you suck yoo08:49
HanI really find it practical and easy to read, and saves me a lot of work while porting yet another perl-module, and it works fine.08:52
HanSo if you don't like it that's just too bad.08:52
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maroI get the "ton of perl modules" argument08:52
vektoriIt would be easier to write a script which generates a clean Pkgfile for perl modules.08:52
vektoriNo need for hacks there.08:52
marobut in general, if someone can't bother writing the name of a package, it's hard to imagine how they'll bother maintaining the package08:53
marovektori: yep08:53
HanAre you done?08:53
maroI forgot who I was talking to08:53
HanThe guy maintaining those packages.08:54
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HanIt's a lack of your imagination,.08:54
maroyes, that's why I use crux08:54
marobecause I don't need that sort of obfuscation08:55
HanThen don't use my ports please.08:56
rxiwhen you plug a usb memory stick in dmesg should tell you what dev node (ie: sda) it has assigned it yeah?09:10
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cptnrxi: if you have usb mass storage support, yes09:11
rxiyeah i have but it doesnt assign it anything09:11
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rxiscsi and usb mass storage is all you need isnt it09:13
cptnscsi disk09:13
rxiyeah got that09:13
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rxihey danm09:43
jdolanit just doesn't get old...09:46
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j^2hey guys11:00
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j^2hey guys you around?12:32
j^2i need some help with something12:32
j^2i want to mount 3 drives under one directory is that possible?12:32
jjpkDon't know, never tried that.12:35
j^2i'm trying to find something on google about it but no luck12:36
j^2it's gotta be possible12:36
j^2it's almost a "fake" raid12:37
j^2but not really12:37
copworkwhat you need is lvm12:38
copworklogical volume manager12:38
copwork"multimount" is not possible because the new mount "overwrites" the old12:39
copworki think of problems with duplicates and inodes12:39
copworkbut lvm is doing what you need12:39
copworkglueing together different disks12:39
copworkI think you only have to manage the first disk with lvm before you "enlarge" it12:40
treachothere wise there is "append" mode with md.12:41
copworkmd wouldnt be a "fake" raid anymore :)12:42
treachwell, "append" doesn't imply "redundant".12:43
copworkraid doesnt imply redundant either12:43
copworki think so12:43
tilmanRedundant Array of blabla12:43
treach"Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks"....12:43
tilman(independent devices maybe, don't remember)12:43
j^2damn, and i've never played with this LVM before...lovely12:43
copworkraid 0 is not redundant12:44
treachno, and that's why it really doesn't belong there.12:44
copworkbut lvm allows you to probably use the "advantage" of glued disks without having to explicitly create arrays and move all the data12:45
copworkits inexpensive disks :)12:45
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tilmanyes, or independent :>12:46
treachI've never used it, but iirc the advantage of lvm is greater flexibility in general, even wrt partition sizes, or so.12:46
treachtilman: I was once taught "inexpensive" so I'll stick to that.12:46
tilmantreach: just checked, both works12:47
j^2awesome thanks copwork12:47
copworkwikipedia would kill you both12:48
copworkIn computing, a redundant array of independent disks, also known as redundant array of inexpensive disks.12:48
tilmanthat's what we said/agreed upon12:49
tilmanyou lose :p12:49
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S_Warlockhi have someone try out xgl ?13:44
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koefzS_Warlock, I think jaeger was trying to get it to work a while back.14:07
koefzNot sure though.14:07
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maroI think THG just beat their own stupidity record14:40
maro"Seagate's Barracuda family has traditionally been a top performer, so why not turn the 7200.10 into a 10k RPM model?"14:40
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treachtop performer in what sense..?14:41
marowell, I'm thinking of the "7200" part of seagate's new versioning scheme...14:41
treachimo, they are silent, but I don't think they are exceptionally fast. Or reliable. :-/14:42
aonwhat's thg?14:42
maromine have all been very reliable14:42
maroaon: tomshardware.com14:42
maro(Tom's Hardware Guide)14:42
aonhaven't been there since my windows days :)14:43
maroI've only had one drive dying, and that was because I dropped the case while it was running14:43
treachI had a 7200.7 dying on me while ago, and I think the other one is going as well.14:43
maromy 5 year old barracuda IV is still running fine :)14:43
aonseems like i don't have a seagate disk in this machine14:43
aoni don't even remember what hardware i have :)14:44
marotreach: yeah, the 7200.7 sucks :(14:44
maroI use one in this machine, it was its twin that died14:44
treachany recommendations in case I get to chose a replacement?14:44
maroit's amazing how much more noisy it is compared to the IV and V14:45
marotreach: if you can dig up a barracuda V anywhere I'd recommend that14:45
treachheh, I doubt I'll have that option.14:45
maro(or IV, but their capacities are smaller - sound levels are the same)14:45
marotreach: the newer 7200 series should be better though, both in terms of noise and performance14:46
marocompared to the .7 that is14:46
treachok, I'm actually not that concerned with performance.14:46
treachreliability is the key imo.14:46
marome neither14:46
maroreliability > noise > performance14:47
treachtoo bad it seems like you have to get a raid5 to get any reliability nowadays..14:47
treachwhich excludes the two others on the list. :/14:47
maroit annoys me that they cut off the protection shield in the 7200 series :/14:48
treachI still have my old Quantum 850MB around here somewhere, still in working condition afaik. :P14:49
marothe 7200.10 is at 750 GB btw :)14:49
maro3000 DKR though14:49
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marothat's a lot of porn...14:49
treachfits neither in my buget nor in my needs..14:49
maromine neither, I'm just amazed14:50
treachbah, high density disks has always been amazingly expensive.14:51
treachI still remember the comments I got on my 850.. "You'll NEVER fill that disk!"14:51
treachright. :P14:51
treachthis was in the pre-win95 days. :-)14:52
aonthere aren't as many stupid estimates anymore as there used to be :)14:56
treachyeah. In those days DOS took something like 6MB and win3.11 about 30. IIRC vista will take 7GB...14:58
treachit's just plain absurd.14:59
maroperhaps such a sucker:
aonand it's mostly the same shit :)14:59
marohow big is crux core?14:59
maro200 megs or so, right?14:59
treachmaro: hehe, well, I'm actually using a ramdrive for building stuff so..15:00
marome too :)15:00
aoni don't see the point, but perhaps my mostly '02 computer is still so insanely fast :)15:01
treachactually, I found putting /var/lock and /var/run on such as well wasn't a bad idea.15:01
maroaon: here too :)15:01
treachaon: well, io is a real break on a lot of operations, especially compilings.15:02
treachaon: I cut almost 15 min iirc from the build of X11 by going from a single ata setup to striped sata disks for the build. I imagine using ram-drives speeds it up a bit further.15:03
maromy 2 512MB DDR400 ECC blocks are living on their fourth year now15:03
treachalso it doesn't wear and tear as much on the disks.15:03
treachs break/brake15:04
aonyeah, but waiting 15min is nothing, considering that i spend hours doing nothing at all :)15:04
maroaon: how much memory do you have=15:04
maroyou could easily use a workdir in tmpfs15:05
treachsure. but as I said.. it's abit of abuse on the disk as well. Not happening with ramdisks. :P15:05
marohow much swap?15:05
marotmpfs just use the virtual memory so in the case where your ram is full it will just fall back to swap :)15:06
treachwhich probably won15:07
maroso it's a plus in the cases where it can use your ram and only "just as bad" in the worst case15:07
treach't happen for much stuff except qt... :P15:07
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marotreach: gcc is the worst one in my experience15:09
treachok, I haven't tested with that one.15:09
marowith a 1G tmpfs I have yet to find a port too big15:09
treachI think I'll be fine then.15:10
treach(I set the build dir to 768M to be a bit conservative and stay within my physical ram. but I can expand that in case I need to.)15:13
sunkHi everybody! I'm wondering if the packages for 2.1 are still maintained or even availible becaus i just installed 2.1 (had an old cd lying around) but "prt-get sysup" can't download most of the packages from, ping still works however15:13
treachyou should upgrade.15:13
treachI guess the ports are still available, but not with cvsup.15:14
sunkyes but how do i upgrade? do I need a new CD or is there any way i can upgrade with prt-get15:14
treachupgrading via ports is *possible*.15:14
treachbut *not* recommended.15:14
sunki'll just reinstall it again then15:15
treachno, you can upgrade from the cd.15:15
treachjust remember to rebuild everything that depends on openssl.15:16
sunkWhy is that?15:16
treachbecause the version on the iso isn't binary compatible with the older versions.15:16
treachso be aware in case you are sshing into some headless server or so.15:17
sunkwell im not...15:18
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Hanmaro: :-)16:04
Han``But please16:04
Hantry to stay on the fucking subject or be quiet.16:04
Hantsk tsk tsk16:04
HanI would never formulate like that.16:04
treach"Third year Computer Science undergraduate."16:05
treachawsome... why does it make me think of our "I'm not a mouse-clicker, I'm a phd student".... :>16:06
HanYeah I am quoting you on that message16:10
marowhat would you have said?16:10
treachmaro: are you asking for lessons in politeness from han?16:11
tilman"Please don't use my kernel then."16:11
treachAre you ill?16:11
marotilman: :D16:11
tilmanor "blalbla, openbsd doesn't have this problem blabla"16:11
marotreach: no, I was hoping for something even more crude :)16:12
HanIt's just his opinion. I would argue that you'd forget about the average non-educated admin.16:17
HanAnd agree that it's stupid behaviour from both the admin and tar.16:17
marowell, I think it's just stupid of tar16:21
jdolanHan, am i still on your /ignore?16:21
treachjdolan: I think it's a one-way ticket. :p16:22
jdolanhan han bo ban...16:22
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treach"One of its lines was "rm -rf $LOGDIR/". Believe me, even on this Digital Unix Alpha, it took a very long time to purge the directory when LOGDIR was void, and we had to reinstall everything from scratch !"16:29
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Hanadding a trailing slash seems dangerous.16:37
Hanrm -rf ${LOGDIR:=nonexistant}/16:38
HanOf course a logger which is able to create files is non sane16:39
treachOk, maybe you should bring cptn the bad news then. :>16:40
HanWhat are you refering to?16:40
treachthe fact that prt-get creates build logs if you tell it to.16:41
treach(I'm not really serious, but it does create logfiles and a dir for them if it doesn't exist.)16:41
Hanhmmm ok, you got a point there :-)16:43
* treach puts it on the score-board. 16:44
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mavrick61cptn': Does the work now?18:07
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mavrick61Hi all19:57
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hackedheadanyone know where i can get the linux flash player tar for ff? the macromedia site is borked, presumably as a result of adobe takeover...21:32
prologicadobe have taken over macromedia now ?21:33
thrice`just keep trying, it will work :)21:33
prologicI'll have an old source somewhere here21:33
thrice`wow :)21:34
thrice`pack rat21:34
hackedheadyou are my new favorite prologic....21:35
prologicwhy is apache trying to link against db-4.3 ?21:35
prologic2.2 contains 4.4.20 now21:35
prologicon that note, the apache port is thus broken21:35
rxi|workprologic: lol .. your up to date on industry news :P adobe bought macromedia like last year :)21:42
prologicshit :/21:43
prologicI must have missed it in my rss feeds :)21:43
prologicmy desktop is fooked :/21:44
* prologic kicks 2.221:44
rxi|workbbs .. heading home21:44
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prologicok apache port isn't broken :)22:01
prologicfalse alarm!22:01
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rxiphew .. i was so worried about that :P22:21
prologicthe rejmerges are fun though22:22
prologicso many things have changed22:22
prologicand if they're not updated properly they don't work :)22:22
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* rxi slaps emerge around a bit with a niggers cock22:42
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