IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2006-06-27

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rehabdollis it just me, or are sourceforges cvs-servers down at the moment?03:24
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Hanthey suck03:42
richi_autrehabdoll: i can access the cvs03:45
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RyoShey hey =)06:42
RyoSneed some help... just some :) the nforce2 driver readme says for the sound modul it needs oss support.. i added oss to the kernel config but it still doesnt build.. what do i need to add for "oss support"..?06:43
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jdolanRyoS, you added oss or oss emulation in alsa?07:21
RyoSi added oss07:22
RyoSi guess its alsas oss emulation?07:22
jdolanand is alsa still being built as well?  i dont think oss and alsa can coexist very well.07:22
RyoSnah didnt build alsa07:22
jdolanhm.  to be honest, if that nforce driver really does require oss (my god, what are they thinking..), i'd pick up a cheap sound card and forget about the onboard.07:23
RyoShehe ^^07:23
RyoSwell yea.. dunno...07:23
RyoSi didnt succeed in using the alsa driver builtin..07:24
RyoSi will try to install alsa outside the kernel..07:24
jdolanthat usually has worse results than building the version that's shipped with the kernel.07:26
jdolanthe alsa developers will tell you themselves not to bother.07:26
jdolani'd buy an sb live! value for $20 or something :-/07:27
RyoSi first need the new power supply..07:27
jdolanbut i find it difficult to believe, or at least very sad, that the nforce chipset only works with oss.  that really doesn't even make sense to me..07:27
RyoSi am a poor student.. cant afford much components :D07:27
jdolani hear ya :)07:27
* jdolan hugs his ancient laptop07:27
RyoSdunno what they think.. but nvidia usually ships great linux/unix drivers07:28
jdolanbinary, but yea, typically they work well.07:28
jdolanshower(); work();07:28
jdolangood luck!07:28
RyoSthanks07:30
RyoScya :)07:30
romsteri really think nvidia should release the sourcecode, as they can't make money on the software driver can they, and ya gotta have the hardware to use the driver :)07:31
RyoSthats right...07:35
RyoSmh i try out alsa from the kernel once more..07:38
RyoScan someone maybe tell me what alsa options i should enable?07:38
romsteralso would give the opensource the optinunity to improve on the drivers and maybe nvidia will realise they need to improve some part of there chipset07:38
romsterin the kernel?07:38
RyoSyes07:38
romsteralsa is old i got oss-mixer etc on in mine07:39
RyoSalsa is old?07:39
sepensomeone could take a look that? http://mikeux.dyndns.org/scripts/pkgmkdo07:39
romstersays in the kernal as depearcated07:39
RyoSoss says that :P07:39
RyoSalsa is the supported one ^^07:39
romsterwoot i better take another look07:40
sepenhttp://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/pkgmkdo/07:40
sepenxD07:40
sepenromster, what mixer app are you using?07:41
romsterah i'em using alsa :)07:42
RyoShahaha :P07:42
RyoStell me your options then please :)07:42
sepenalsamixer? amixer?07:42
romsteri got mysefl muddled up heh07:42
romsteralsamixer07:42
romsterbut i'm looking for a gui one07:42
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sepenhttp://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/wmix/07:42
romsteri cant stand ncurses07:42
sepenDockapp mixer for OSS or ALSA07:43
romsterfor a desktop pc07:43
RyoSromster!! :D07:43
RyoStell me your nice kernel config please :P07:43
sepenO.o07:43
romsteryeah i could prolly dcc u mine07:43
RyoSnah07:43
RyoS:P07:43
RyoSjust tell which alsa options i need to enable and so on ^^07:43
RyoSi failed configuring alsa before.. :/07:43
romsterhmm k07:43
romsteri got my kernel menu open07:44
RyoSthanks =)07:44
RyoSi have the driver, just need the options07:44
romsteri'm on 2.6.1707:44
RyoSbtw, driver should be modular or not?07:44
RyoSi am too, 2.6.17.107:44
romsteri'm using modules07:44
sepenRyoS, after compile kernel you need alsa-libs and alsa-utils07:44
romsterheh07:44
RyoSalright07:44
RyoSsequencer support?07:45
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romsteralsa, sequencyer support,  oss mixer api07:45
romsteross pcm07:45
RyoSy or m?07:46
RyoSall m?07:46
romsteryes07:46
sepenM-all for me07:46
romsterM07:46
romsterinclude plugin system, oss sequencyer api07:46
romstersupport old alsa api, verbose procfs07:47
romsterthen go into the drivers at the bottom and add ya sound card driver too07:47
RyoSalright07:47
RyoSthats it?07:48
romsteri'm no expert at this but i managed to get sound working, yes thats it07:48
RyoSthanks :)07:48
romsteras long as u set a driver in pci or usb etc?07:48
RyoSyea did :)07:48
romsternot sure where ac97 driver is but its on the board section if your using that07:49
romsteri have ac97 and a sb live 256 :)07:49
RyoSwhich modules do i have to load in the end?07:49
romsterthen compile it and make sure you modprobe the modules in /etc/rc.modules07:49
RyoSintel8x0 and what else?07:49
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romstersnd-mixer-oss07:50
RyoSmh alright07:51
romsterand snd itself if you also had that as a module07:52
RyoSsound is builtin07:52
romsteri just threw all the *.ko's into my rc.modules to later sort it out as some get loaded by others07:52
romsterthen u don't need snd then07:53
RyoSmh07:53
predatorfreakRyoS: Most modern kernels will load the required deps so long as automatic module loading is enabled.07:53
RyoSalright..07:53
romstersnd-ac97-bus for ac97 if you also have onboard sound07:53
predatorfreakRyoS: By most, I mean, basically all kernels around.07:53
ssimonhi ciruz07:54
romsterpredatorfreak, yeah that too, but i'm not sure which i should manually load and which i shouldn't07:54
predatorfreakUnless it got suddenly broke in one release.07:54
ciruzssimon: hi07:54
RyoShey ciruz =)07:54
predatorfreakromster: snd-intel8x007:54
romsteras some modules and programs load others up07:54
predatorfreak/sbin/modprobe snd-emu10k107:54
predatorfreak/sbin/modprobe snd-emu10k1-synth07:54
RyoSso loading snd-intel8x0 will do the job?07:54
romsterno i use snd-emu10k107:54
predatorfreakThose are what I load.07:54
romsterand synth07:54
predatorfreakEverything else get's loaded by the kernel.07:55
predatorfreakRyoS: Yep.07:55
romsteris that all no snd stuff?07:55
predatorfreakromster: That's all.07:55
romsteri got 15 snd modules listed heh07:55
predatorfreakThe other stuff get's loaded by the kernel and I built in snd-*-oss07:55
ciruzRyoS: i guess your nforce 2 isn't using intel 8x007:55
romsterhmm07:56
predatorfreakSo you might need to load the snd-*-oss modules.07:56
romsteri got everything as modules so i still have to include snd-*-oss07:56
ciruzRyoS: anyway, still having problems with getting the nforce 2 working?07:56
predatorfreakromster: Yes.07:56
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romsterso that removes some of them on my list as they'll get loaded by the others, i assume07:56
romsteri wasn't sure so i went the belt and suspenders approch :)07:57
predatorfreaksnd and all the deps of emu10k1/emu10k1-synth will be loaded automatically, but not snd-*-oss.07:57
predatorfreakromster: I've been screwing with the kernel quite a bit, so I've stopped and fucked around with modules :)07:57
romsterkool thats good to know07:57
romsterheh07:58
romstersee that i'm not using sound 24/7 i think moduels is betetr as it can unload when not needed07:58
RyoSwaht do i need else? alsa-lib and alsa-?07:58
ciruzRyoS: oh, sry, it was right that snd-intel-8x0 works with NForce207:58
predatorfreakI use sound way too much.07:58
ciruzonly the new ones need another driver07:58
predatorfreakRyoS: alsa-lib, alsa-oss, alsa-utils.07:58
ciruzRyoS: so just compile snd-intel8x0 into your kernel07:59
RyoSaaaaaaaalright =D07:59
RyoSi did already ;)07:59
RyoSbuilding that alsa stuff now...07:59
predatorfreakciruz: or just modprobe snd-intel8x0 :)07:59
RyoSi am getting MAAAAAAAAD if its not working now....07:59
ciruzpredatorfreak: i prefer compiling in the stuff07:59
romsterheh07:59
predatorfreakI keep the core crap and emulation built in.07:59
predatorfreakThen I make the cards themselves modules.07:59
ciruzi only built modules for testing purposes08:00
RyoSalright, if you all didnt lie or i didnt made shit :D it will work in some seconds... ;>08:00
romsterok i'm down to 5 modules for soudn now plus the 2 fro the ac97 driver08:00
predatorfreakciruz: Well I'm a crazy bastard.08:00
ciruzor if i want to change the order. for example for the soundcard. the first is compiled in, the second a module08:00
predatorfreakromster: ac97 is loaded by emu10k1.08:01
RyoSreboooot08:01
romsterhrmm so thats not needed either, hell where do ya find the docs on whats loaded or not?08:01
predatorfreakromster: modprobe snd-emu10k1 on a fresh boot? :)08:01
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romsterheh and bypass the rc.modules...08:02
jaegerwow, still problems with sound?08:02
romsternar my sound works :)08:02
romsterRyoS, isn't yet08:02
RyoSmhmm....08:02
predatorfreakWell considering I'm listening to Scorpions.08:02
RyoSisnt =(08:02
predatorfreakI have no problems with sound ;)08:02
romsteri'm jsut removing kernel modulesthat get auto loaded by other modules in my rc.modules08:03
romsteras i did have about 15 listed for sound08:03
romsterpredatorfreak, what player do you use?08:03
predatorfreakroberth: 4 modules should be fine, 2 for the card and two for oss emulation.08:03
predatorfreakMPD.08:03
romsterusing alsaplayer atm but i'm not impressed with it08:03
romstermeh not that...08:03
predatorfreakmpd + mpc + pygmy.08:03
predatorfreakI'm quite taken by MPD.08:04
romsteri want one simaler to funcitionally to winamp08:04
romsterpygmy hrmm08:04
predatorfreakBMP? Audacious?08:04
predatorfreakPygmy is just an mpd front end.08:04
predatorfreakas is mpc.08:04
romsteras i use alot of dsp stuff etc08:04
romsterah08:04
predatorfreakLike I said, BMP, audacious?08:04
romstermpd has advanced plugin system?08:04
romsteri'll have a look at them08:05
pitilloand what about xmms?08:05
predatorfreakpitillo: It's ancient and dead! :P08:05
romstertoo old08:05
predatorfreakromster: Not really, but it auto-equalizes shit.08:05
predatorfreakand supports replaygain.08:06
predatorfreakSo stuff sounds pretty crisp to me.08:06
pitilloneed to read about another... but xmms is quite simple to play songs08:06
* predatorfreak would run MPD on Winders when gaming if he could.08:08
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romsterxine-lib wont compile and i haven't setup my email client in linux yet either...08:42
pitilloromster, I see mistmach footprint in xine-lib08:43
pitillojaeger, http://lokalix.dyndns.org/tmp/ there is a footprint mistmach in flac too08:49
jaegerI do not use or maintain flac08:50
romstervideo_out_xxmc.c:46: error: syntax error before '*' token08:50
jaegerthat said, the maintainer probably doesn't have xmms installed08:50
jaegerthat's a safe mismatch to ignore08:51
romsteri can't even get to compile it :/08:51
romstermake[4]: *** [video_out_xxmc.lo] Error 108:52
romstermake[4]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/opt/xine-lib/work/src/xine-lib-1.1.1/src/video_out'08:52
pitillojaeger, thanks for the two tips08:52
romsterthats the last thing it gets too b4 it dies on me :(08:52
jaegerbrb, restarting x08:53
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romsterdamn it all these ports that don't compile stops me from installing some programs.08:55
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pitilloromster, do you have all deps?08:56
romsteryes for that program waht it sates on the depends line08:57
romsterwhat it states*08:57
romsterhrmm only thing i could think of is it hates xorg?09:00
pitilloromster, umm compiling with Xorg 6.9  ...09:09
pitillobut using depinst09:09
romsteruse i used depinst09:11
romsterxorg 7.109:11
romsters/use/yes09:12
romsterfuck i can't type, meh gonna get dinner cooking09:12
pitilloxD09:13
pitillocompiled without problems09:24
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RyoSi go mad with my sound problem :D09:25
pitilloxD09:28
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pitillodo you know any way to see the amount of memory used by proces (insted of ps aux and top, I have a lot of memory used and dont know any way to see who is using it)09:43
mike_ka good old thing was lavaps09:44
mike_kbut its tk frontend failed to compile on modern crux09:44
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pitillomike_k, ok, thanks for the tip... I ?ll try to read and search another way to see it09:45
mike_kit was a remark, not a tip )09:46
pitillomy english level is poor, for me all are tips xD. Thanks for the remark. I forgot the modules loaded.... :)09:47
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romsterhtop :)09:49
* mike_k is glad he is not the worst unnative speaker here09:49
pitilloxD09:50
mike_kpitillo: at least you know such things as "xD", which sounds to me as [iksdee]09:52
pitillomike_k, for me sounds like a laught ... xD If disturb I?ll not use again, sorry.09:56
mike_kno09:57
mike_kjust unfamilar with this type of smileys09:58
pitilloromster, a better and visual way to see the top. Nice to know that :)09:58
pitilloummm it?s quite strange, htop shows that 235/512M are used, but free -o shows only 20M free...10:03
mike_kLinux  : used | shared | buffers | free10:04
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mike_kif htop used=used+shared+buff, than it is ok10:05
mike_kpitillo: same results here. don't worry10:06
pitillomike_k, thanks10:08
mike_knp10:08
mike_ka am still glad to see ukraine in 1/4 xD10:09
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pitillomike_k, xD are you from ukraine?10:14
pitillofrom Yalta... xD10:15
pitillotonight is spain time :) I hope we can see nice football10:17
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romsterpitillo, yep i like htop :)10:35
romsterpitillo, the extra used is buffers and cache10:36
romsterF1 gives you a help screen and tells ya what it all means.10:36
pitilloromster, yes mike_k explain it...10:36
romster:)10:36
romsterand if its red on the cpu bar its the kernel not programs10:37
pitillolittle but usefull help :)10:39
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romsternot alot in the help menu but is a bit10:40
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delinquenthello guys.11:28
delinquenti've been building and configuring crux to the way i like it to run on my notebook. how do i go about making a permanent copy of it on a CD?11:28
delinquentany hints would be appreciated. thx11:29
deus_exdelinquent: Disk image, maybe?11:34
delinquenti was hoping that i could automate the whole installation the next time i install crux.11:35
deus_exhttp://www.partimage.org/Main_Page11:36
delinquentthanks, i'll look into it11:37
deus_exnp11:37
* deus_ex trying to understand why full duplex doesn't work11:37
deus_exHm.'igain' in oss is 'capture'.Check.11:41
deus_exTv tuner is hooked to line in on the sound card, and that would be...'aux'?11:42
deus_exSound ok when playing, no sound when recording.wtf...11:43
deus_exSorry, I'm just thinking outloud.11:44
romsterdeus_ex, mixer or permissions11:46
deus_exMy guess is mixer, but all looks ok.11:48
deus_exWhen I start xdtv, I can record sound with 'record'.11:52
deus_exBut, xdtv records only video, no sound.11:52
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deus_exHm.There is an audio track(checked with avidemux), but with silence in it.11:57
deus_exIt blocks /dev/dsp while recording, but from where does it record?11:58
deus_exIn mixer, line is marked as capture device, capture is on, record uses 'line' just fine.11:59
deus_exWtf am I missing?12:00
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deus_exMixer for tv card: tuner set as capture device, capture on.12:02
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* romster shrugs12:03
deus_exIt's something obvious, I just know it, but it's driving me nuts now.12:06
deus_exI'll figure it out.12:07
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jjpkdeus_ex: any luck with sound recording?12:25
deus_exNo, not yet.12:25
deus_exI'm stuck for the moment.12:25
jjpk:/12:25
deus_exNo big deal, really, just annoying :)12:26
deus_exIt will keep me occupied until rapidshare lets me d/l some more..ehm..educational material ;)12:34
surrounderhmm when I insert my mp3player it doesnt make a device in /dev12:34
surrounderany ideas? :s12:34
deus_exfree pr0n, anyone?12:34
deus_exsurrounder: Which mp3player?It should be recognized as usb hard disk, methinks.12:36
surrounderindeed12:36
surrounderis should be /dev/sda but it doesnt get created12:36
deus_exDmesg?12:37
deus_exWhat does kernel say?12:37
surrounderscsi2 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices12:37
surrounderusb-storage: device found at 412:37
surrounderusb-storage: waiting for device to settle before scanning12:37
surrounder  Vendor:           Model:                   Rev:12:37
surrounder  Type:   Direct-Access                      ANSI SCSI revision: 0012:37
surrounderusb-storage: device scan complete12:37
surroundergets detected12:37
deus_exBut no device created.12:38
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surrounderindeed12:38
surrounderdoesn't help to restart udevd either12:38
mike_ksurrounder: have you saw any player devices with this kernel?12:38
surrounderyeah12:38
surrounderused this config for quite some time12:38
mike_kso usb-storage is definitely included?12:39
mike_kblame me12:39
mike_kit is12:39
surrounder*sigh*12:39
surrounderthis is annoying12:39
mike_ksome exotic player maybe.12:40
surroundernope12:40
surrounderworked for a year12:40
surrounderah well maybe my kernel is fucked or something12:40
deus_exUdev rules, maybe.12:41
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surroundergetting fed up with these little annoyances12:41
deus_exAmen :)12:41
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surrounderwell, maybe time to convert my last linux machine to a bsd12:41
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bd2@seen danm12:45
clbbd2: danm was last seen in #crux 3 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 18 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <danm> ;-)12:45
mike_kbd2: he seems to be retired12:45
bd2yeah, I've just noticed that on crux.nu. I'm missed the moment when danm retired retired12:46
bd2anyone know why?12:47
predatorfreakbd2: Probably went to a PAM distro :P12:50
romsterhow do i find oversized files? i got 87% usage on this disk and i wanna see where all the space is going to :)12:51
bd2romster du -sm /* | sort -n12:51
bd2then go down to most used directories12:51
mike_kwhat a pitty, crux is loosing active developers...12:52
romsteri haven't even thought of where danm was either O_o12:52
romsterta bd212:52
bd2mike_k, crux is dead since 200012:53
romsternar12:53
deus_exbd2: Few reasons.Fulltime job, Crux doesn't fit him anymore, maintaining ~300 ports alone is a nightmare...12:53
romsterthats why there is more than 1 person doing ports :)12:53
bd2deus_ex, ack. but I'd argue about ~300 ports. do he really used all 300 ports?12:53
deus_exThat's based on his message to crux64 ml.12:53
prologic_anyone know of a webcam server that'll serve an mpg stream ?12:54
prologic_for windows12:54
prologic_seeing as neither skype nor gaim support webcam (viewing of)12:54
deus_ex"Keeping CRUX64 up-to-date was a nightmare because there were more than 31012:54
deus_ex  ports."12:54
mike_khope that will force crux to be more platform-independent12:54
deus_exAnd with upcoming ~100 of Xorg 7.x...12:55
deus_ex100 ports12:55
bd2deus_ex, can you give me a link to message, because I can't find anything in http://lists.crux.nu/mailman/listinfo/crux6412:55
deus_exmike_k: Afaict, cptn has some plans for it, but it's 3.x material, afaik12:55
deus_exbd2: It's from my mailbox, I was subscribed to it.12:56
bd2okay12:56
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I'll take the "CRUX doesn't fit him" to mean that he's pissed over the whole huge PAM debate.12:56
deus_exI can send you mbox, if you want.12:56
mike_kpredatorfreak: =)12:57
bd2cbou@mail.ru, sorry to trouble you12:57
deus_expredatorfreak: "Programs / Files that _I_ call12:57
deus_ex  essential software is considered as cruft by the majority of CRUX's users12:57
deus_ex  and developers. Unfortunately it is very time-consuming to retrofit it.12:57
predatorfreakdelinquent: Aka PAM.12:57
predatorfreakerr.12:57
predatorfreakdeus_ex*12:57
predatorfreakSome other things.12:58
predatorfreake.g. iproute2 and such.12:58
predatorfreakHaven't met a hammer to the face.12:58
deus_exThat's a quote from him.I think he just got tired.12:58
predatorfreakBut PAM + CRUX philsopohy == WTF?12:58
deus_exGood luck to him.12:58
mike_kwait a minute... is iproute2 considered a loat too?12:58
mike_k*bloat12:58
bd2+1 deus_ex12:58
deus_exbd2: No worries :)12:59
predatorfreakmike_k: i don't consider bloat.12:59
predatorfreakI don't consider it bloat*12:59
predatorfreakSorry.12:59
predatorfreakEating and drinking cider + typing.12:59
predatorfreakiproute2 looks good to me and has some serious advantages to ifconfig.12:59
mike_ksure it has13:00
predatorfreakI consider PAM to have usefullness in some settings, but most are far beyond the scope of CRUX.13:01
predatorfreakPlus, the CRUX philsopohy IS Keep It Simple, Stupid.13:02
mike_kpredatorfreak: let's continue on ml13:02
bd2haha13:03
predatorfreakmike_k: Bah, I'll just stop ranting :)13:03
deus_exbd2: Sent.Enjoy.13:03
bd2deus_ex, much thanks13:03
predatorfreakoh and.13:03
predatorfreakbd2: You russian! :P13:03
deus_expredatorfreak: Wasn't that discussed already?13:03
deus_exbd2: np13:03
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Yep.13:03
predatorfreakI never heard what the final verdict was.13:04
deus_expredatorfreak: Final verdict? cptn and clc crew  will decide, because it's non-trivial thing to include PAM in Crux.13:05
rehabdollnooooooo no PAM!13:05
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I'd fork CRUX if it goes PAM :P13:06
rehabdolland i'll help :)13:06
predatorfreakand call it Stalinux and splash it with Soviet Propaganda :P13:07
predatorfreakBoot it up, THE PENGUIN IS NOW THE HAMMER AND SICKLE.13:07
predatorfreakPurely for comedic relief though.13:07
aonthat's comedy? :)13:07
bd2predatorfreak, I'm13:07
predatorfreakaon: Well, I'd make it Vaginix, but I don't think a distro filled with porn will go over to well ;)13:08
deus_expredatorfreak: You'll have to check with cptn or core devs for update on that.13:08
deus_exPAM, taht is.13:08
aonheh13:09
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I haven't seen any decisive pro-or-against PAM actions yet.13:09
romsterrofl13:09
predatorfreakSo I'm going to wait it out.13:09
deus_expredatorfreak: I don't care either way.13:10
predatorfreakI'm happy without PAM and I'm quite religious when it comes to killing it ;)13:11
deus_exSo I've noticed :)13:11
bd2CRUX is for experienced users, right? Experienced users can easily use subversion for ports, and add/remove PAM support as needed without pia, and with ability to synchronise with main repo13:12
* predatorfreak sticks a Halibar in it.13:12
deus_exbd2: I don't think is that simple.13:12
bd2that is simple. I'm using it since CRUX using subversion for repos13:13
predatorfreakbd2: I think my "CRUX is a KISS distro" argument is quite sufficant.13:13
bd2plus, if there will guidelines about how to write svn-mergeable Pkgfiles, that will be even more piece of cake13:14
predatorfreakPAM basically contradicts KISS philosophy, so hence it shouldn't be in the base system of CRUX.13:14
deus_exbd2: Using svn for repos, or removing PAM?What is simple?Both?13:14
predatorfreakMaybe an optional, officially supported repo for the folks who absolutely must have PAM.13:14
predatorfreakThat I can live with.13:15
bd2deus_ex, using svn for adjusting Pkgfiles for your needs (removing PAM, for example).13:15
bd2ufo:~$ svn diff /usr/ports/core/ | wc -l13:15
bd254513:15
predatorfreak*cough*nutjob*cough*13:15
bd2ufo:~$ svn diff /usr/ports/opt | wc -l13:15
bd29113:15
predatorfreakbd2: I just overlay my wills above core/opt.13:16
deus_exI have no idea what it takes to integrate or remove PAM from system, so I can't comment on it.13:16
predatorfreakI rule all on my system, hence my ports override core/opt!13:16
bd2predatorfreak, why so? ports -u still working, I just have to do "svn st" to find conflicts (if any). There was no conflicts yet, fyi.13:16
predatorfreakbd2: I like having a pristine copy of the port if I fuck up massively.13:16
bd2deus_ex, afaik, it's just about removing/adding configure --flags and adding pam-linux package13:17
predatorfreakbd2: Ja, the biggest problems are shadow and openssh.13:17
deus_ex'Just'.Famous last words :)13:17
predatorfreakThose would need to be recompiled.13:17
bd2predatorfreak, svn is about to "revert pristine copy whenever you want"13:17
predatorfreakbd2: and more complex than I need to do what I do :P13:18
predatorfreakBut whatever.13:18
predatorfreakTo each his own.13:18
predatorfreakbd2: My biggest grep is why waste extra space for something that has few gains to the average user?13:19
predatorfreakI mean.13:19
predatorfreakHow many people will make extensive use of PAM?13:19
predatorfreakMaybe 1 out of 10.13:19
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predatorfreakTo the remaining 9, it's just an extra thing to send login data through and an extra potential security vulnerability.13:20
jjpkI also fail to see the need for PAM.13:21
predatorfreakThis is why I'd be fine with an external PAM repo that could overlay on top of core/opt, for the few applications that it might have a serious benefit.13:21
jjpkIt surely has its uses, but it just seems to damn complex and a pain. Just my 0,02 EUR on the topic. :p13:21
jaegermost people won't need it. some will13:21
predatorfreakjaeger: Hence external repo :P13:21
bd2predatorfreak, my point is: I'll not use PAM in any case. Will core developers decide it or they'll not. Because I use svn, I'm free to do whatever *I* want, without much arguing with core developers. ;-) And I'm suggesting you that - freedom.13:21
jjpk1 out of 10 as predatorfreak put it.13:21
jaegerI have no real preference, myself13:21
jaegerAs long as all my stuff works.13:22
predatorfreakjaeger: I prefer the least complex solution.13:22
bd2svn is great tool, and it able not only to resolve source code conflicts, but also "user" vs "developer" conflicts ;-)13:22
predatorfreakShadow works fine for my needs ;)13:22
jaegerfor the end user there is little difference13:22
jaegerfor the tweaker it's different13:22
predatorfreakjaeger: I know, but why introduce more complexity when it doesn't matter with or without PAM?13:23
predatorfreakIt'd be easier, as I said, to have an external repo for those who really have a need for PAM to do things.13:23
jaegerI don't really see what you're getting at13:23
jaegerI'm not advocating either way, I personally don't care whether it's external or internal13:23
jaegerI'm saying to most users the use of PAM is transparent13:24
bd2predatorfreak, furthermore! There may be just another subversion branch, called crux-pam (or crux-pamless).13:24
predatorfreakjaeger: I'm talking KISS, simplest possible implementation that still does as desired.13:24
predatorfreakPAM, for the average user, is surely not that.13:24
jaegerPAM, for the average user, is not seen or heard13:25
predatorfreakjaeger: It's still THERE.13:25
jaegerthe "average user" doesn't know the difference between PAM and shadow13:25
predatorfreakEating up disk space and CPU cycles.13:25
romsterno more branches!! its bad enougth having a diferent arch for each pc type now, can't there be a generic cd thats got all the major types on the one cd, as there is room left on a cd-r or even move to a dvd.13:25
jaegerdisk space and CPU cycles no average user will miss13:25
predatorfreakjaeger: I miss my CPU cycles and disk space.13:25
jaegerbesides, are there any real benchmarks out there to compare them?13:26
jaegerthen you are not an average user :)13:26
romsterand is APM more secure than Shadow13:26
romsterPAM*13:26
predatorfreakromster: Nope.13:26
predatorfreakIt's caused a vulnerability that shadow didn't.13:26
romsterthen whats the point of PAM then?13:26
predatorfreakOpenSSH problem, if I remember right.13:26
jaegerromster: the point is that it allows much more functionality than shadow13:27
predatorfreakromster: For professional, corperate environments, it could be used to do some tight control on sessions.13:27
jaegerIF you need it13:27
predatorfreakFor the average end user and most other applications.13:27
predatorfreakIt's useless.13:27
predatorfreakAn extra thing to do session and login handling.13:27
romsterah13:27
predatorfreakand most limiting thing that can be done in PAM can be done elsewhere.13:27
predatorfreak-thing +things13:28
romsterthen why not make it a option on the install cd to use PAM or Shadow?13:28
predatorfreakYou'd have to have two sets of packages for shadow/openssh for both setups.13:28
romsterand after all crux is ment to be kiss principal13:28
jaegerpreviously PAM wasn't offered or tested13:28
qidromster: you just answered your own question13:29
predatorfreakromster: Exactly my argument, PAM is extra complexity that serves no purpose in most settings.13:29
predatorfreakand for the ones where it has use.13:29
predatorfreakA simple httpup repo should suffice.13:29
predatorfreakBut this has already been debated enough.13:30
romsterqid, lol,  I did? rofl, i sometimes do that13:30
predatorfreakLet's just wait until this gets a final verdict.13:30
romsterpredatorfreak, i agree13:31
predatorfreakNow then, porn.13:34
predatorfreakI've ranted enough for today! :P13:34
romsterlolz13:38
predatorfreakromster: Hey, I'm preventing prostate cancer! :P13:42
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jjpkToo hot for irc! :D13:45
predatorfreakjjpk: Hahaha.13:46
jjpkHad no idea that tor imposes morals on its users.13:48
aon(:13:48
aon"freenode was 0wned recently, we must drop teh users for maximum security!1"13:49
predatorfreakjjpk: Hey, I don't use tor! :P13:49
jjpkromster does you see.13:49
predatorfreakOh.13:49
predatorfreakHax!13:49
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predatorfreakRomster: Wb.13:51
Romsterta so what did you say b4?13:53
Romsteri didn't get the last line you said13:53
predatorfreak<predatorfreak> romster: Hey, I'm preventing prostate cancer! :P13:54
Romsterah lol13:55
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Romsteri read about that, specasilly when ya growing up that a good u know what oftern will reduce prostate cancer risk :P13:56
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copworkerthats a myth every grandma tells their grandchildren :(14:01
predatorfreakhttp://bin.4chan.org/g/src/1151431908322.gif14:02
predatorfreakWe're all programming COMMUNISM!14:02
jjpkA friendly reminder from your friends at M$. :D :D14:03
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Romstercopworker, theres proof on that that14:07
copworkerYeah, I believe it, too :)14:07
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Romsterpredatorfreak, heh seen that amillion times14:08
copworkerbut not with the subtle microsoft note14:08
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Romster:P actually yes14:13
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deus_exhttp://movabletripe.com/wp-content/images/windowslive.png15:12
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pitilloI have a doubt.... Is a pentium II 300 i686? in cpuinfo I can see the cpu_family 6 but I thought it was a i586, and P-III is i68615:25
jjpkPentium Pro and above is i686 iirc.15:25
pitillojjpk, I read at intel website a bit, and I understand that mmx, pro and PII were i586... but I see that Im in wrong15:26
jaegermmx is 586, pro and p2 are 68615:26
jaegerall are 586-compatible15:27
pitillothanks :) I installed 2.2 for i586... need to change.15:27
jjpkdeus_ex: haha, nice pic. :D15:29
RyoSlol.. got sound working15:37
RyoSi added the alsa thingys...15:37
RyoSworks15:37
RyoSwith oss output plugins...15:38
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RyoSso only one program can access the snd card15:38
RyoSwhy the hell is this?15:38
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jaegerwhat kind of card?15:39
RyoSnforce2 onboard chip15:44
jaegerintel8x0, no hardware mixing15:45
jaegerI have one of those and I hate it15:45
RyoSoO15:46
RyoSwell15:46
RyoSdid you manage to get the nvidia driver working?15:46
jaegerhaven't tried it, since it's oss-only15:46
RyoSit says it need oss support in the kernel, but i dont mange to get this to run..15:46
RyoSwell15:46
RyoSits better than you think :)15:46
RyoSit manages to give aaaall apps you want to get sound axx :)15:47
jaegeryou sure? I got the impression from your comments you didn't have it working15:47
RyoSwell15:47
RyoSi had it before :P15:48
RyoSbut not with my selfmade kernel config..15:48
RyoSwell15:50
RyoSit says it needs oss support.. i added it to the kernel config, removed all alsa stuff, didnt work15:50
RyoSi have no clue why the hell it doesnt to the magic :/15:50
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pitillowell, installed for i686. Tomorrow I'll make the kernel compilation :)16:00
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jjpkjaeger: looks like there has been a libpng update to 1.2.12.17:27
jaegeralright17:30
jjpkLooked it up because 1.2.11 did not download from the source, it had been removed it seems.17:31
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hackedheadhmm.... does binutils fail to build for anyone else?18:07
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predatorfreakhttp://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/06/23/1728205&tid=15018:08
predatorfreakAm I the only one thinking "OHSHI." when reading that?18:08
jjpkwth. :o18:11
jjpkcrux is not a direct derivative, however that is somewhat worrying.18:12
jjpkTime to adopt a BSD style license. *ducks*18:13
predatorfreakjjpk: Yay! :P18:13
predatorfreakI release everything I create under a 3-claus BSD license.18:14
predatorfreakSince it's basically public domain + Attribute my ass.18:14
GSFRyoS: have you tried to only include ALSA support in the kernel (with OSS mixer and PCM API) and then modprobe'ing snd-pcm-oss18:25
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RyoSnope18:47
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thrice`I just got xgl going on ubuntu...this is really slick :)19:18
Romsterwahts xgl?19:18
jaegerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xgl19:23
jaegerhttp://crux.nu/Main/Xgl19:23
thrice`I was too scared to try on a real distro :)19:23
jaegerI need to update the doc since the nvidia and gl-select x11r7 ports moved, but eh19:24
thrice`plus, ati proprietary won't compile on xorg 7.119:25
thrice`jaeger, what did you use to record your flash movies?19:25
jaegervnc2swf19:26
thrice`aah, ok19:27
thrice`ati just released new drivers...I was very upset when they still wouldn't compile on xorg 7.119:28
rehabdollarent ati just horrible on drivers?19:29
rehabdolli remember a friend with an ati radeon 9800 and windows19:29
rehabdolloh the horrors19:29
predatorfreakrehabdoll: Get him a Radeon 9200 :P19:30
predatorfreakIt's old sure.19:30
predatorfreakBut it supports full hardware acceleration on Linux and EXA in Xorg.19:30
predatorfreakOn top of that, the specs are open to the public.19:30
thrice`well, the open source dont' work very well with my card, and the proprietary wont' compile19:30
predatorfreakSo we have decent drivers.19:30
rehabdollwow.. perhaps i'll get one of those19:30
predatorfreak-Linux +Any OS that supports DRI19:31
predatorfreakrehabdoll: I have one laying around.19:31
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Romsterneat to try out later :)19:50
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jdolannew 21" LCD = boner21:55
jdolanhttp://jdolan.dyndns.org/jaydolan/tmp/dt.jpg21:55
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