IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2006-06-06

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sun2-68010hi folks00:14
jaegerheyo00:15
sun2-68010I cannot get any pkgadd to work (pout)00:15
sun2-68010none of the examples in handbook work00:16
jaegerwhat error(s) do you get when you try?00:16
sun2-68010or made sense (crossed eyes)00:16
sun2-68010pkgadd -u  bash#3.1.17-1.pkg.tar.gz00:16
sun2-68010the ports -u tells me that's the version number00:16
sun2-68010I invented that file name00:16
sun2-68010error msg is:00:16
sun2-68010pkgadd: could not open bash#3.1.17-1.pkg.tar.gz: No such file or directory00:16
sun2-68010<--- blond here00:17
jaegerright, because that package isn't built yet00:17
jaegerhave a look in /usr/ports/core/bash00:17
jaegerthere should be a Pkgfile there, that tells pkgutils how to make the bash package00:17
sun2-68010there's a couple patches is about all00:17
jaegerin that directory, run 'pkgmk -d' to download and build the package from source00:17
sun2-68010ok my teeny 2gig hard drive will gag if I have to source stuff00:18
jaegerafter that finishes, you can pkgadd it00:18
sun2-68010ahh thanks I was thinking I might need to get source00:18
jaegerah, crux is not the distro for that small a hard drive00:18
jaegersource-based distro00:18
sun2-68010jaeger LOL so very true!00:18
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sun2-68010thanks for the pointer, that will let me get stuff done now ^5 jaeger00:19
jaegerno problem00:19
sun2-68010as you can tell by my nic, I tend to use "older" stuff00:20
jaegernothing wrong with that, if it gets the job done00:21
sun2-68010so far crux is pretty cool, I was disturbed that sendmail runs as root, that's soooo last millenia00:22
jaegeryou're free to change that or replace it with another system, of course00:22
sun2-68010yep!00:23
sun2-68010<--- california US here00:24
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jaegercentral00:24
sun2-68010yikes, lots of lurkers here LOL00:24
jaegerthere always are, and we're spread all over the world, too00:25
sun2-68010cool, internet never ceases to amaze me00:25
prologicQ: Can I setup iptraf to log all valid traffic flowing through my network00:27
prologicthen get it to log anything else as invalid00:28
prologicI've been DDoS'd several times over the last couple of weeks, need to a. log it and b. block it (which is hard, so I'd have to get my isp to deal with it upstream)00:28
sun2-68010that's a big list, of what is "valid" (cough)00:28
sun2-68010anyways thanks jaeger, have a good one00:31
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predatorfreakprologic: iptables can limit the DDoS connections using the limit extension.00:58
predatorfreakBut you still get spammed either way, they just don't stay openl ong.00:58
predatorfreak-openl ong +open long00:58
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nipuL"sun2-68010> yikes, lots of lurkers here LOL"...i prefer the term idler ;P01:46
predatorfreaknipuL: I prefer the term "FBI Agent" :P01:51
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Romsterlurkers, ideler is more apropate02:39
* rxi stalks nipuL 02:42
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rxinymacro: a heap of sun ultra 60's turned up on ebay03:54
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rxinymacro: wouldnt be as fast as the hp c3700 but probably cheaper and supports java :)03:56
nymacroyeah :)03:56
nymacroi might check them out :)03:56
prologicpredatorfreak, yeah I have a very tight firewall03:57
prologichowever I must add that no matter how good my firewall is, it makes no difference03:58
prologicsimply because my pipe is full03:58
prologicI'm only blocking at my recieving end03:58
prologicthe stupid fuckers just love the DDoS UDP flood :/03:58
prologicall I can really do is prevent my machines from reacting to it, my inbound pipe is too full and renders my network useless for up to 20mins at a time03:59
predatorfreakprologic: I know.03:59
predatorfreakprologic: I just said the connection gets dropped.03:59
prologicwhy me huh :)03:59
predatorfreakprologic: I never said it was fool proof :P03:59
prologic:)03:59
prologicjust making sure we're on the same wave length :)03:59
prologiconly thing I hate is that you can't reset a udp packet04:01
predatorfreakprologic: <predatorfreak> But you still get spammed either way, they just don't stay openl ong.04:01
predatorfreak:P04:01
prologicit's a stateless protocl; ?04:01
nymacroc04:01
nymacro"connectionless"04:01
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nymacroprologic: what services do you have running using UDP?04:02
prologicnothing04:03
prologiconly my nameserver04:03
nymacro:/04:03
prologicthis is weird too04:04
prologicI keep getting a lot of ICMP reqs04:04
Romsterpinging you?04:04
predatorfreakprologic: Wasn't me! :P04:04
prologicit would appears I'm under a constant ping floood04:05
prologicbut I do limit those packets04:05
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nymacrowhy not drop them all :P04:05
prologicI could04:05
* predatorfreak get's working on updating pkgutils to support SHA256 hashes.04:06
predatorfreakFor the time being I suppose I'll have to add both and some way of knowing which-is-which.04:08
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predatorfreakWoohoo, implementation complete and fully functional :D04:24
mike_kwoohoo implementation?04:26
predatorfreakmike_k: I just added sha256 support to pkgmk.04:28
mike_kcool04:29
predatorfreakand later I'm going to use some features of the hashing suite I'm using to implement support for it to lower the code size.04:29
predatorfreakSince md5deep (and all the programs from that suite) support comparing files full of hashes automatically.04:30
predatorfreakand I can use that to verify that things are in order, instead of diff.04:30
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pitillo[OT] talking about filtering. My script is at http://lokalix.dyndns.org/tmp/firewall.txt if anyone want to take a look and comment something. :)04:31
predatorfreakpitillo: Function nuttery!04:33
predatorfreakThe functions only seem to be called once, really.04:33
predatorfreakSo why do they even exist? :P04:33
predatorfreakFunctions should always be called at least more than once.04:34
mike_kIn that case might be true04:34
mike_kbut in general, they allow easy extension04:34
predatorfreakmike_k: He's not doing anything to expansive here.04:35
predatorfreakSo I don't see the need for functions.04:35
predatorfreakHe can easily add rules later.04:35
predatorfreakSeems like code-bloat to me.04:35
predatorfreak-to +too04:36
predatorfreakmike_k: My policy when creating functions: Am I using that same thing more than once or similar code that could easily be put into an all-encompasing function?04:37
predatorfreakmike_k: That policy has served me very well :)04:38
mike_kplus thinking one-two steps forward usually helps avoiding rewrites )04:39
predatorfreakmike_k: Unless he's going to expand it into an all-encompasing system for managing his iptables rules.04:40
predatorfreakI don't see anything that needs to be rewritten at all.04:40
predatorfreakIt just looks like a personal-use-only script, really.04:40
pitillopredatorfreak, its the first version with functions.... I?m making changes :) The importat is the rules used.04:41
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predatorfreakpitillo: Yes.04:43
predatorfreakpitillo: You asked for comments and I commented :P04:43
* predatorfreak starts using sha256deep to do what diff does.04:44
pitillopredatorfreak, thanks for the comment :)04:44
predatorfreakpitillo: No problem.04:46
predatorfreakI like being a critic :D04:46
pitillo:)04:46
* predatorfreak relooks at the code and realises to do what diff does with sha256deep would require more code, so he leaves it.04:47
* predatorfreak also realises he broke backwards compatibility, in a minor way.04:49
* predatorfreak also let's the mismatch thing display only md5/sha256 mismatches, if one differs but the other doesn't.04:52
predatorfreakand I found a bug :D04:54
predatorfreakGotta love first implementations.04:54
* predatorfreak leaves -um/-im, since he'd break other stuff.04:58
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predatorfreakhttp://www.dcaf-security.org/ports/pkgutils-sha256/05:35
predatorfreakFor all those who give a crap.05:36
pitilloI got the idea from vektori?s rc.firewall script. I made a change and I?m working in it. It?s nice to have it with functions.05:42
predatorfreakpitillo: I don't see the point really.05:44
predatorfreakBut whatever.05:44
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sepenpitillo, I think that another solution could be store your filter in /etc/rc.d/netfilter and add it to /etc/rc.conf05:47
sepenand you will can switch between diferents configs of your filter05:48
pitillopredatorfreak, the point is to have a clean script... With functions is easy to read the scripts and understand how it works, only seen the last calls to functions. (I dont know if I?ve explained t :)05:52
predatorfreakpitillo: I can understand a ton of rules just as easily as I can functions.05:53
predatorfreakSo the functions just add lines in my book :)05:53
pitilloxD05:53
predatorfreakThen again, I'm not half-bad at shell script :)05:54
pitillopredatorfreak, nice observation. Good critic.05:54
predatorfreakpitillo: Maybe I should become a professional code critic?05:54
pitilloxD05:55
predatorfreak"I dislike all the pointless variables of fdgdfg version 1.0, slim down on crappy variables people!"05:55
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guaquaanyone experienced with initng?07:28
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datevhi all08:00
predatorfreakjaeger: Hi.08:00
predatorfreakdatev: Hi.08:00
jaegermorning08:00
predatorfreakjaeger: http://www.dcaf-security.org/ports/pkgutils-sha256/pkgutils-5.20-sha256.patch08:00
datevi have a little problem when trying to do prt-get depinst xterm, maybe i am not the only one08:01
predatorfreakjaeger: Rough patch to add sha256 support to pkgutils.08:01
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predatorfreakI didn't rename -im/-um/-cm to approitate names to maintain backwards compatibility.08:01
predatorfreakjaeger: and yes I realise it's kinda useless, but most people seem to be moving towards SHA256 as a replacement for MD5, since MD5 has been broken.08:02
ningopredatorfreak: I'd suggested rijndael08:03
deus_exMD5 broken?Link, please?08:03
predatorfreakningo: Rijndael?08:03
jaegerpredatorfreak: ok. I'll have a look at it08:03
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Wikipedia has the details.08:03
ningohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rijndael08:04
deus_expredatorfreak:It always does :)08:04
predatorfreakningo: AES isn't a sane solution :P08:05
predatorfreakjaeger: Also, it requires md5deep, as I have yet to find a decent sha256 hashing program besides sha256deep, which is included with md5deep.08:05
predatorfreakAt least that works similar md5sum.08:06
ningopredatorfreak: neither is SHA08:09
predatorfreakningo: Neither is MD5 :P08:10
predatorfreakNone of the options are sane.08:11
predatorfreakSome are just saner than the others :)08:11
ningoI'd say MD5 < SHA-x < AES08:11
predatorfreakningo: The way I look at it SHA is the best drop-in solution.08:13
predatorfreakBut the long term fix is to just use something less bitch-fuckable.08:14
predatorfreakningo: AES isn't a drop-in replacement now is it? :)08:14
datevmaybe someone can help me08:15
predatorfreakdatev: Shoot.08:15
datevthis is the error , when trying to do prt-get depinst xterm08:15
datevhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/2091308:15
predatorfreak/bin/sh ./minstall.sh "/usr/bin/install -c -m 644" ./xterm.man    /usr/ports/contrib/xterm/work/pkg/usr/man/man1/`echo xterm|    sed 's,x,08:16
predatorfreakx,'`.1  /usr/ports/contrib/xterm/work/pkg(exec_prefix\)/lib/X11/app-defaults08:16
predatorfreakLooks like a busted Makefile.08:16
datevis must tell that i don't use the x11(opt), i use xorg (x11r7)08:16
deus_ex"The copy prevention system of Microsoft's Xbox game console relies on the security of SHA-1."08:16
datevand what should i try ?08:16
predatorfreakdeus_ex: HHAHHAHAHA.08:16
deus_exCute...08:17
predatorfreakdeus_ex: FIRE UP THE HAXMOBILE.08:17
predatorfreakdatev: As I said.08:17
predatorfreakIt looks like a busted Makefile.08:17
predatorfreakin which case.08:17
predatorfreakBug the upstream folks.08:17
predatorfreakWe can hack around their Makefile.08:17
predatorfreakBut upstream should really fix it themselves.08:17
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jaegeris stderr redirected in that build log?08:18
datevwhen i look in the ports dir of xterm i see a configure.diff ;)08:18
jaegerhttp://pastebin.com/76226308:18
jaegermine looks a bit different but does fail08:18
datev:D08:18
* predatorfreak rebuilds xterm.08:19
datevok ;)08:19
datevthx for help08:19
predatorfreakjaeger: pkg(exec_prefix\)08:19
jaegeryeah08:20
predatorfreakLooks like you could just work around it.08:20
predatorfreaksed -i :P08:20
predatorfreakYeah mine works fine.08:20
jaegerit's the configure.diff that breaks it08:20
predatorfreakjaeger: Yup.08:20
datevyes ;)08:20
predatorfreakI don't batch mine :P08:20
datevand how to fix it ?08:20
jaegerjust comment that out08:20
predatorfreak-batch +patch08:20
jaegerI find it odd that Han's patch says "fix a stupid bashism" when it's breaking in bash because of the patch08:21
predatorfreakjaeger: It's fixing a bashism, not compatibility with bash :P08:21
predatorfreakjaeger: Remember, Han is a diehard anti-bash person.08:21
jaegeryeah, but testing would have been nice08:22
datevnice ;)08:22
datevthx08:22
predatorfreakjaeger: Secondary thing to remember: Han's to busy funding some 'people' to test patches ;)08:22
jaegerpredatorfreak: he seems generally a die-hard anti-(whatever everyone else likes) person08:23
predatorfreakjaeger: Surprises me not.08:23
jaegerof course08:23
predatorfreak...... crap I can't even talk right anymore.08:23
predatorfreakDoesn't surprise me at all*08:23
jaegerthe former works as well08:24
predatorfreakjaeger: It might work but it's murder :P08:25
predatorfreakjaeger: It's like "All your base are belong to us."08:25
predatorfreakWhich will be the opening line in my speech when I become President :)08:26
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jaegeractually, that's a much more correct english construct than "all your base" :)08:27
jaegerblame english for allowing us to do things like that08:27
predatorfreakjaeger: Yup :)08:27
predatorfreakjaeger: Time to learn Finnish!08:27
jaegerheh08:28
jaegerI don't know that I could make my mouth do those things08:28
predatorfreakjaeger: Well I can beat Yoga masters without knowing Yoga and insult them in Old Norse at the same thing.08:29
predatorfreaktime*08:29
predatorfreakI think my mouth can handle Finnish :)08:29
jaegermad skills08:29
predatorfreakjaeger: Of course.08:30
predatorfreakjaeger: Any comments on the SHA256 patch?08:30
jaegerit looks usable, haven't tried it08:31
predatorfreakjaeger: I stool Han's pkgutils awhile ago and hacked on them quite abit, that patch was tested.08:31
predatorfreakWorked fine in all my tests.08:31
predatorfreakand I've got my pkgutils with a different version of the same basic thing.08:32
predatorfreakNo problems I can see.08:32
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predatorfreakjaeger: Gotta love boredness, it propels me to do things like that :P08:33
jaegerheh08:33
predatorfreakjaeger: I suppose I could have just Zerg Rushed the Protoss or something, but scripting was more fun :D08:33
jaegerI find scripting more fun than Starcraft any day08:34
jaegerbut I've never been an RTS fan08:35
predatorfreakjaeger: I am an RTS die-hard.08:35
predatorfreakI love my C&C and Starcraft, what can I say? Commie/Zerg rushing never get's old :P08:36
jaegerfathom and I got attacked by a C&C zealot in Best Buy one day here08:36
jaegerthe guy wouldn't stop going on about how the C&C series was better than anything else ever invented in the history of ever08:36
predatorfreakHAHAHAHA08:36
predatorfreakjaeger: More like fanatic.08:37
jaegereven after he noticed we weren't listening08:37
predatorfreakjaeger: That's when you get the pointy stick :)08:37
jaegermaybe he didn't notice08:37
jaegeryeah, wish I'd had one, hehe08:37
predatorfreakjaeger: I can lend you one :D08:37
predatorfreakSkull-free, even.08:37
jaegerI'll just take my sword next time I feel like that will happen :)08:38
predatorfreakjaeger: I like jabbing people with either pointy sticks or daggers :D08:39
predatorfreakjaeger: Pointy sticks to say "shut up", daggers to say "STFU."08:39
jaegerwhile the sword says something like *SCHINK* *PLOP*08:39
jaegerunfortunately I'd get arrested for carrying that around08:40
predatorfreakjaeger: See, pointy sticks aren't considered a weapon.08:41
predatorfreakand daggers are concealable :)08:41
predatorfreakPlus I could get off with self defensive on daggers.08:41
jaegereverything's considered a weapon here... americans are insane08:41
predatorfreakjaeger: I live in America to, interesting.08:41
predatorfreakjaeger: Different America? :P08:41
jaegernah, same one. but I'm technically not american :)08:41
predatorfreakjaeger: Ah, NOW I SEE.08:42
predatorfreakAmericans: YOUR NOT ONE OF US.08:42
predatorfreakAmericans: OHSHI YOU HAVE A KNIFE.08:42
predatorfreakAmerican Police: MINORITY SUBJECT, ARREST.08:42
predatorfreakjaeger: About correct? :P08:42
jaegerbut one of many possible scenarios08:42
predatorfreakjaeger: :)08:43
predatorfreakjaeger: Just tell them Brett Goulder is covering your ass, even though they'll be like "Who the hell is he?".08:43
predatorfreakGotta build a name for myself in the underworld :P08:43
jaegerheh08:44
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deus_exFsck.I hit the wrong button in xfce menu.08:48
deus_exWhat happended to shutdown menu?08:49
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Went nuclear?08:49
deus_exNo more "Logout, shutdown, reboot" buttons, just whoom, log out.08:50
deus_expredatorfreak: Not yet, but I'm close.08:50
predatorfreakdeus_ex: So am I.08:51
predatorfreakJust need another 6 bucks.08:51
deus_exYou're 'Merican, you always are :)08:51
deus_ex6 bucks for what?08:52
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predatorfreakdeus_ex: My new ICBM.08:52
predatorfreakMr. Boom :}08:52
deus_ex'New' ICBM? What the hell happened to old one?08:53
deus_exNo, wait.I don't want to know.08:53
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predatorfreakdeus_ex: heheheheh.08:54
deus_exOur friendly Russians can probably get you good price for it.08:55
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Don't worry, Sir. Nuclear-fuck-you-in-the-ass is still sitting in his silo :)08:55
deus_exI've had my share of experience with US Army, thank you very much.08:56
deus_exF-18's flying over my head.'Nice'.08:57
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I'm not in the U.S. Military :}08:57
deus_expredatorfreak: I think that you watched 'Dr.Strangelove' one time too many :)08:58
rxilol08:58
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Nope, more like I plotted some nice world domination and decided to buy some nukes :)08:58
* predatorfreak screams "WORLD DOMINATION."08:58
deus_exWorld damnation, more like it.08:59
deus_exYou remember the deal we made, don't you?08:59
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Yes.09:00
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Just remember the Russian women remain mine.09:00
predatorfreak'TIS COLD IN SIBERIA, IS IT NOT?09:01
deus_exYeah, yeah.Blondes and redheads, I remember.09:01
koefzYeah, no need for a heatsink on the cpu there.09:01
deus_exkoefz: :-)09:01
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I thought we agreed I didn't want the Blondes?09:01
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deus_exNo, you didn't want brunettes.09:02
deus_exSen and I agrred to take them.09:02
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I prefer the black haired and redheads. ones, better plotters.09:02
predatorfreak-extra .09:02
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predatorfreakdeus_ex: Okay so I'll take the Blondes anyway.09:02
predatorfreakThey don't plot as well but they're more controllable :D09:03
deus_exGood call, since 2/3 of russian ladies are blondes, afaik.09:03
deus_exSlavic people are like that.09:04
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deus_exTurks adore blondes, for some reason.09:04
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Weird.09:04
predatorfreakI prefer plotting women, keeps me on the edge, since I have to always remember they're plotting against me :)09:05
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deus_exIf you know that blondes are very rare in Turkey, it's not that weird.09:05
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Well, decent women are a rarity in America these days.09:06
deus_ex'Decent'?As in 'normal'?09:07
predatorfreakdeus_ex: No, normal here is cutting your wrists, it would seem.09:07
deus_exHeh, they are rare anywhere, my friend.09:08
predatorfreakI'm talking about women who are smart and well educated, who tend to think instead of bitching.09:08
predatorfreakBut 90% of women in America love to bitch.09:08
deus_exI have a pleasure of knowing a few.09:09
Hanpredatorfreak, oh quit moaning about bitches :P09:09
predatorfreakHan: Hi.09:10
Hanhi predatorfreak09:10
deus_exHi,Han.09:10
Hanhi deus_ex09:10
predatorfreakdeus_ex: What? Bitches or Decent women? :P09:10
deus_exDecent woman.09:11
Hanwomen09:11
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Lucky bastard.09:11
deus_exHan:oops. :)09:11
predatorfreakHan: How's stuff going for you?09:11
HanOh it's finaly nice weather again. :-)09:13
predatorfreakHan: Enjoy then.09:14
HanI have no more wishes in live but good weather ;-)09:14
predatorfreakMe and the sun don't "agree".09:14
predatorfreakThe sun always tries to either tan me or burn me alive.09:14
predatorfreakand I don't like either!09:14
deus_ex"Bruce Willis to battle internet villians in 'Die Hard 4'"09:15
HanAnd where in the US do you live exactly?09:16
deus_exThat should be fun to watch...09:16
predatorfreakHan: Michigan.09:16
HanErhmmm that's in the north, isn't it? Howcome the sun is so powerfull over there09:18
predatorfreakHan: Because I am almost a ghost.09:18
predatorfreakHan: Explaination enough? :P09:18
HanNext to Canada, neir Lake Eiri09:18
Hanpredatorfreak, Are you a red-head? :-)09:18
predatorfreakHan: That question is two things at once.09:19
predatorfreakCreepy and funny.09:19
predatorfreakI'm not sure which I should be more concerned about.09:19
HanWell I had a red-head girlfriend, and she always wears a big hat in summer.09:19
ningodeus_ex: in this film, the internet goes "KABOOM"09:19
predatorfreakHan: Nah, I'm just a pale geek :P09:20
predatorfreakningo: Interesting.09:20
predatorfreakningo: Then why are we still talking? :P09:21
Hanpredatorfreak, play more basketball ;-)09:21
ningopredatorfreak: because a film is fiction?09:21
predatorfreakHan: Bahhh, sports are for jocks!09:21
predatorfreakningo: True.09:21
HanWhy, thank you! :-)09:21
deus_exningo: I guess he will chase evil hackers or....spammers.09:21
predatorfreakdeus_ex: SPAM SPAM SPAM WONDERFUL SPAM!09:22
deus_exMP classic :)09:22
ningoshut up you bloody viking09:22
predatorfreakdestruct: :)09:22
predatorfreakningo: OPRESSION!09:22
predatorfreak-destruct +deus_ex09:22
deus_exNee,nee,nee!09:24
predatorfreakdeus_ex: It's nii.09:24
ningonii!09:24
deus_exReally?09:24
predatorfreakYup.09:24
deus_exMy bad.09:24
predatorfreakNII!09:24
ningoVery.09:24
* Han goes of being a jock09:24
deus_exhttp://www.knightsofnee.com/knightsofnee/09:25
predatorfreakdeus_ex: HEATHENRY.09:25
predatorfreakHan: Oh, you like sports? No offense intended :P09:25
ningosports is good for your health09:25
predatorfreakhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_who_say_Ni09:26
predatorfreakWe're all wrong.09:26
deus_expredatorfreak: What?09:26
predatorfreakIt's Ni.09:26
deus_exSo?09:26
* Han beats up predatorfreak09:26
predatorfreakHan: I'M CALLING THE COPS!09:27
predatorfreakdeus_ex: We must not be Monty Python heathens :P09:27
Hanheh09:28
ningoI personally prefer the knights of an odd string of syllables09:28
predatorfreakHehehe.09:29
deus_exWe are the keepers of the sacred words:  Ni, Ping, and Nee-womm!09:30
predatorfreakdeus_ex: NI!09:31
deus_expredatorfreak: Macbeth.09:31
predatorfreakdeus_ex: K.09:34
ningohttp://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Satan09:37
deus_exningo: It's his day today?6.06.2006?09:37
deus_exPremiere of 'Omen' here today.09:38
ningodeus_ex: yes. THE END IS NEAR!!109:39
ningo. o O ( I love the prophets of Empire Earth )09:39
deus_exAncient indian prophecy sets this day as beggining of the end of the world.09:40
deus_exYeah, right.09:40
ningowell, even the end has a start09:40
* deus_ex plays Orbital-Satan09:41
* predatorfreak arms nukes.09:42
predatorfreakdeus_ex: If it's ending today.09:42
predatorfreakI'm nuking Japan!09:42
deus_exLet me evacuate japan AV chicks before that.09:43
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predatorfreakdeus_ex: K.09:44
deus_exWhy is Japan always american's first pick?09:44
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Well, I must purge the Japanese cars from existence first.09:44
predatorfreakOtherwise I'd be nuking France.09:45
predatorfreakFreaking french and their language of love.09:45
deus_exTHen nuke GM first.09:45
jaegerif it's about cars, start right here09:45
predatorfreakjaeger: So long as I go back in time, I enjoy American cars.09:45
predatorfreakThe exceptions to my dislike of modern car designs is some of the new Ford's, like the Viper, Mustang and GT.09:46
predatorfreakThey actually look like muscle cars.09:46
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deus_expredatorfreak: http://www.astonmartin.com/thecars/db909:47
deus_exNow, *that's* a car!09:47
predatorfreakdeus_ex: http://www.svs.com/zim/mustang/images/68-A.jpg09:48
* deus_ex likes :)09:48
aonsuch cars are so pointless :)09:49
aonno rationalism at all, just compensation of small genitalia and ego09:49
predatorfreakI'm a muscle car fanatic.09:49
deus_exaon: That's the point :)09:49
predatorfreakI like the looks, I like the sleek design.09:49
predatorfreakWell, If I had the money I'd get my ass a Motorcycle license and a Harley.09:50
deus_exAll looks , no soul, most of them.09:50
predatorfreakBut I'm not rich :P09:50
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Souls are for the weak!09:50
aoni'd like a mz, jawa, ural or dnepr or sth09:50
aonbut ya, i can't fork the money for the license and insurance either09:51
aonand a car is rather convenient compared to a bike :)09:51
deus_expredatorfreak: You'll learn, eventually :)09:51
predatorfreakaon: I'm kinda falling in love with the Judas Priest "Hell Bent For Leather" style.09:51
aonlol09:52
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Modern car designs displease me, most of them lack the rough, powerful image I like.09:52
aoni've been harassed most by bmw drivers :/09:52
predatorfreakThey appeal to the sleek person in me.09:52
predatorfreakBut they trash my love of power.09:52
predatorfreakPlus they are a boosting platform for people with money.09:53
deus_exI've seen some pretty cool rides on SEMA(on TV).09:53
deus_exBit vulgar for my taste, but cool nevertheless.09:54
aonheh09:54
* predatorfreak get's a Harley and rides it on-stage like Rob Halford, but then realises he can't sing.09:56
aonare you as homosexual as him?09:56
aonnormal ppl can walk onto a stage09:57
deus_exSpeaking of vulgar:http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/news/10741/Lamborghini_Murcielago_Roadster-3-L.jpg09:57
aonew09:57
predatorfreakaon: Nah.09:57
predatorfreakaon: Although at least I know you know something of Priest ;P09:59
aon:)10:00
jaegerdeus_ex: I love stills of cars in motion; my car looks just as fast as that mercielago in the right pictures :)10:00
jaegerhttp://jaeger.morpheus.net/images/autocross/0087.jpg10:00
aonneither of them look that fast to me :)10:01
jaegerhehe10:01
jaegerexactly10:01
deus_exjaeger: Nice helmet.10:02
jaegerthanks10:02
aonVAG makes them _that_ unsafe? :)10:02
predatorfreakjaeger: I think you ran over my grandma :P10:02
jaegernah, the car's fine, the SCCA has rules about autocross driving10:02
jaegerhelmet required no matter what you drive10:02
aonhm, time to do a small trip with my 60hp :) ->10:02
jaegerpredatorfreak: that was a dodge :)10:03
deus_exjaeger: What place did you end up on?10:03
deus_exOr was that for fun only?10:03
jaegerdeus_ex: I've no idea, that was some time ago... but there are lots of people there with way more experience than me, so probably not that high10:03
jaegerI do it mostly for fun10:03
deus_exjaeger: OK.10:05
jaeger4th generation volkswagens are very heavy, it's hard to compete10:05
jdolan_<jdolan_> arch is like a little wart that fell off of CRUX's ass.10:06
predatorfreakjaeger: http://jaeger.morpheus.net/images/travel/2006-mar-london/ <-- Take me next time you go to London, I have people I must stalk in England :P10:06
jdolan_i kill myself..10:06
jaegerwith my car modified the way it is, I'm unfortunately in the same class as people driving subaru WRXs10:06
jaegerpredatorfreak: duly noted10:06
predatorfreakjaeger: Although, my recommendation is to avoid the person I need to stalk there, as he'll be like "OMFG A CRUX DEVELOPER, CAN I HAVE YOUR AUTOGRAPH?"10:07
jaegeralso duly noted10:07
* jaeger makes a list10:07
jaegeranyone done a clean install of gnome on crux since the 2.14.1 release?10:08
deus_ex"Relatively speaking, CRUX is extremely small and10:09
deus_extight.  Much like the ideal woman."10:09
predatorfreakdeus_ex: PEDO.10:09
deus_expredatorfreak: Yes, that was my nickname.Your point?10:10
deus_exBTW, that's quote from JDolan :)10:10
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Oh, in which case.10:10
predatorfreakjdolan: PEDOPHILE!10:11
deus_expredatorfreak: Chill.10:11
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I just like calling people pedophiles :P10:12
predatorfreakIt's cheap entertainment :)10:12
deus_ex5-15 years in prison.not so cheap.10:12
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Hersey doesn't hold up in court.10:13
predatorfreakI'm not even accusing him of anything, I just like doing that for fun.10:13
predatorfreakdeus_ex: or you for that matter :P10:13
deus_exThat's a relief :-)10:14
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deus_exNot that I've done something...10:17
predatorfreakdeus_ex: AH HA!10:17
* predatorfreak calls in FBI! :P10:17
predatorfreakoh wait.....10:17
predatorfreakYour not in the U.S.10:17
predatorfreakShit.10:17
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* predatorfreak hugs rsync --exclude, now it won't annihilate his .sha256sum files <310:26
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predatorfreakj^2: Hi.10:41
j^2yo10:41
predatorfreakj^2: How's the people eating.... errr..... life going.10:43
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j^2haha, not to shabby, tired as all hell10:44
j^2you?10:44
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predatorfreakj^2: Priming to go to The Omen :P10:45
predatorfreakGotta see movies with the antichrist on 6.6.06 :P10:45
j^2haha10:47
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kensaite world ends today!!!!!!!!! LOL10:48
RyoSxexe10:49
RyoSthis is VVeIrD10:49
RyoS:x10:49
VVeIrDoah10:50
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VVeIrDpah10:50
RyoS=D10:50
RyoSyoohoo ^^10:50
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* predatorfreak launches nukes on Japan!10:51
* kensai launches amarok while preparing breakfast!10:53
RyoSkensai is more dangerous than predatorfreak in my opinion10:53
predatorfreakRyoS: I am forced to agree.10:54
kensaiRyoS: damn right yo!10:54
RyoS;)10:55
kensaieven worst I'm hearing Rock Music10:55
kensaiBoo!10:55
RyoS:O!!10:55
predatorfreakHeathen.10:56
predatorfreakPlay Priest.10:56
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jaegerHan: elicit seems to be missing from contrib yet contrib/e17 requires it11:18
tilmanthe dependencies on elicit entice and iconbar seem to be stupid in general11:19
tilmane17 includes an iconbar thingy that's arguably leeter than iconbar11:20
maronew shadow11:21
marowonder what they're up to this time :)11:21
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Broomycan i get a hardcopy of the crux manual?11:25
co|workIf we are allowed to send you printing cartridges11:26
aonyes11:26
aonsteps to get one:11:26
aon1) download11:26
aon2) print11:26
Broomywoh printing the whole thing would take ages and it would be costly too11:27
Broomyright?11:27
jaegerBroomy: there's a copy on the cdrom in /crux/handbook.txt, that's as close to hard copy as there is11:27
aonBroomy: no, if you do it on a public laser printer11:27
aonwhich can be found in schools, libraries etc.11:27
Broomyhehe :D11:27
aon(although libraries usually have some fee but if it isn't enforced in hw/sw you can just print and run)11:28
aonyou might get into the local newspaper11:28
aonA FREE SOFTWARE TERRORIST STOLE TAX-FUNDED PAPER!11:29
Broomylol11:29
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aon;(11:29
jjpkI don't see the logic there. :p11:30
jjpk"gimme a hardcopy of the manual!!!11 /me too lazy to print it"11:31
co|workthat calls for a paypal funded public lpd11:33
aonlol :)11:34
aoni wonder if that one norwegian printer server is still open to the internet11:34
co|workand what is a hardcopied handbook without the matching panties and t-shirts11:34
aoni lost the ip, sadly :(11:34
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kensaihmm so strange glxgears is giving me a poor 500 FPS and in Arch Linux it give me a 3,000 FPS12:22
marokensai: it's a sign12:23
marokensai: you're meant to use arch12:23
kensaibah12:23
kensaithere might be something wrong12:24
kensaiin all others distros I have used in the past GLXGEARS give 3,000 FPS12:24
marothen that's a sign too12:24
maroyou're not meant to use crux12:25
kensaiomg12:25
kensaihave you anything more usefull to say?12:25
marohelping newbies to use distros meant for techies is counter productive12:26
bd2kensai, have you installed nvidia or ati drivers? have you used gl-select? have you edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?12:26
bd2have you read README from nvidia/ati drivers?12:26
bd2and I mean not READMEs from ports, but from nvidia/ati.12:28
kensaiok I have the nvidia driver from port and I have edited xorg.conf like I always do12:29
kensaiI have st up nvidia driver in like 30+ distros12:29
bd2kensai, have you run "gl-select nvidia"?12:29
bd2look at /usr/ports/opt/gl-select/12:29
bd2also, I don't know is gl-select bug fixed, but you must check that /usr/lib/libGL.so.XXXX -> /usr/lib/libGL.so symlink exists12:30
bd2or you can use nvidia port from Han repositry12:30
kensaigl-select command does not exist12:30
bd2kensai  /usr/ports/opt/gl-select12:30
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jjpk:p12:31
bd2oh. he gave up ;-)12:32
jjpkYou sure? He likes to jump around all the time in #crux, that is nothing new.12:32
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kensaiomg thanks bd2 gl-select nvidia was all I needed now I got the same fps12:33
kensaias with other distros12:33
bd2kensai, gl-select mentioned in /usr/ports/opt/nvidia/README12:33
marobd2: why read that when you can get your ass wiped for free with irc?12:36
bd2maro, you right. there are no reasons to read. :-))12:36
maro:)12:37
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j^2hey all13:38
jjpkhey13:38
guaquaey13:39
jrichhey13:39
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aonhey13:45
j^2hey jjpk guaqua jrich and my swede friend aon ;)13:47
aonomg, i have been upgraded to western europia!113:48
j^2haha amazing aint it?13:48
* Romster raises an eyebrow13:50
guaquahaha13:50
Romstermorning everyone13:50
j^2hey to make yall "metric users" happy, it's 32C outside right now here in texas13:54
aonit's good to see that you're starting to migrate to the standard units13:56
guaquato make yall "medieval users" happy, it's 10F outside right now here in finland13:56
aonhere in finland it's 297K inside13:57
j^2guaqua, why thank you,...and damn that's cold13:57
aonhow much is that?13:58
j^2i'm gonna go beat my wife now13:58
* j^2 gets his beating stick13:58
tilmanget drunk first please13:58
tilmanand wear a cowboy hat13:58
guaquaerr13:58
guaquamore like 50F13:58
guaqua10C13:58
guaquaoopsydaisy13:58
aontilman: afaik all texans have one implanted to their head at birth13:59
j^2hey i LOVE stella artios...it only works13:59
j^2guaqua, still...that's "pleasent"13:59
tilmando you mean "stellar ratios"?13:59
j^2the beer13:59
tilmanaon: oh, of course :P13:59
j^2stella artios14:00
guaquayou can do in-line skating outside, so it's good enough :)14:00
j^2the belgium beer14:00
guaquastella artois14:00
j^2yeah14:00
tilmand'oh :P14:00
j^2:P14:00
guaquaharhar14:01
guaquathey're trying to recruit me into the us army14:01
aon;o14:01
j^2?14:02
guaquai wonder what happens if i say yes14:02
j^2haha14:02
j^2they will hound you till no end14:02
j^2i had to tell them i had diabetes14:02
aonguaqua: you get one of these: http://kauppa.varusteleka.fi/tuotteet/index.php?nayta=us-ecwfmblk14:02
guaquaare they just gonna wait till i enter us soil and put me into jail for taking a leave without permission :D14:02
aon"Because of this excellent piece of winter equipment the U.S. army can fight in even -20°C!!" :DD:D:D14:02
guaquaaon: that looks like something i could get from an sm store14:03
guaquaoh well, the americans :)14:03
aonwell, haven't you seen the abu ghraib pictures? u.s. army is basically a big SM family14:04
j^2hey we love our fun toys14:04
j^2...i just realized how bad that sounded14:05
tilmanhttp://kauppa.varusteleka.fi/tuotteet/index.php?nayta=us-ecwfmblk14:05
tilmanjoke? wtf?14:05
aonno, i'm afraid it's not :(14:06
aonit's what the americans use to manage extreme weather conditions such as -20°C14:06
aon...which is where normal people start wearing a hat14:06
tilman;>14:07
jjpkhahaha.14:08
jjpk*extreme* conditions such as -20. :D14:08
jjpkThe enem.. "wtf is that? the attack of the gimps?"14:09
aon:D14:10
tilman!!14:10
jjpkThey would win with those just because they make their opponents laugh relentlessly.14:10
bd2btw, people who live at ~+30 C all the time (near equator, for example), can simply die (get overcold) at +15 C. biology14:13
jjpko_o14:13
bd2yep. they used to higher temperature. their natural temp. regulation not used to such contrasts14:15
aon:o14:23
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Romsteri consider anything under 10C to be too cold14:26
Romsterused to 20-40C temps14:26
Romsterthat mask just looks silly14:27
guaquai consider under -30C too cold14:27
Romsterreminds me of something of that prisioner that was very dangerious on a movie i've forgoten the name of14:27
aonyeah, under -35 starts to be pretty ridiculous14:27
guaquaanything above that one can manage14:27
aonbut then again, trying to do any serious work in over +30 is rather painful for me14:28
Romsteryeah14:28
Romsteri've worked on a 40C day b4 not plesent14:28
Romsterok if your lazing around not doing much though14:29
aonRomster: http://www.blogdecine.com/images/behindthemask.jpg ? :)14:29
Romsterthats the one!!14:30
aonthe silence of the lambs in english iirc14:30
Romsterhmm might of been14:31
tilmanyes, it is14:32
Romsterbrrr freazing outside14:34
Romsternearly for got to put my rubish out14:34
Romster2C no ownder lol14:35
Romsterwonder*14:35
Romsteryeah thats the movie, it was a good one14:39
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j^2hey, has anyone heard of14:41
j^2http://www.workrave.org/welcome/14:42
Romsterhrmm interesting14:43
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j^2yeah its a neat concept eh?14:44
Romsteri haven't heard of but yeah when ya programming or something on the pc one dosn't take many breaks14:44
Romsteryeah14:44
* Romster reads it some more14:44
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Romsterhmm be interesting to try that out14:47
Romsterknoing my ignorance i'd be postponeing it alot lol14:47
j^2yeah i've got a feeling i'll have to get used to it14:48
j^2but it's worth a couple day shot14:48
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Romsteryeah make a port of it :)14:50
predatorfreakI return!14:50
j^2hehe i would if i were infront of a crux box14:50
Romsteryou arn't?14:50
j^2nope14:50
Romsteroh14:51
j^2i'm at work14:51
Romsterah k14:51
j^2stupid rhel4 boxen14:51
Romsteri could make a port so its ready wehn your home :/14:51
Romsterewww14:51
Romsteris that red hat i decypher?14:51
Romsterel4?14:51
Romsterernterprise level 4?14:51
j^2yep red hat enterprize linux 4 or some shit14:51
j^2yep14:51
Romsterenter*14:51
Romsterah14:51
Romsterecky14:52
Romsterthats worse than mandrake14:52
Romsterrofl14:52
predatorfreakj^2: For the record, The Omen has one of the most over-the-top deaths since Freddie Vs Jason.14:52
Romsterwell least its not winblows lol14:52
predatorfreakoh and if I have kids.14:52
predatorfreakI'm getting a psycho satanist nanny.14:53
Romstermake sure you got a celler :P14:53
j^2predatorfreak, hahah lovely14:53
Romsterlol14:53
predatorfreakWho tries to challenge my car with a sledgehammer.14:53
guaquanow that there are more ppl active, any experiences from initng?14:53
j^2i still cant believe that you _paid_ for it14:53
predatorfreakguaqua: That's primarily a Gentoo thing :P14:53
predatorfreakj^2: Ahh, it's 6.6.06, I have to get some nostaglia in today.14:53
guaquawell, anyway?14:54
predatorfreakguaqua: I somehow highly doubt anyone here uses it.14:54
guaquathat's what i thought too :)14:54
j^2ah yeah my favor sandwitch place was playing death metal over the speakers14:54
Romsterinit nar14:54
Romsterintrid?14:54
predatorfreakj^2: Hahahaha.14:54
predatorfreakCommenerating satan day with DEATH METAL :P14:55
ningosatan day...14:55
ningobtw, 2 hours to go and I'm still waiting14:55
predatorfreakningo: It is 6.6.06.14:55
predatorfreakOh.14:55
ningopredatorfreak: I know14:55
treachsatan day? It just happens to be our "national celebration-day" :p14:56
predatorfreaktreach: and where exactly do you live?14:56
Romsterah the 6/6/2006 thing14:56
treachsweden.14:56
Romsteri had that yesterday!!14:56
predatorfreaktreach: Say hello to the Pirate Party for me.14:56
ningotreach: it's not unknown to the rest of the world, that the swedes have a contract with the devil14:56
tilmanjjpk: btw, bo summer is the shit live. if you have a chance, go see illdisposed/panzerchrist :D14:56
treachningo: I think that's a roumour started by mpaa. ;)14:57
ningoBah, my sweat is glueing my keyboardkeys together14:58
predatorfreaktreach: and tell their leader he owes me 100 bucks!14:58
predatorfreakThe bastard ran out in the middle of a poker game :(14:58
predatorfreakand I had a royal flush!14:58
treachjust be happy you didn't play with any of the other politicians.14:58
predatorfreaktreach: Yeah, I'd have been reported to the FBI for cheating them out of money :P14:59
predatorfreakHe was cheating too, so it was a fair game in my books.14:59
treachother wise you'd be owing *them* $1000, royal flush or no. :)14:59
ningotreach: possibly :D Everybody wants to live in sweden, since it's a welfare state. Clearly a work of satan!15:00
predatorfreaktreach: Well, I only play with a stacked deck ;)15:00
jjpktilman: :>15:00
* predatorfreak comes from a long-line of deck stackers.15:00
jaegerback in a few, killing X to hook up my new monitor15:00
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ningohttp://mathworld.wolfram.com/BeastNumber.html15:05
predatorfreakon a side note, the nanny in  the movie looked faintly like Michael Jackson at times.15:07
treach(The Louvre officially states it as 673 pieces, and subsequent independent counts have suggested there are 698.)15:07
treachgreat...15:07
treachnobody knows how many glass panes the building has... how the hell did they manage to build the damned thing..?15:07
predatorfreaktreach: Divine Intervention? :\15:08
treachor something. I mean, somewhere there *has* to be an order on them..15:08
treachit's not like "Let's start build this thing, and we'll see how much glass we'll need!"..15:09
guaquayou sure about that? :)15:09
guaquait was built by the french after all ;)15:09
treachwell, it *is* in France after all...15:09
predatorfreaktreach: THAT EXPLAINS IT.15:10
guaquaPERIOD.15:10
treachmaybe. :-)15:10
predatorfreakThe french know how to do anything, even the impossible.15:10
treachlike cooking snails and frogs. Q.E.D15:11
predatorfreaktreach: Yep.15:11
tilmanjjpk: at the illdisposed show, he let a girl from the crowd "sing" one stanza of a song, fucking funny15:11
tilmanshe did a good job though15:11
predatorfreakand somehow those people get laid by being nutjobs.15:11
tilmani think he was drunk though, he talked in danish to us several times o_O15:11
treachtilman: well, anyone can do that, right?15:12
treachall you have to do is be drunk enough. :D15:12
aonyeah15:12
aonand after that you start talking norwegian15:12
jjpkThere is a saying in Finland, "the harder your work is, the harder your play should be". :D15:12
predatorfreakaon: and I generally go from norwegian to Old Norse West.15:13
tilmantreach: den kortere den du tror! penge postkasse! ;)15:13
aon:D15:13
guaquajjpk: suomeksi?15:13
treachuh? Makes almost as much sense as my german. :P15:13
aonjjpk: raskas työ, raskaat huvit or sth? :)15:14
tilmantreach: the first one is part of a toilet sign that tells men to "step up (furhter?) a bit, cause he's shorter than you think" ;)15:14
treach"Den ær kortere æn du tror" -> I don't think we should elaborate on this..15:14
ningohttp://www.wtlv.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=5872715:14
aon:D15:15
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tilmanif i wasn't too lazy to move i could look up all of it ;)15:15
treachok. sounds credible. :p15:16
jjpkaon: yep that's the one. You always have to take a few liberties when translating finnish sayings. :p15:16
treachfurther, btw.15:16
tilman\o/15:16
aonor like a friend of mine said, "Kun sähkömies rentoutuu, se ei ole lasten katseltavaa" :)15:16
jaegeryay for widescreen LCDs15:17
guaquathe harder one works, the harder one must relax15:17
guaquaor something in that fashion15:17
treachjaeger: I thought you were saving money. ;-)15:17
tilmanthat makes more sense than what jjpk said :PPP15:17
jaegertreach: I am, this is at work :)15:17
ningoguaqua: so, I'll hard relax my whole life and keep the work for later15:17
treachohh...15:17
guaquawidescreen, *drool*15:17
* treach turns green.15:18
jaegerI've been using one of my own LCDs from home here on my work box15:18
jjpkWord of the day. envy. :D15:18
jaegerso we finally ordered a replacement15:18
aon:)15:18
* ningo notes, that treach lives in a comic15:18
treachsome replacement, eh? ;)15:18
jaegerI won't complain15:18
jaegerDell 2007WFP15:18
treachningo: why not, the "real" world is such a dull place.15:18
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ningotreach: Indeed15:19
* ningo wants to battle with dragons 'n stuff15:19
jaegerI should hook a sparc LX to this bad boy15:20
jaegerjust to see the faces of the people who come in my office15:20
treachSolaris is so bloated you need a widescreen for it? :p15:21
treachhmm...15:21
aonvista will probably require something like 32:415:22
treachSolaris, Vista -> extremely bloated, both american companies..15:22
ningoWhen will there be CRUX with an opensolaris kernel?!15:22
treachAm I the only one who sees a trend?15:22
aonyes, imo the americans tend to be delightfully minimalistic in everything15:22
treachaon: presumeably you'll need an SUV to get all the discs needed for it. :P15:22
ningotreach: selling uneccessary stuff to people is a trend since 1900.15:23
aonlike software, food, cars, people, etc.15:23
guaquatreach: :D15:23
jaegertreach: my sparc LX has netbsd on it, I think, or openbd15:23
jaegeropenbsd, even15:23
jaegerhaven't run solaris since 715:23
aon7pm?15:23
aon;D15:23
treachok, I'm just kidding anyway. :)15:23
treachaon: no since he was 7. :)15:24
jaegerI've *heard* solaris is pretty nice these days... I'm not going to test that, though :)15:24
aonhehe15:24
treachI tried that "belenix" thing, it was actually pretty nice.15:24
treachalas I can't test solaris since it doesn't like my sata controller.15:25
ningosolaris on x86 is teh sucks. seriously15:25
treachnot as bad as it used.15:25
guaquait installs everything by default15:25
treachnot anymore iirc.15:26
guaquaor at least when i was trying it i couldn't get it working any other way15:26
ningotreach: yeah, it's getting better, especially since opensolaris has come to life15:26
treachindeed.15:26
treachbut otoh, I think we should thank rh et al for that.15:26
ningoI think, they just realised that you can't make money with operating systems15:27
ningoas long as you don't want to be apple or microsoft15:27
aoni think they want to, but failed15:28
treachno, and you can't keep selling total crap anymore, you have to shape up a bit if you want to stay in the game.15:28
ningoaon: exactly15:28
ningoaon: the time of money making operating systems is over15:28
treachdepends on how you see it.15:28
treachMS still manages.15:29
ningotreach: you can't make money with operating systems, because microsoft makes money with it ;)15:29
treachwell, "you" being used in a general sense in this case.15:29
aonwell, you can make money with oses15:29
aonbut support is a better way of ripping people off :)15:30
ningodo you really think, any commercial operating system could stand a chance against microsofts monopol?15:30
guaqua"it consultant"15:30
treachhehe, ask IBM. :p15:30
aonor apple15:30
treachningo: yes. depending on the purpose.15:30
aon"BUT OSX IS OPENSOARS0mg!1"15:30
ningotreach: consumer market15:30
treachwell, that's not what we said from the beginning, right?15:31
ningotreach: specialist market is very unixy and thus free15:31
aonyeah, you could also ask wind river :)15:31
treachnah.15:31
aonyou could ask them about that also :)15:32
treachthere are actually places where no unix goes as well.15:32
ningotreach: I'm not talking about niche products here15:32
aonbut in those cases neither does windows15:32
treachaon: exactly.15:32
aonniche products like embedded systems?15:32
aonyeah, _nobody_ has those15:32
treachbut the topic was "moneymaking oses" right?15:32
ningoaon: oh, bugger off. you don't make money with operating systems in the empedded sector15:33
ningonot a lot, at least15:33
aonwhat's a lot?15:33
treachthe companies in that business seems to manage to stay alive though.15:33
ningoaon: three yachts and a big house15:34
aoni'm probably sort of an outsider in this millionaire's gathering known as #crux15:34
ningoand guess what, many common embedded operating systems are free as well15:34
aonname one that isn't linux15:35
treachsymbian? qnx?15:35
aontreach: which line is that an answer to? :)15:36
treachname one that isn't linux.15:36
aonand those are free?15:36
treachO RLY?15:36
aonsymbian is open-source?15:36
treachno, I never said they are open source or free, in fact that was my point...15:37
aonok :)15:37
aoni was trying to find that out :)15:37
ningoaon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Embedded_operating_systems15:37
treachthere is also some obscure ultra higly classed os that I really dont think is cheap, but I can't remember the name of it..15:38
ningoaon: inferno for example is quite free15:38
aonok15:38
aonand where is it used?15:38
ningoaon: embedded systems15:38
treachwhere NOBODY is trusted.15:38
aonningo: name one such system15:38
ningoaon: the headline "embedded operating systems" is there for a reason15:38
aonyes15:39
aonbut "operating system" != "0mg everyone is using it!1"15:39
ningoaon: #  Brightstar Engineering ip-Engine1 MPC823+FPGA15:39
ningo# Intrinsyc CerfCube-1110 SA111015:39
ningo# Intrinsyc CerfBoard-250 PXA25015:39
ningo# Intrinsyc CerfCube-405EP IBM405EP15:39
ningo# Embedded Planet (ex RPCG) RPXLite MPC82315:39
ningo# Motorola FADS8xx MPC823/85015:39
ningo# Compaq/HP iPAQ365x SA111015:39
ningo# Wincomm WPC660 x8615:39
aonk.15:39
aonnow get a similar list for vxworks or qnx or symbian and paste it here without getting dropped off the net.15:40
aongee, i wonder if wind river gets just a few cents and a good mind from boeing and NASA in exchange for their sw15:41
ningoaon: I stated 'many [not all!] embedded operatings systems are free'15:41
ningoaon: what does this have to do with the amount of companies using it?15:41
aonyes, but that still doesn't mean that the non-free ones don't make the companies developing them wealthy enough15:41
aoniirc that was the original argument15:41
ningoaon: if they're developing an operating system, the operating system is making them wealthy, else they wouldn't developt an operating system15:42
aon!15:42
aonand i thought the embedded market was just about hardware?15:43
aonthis is so confu-u-u-u-sing.15:43
treachare you kidding?15:43
aon;)15:43
treachah. thought so. :P15:43
treachnow, if I only could find the name of that ultra secure system...15:44
ningoit is, I don't think the most money in the embedded market is made by QNX & co, but rather the hardware manufacturs an the composers15:44
treachbut that isn't the point.15:44
ningotreach: that is exactly my point. I don't know your point though15:45
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treachthe point is as aon said before..15:45
ningoyes?15:45
ningoyou're confused?15:45
treachif the companies didn't make enough money on the systems, they wouldn't develop them..15:45
ningothat's what I said15:45
treachyes, I see that now, sorry. but then, what are you arguing about...?15:46
aonyes, but before that you said that not much money is made out of embedded oses15:46
ningoBut I also said, that the most money is made in the hardware sector, not in the operating system sector (regarding embedded systems)15:46
ningoaon: compared to the hardware market15:47
aonno, what you originally said is that the commercial rtoses aren't worthy because there are several free alternatives15:47
ningoaon: no, I never said that15:47
ningoaon: quote me15:47
aon23:31 < ningo> treach: specialist market is very unixy and thus free15:47
aon23:33 < ningo> aon: oh, bugger off. you don't make money with operating systems15:47
aon               in the empedded sector15:47
aoni don't see "more than from hardware" anywhere here15:48
ningoaon: compared to the hardware sector, that is15:48
ningoaon: yeah, I failed to mention that.15:48
aon:)15:49
ningoI thought it was clear, that I was comparing the os-sector with the other sectors as a whole15:49
aonyes, this is the cause for most irc arguments, others aren't grabbing information from the head of the one originally placing the argument15:50
ningooh, come on aon, we all know how it is :) ->15:52
ningohttp://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Retard_Win.jpg15:52
aon...yeah :)15:52
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sepenwhere is hosted now that link http://jw.tks6.net/files/crux/cruxmap.html16:09
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sepensorry, the link is up16:11
aoneh16:12
aon"CLC maintainers are marked with an asterisk"16:13
aon...so why do i have one? :)16:13
cptnI probably just copied Jukka's entry16:13
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treachaon: vektori seems like MIA, so maybe you got a wartime promotion. :p16:15
aon:>16:15
cptnaon: or maybe you made you an undercover user :-)16:15
cptnand masked you as maintainer16:16
aon:)16:16
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Drijenhello16:38
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sepenIm using crux but I never had use FreeBSD, now Im using FreeBSD 5.3 for a day and now I understand the crux advantages, crux is p0wa!! crux r00lz!! I love this distro, thanks per and crux-team!!17:02
sepengreat pkg utils!17:03
sepenxD17:03
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sepenalso prt-get and ...17:03
treachwhy do you think a whole bunch of people have tried to port prt-get &co to bsd..? =)17:04
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sepenxDD17:09
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j^2it's a bad sign your teacher skips your first class17:49
treach"uh-oh, that damned kid jonathan is there..."17:50
j^2hahah thanks treach17:50
treach"eject eject eject"17:50
treachyou are welcome. ;)17:50
treachas long as your lab equipment works, teachers are mostly optional in my experience. :-/17:51
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nipuLthat would of cource depend on the class18:02
treachwell. Provided that your course is depending on labs that is. :)18:03
nipuLi couldnt imagine 'winging it' in a surgery lab18:08
treachbah, it's all about trial and error. ;-)18:10
nipuLyou got the 'trial' part right ;P18:10
treach:D18:10
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kensaiwould I have any benefit in using dbus in CRUX? I have a KDE 3.5.3 system and maybe it all is compiled without support for dbus or am I wrong?20:47
prologicif you install dbus before kde it might pick it up20:48
kensaihmm so is of no use now then20:48
prologicall I know is that dbus is supose to be some new event system for desktops20:48
prologicI don't know much else since I use windowmaker :)20:48
prologicand it doesn't use dbus afaik20:48
kensaiI see20:49
prologicextract the kde source and see if it has anything to do with dbus :)20:49
prologichmm btw20:49
prologicis kde-light available anywhere yet ?20:49
prologicI heard that the devs of kde were develping a much lighter version of kde20:50
kensaiwell I know how to handle most of the hardware so I think I don't need it maybe20:50
kensaiprologic: it is much more of a fork than a kde project20:50
prologicthought so20:50
prologichave they released a version yet ?20:50
prologicI wanna keey an eye on that20:50
prologicnext to that the best lightweight alternative is xfce420:51
kensaiyeah and xfce 4.4 is a big step foward20:51
prologicoh damn20:52
prologicit's not available in our repos20:52
prologicwhere's that lazy maintainer :P20:52
kensaihehe it hasn't been released yet they are at beta stage20:53
prologicoh k20:53
kensaiprologic: wanna keep an eye on kde light? here: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=425&slide=1&title=kde+light+screenshots20:53
prologicwhat new features do you know of ?20:53
prologichmm ta20:53
kensaithat sure looks better than kde20:54
kensaiitself20:54
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kensaihmm there is one distro that is using kde light21:03
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thrice`xfce 4.4 beta is available in our repos21:35
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prologicit is ?22:05
prologicwhere ? :)22:05
prologicobviously not in opt/contrib :)22:06
maroprologic: jue has an external repo for it22:08
marohe posted it on the ml just after the beta was released, so it's a while ago22:09
prologicahh k22:09
prologicoh well I can wait (I think) :)22:09
marohttp://jue.li/crux/xfce4-beta22:09
prologicstill got 5 external machines to upgrade to 2.2 :/22:09
maroI have a couple to upgrade to debian :P22:10
prologicwtf ?22:10
prologicI just re-installed my router a month back to CRUX 2.222:10
prologicDebian shat itself :)22:10
marohowcome?22:11
maroneed more sleep, nighty22:12
prologicnight mate22:12
prologicihmo, CRUX kicks the ass outta Debian22:12
prologicbah it's QA :)22:12
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