IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2006-05-25

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marobored you say?
maromeh, my TODO list of useless package managing tools is getting thin00:27
marorpm, dpkg, yum, apt, slapt-get, gslapt, paco, smart, xpkg, ...00:28
maropacman would be too easy00:29
maroruby :x00:31
nipuLthe japs love their ruby00:33
nipuLyay, my workshop computer is linuxified00:36
nipuLcopying the last reminants of data from a ntfs partition and i'll be done00:36
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nipuLi hope the boss doesnt have a spaz00:37
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marohmm, gcc 4.1.100:46
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acruxtilman: have you updated x11r7 to 7.1 ?06:12
acruxgreat, i want to test it on crux ppc06:12
acruxtomorrow night i'll get a try06:12
acruxwith the 2.6.17 we want to do a special ibook G4 release of crux ppc (with x11r7)06:15
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rxiacrux: what about 2.2?06:16
acruxgiulivo and nullpointer are waiting for a stable 64bit toolchain06:24
rxiwhat about us poor 32bit hax0rs?06:25
acruxon my ibook there is a cruxppc 2.2 (G4 optimized)  full working06:25
acruxbut i've no access to CVS on sunsite06:26
acruxi must speak with nullpointer06:32
acruxthen we can do 2 pre-release of crux ppc 2.206:33
acrux(G4 ibook and standard not optimized)06:33
acruxwith xorg 6.906:33
rxii can probably test on my g3 ibook06:33
rxiits running 2.0 atm :(06:35
acruxok, in this we i'll recompile all core,opt and contrib aligned with crux 2.206:36
acruxwithout optimization06:36
acruxso we already have all packages06:36
acruxthere is a little repo for ppc (next crux ppc 2.2)06:37
acruxi use it to run octave on G406:38
rxiahh ok06:38
acruxi go away06:43
acruxrxi: see ya06:43
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artur_tesound & audiofile for editor....08:29
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aoni wonder if gedit does more than emacs as it has ~30 times the amount of deps :)09:03
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j^2hey all09:19
j^2busy channel like always :P09:23
aonhey j^209:26
j^2hey aon09:26
j^2i think i'm hungover09:26
aonyou think you are?09:27
aoni thought that's one of the things you know for sure :)09:27
j^2yeah that's the odd part, i feel like i am, am slow and not thinking straight, but i'm not 100% i'm 1/2 hungover or somethnig09:28
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* kensai wakes up10:04
* j^2 kicks a kitten10:05
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aonj^2: :/10:12
vektorij^2: :(10:12
j^2everyone should do it10:12
j^2vektori: aww kitty cat10:13
aonj^2: apparently the cat has died, judging from the text :/10:13
j^2crazy non english language10:14
vektoriI think it was because j^2 kicked it.10:14
vektoriI never get used to referring to animals with him/her.10:14
aonyeah, it's because in our crazy non-English language we shouldn't10:15
* kensai goes to check if Con Kolivas released a new patch10:15
predatorfreakHmmm, gcc
aonit's not that rare to refer to people using 'it' :)10:15
vektoriYeah. :)10:15
tilmanisn't "it" correct?10:15
j^2aon: you are telling me there are more then one non-english languge?10:15
vektoriYou usually refer to pets with him/her.10:15
predatorfreakI wonder if it would compile util-linux properly.10:15
predatorfreakBecause sysctl segfaults with
tilmanvektori: but non-pet animals (cattle o_O) are "it"?10:16
bd2unfortunally gcc-4.1.1 still not usable with that bug
vektoriI think so.10:16
aontilman: and wild animals10:16
tilmanok, makes sense10:16
vektoriI think we have plenty of native English speakers to confirm that. ;)10:16
vektoriFinnish, OTOH, doesn't even make a distinction between him and her.10:16
aonj^2: no, i don't think i said anything like that :)10:16
aoni feel rather uncomfortable refering to people with the him/her word :)10:17
predatorfreakbd2: Performance decreaase isn't a major thing.10:17
predatorfreakInternal segmentation faults, producing incorrect code, etc.10:17
predatorfreakThat's serious.10:17
aonDoesn't happen in speech. Ever :)10:17
bd2predatorfreak, at your pov it's usable. but 30% performance decrease is major thing to me at least ;-)10:18
aondropping unnecessary words and shortening the ones used is the way to go :)10:18
predatorfreakbd2: I'm more worried about sysctl segfaulting because it was built with gcc 4.1.X ;)10:19
bd2even not 30%, but "two time slower"10:19
predatorfreakbd2: As I said, bad code is more important than performance with compilers.10:20
predatorfreakGetting good code and good performance is also nice ;)10:20
bd2no, slow code == bug, for a good compiler. I'm blame gcc devels for releasing such release with that bug.10:21
predatorfreakbd2: You have to be kidding me.10:21
predatorfreakIf the compiler produced horridly wrong code.10:21
bd2at least they should tell with 80 pt. font, "DONT USE THAT RELEASE, IT'S PRODUCE DAMN SLOW BINARIES"10:22
predatorfreakYou'd rather it do that then be slower?10:22
bd2predatorfreak, I'm not talking about wrong code. It's obvious.10:22
predatorfreakI didn't disagree that producing horridly slow binaries wasn't a bug though.10:22
predatorfreakIn my mind though, pushing off a bug like that which doesn't produce inproper code for one that DOES is much more important.10:23
bd2fine. but what for the relese then?10:23
predatorfreakPeople are more worried about performance than code correctness these days, scary.10:23
predatorfreakbd2: Hopefully they'll fix it for
bd2predatorfreak, that is not true. I thing that "right code" must be produced, it's not a bug, it's OMG-BUG10:24
predatorfreakAlthough I'm seeing classic Xorg stragey here :P10:24
predatorfreakUgh I can't spell.10:24
predatorfreakAnyway, Xorg tend to push off stuff for later releases.10:24
bd2predatorfreak, yeah. 4.1.2 will fix it. but what for 4.1.1 release? most people even don't know that 4.1.1 is damn slow10:25
predatorfreakEspecially incredibly simple stuff.10:25
predatorfreakbd2: The test case I saw there was only done on a built-for-AMD64 compiler.10:25
predatorfreakand not tested with a native x86 built compiler.10:25
predatorfreakCompare both tests and prove both show very similar results and it is masssive.10:25
predatorfreakOtherwise it's more-or-less an AMD64 problem.10:26
bd2initial bugreporter don't mention AMD64, even more it's Target: i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc10:27
predatorfreakbd2: I've seen bugs reported with bad targets before.10:28
predatorfreakThat isn't uncommon.10:28
predatorfreakand the only test case I see there is from an AMD64 native compiler.10:28
predatorfreakBut whatever.10:29
predatorfreakThis is a pointless, unproductive debate.10:29
predatorfreakThat is doing nothing but going in circles.10:29
bd2bug discussion don't say "it's AMD-only", that is my point10:29
tilmanit still doesn't mean it affects every program out there10:29
* predatorfreak builds and tests gcc 4.1.110:34
* bd2 builds and test TCC :-P10:35
predatorfreakTCC doesn't even work for 90% of packages, sadly :(10:35
predatorfreakI wish it did, because I'd use it.10:36
bd2the compilation speed of gcc is even more disapointing10:36
predatorfreakbd2: That I can agree on.10:37
predatorfreakEven for incredibly simple stuff it can take 30 seconds :( (note, this one was sarcasm, but I'm serious about the fact it's slow)10:37
bd2I think it's not sarcasm for my p-75 ;-) I recalling speed of gcc-2.95.x on that machine, it was times faster10:38
predatorfreakbd2: I've humanly noticed some improvements in GCC 4.X for C++ code.10:39
predatorfreakBut C seems slower.10:39
predatorfreakIt's just..... slower on compilation overall.10:39
predatorfreakand the end result isn't noticably faster or smaller.10:39
predatorfreak(In fact, with gcc 4.0, the RESULT IS GENERALLY LARGER)10:39
predatorfreakThat is one reason I want to switch to 4.1.X10:39
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bd2further more, gcc devels seems not bother with compilation speed10:40
predatorfreakPrevious tests have showed me that it's on-par with 3.4.X in terms of binary size.10:40
predatorfreakbd2: Yup.10:40
predatorfreakIt only seems to get slower...... and slower.10:40
bd2Join my gcc-haters-club ;-)10:40
aonstart using tcc? :-)10:41
predatorfreakaon: When it can't compile stuff like gaim, we're sorely fucked ;)10:41
aonwell, you can stop using gaim :)10:42
bd2tcc is somewhat a joke from my side. It's not so powerful as gcc. But I wish gcc devels take more attention on compilation speed and runtime speed.10:42
predatorfreakbd2: Binary size and compilation speed matter more too me.10:42
bd2I recently stop reading gcc-devel, because every time I read it, I too much disappointing.10:42
predatorfreakSmall binaries that are reasonably fast and fast compilation == Happy me.10:43
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predatorfreakcptn: Hi.10:44
predatorfreakcptn: Me and bd2 are ranting about gcc :P10:44
cptnoh :-)10:44
cptnlet me check the logs then10:44
predatorfreakcptn: For the most part we're agreeing that.10:45
predatorfreak1. GCC is slow at compilation.10:45
predatorfreak2. They seem to ignore compilation speed and just keep making it slower.10:45
predatorfreak3. Something?10:45
cptnmmmh, that's an interesting report10:46
cptn(bug report)10:46
cptnbd2: did you experience this too, or did you just see the report?10:49
cptnI've been using gcc 4.1.1 prereleases for a while, and didn't notice any slowdown10:49
bd2cptn, no I've not tried it.10:49
bd2predatorfreak will10:49
predatorfreakcptn: Does sysctl segfault for you? :P10:49
bd2but I don't expect nothing good from gcc10:49
predatorfreakI'm building 4.1.1 right now.10:50
predatorfreakand 4.1.0 always produced a constantly-segfaulting-sysctl.10:50
cptnmmmh, it doesn't segfault, no10:51
predatorfreakGood good.10:52
cptnnot sure if I rebuilt procps recently, though10:52
cptni.e. after the 2.2 upgrade10:52
predatorfreakcptn: Well, mind checking just to be sure for me? :\10:53
predatorfreakLast time I didn't notice it until I rebooted and I was like "SHIT. sysctl and top are dead."10:53
cptnmmmh, no, didn't update it after installing 2.210:54
cptnso by 4.1.0 compiled version doesn't segault10:55
cptnGCC: (GNU) 4.0.3 (CRUX)10:55
predatorfreakcptn: pkgexport; prt-get update -fr util-linux; top :P10:55
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cptnpredatorfreak: ah, did it start segfaulting with 4.1.0?10:57
predatorfreakcptn: Yeah.10:57
predatorfreakWhen I built it with 4.1.0 it just went dead.10:58
cptnbut why would you rebuild util-linux?10:58
cptntop is in procps10:58
predatorfreakand segfault BOOOM.10:58
cptnanyway, I'll try10:58
predatorfreaksysctl is in util-linux, right? o.O10:58
predatorfreakNope..... it's in procps.10:58
cptnnot here10:58
predatorfreakBrain failure then.10:59
predatorfreakcptn: procps was the problem package.10:59
cptnsysctl 4.1.1 (CRUX) still works10:59
predatorfreakand my standard practice with gcc updates is to rebuild my system.10:59
predatorfreakI'm obsessive.10:59
predatorfreakI like everything to be built with the current compiler.10:59
cptnmmmh, wait11:00
will[werk]After running crontab -e, and save it, when you return to the bash prompt, doesn't it usually save "cron jobs updated" or something like that?11:00
jorgpis there a way to rebuild complete system11:00
cptnmaybe ccache was playing tricks on my11:00
cptnno, it didn't11:00
predatorfreakjorgp: prt-get update -fr `prt-get listinst`, but that's kinda dirty :P11:00
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predatorfreakjorgp: The second I'm not lazy I'm going to write a proper recursive rebuild script.11:00
cptnboth top and sysctl work here11:01
predatorfreakThat will store an array of things it's already built and search it, doing prt-get quickdep runs for each package on the rebuild list.11:01
predatorfreakcptn: Good to hear.11:01
predatorfreakI'll report in on my success.11:01
predatorfreakcptn: Should 4.1.1 be built twice or just once coming from 4.0.3, just so I know.11:02
jorgpso there is nothing like gentoo with emerge world11:02
predatorfreakjorgp: Nope.11:02
cptndoes emerge world _re_build all packages?11:02
cptnI though it would just update outdated ones11:02
predatorfreakcptn: Insanely, yes.11:02
kensaiemerge world just upgrades11:02
predatorfreakkensai: Not if I remember right.11:03
kensaiemrge -e world11:03
predatorfreakkensai: Close enough then :P11:03
predatorfreakOne flag difference.11:03
cptnjorgp: 'prt-get sysup' is therefore equivalent to 'emerge world'11:04
cptnif that was your question11:04
predatorfreakcptn: He was asking about an entire system rebuild.11:04
cptn[18:02] <jorgp> so there is nothing like gentoo with emerge world11:04
kensaiprt-get should include a rebuild script11:04
predatorfreakcptn: <jorgp> is there a way to rebuild complete system11:04
cptnthat was before11:05
cptnbut hey11:05
predatorfreakcptn: I was answering that question :P11:05
cptnI was answering the other11:05
predatorfreakcptn: Then ignore all of the above :P11:06
* predatorfreak deletes from mental memory.11:06
cptn~/irclogs never forgets :-)11:07
predatorfreakcptn: You must monitor us like Stalin :P11:08
jjpkUncle Joe's watching.11:08
predatorfreakAH! He spoke against me, Secret Police, you know what to do."11:08
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predatorfreakcptn: DAMN IT.11:25
predatorfreakcptn: sysctl STILL segfaults.11:25
predatorfreakas does top or any other program in procps.11:26
jorgpcptn: thanks11:26
predatorfreakWell I suppose just to be smart I should rebuild binutils/glibc XD11:29
jorgpI think that was the general rule, always rebuild toolchain twice, then rebuild world11:30
predatorfreakjorgp: We'll see if it helps.11:31
predatorfreakIf it doesn't, ARGSGSHDFH kill mode :)11:31
cptnjorgp: the general rule in crux is that you don't have to bootstrap11:31
rehabdolloh, the enron boys found guilty11:31
cptnjust use the ISOs to install11:31
cptnand upgrade11:32
cptntoolchain upgrades requiring a full rebuild usually result in a new ISO11:32
jorgpI meant if you did it on your own11:32
predatorfreakcptn: If I can't get this to work I'm just going to ask for your gcc 4.1.1 package, glibc package and such :P11:34
predatorfreakThen I'll just install those and rebuilt against them.11:34
jorgpwhat version of glibc? 2.4?11:34
predatorfreakjorgp: Ja.11:34
koefzBinary packages. *hint* *hint*11:35
predatorfreakcptn: I could revert, but I'm lazy :P11:35
predatorfreakand I doubt going back to 2.3.X would help much.11:35
cptnkoefz: how would that help?11:36
jorgpheh, make sure you have a backup plan or binary package, I went back from glibc 2.4 to 2.3.6 (stable) on gentoo and end up having to reinstall system11:36
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koefzcptn, it would make upgrades quicker and somewhat easier since you wouldn't have to rebuild everything.11:38
cptnkoefz: oh yeah, sure11:39
koefzBut then again I'm not for binary packages all the way, so you would still have to rebuild all the stuff from opt and contrib.11:39
cptnkoefz: but the problem here is entirely different, right?11:39
cptninofficial gcc, inoffical glibc11:39
koefzOk. I didn't read that far back.11:40
cptnif people don't use our ports, they might not need our packages either11:40
predatorfreakcptn: I think you mean unofficial.11:41
cptnyeah, probably11:41
predatorfreakinofficial isn't a word o.O11:41
koefzcptn, hmm. How do you mean? In the sense that he's trying to build versions that aren't in the tree yet?11:41
cptnkoefz: yeah11:42
koefzIf you're hacking on the system and trying out new stuff you obviously have no choice.11:42
cptnI mean, there's nothing wrong with that11:42
cptnjust binary packages wouldn't help11:42
predatorfreakcptn: Well, for me.11:42
predatorfreakTo get gcc 4.1.1 working without buttfucking is point enough.11:42
predatorfreakThen I can rebuild gcc 4.1.1 with it's self.11:43
predatorfreakEven though bootstrap is SUPPOSED to handle that for me.11:43
koefzNo, of course not. I'll apologize for sticking my nose in without reading the discussion.11:43
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kensaione thing to understand when devs are talking just listen quietly and let them be11:49
prologicindeed :)11:52
prologicso shoosh you :)11:52
kensai99% of the time they are taliking is because something is not working right :)11:53
prologicyeh well it's a rarety :)11:54
* prologic breaks something on his desktop just so the devs have something to discuss :)11:54
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kensaibut I understand the severity of talking about gcc 4.1.1 and glibc 2.411:55
kensaithey both are a little problematic11:55
prologicguess so11:55
prologicwonder if you could build up a linux box with tcc :)11:55
prologictiny c compiler11:56
prologicstrily ansi c11:56
prologichmm we have no port for it either11:56
prologicoh well11:56
kensaihmm I never heard about it11:56
prologicit's a nice fast compiler, very simple11:57
kensaigcc should focus on being faster11:57
predatorfreakprologic: I couldn't get it to pass some basic app tests.11:57
vektorigcc should focus on being correct...11:57
predatorfreak./configure scritps drive it mad.11:57
prologicyou've tried it ?11:57
vektoriprologic: I heard tcc's source code is pretty nightmarish.11:57
predatorfreakprologic: Yeah, in the past.11:57
prologicahh k11:58
prologicconfigure scripts probably don't stick to ANSI C11:58
prologicso tcc is probably only usefull for small C stuff11:58
kensaiI will be writing a review of crux, but I don't know if I shall do it of the current crux or an upcoming crux12:00
predatorfreakRebuilt toolchain still means death.12:00
predatorfreakcptn: Mind providing me with your glibc and gcc ports and a package for each/ :\12:00
predatorfreak-/ +?12:01
cptnpredatorfreak: the glibc package is on the 2.2 iso12:01
cptnthe gcc port is in my httpup repo12:01
cptnbut I can upload gcc 4.1.1 somewher12:01
predatorfreakcptn: Danka.12:01
predatorfreakvektori: German.12:02
vektoriOh. I was under the impression that it's "danke"...12:03
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predatorfreakerr oops.12:03
predatorfreakvektori: -a +e :)12:03
prologickensai, don't forget to include how great a desktop os and server it makes :) (I use it for both)12:04
cptnprologic: are you actively working on mythtv?12:04
prologicwhy ?12:04
cptnI have a couple of notes, but I'll send you a mail then12:04
prologicoh shit12:04
predatorfreakalso cptn.12:04
prologicslight power distruption12:04
prologic*phew* ups kicked in12:05
predatorfreakcptn: sed -i "s/$version/& (CRUX)/" $name-$version/$name/version.c12:05
predatorfreakcptn: Replaces the need for the GCC version patch :P12:05
kensaiprologic, well I shall focus on the desktop side though12:05
prologiccptn, ok thanks12:05
predatorfreakStoolen from Han :P12:05
prologickensai, great great :)12:05
kensaiI'll try the crux review to make ti to a big newsite, I have a review in www.newsforge.com12:05
kensaiand thats a top quality site12:06
vektoriThat'll mean more newbies, right?12:06
cptnvektori: yeah :-/12:06
kensaiunfortunately, myabe12:06
prologicnothing wrong with newbies12:06
prologicas long as they can read :)12:06
cptnmany great ideas on how to "improve" crux12:06
prologicCRUX has 0 problems remember :)12:06
vektoriprologic: Newbies that can read? That's an oxymoron. :P12:06
predatorfreakcptn: With fancy new ultra-bling.12:07
prologiccptn, I'd say the best thing we can do is have high quality documentation12:07
kensaisome devs come to projects like this some times12:07
vektoriYeah, they are the worst.12:08
kensaiwe can convience devs from gentoo since gentopo is having a desertion from some of it's devs12:08
vektoriWe need sticks and stones to drive them away.12:08
prologicyeah I'd rather not have gentoo influence :)12:08
predatorfreakkensai: You mean like Ciaran McCreesh?12:08
kensaithough I'm preatty happy with this small community of devs12:08
prologicthem and their bloody emerge12:08
predatorfreakHe abandoned them.12:08
predatorfreakHe was probably the sanest developer Gentoo had.12:09
kensairphillips is one strong gentoo dev and he made clear in a mailing list that gentoo is bronken12:09
prologichow come ?12:09
predatorfreakkensai: Broken? No, it functions.12:09
predatorfreakOver-complex crap? Yes.12:09
kensaihe said in the gentoo mailing list that the gentoo way of doing things is broken now12:10
prologicprolly didn't stick to strict goals12:10
predatorfreakcptn: Thanks.12:11
kensai"I believe the way Gentoo is doing things is broken. The entire project has reached a level of being too political and trying to solve certain problems in the wrong way."12:11
kensaiby Ryan Phillips12:11
predatorfreakkensai: AHHH POLOTICS IN LINUX.12:11
predatorfreakCrap I can't spell while drinking tea.12:11
predatorfreakkensai: Politics don't belong in Linux.12:13
kensaiPhillips also argues in favour of introducing a voting mechanism to resolve some of the above issues.12:13
predatorfreakThey belong in the FSF.12:13
predatorfreakWhere people like Richard Stallman CARE about politics.12:13
kensaistill Phillips would join SOurce Mage Linux instead12:14
kensaiI have seen him there12:14
predatorfreakSOURCE MAGE!!!!!12:15
kensaialso anothe gentoo dev I know is in Source Mage Linux12:15
predatorfreakThe package manager is ANNOYING beyound belief.12:15
predatorfreakI HATE getting asked 20000 questions just to install fucking Xorg.12:15
kensaitell it to me I was using Source Mage before CRUX12:15
predatorfreak"Do you want to enable cock support in Xorg?"12:15
kensaido you want to install Xorg to use it?12:15
kensaido you want Xorg to display porn?12:16
predatorfreak"Do you want to enable zlib support in Xorg?"12:16
predatorfreakYES I BLOODY WANT ZLIB.12:16
* predatorfreak turns into a British person.12:16
prologicthis is Source Mage Linux ?12:16
predatorfreakprologic: No, this is CRUX, where we say "Change it yourself."12:17
prologicI meant the package manager that asks questions12:17
kensaiyeah po12:17
kensaiyeah prologic*12:17
kensaialso Lunar linux ask questions12:18
kensaithey are derived from sorcerer12:18
prologicheard of those two12:18
predatorfreakI like non-interactive package managers :(12:18
prologicdidn't think much of them12:18
predatorfreak-:( +:)12:18
kensaisince the Socerer founder got pissed because Lunar forked them he closed Sorcered and opened it on a no fork licence12:18
predatorfreakcptn: Your gcc build works PERFECTLY.12:19
prologicthat's because cptn is a genius :)12:19
cptnpredatorfreak: mmmh, interesting12:19
cptnwell, I tweaked the machine code here and there12:19
cptnbut otherwise...12:19
predatorfreakcptn: Might just be my CFLAGS.12:20
predatorfreakexport CFLAGS="-Os -march=k8 -funit-at-a-time -fno-ident -pipe"12:20
predatorfreakBut that's nothing "drastic".12:20
kensai"CFLAGS="-O99 march=i886 -freaking-fast-go -fno-care-about-breaks -pipeitallthewayup"12:22
kensaithis ones better12:22
predatorfreakkensai: Ricer :P12:22
predatorfreakkensai: Mine aren't bad, CPU optimization, -Os, -funit-at-a-time (disabled in -Os for some reason...), -fno-ident (kills ident strings, saving some space :P), -pipe.12:22
predatorfreakpipe just improves the horrid compilation speed.12:23
kensaipredatorfreak, thats very safe12:23
jaeger-Omg-optimized is still my favorite12:23
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cptnpredatorfreak: I was using slighly more previously, and saw strange effect there as well12:24
cptn="-O3 -march=k8 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -mfpmath=sse -fpeel-loops -ftracer -funswitch-loops -funit-at-a-time"12:24
cptnthat was AMD's recommendation from athlon64 on 32-bit systmes12:24
predatorfreakcptn: I'm hoping your not serious.12:25
predatorfreakI'm SERIOUSLY hoping your not serious.12:25
predatorfreakAMD are officially a ton of ricers.12:27
kensaihey dopn't talk against amd12:28
predatorfreakkensai: Look at the CFLAGS.12:28
jaegeryeah, they will come and unroll your loops12:28
kensaiCOngratulations you have the latest version of java-1.5.0712:29
kensaijava opened a bit more their license12:30
kensaistill Red Hat says is not open enough12:30
kensaiyou want to read the funniest attack of amd to intel?12:31
kensaithis is awesome, I haven't laugh harder12:32
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kensai2. Dell told them they weren't allowed to participate12:35
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predatorfreakcptn: Quick question, what are your current CFLAGS?12:42
cptn-O2 -march=i686 -pipe12:42
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predatorfreakcptn: That's ultra-minimalist.12:43
jdolananyone ever ponder how truly stupid use of the term "cookie" for http state variables is?12:44
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prologicjdolan, I have to agree12:46
predatorfreakjdolan: No more stupid than all the "foobar" coding examples :)12:50
jdolanhehe, true.12:51
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kensaihey, in what other than doing ports you guys need help so I can contribute?13:06
ningobeer support13:06
kensaino docs neded no translation to spanish needed?13:07
predatorfreakcptn: All this talk about contribution reminds me.13:07
predatorfreakI did a really rough port verifer.13:07
predatorfreakIt's still a WIP, but I got basic sanity checking done.13:08
predatorfreakand other such non-sense.13:08
predatorfreakEven the dangerous calls stuff.13:08
ningoI wouldn't call sanity checking nonsense13:08
predatorfreakAlthough it produces a lot of false positives with dangerous calls.13:08
kensaihmm mantain some ports13:08
kensaiI can do that13:09
predatorfreakningo: I would! :P13:09
mike_kpredatorfreak: sanity is good, but, man, what is with IMAP support in opt/sylpheed-claws? It seems to be disabled even with all deps installed. ldd shows libetpan...13:10
mike_ksorry, contrib/*-claws13:10
predatorfreakmike_k: I switched to using sylpheed since sylpheed-claws is crazy with me.13:10
predatorfreakIt dies randomly when I try to sign messages with GPG :(13:10
predatorfreakI've just been updating the port :\13:11
mike_kok, I'll investigate the IMAP and maybe someday pgp stuff. thanks.13:11
predatorfreakNo problem.13:11
predatorfreakYou could pick up maintainership if you pleased, since I have things I'd like to maintain in it's place :P13:12
predatorfreak(Namely quake3-icculus and crip)13:12
mike_kpredatorfreak: so, it would be double reverse change =)13:13
predatorfreakmike_k: I guess.13:13
predatorfreakBut crip is fairly painless too maintain :P13:13
mike_kok, I'll grab yours and '.sync'?13:14
predatorfreakmike_k: Okay, I'll remove the .sync from my port dir.13:14
predatorfreakand sync my repo.13:14
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predatorfreakmike_k: There, .sync gone :P13:15
predatorfreakcptn: DAMN IT, if I build gcc 4.1.1 myself, it causes procps to segfault.13:16
mike_kpredatorfreak: ok13:18
rehabdollwere dhcp(d) included, perhaps in contrib, during the life of 2.1?13:21
rehabdolljust noticed a outdated dhcp-package on my system and no port for it13:22
cptnit used to be in clc's contrib at some point in time13:22
rehabdollah, ok13:22
cptnbut danm (its maintainer) left CLC13:22
predatorfreakcptn: Let's hope I can work around this :(13:23
cptnpredatorfreak: it's strange indeed13:24
cptnhave you strace'd it already?13:24
predatorfreakcptn: Will do right now.13:24
predatorfreakIt hits to munmap and dies.13:25
mike_kpredatorfreak: and do not forget to free libetpan from '.sync'13:39
predatorfreakmike_k: Ahh, that too.13:40
predatorfreakcptn: Got top working.13:54
cptnoh, what did you do?13:54
predatorfreakI hacked around my Pkgfile.13:54
predatorfreakApparently gcc doesn't like -Os.13:54
predatorfreakSo, I just went the safe route.13:54
predatorfreakReplace C/CXXFLAGS13:54
predatorfreakWorks beautifully now.13:55
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cptngood to know13:55
jorgppredatorfreak: so you have gcc 4.1.1 working now?13:56
predatorfreakjorgp: Yup.13:57
jorgppredatorfreak: do you have kdelibs installed?13:57
predatorfreakcptn: oh and for safety purposes I unset LDFLAGS.13:57
predatorfreakjorgp: Yes.13:57
jorgppredatorfreak: can you try to compile klibido 0.2.5 and see if it compiles for you?13:58
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predatorfreakjorgp: Just grab the package cptn linked earlier and try :\13:59
* predatorfreak has to rebuild his system now......... obsessive compulsive.13:59
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jorgppredatorfreak: you mean the httpup repo14:02
predatorfreakjorgp: No, package.14:03
predatorfreakHe linked a prebuilt gcc 4.1.1 package.14:03
jorgpI found that debian sid has a gcc 4.1 patch14:16
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j^2deus_ex: do you work for the government of yugoslavia?14:38
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deus_exbtw, there is no more yugoslavia, as of May 21st.14:39
j^2oh, because your @vr-048.ptt.yu it's a top level domain, and according to wikipedia only legal entites only14:40
j^2...i didnt know14:40
j^2 ohh14:40
vektori"On May 21, 2006, 86 percent of eligible Montenegran voters turned out for a special referrundum on the independence of the Montenagran republic from federal union with Serbia. They voted 55.4% for independence, recognized as above the 55% threshold set by the European Union for formal recognition of the independence of Montenegro."14:41
vektoriThat's nice:
vektoriI guess Who Wants to Be a Millionaire isn't very popular there.14:42
deus_exj^2:It took them 3 days to count ~400.000 votes.14:42
predatorfreakdeus_ex: o.O14:42
deus_exvektori:I use to be billioner in 1993 ;)14:42
j^2oh jesus...thats hyper^100 inflation14:43
deus_ex100 Mil. dinars for bread,500 M for 1l of milk.14:43
j^2...that's so odd14:44
deus_exI still have nightmares when I recall that times.14:44
predatorfreakand this is why I'm moving my ass to England :\14:44
deus_exYou could buy *anything* for 100 DEM.14:44
predatorfreakWorst nightmares I'll have will be of crazy British people.14:45
deus_expredatorfreak: :)14:45
predatorfreakdeus_ex: People included? :)14:45
* predatorfreak wouldn't mind buying himself a few survents.14:45
deus_expredatorfreak:People were cheaper.Property, as in apartments, buildings...14:46
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Damn.14:46
predatorfreakI need a few survents, to clean my house and such.14:46
predatorfreakSo I can be a proper lazy bastard :D14:47
predatorfreak(Note: sarcasm)14:47
deus_expredatorfreak:You could buy 2 gorgeus russian babes for around 200$ then.14:47
jorgpso if there is no more yugoslavia, whats is called now?14:47
deus_ex(we imported them)14:48
predatorfreakdeus_ex: :O14:48
predatorfreakdeus_ex: GIMMIE.14:48
deus_exjorgp:It does not exist anymore, except in memories.14:49
jorgphow sad14:49
deus_expredatorfreak:You are few years late, that was possible till 2002.Sorry :)14:50
predatorfreakdeus_ex: DAMN IT :(14:50
* predatorfreak invents time machine.14:51
* predatorfreak travels back in time.14:51
* predatorfreak buys the store.14:51
deus_exjorgp:Sad is the way that country vanished:wars,NATO bombing,hunger...14:51
jorgpso who owns the land where the country was14:52
predatorfreakjorgp: Montenegran, I'd think.14:52
predatorfreakAs Montenegran is now an independent state.14:52
jjpkIt's called Serbia & Montenegro right now, though Montenegro seems it will declare independence since they just passed a referendum.14:53
deus_expredatorfreak:Main 'supply' point for that kind of goods is/was 1km from me.14:53
deus_exjorgp:Montenegro as one, Serbia as other country.14:54
predatorfreak"On May 21, 2006, Montenegro held a referendum to determine whether or not to terminate the union with Serbia. The next day, state-certified results showed 55.5% of voters favoring independence,"14:54
predatorfreakthe . value doesn't match.14:54
predatorfreakIt says .4 on one page and .5 on the other.14:54
deus_expredatorfreak: 155.000 people voted for the math.14:54
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I know, I'm just saying the . value doesn't match ;)14:55
deus_expredatorfreak:Discussion on precisely that is main event here these days :)14:56
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Damn, you must have a boring country.14:56
deus_exOnes who lost demand a recount.14:56
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deus_expredatorfreak:I wish.14:56
predatorfreakdeus_ex: At least look at it this way: You don't have George W. Bush in office.14:57
hik0can anyone assist with getting the ipw2200 driver working?14:57
predatorfreakI've losted all faith in the American people after ellecting him a SECOND time.14:57
hik0i dont know why there is no ethX device assigned to the card14:57
predatorfreakdeus_ex: If he comes to your country, deport him :P14:57
predatorfreakI'd do that if it was MY country.14:57
hik0the required kernel modules are configured and loaded, along with the binary firmware files for the ipw driver in /lib/firmware14:57
hik0CRUX-2.2 32bit14:58
predatorfreakhik0: Normally wireless devices are wlan0 and such.14:58
predatorfreakAre you sure wlan0 doesn't exist?14:58
hik0wlan0 does not exist...14:58
predatorfreakOkay, then I'm pooped.14:58
predatorfreakAnyone who experience want to tackle this one? :)14:58
deus_expredatorfreak:Politicians here would kiss his ass until it turns blue.14:58
jaegeripw2200 creates ethX14:58
jjpkIn my experience it has been eth1.14:58
hik0i'm thinking the firmware filesa arent getting loaded14:58
hik0i've edited the udev rules file too14:59
predatorfreakdeus_ex: ....... RUN TO A SANE COUNTRY, NOW.14:59
jorgpjaeger: hi14:59
jaegerdo you have the correct version of the firmware extracted to /lib/firmware?14:59
jaegerjorgp: yo14:59
jaegershouldn't be any need to edit udev stuff for ipw220014:59
predatorfreakjaeger: Hi and I was going based on what-tiny-ass-bit-of-knowledge I have with wireless chipsets.14:59
deus_expredatorfreak:I tried to get a visa few years back to visit my sister in Italy.No dice.14:59
hik0jaeger: yes...14:59
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Owch.15:00
deus_exWe are on the black list.15:00
hik0jaeger: firmware version driver versions v1.0.7 and newer, (includes stable v1.1.0): firmware v2.415:00
deus_exWith the tendency to stay on it for a *long* time.15:00
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Did you kill someone?15:00
jaegerhik0: are you using the in-kernel ipw2200 or the sourceforge packages?15:01
hik0i've also installed wifi-radar -- and it tries to initialize eth2 and fails15:01
deus_expredatorfreak:Not that I know of.But it's possible ;)15:01
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Split personality! :D15:01
hik0jaeger: the in-kernel ipw220015:01
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jaegerwhat does 'dmesg' say about it?15:02
deus_exI was on Kosovo during my military service, in 1994.15:02
hik0eth0 is assigned to my onboard lan15:02
hik0sit0 is also there15:02
hik0one sec15:02
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I'd join a military organisation, but right now, the only ones I could join and not get sent off to war wouldn't provide the combat hardening I want :(15:02
predatorfreakdeus_ex: So, England HO!15:02
deus_ex7 months of patrol, under tent.It as fun.15:03
predatorfreakThen I'll join the British Army or something.15:03
hik0jaeger: all i see regarding ipw2200 is that the driver loaded...15:03
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Tents you say? :P15:03
deus_expredatorfreak:Where are you from?15:03
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I want your tent!15:03
hik0jaeger: no errors...15:03
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Where else? U.S. right now.15:03
jaegerhik0: did you build it as a module or builtin?15:03
hik0jaeger: module15:04
predatorfreakLike I said, I lost all faith in my own people after they brought back Mr. Bush.15:04
jaegerdoes lsmod show it loaded?15:04
deus_expredatorfreak:I would be glad to share a tent with you :)15:04
jaegerhrmm... which files do you have in /lib/firmware?15:04
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I really hoped they where SMARTER than that :(15:04
hik0jaeger: ipw2200 crc32c libcrc32c and arc4 are also loaded15:04
hik0along with ieee80211 and iee80211_crypt15:04
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Well then, shall we go to Russia and feast then tent at the Kremlin? :P15:05
cptnhik0: and ifconfig -a doesn't show it?15:05
hik0ifconfig -a shows eth0 (8139too) lo and sit015:05
deus_expredatorfreak:We could, I have a friend there.15:05
predatorfreakdeus_ex: See you there!15:05
hik0i've alised the ipw2200 as eth1 in modprobe.conf -- if thats necessary...15:05
jaegerhik0: what does lspci show for it?15:05
predatorfreakI'll bring a guy who happened to be born in the Ukraine.15:06
predatorfreakIf we get and lip, I'll just say that he was born with a Hammer and a Sickle :P15:06
deus_expredatorfreak:Bad idea.They hate each other.15:06
bd2we don't hate each other15:06
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Communists love each oher though :P15:06
hik0lspci says its a BROADCOM15:06
bd2politics hate each other, we are normal people15:07
jaegerhik0: this could be the problem :)15:07
predatorfreak-oher +other15:07
hik0jaeger: rofl --haha15:07
hik0thats what i get for reading on google15:07
hik0its an hp dv1610 us laptop15:07
jaegeris it a dell laptop or something?15:07
hik0dv1000 base...15:07
jaegerdell uses like 7 different wireless cards now, I don't know about hp15:07
hik0and someone else said it was an intel driver15:07
hik0BCM4318 --- is that supported in kernel?15:08
bd2but I hate gcc developers ;-)15:08
predatorfreakbd2: :D15:08
deus_exbd2: :)15:08
predatorfreakbd2: Shall we go on a killing rampage?15:08
bd2predatorfreak, with no doubt ;-)15:08
jaegerhik0: ndiswrapper15:09
predatorfreakbd2: I'll bring my assorted knife collection! :D15:09
deus_expredatorfreak:If you need cheap nuke, we cold think of something.15:09
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Nah, too "noisey".15:09
hik0cant believe i've been chasing this damn ipw2200 for hours15:09
deus_exI do know some people.15:09
predatorfreakI'm thinking hide in the closet until it's dark ;)15:10
jaegerhik0: such is life, hehe15:10
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Close enough :P15:10
bd2we can bounty some hitman, as Linus recommended ;-)15:10
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hik0prt-get depinst ndiswrapper :)15:10
predatorfreakbd2: Nah, I prefer too do my own dirty work.15:11
bd2"just hire a hit-man to whack the stupid git" (c) Linus15:11
predatorfreakbd2: The main thing is to just never leave evidence.15:11
jaegerhik0: I have no experience with that so good luck if you try it :)15:11
deus_exbd2: :)15:11
bd2predatorfreak, haha. okey. We'll hire you ;-)15:12
predatorfreakbd2: :D15:12
bd2but wait. firstly, we must just scare them, give them a chance to speedup gcc15:12
deus_expredatorfreak:Will you accept dinars as a fee?15:12
* predatorfreak gives bd2 a free knife :P15:12
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Nah, try lower, like 1$ :P15:13
hik0it says the driver's included in the kernel since 2.6.17-rc215:13
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hik0i'm on
* bd2 copy&pasting this conversation to gcc-devel ;-)15:13
deus_expredatorfreak:That's about the same value :)15:13
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Oh, in that case, sure!15:13
predatorfreakbd2: Scaring the GCC developers eh?15:14
bd2predatorfreak, yea15:14
deus_exWe have a deal.Let my people talk to your people.15:14
predatorfreakdeus_ex: What people? I don't operate a gang.15:14
predatorfreakPeople fudge up.15:14
predatorfreakSo entire gangs are a slow demise.15:14
jaegerhik0: right, so you'll need to download it from the site15:14
bd2they should know for what reason we want to kill'em15:15
predatorfreakdeus_ex: If you do it all yourself you can verify everything went perfectly.15:15
deus_expredatorfreak:A lone wolf you are.15:15
hik0jaeger: git:// ???15:15
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Of course.15:15
jaegerhik0: well, like I said, haven't used it. I don't have a bcm wireless card... not sure what the best way is to get it15:17
predatorfreakbd2: Simple, improve the compilation speed of gcc! :D15:17
hik0jaeger: cool, thanks for the help15:17
jaegerI guess that git tree is what you want, sounds reasonable15:17
jaegeror you could use kernel 2.6.17-rc2 or higher15:18
predatorfreakoh and improve it's correctness and reduce binary size.15:18
bd2predatorfreak, yes. but they don't know it yet.15:18
predatorfreakbd2: :}15:18
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predatorfreak"The Icelandic Phallological Museum is devoted entirely to collecting penis specimens from all the land and sea mammals living in Iceland."15:30
predatorfreakWHAT. THE. HELL.15:30
vektoriSounds like science gone horribly wrong.15:31
predatorfreakvektori: Yes, yes it does.15:31
deus_ex'penis specimens'?Ewww15:33
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Look, I don't try to understand Icelandic people.15:33
predatorfreakand I sure as HELL don't want to know why they collect penises.15:34
deus_exPeople are weird.15:34
deus_exScientists even more so.15:34
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Yes.15:35
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Also, they are offering a GIFT TOKEN for a human penis.15:36
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deus_exFew years back,man volunteered to be eaten by cannibal.Your point?15:37
predatorfreakdeus_ex: .......... My new point.15:38
deus_exOh.'sane man'.Gotcha'15:38
predatorfreakdeus_ex: People are fucking morons.15:38
predatorfreakI don't think cannibalism for survival is wrong, so long as you don't kill to achieve it.15:38
predatorfreakBut VOLUNTEERING?15:38
deus_expredatorfreak:All are,until proven otherwise.15:38
deus_expredatorfreak:You must've heard of it, in Germany.15:39
predatorfreakThis is Imperialist America.15:39
predatorfreakThe media here is egotistical.15:39
predatorfreakaka fanatical.15:39
deus_exCannibal puts an ad that he would like to eat a human.Guy answers.Guy gets eaten15:40
jjpkpredatorfreak: humanity has always had an affinity to the mighty phallus, nothing new there.15:40
predatorfreakdeus_ex: ....... Only in Germany.15:40
deus_exand filmed.Cannibal gets book rights.15:41
predatorfreakOnly in Germany.15:41
jjpkCannibalism could have happened anywhere.15:41
predatorfreakBut volunteering.15:41
predatorfreakand freaking books?15:41
predatorfreakHere you eat someone.15:42
predatorfreakWeather they said you could or not, you get put in jail.15:42
predatorfreakThen again.15:42
predatorfreakGermany has always been a little different.15:42
deus_expredatorfreak:What do you mean?15:43
deus_exLike jjpk said, it could happen anywhere.15:44
predatorfreakdeus_ex: People eating people yes.15:44
predatorfreakBut if you put out books on how you ate someone.15:44
predatorfreakand filmed it.15:44
predatorfreakand it was a public media thing.15:44
predatorfreakYou'd go to jail in 99% of countries.15:45
deus_exHe did go to jail, but he is a star.15:45
deus_exFor a very sick value of star.15:45
predatorfreakdeus_ex: In that case ignore above.15:46
predatorfreakGermany isn't crazy :P15:46
deus_exThey were shocked.15:46
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XATRIX!seen mike_k15:47
-MelOne- XATRIX, I think I don't know mike_k yet.15:47
deus_exHe said it tasted like chicken, only drier.15:47
XATRIX!seen mike15:47
-MelOne- XATRIX, I don't know mike, ask predatorfreak, maybe he knows something.15:47
predatorfreakWhy would I know? :P15:48
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Interesting.15:48
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predatorfreakMelOne: If your implying I "removed" mike from the picture, I'll "remove" you too ;)15:49
* predatorfreak abuses bot.15:49
deus_expredatorfreak:Be gentle.:)15:50
predatorfreakdeus_ex: :)15:51
deus_ex'Gentle abuse'.Hmm...15:51
predatorfreakDon't worry, I will be.15:51
deus_exYou've heard of Darwin awards?15:51
deus_exIf you had any doubt taht people are idiots, read soem of it.15:52
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I never doubted it in the least.15:52
deus_exMy favorite is preacher who went to Papua New Guinea, to convert a tribe15:54
deus_exto 'one true religion'.He took his wife and two teenage daughters.A family man.15:55
predatorfreakAs far as I know, most tribes in Papua New Guinea still believe in teenage boys sucking their 'elders' cock.15:55
deus_exWhat he didn't know is that tribe are certified canibals, one of the last15:55
predatorfreakWhich scares me.15:55
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Then again, I've learned to never trust tribes.15:56
predatorfreakWe should really stop flooding #crux with offtopic stuff.15:56
deus_exon the planet.16:00
deus_exOddly enough, they never returned from the trip.16:00
deus_ex'Ohhh, white meat.'16:00
deus_exThe list goes on and on.16:00
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Well.16:01
predatorfreakShall I send the tribe some chicken? :)16:01
deus_exto #crux-ot,then?16:01
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deus_exWe could send gcc devs on a field trip there :)16:02
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deus_exI'm sure bd2 could arrange that.16:03
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artur_tStirlitz opened the door. The light went on. Stirlitz closed the door. The light went out. Stirlitz opened the door again. The light went on! Stirlitz closed the door. The light went out! "A fridge!!!" concluded Stirlitz.16:10
deus_exartur_t: :)16:13
jaegerrandom task, show them what you do16:13
jorgphow do I do do a mass system upgrade with newer packages in ports16:15
artur_tprt-get sysup?16:15
* deus_ex watches Seinfeld reruns16:16
j^2jorgp: man prt-get16:16
deus_exprt-get is *the* man!16:17
deus_exit's much more fun then pacman :)16:18
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