IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2006-08-16

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rxi_prologic: we have had problems with netgear wireless cards in the past .. couldnt find a soltuion02:56
guaquaprologic: try out different pci slots02:57
guaquai used to have a problem with my old graphics card and d-link dwl-g520. solved it by switching slots and a new graphics card. it produced lines on the monitor and the sound was cracking and popping when there was a lot of i/o going on.02:59
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pitillobrbrbr breaking my system playing with newhidups. Nice fight :D04:39
pitilloI hope I can setup it nice. Quite difficult by now04:40
prologicthanks rxi_04:44
pitillois there a way to restart hotplug? Read that was removed from services. (sorry if I?m missing some knowledge about)04:53
prologicyou mean coldplug ?04:59
prologicthat doesn't exist anymore afaik05:00
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pitilloprologic, I dont know If I?m confused about but I?m trying to restart hotplug to see if newhidups see my ups. I don?t wamt to use coldplug05:07
cptndefine "see"05:10
cptnin /sys, /dev?05:10
cptnalso, if you want to receive a hotplug event, you have to unplug and re-plug the ups05:11
cptnhotplug was only there to act on the event, not to generate one05:12
cptn(coldplug generated hotplug events)05:12
pitillocptn, running newhidups -a name didn?t find the ups shown with lsusb and configured with ups.conf05:12
cptnso it's listed in /proc/bus/usb/devices?05:13
pitilloummm I think so,I?ll chech it05:13
pitillocptn, it?s showed in devices... (Think that lsusb uses that to get information)05:20
pitillo(not sure about that)05:20
cptnokay, could be05:21
cptnlsusb probably uses /sys05:21
cptnso does this device have a kernel driver?05:22
pitillocptn, The only kernel driver used is usbhid.05:24
cptnah, okay05:24
cptnwell, google suggests to run newhidups with high debug levels05:25
cptnalthough I'd expect you already did that, right?05:25
pitillocptn, sure, with -DDD05:25
cptnand what's the result of that?05:28
pitilloummm a large output....05:29
cptnyes, pastebin is your friend05:29
cptnis it a powercom device?05:30
pitilloa few interesting lines05:30
pitilloDon?t know what is a powercom device, It?s a ups MGE05:30
cptnit's jus another company, like MGE05:31
pitillowell, I?ll put the output at my server instead of pastebin05:31
pitillowhen match the device, there are some lines trerying and finally a error (the send control message)05:37
pitilloseems to be a permisions problem, but are ok in /proc/bus/....05:50
cptndo you run it as root?06:01
cptnand it doesn't internally change to a different user, does it?06:09
pitillowell, permisions are for root:nut, 660. How can I check if doesn?t change to another user?06:11
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cptncan you run 'strace <command> &> mge.strace' and put the file online?06:17
pitillocptn, sure06:20
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cptnetgid32(502)                           = 006:26
cptnsetuid32(502) setgid32(502)                           = 006:26
cptnso it set's the uid to 50206:26
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pitillowell seems to be ok then06:27
pitillonut:x:502:502:nut:/: and group nut::502:nut06:27
cptndoes the user have access?06:32
cptnwell, obviously not06:33
cptnopen("/dev/bus/usb/005/001", O_RDWR)    = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)06:33
cptnso /dev/bus/usb/* has the wrong permissions on your system06:33
cptndoes it work when you run 'newhidups -u root'06:34
pitillowell, I?ll check it06:35
pitilloBus 004 Device 002: ID 0463:ffff MGE UPS Systems UPS permisions -rw-rw---- 1 root nut 52 Aug 16 11:32 /proc/bus/usb/004/00206:36
pitillodon?t know why is trying to open 005/00106:36
cptnit's trying them all06:37
pitilloDetected a UPS: MGE/ELLIPSE06:37
pitilloUsing subdriver: MGE HID 0.806:37
pitillomy error was wathing the device permisions... looking another device06:38
pitilloman you are a machine...06:39
tilmanie, a cyborg?06:41
pitillothen... when the cord is plugged, hotplug need to set the permisions automatically... and it sets in another device. Need to read about to see what I?m missing06:41
cptnpitillo: recent udev releases don't call hotplug anymore06:42
pitillotilman, ummm bigge06:42
cptnso if you find any solutions using hotplug, you'll need to change your setup06:42
cptnor use an entirely udev based one :-)06:42
cptnthe 'c' in cptn stands for cyborg ;-)06:43
pitillocptn, I?ll read nut documentation and check a little script to setup the perms... Thinking that the problem is there (it?s doing bad )06:43
cptnit's definitely some permission thing, but at least you know that it's basically working06:44
pitilloyes... the more difficult was the good compilation of usb. It?s nice explained at the doc. I?ll recheck the /etc/hotplug/usb/libhidups script06:46
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cptnyeah, you'll probably have to translate that file into udev rules06:46
cptnor alternatively reenable /sbin/hotplug as kernel hotplug handler06:47
pitilloummmm I?ll try to make a rule to this... but I?m quite bad with udev.06:48
cptnthis may help to get started06:48
pitilloI hope this can be a nice port06:48
pitilloI read gentoo documentation to understand how it works (very good documentation) I?ll see that.06:49
cptn is probably a good source of information too06:50
pitillo:O that link explain the solution... Time to read a bit. I?ll check that too.06:51
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pitillocptn, thanks a lot. I?ll read the links and try to make a rule to setup the good permisions.06:56
cptnokay, good luck with the port07:00
pitillobit a bit.... but it?s strange that CRUX is used in a lot of servers (in my case used in desktops) and there isn?t ported nut. Don?t know if is there some app to monitor ups.07:03
pitilloI learn two basics a few time ago... making backups all days finished in y (talking in english) and put at least a ups in your life07:05
cptnwell, I guess most of us running it on a server can live with a little downtime07:10
cptnat least just as good as with having no security updates07:10
cptnwell, not none, but no dedicated team providing them07:10
rxi_i hate downtimee on any machine07:11
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pitillocptn, talking about errors, problems and hardware failure... (spend money in some hardware) A little script with nut can save this.07:13
cptnyes of course, having a UPS is always handy07:14
cptnand if others have nut compatible upses, they'll sure appreciate your ports07:15
cptnand use crux as control machine, that is07:15
pitillono one at home to unplug it and plug it again... I?ll try it this afternoon.07:24
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prologic__anyone know what the performance of usb drives are ?07:40
rxi_flash or hdd?07:41
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pitilloprologic__, It depends of usb device version... (IMO quite slow but usefull)07:41
rxithey arent as quick as sata and ide but good enough for most applications07:42
rxiusb1.1 is shit slow07:46
prologic__well reason I ask is I've wondered if I can usb a usb drive or a sd card to install a desktop on to07:48
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rxisure .. aslong as both devices are 2.0 should be useable07:49
rxiif either are 1.1 you might aswell use floppiues07:49
pitilloprologic, well, IMO you can.... but quite slow (1.1 and 2.0)07:49
prologicwell of course they'd be 2.007:49
prologicwould sd cards be faster ?07:50
rxino idea but depends how it connects to the m/b07:50
treachwho puts an harddrive on usb 1.1?07:50
rxicard readers for desktop computers usually use usb07:50
pitilloprologic, dont know the transfer rates of a sd card... but big sd cards has a big seek time when are a lot space used.07:52
prologicwell obviosuly I'm only talking about a crux install07:53
prologicand not necessarily storing my 14G home dir :)07:53
prologicbut after my hard disk cacking itself on me on my desktop, I'm rather sick of hard disks :)07:54
rxilol .. get yourself a seagate with 5yr warranty07:54
treachmm. "mirror, mirror in the tower, tell me who's data is safest of them all".  :p07:55
treachJust joking, but apparently the only way to make reasonably sure you don't lose stuff, without going into full backup mode.07:56
prologicyeah well ihmo, hard disks are obsolete08:09
prologicand should be thrown out the window :)08:09
rxifind me a replacement that is cheap, holds shit loads and is compatible with most computers08:09
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prologicyeah well08:11
rxioptical storage is good but isnt cheap08:12
RyoSwrong channel08:13
nipuLi'm with treach hard drives are so cheap these days it doesnt make sense not to go with raid108:13
rxiespecially with perdenicular storage givinng us 750GB hdd's08:13
nipuLand 1Tb around the corner08:14
nipuLi might sell all my drives and just get 2 500's08:14
nipuLthat should store all my data for a few months08:14
rxiits not even worth selling hdd's .. just make an striped array with them all08:15
j^2moring all08:16
nipuLim not rich enough to stripe08:16
rxinipuL: using your exsisting drives08:16
nipuLi guess08:17
nipuLjust use them for fast temp storage08:17
nipuLunfortunately my disposable income disappeared when i became a family man08:17
nipuLin the past i'd have no problems living on 2 minute noodles so i could by some hot new piece of hardware08:18
nipuLshould save some money now that ive got voip going08:18
rxiyeah .. i setup a full voip phone system today08:19
rxitis fun stuff to play with08:20
nipuLgot my firewall tuned nicely08:20
nipuLi can make calls and torrent at the same time08:20
* nipuL humps altq08:20
rxihehe 512/128?08:20
rxiahh thats easy08:20
rxiphone only needs 128k08:21
nipuLi give mine 19208:21
nipuLsound quality is awesome, despite the slight echo08:21
rxiyeah thats the pstn part08:21
rxifaktortel ok?08:22
nipuLwhent eh boss calls he sounds like he's on speaker phone, must be his pitiful upstream08:23
rxithats the best way to hear them cos you can say "whats that? your breaking up08:23
rxi".. *hang up*08:23
nipuLhehe, i spent the last week trying to find out why i wasnt connecting, then i get an email telling me they gave me the wrong server address08:23
nipuLi spent all that time fighting with my firewall for nothing08:24
nipuLthe only annoying thing is you cant get a DID for armidale08:24
nipuLso we need 2 phones08:24
rxiouch .. i spent about 1day worth of labour trying to figure out why these phones wouldnt dial .. needed to put a  # on the end08:24
rxiengin might be able to do one08:25
nipuLcool, i might swap over08:27
nipuLshame i signed up for 3 months08:27
nipuLsave $6 though!08:27
rxilol .. thats about 12 packets of 2min noodles :P08:28
rxiarmidale is 02 67?08:28
rxithey do one08:29
rxithats there byo info08:30
nipuLhmm, might just sign up anyway, my ata has 2 phone lines08:34
rxigo the $29.95 one if your gunna make ~250 calls a month cos it bringsd the subscription down to $5/month instead of $1008:35
nipuLwe dont make that many calls08:36
nipuLthe gf just makes lost of std calls08:36
rxiahh true08:37
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hackedhead.... i'm pretty sure that was a telemarketer on the phone....   and i'm at work.....08:45
rxiwelcome to the real world08:46
nipuLi try to sell them from our shop08:46
hackedheadif only, but we're non-profit here08:46
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nipuLonce i had this guy trying to sell me a phone08:51
nipuL"get lost, my phone rocks, why dont you buy mine"08:51
rxi*yawn* getting old sucks08:55
guaquai prefer my cell phone08:59
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rxisleep is good09:04
j^2i'd kill for sleep righ now09:07
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aonj^2: you don't need to, just fall asleep :)09:08
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tilmanfalling asleep in the office sucks though09:10
treachmm. keyboards make such funny marks on your face.09:10
j^2so true09:11
aonone guy i know was once working in one firm in china09:13
aonand his subordinate once called him and said "i came to work a hour too early, can i sleep?"09:13
aontoo bad that you can't sleep in service jobs, people usually complain :/09:14
aon(this was from my own experience, afaik the chinese dude could sleep)09:14
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prologictranscode won't compile because of:10:30
prologiclibtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/'10:30
prologicmake[3]: *** [] Error 110:30
prologicany ideas ?10:30
thrice`what does prt-get fsearch libXdmcp give you?10:31
thrice`(i'm not on my crux box)10:32
treachfsearch for president!10:32
prologicit gave me no search results last time10:33
prologicI'll try again10:33
tilmanit's in x11 of course10:37
tilmanyou prolly installed x11r7 before10:37
tilmanwhich puts stuff in /usr10:37
tilmanthen reinstalled opt/x1110:37
tilmanfor whatever stupid reason10:37
tilmanand fucked up your system :-)10:38
tilmanoh, the joy of libtool10:38
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prologicUMM NO10:48
prologicerr sorry10:48
prologicthis is a fresh 2.2 system10:48
prologicwith x11 installed10:48
prologicxorg was not installed at all10:48
prologic# prt-get listinst x11 -v10:49
prologicx11 6.9.0-310:49
tilmantoo bad, i liked my theory10:52
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prologicdamn :)10:52
prologicgot another theory ? ;)10:52
guaquaserver doesn't start anymore10:54
guaquaoh well10:54
guaquadoesn't recognize nic and can't mount two partitions10:55
guaquaafter udev update that is10:55
treachprologic: how about this one? "You suck!" ;-)10:55
prologicyeah prolly :)10:56
prologicstill don't help me compile transcode though10:56
tilmanflite footprint b0rked10:57
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tilmanit has the bz2 in it, but pkgfile uses gz10:57
tilmanor the other way round10:57
prologicahh k10:59
guaquaany ideas, how to get to the source of the problem?11:00
guaquagotta take a look11:01
tilmanrejmerge for vice president \o/11:02
aonwhy only vice president? :)11:04
tilmanfsearch is president11:04
tilman/lastlog president11:04
guaquano luck :<11:10
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guaquareinstalled an old udev with system upgrade11:33
treachhmm, jdolan once found it funny that my mails always come from "treach". Apparently I'm not the only one who has adopted his handle.. :p
tilmanthat's geeky11:42
tilmana co worker of mine did the same thing. though it's harder to do with german license numbers ;)11:43
* treach remembers seeing some photo of a muich "1337" police-car. :-)11:43
tilmanwith a bunch of retards posing in front of it ._o11:44
treachI'm hopeless with looking at numberplates. :-)11:45
tilmanyou're obsessed with them? :]11:46
treachNah, but sometimes they are quite funny. :-)11:46
aonmine's ICH-, i guess that's as egoistic :)11:46
aon :)11:47
treachor like one of the hotter days this summer, I spotted a large, black volvo parked in the sun, with "UGN" on the plate, which translates as "Oven"11:47
bd2yeah.. it's VAZ Jiguli, "kopeika"11:50
treachor some really old heap of junk that is parked on the street outside, which sports "NEW". :-)11:50
tilmanaon: that's your car?11:51
tilmandoes it work?11:51
RyoSsorry, do I _need_ a video group in /etc/group?11:51
aon~150000, '8811:51
treachRyoS: Yes11:51
tilmanRyoS: yes, your eternal happyness depends on it11:51
tilmanaon: nice :D11:51
treachor at least your nvidia video drivers.11:51
aonbd2: yeah, 21013 :)11:52
RyoSwhich number would i want to give the group?11:52
treachThat makes no sense.11:53
RyoSother way: how to i create the group?11:53
treachmm.. what do you think "man" is for?11:54
treachsome programmer coded it because he had nothing else to do?11:54
tilmanprt-get remove man man-pages11:54
tilmantreach: nah, so witty stuff like foo(1) could be written11:54
treachSorry, that one just passed me without stopping, I think.11:56
tilmanman foo11:56
treachno such thing.11:56
tilmanyeah. but there's a package with stuff like man pages for foo etc11:56
tilmandon't know the name though11:56
RyoStoo funny :)11:56
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treachok. I was just aware of foo, bar & baz in the sense of metasyntactic variables.11:59
tilmani love the term "metasyntactic"12:00
tilmanif i could have a decent license plate, i'd put 'metasyntactic' on it ;)12:00
treachheh, I guess it's too long. :-)12:00
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treachhah, amazing what insights random browsing might lead into.. like the meaning of "08/15".12:12
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tilmanircname  : scheisse@haufen.de14:20
tilmanReleasedate: Battalion Beast will be released aug 28.14:20
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RyoS--disable-scrollkeeper  do not make updates to the scrollkeeper database14:30
RyoSi am not very sure how to handle this Oo14:30
tilmanwhat are you trying to do?14:30
RyoSwould i want to disable that, as i think i never had contact with "scrollkeeper"..14:30
RyoSi want to make a Pkgfile for ekiga14:30
RyoSformer gnome-meeting14:30
RyoSi am not sure if others would wnat it/need it etc..14:31
tilmani think it's safe to enable it14:31
tilmanit's one of the gnome basis libraries afaik14:31
treach..doesn't gnome per se depend on scrollkeeper? o.O14:31
tilmansomething help/documentation ;)14:31
tilmanif it's not impossible to build without it, it's a major pita14:31
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treachthought so.14:32
RyoSi will just leave it14:32
treachseems a bit pointless to disable it if you already have it.14:32
tilmanRyoS: "prt-get dependent scrollkeeper" would have helped you, i think :P14:33
RyoSwill disable it :p14:33
cptnor look for scrollkeeper in
tilman:D :D14:34
treachRyoS, and the quest for unnecessary trouble.14:34
tilman26543x1952 pixels o_O14:34
treachcoming to an irc-channel near you, RSN14:34
RyoSi know why i stick up with pekwm..14:34
treach"stick with."14:35
treach"stick up" brings odd connotations.14:35
tilmanonly to your dirty mind, treach14:35
* tilman hides14:36
RyoSi like it anyway :p14:36
treachtilman: dirty?
treachI think I know who's got a dirty mind.14:37
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tilmangotta go14:38
tilmandoing... stuff.14:38
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treach"Gimme all your money, I've got a... a... a PEKWM!"14:39
tilman-"hahaha, it's so badly maintained, it prolly won't even work anymore!"14:40
treach"well, do you feel lucky, punk?"14:40
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hackedhead....   i like pekwm well enough14:47
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treachNO. You are not allowed to do that. Your permission to "like stuff" has been revoked.14:49
hackedheadhow bout i use pekwm and i haven't been driven to homocide yet...?14:54
treachPure coincidence. Our people will arrive shortly and rescue you from your hazardous pekwm installlation and replace it with a much safer fvwm setup. ;-)14:55
cptnor xpde14:55
treachIt should be noted though that XPDE has been know to cause extreme cases of schizofrenic paranoia, and thus is on the observation list.14:56
hackedheadxpde looks like a terrible idea judgin from their homepage and the last time i tried to config fvwm i almost _did_ go homocidal15:01
hackedheadmaybe i'll try fvwm again though15:01
treachcptn: btw, that gnome-dep image, it just wouldn't happen to be a product of a late night at cruxcon? ;-)15:02
cptnheh, no15:02
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cptnmore of a test for my dependency graph generator15:03
treachoh, I thought it might be something you guys came up with to "help" jaeger. :-)15:03
jjpktilman: \o/15:06
cptnlike this?15:10
treachNice. Now all that remains is to put it in a frame and hang it on the wall.15:11
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pitillowell, I can connect now to the ups... but only by root. NEed to read more about udev to setup well to grant acces to nut user. Tomorrow more15:46
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MukundaThere is a tool for handling deps isn't there? How does it work (put simply)?17:09
MukundaHaha, okay, I mean how does it know what package depends on what?17:12
MukundaI haven't seen a dependency field in the Pkgfile's that I've looked at (only a few).17:12
HanIn the headers; # Depends on:17:13
MukundaOh cool.17:13
MukundaI'm very tempted to use pkgutils rather than pacman, crux stuff just seems much much cleaner.17:14
HanI can't compare.17:14
MukundaArch glibc package.
MukundaCrux version.
MukundaMuch nicer.17:17
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MukundaOkay why the heck would this mplayer package compile perfect and then at the very end when packaging it, fail?18:03
MukundaI'm probably doing something basic wrong.18:03
MukundaI have the Pkgfile in the directory 'mplayer' and do pkgmk -d18:03
treachno. but you might be misunderstanding something.18:03
MukundaIt's not making the binary though, when it's finished, ls just shows the source tar.18:04
treachthat might be due to the nature of pkgmk and the intent of it's design.18:05
MukundaI am not actually running crux by the way, I just stuck pkg-utils on ubuntu to try it out first.18:05
MukundaThe intent of it's design?18:05
treachalways find out what a tool is supposed to do, before you use it.18:06
MukundaFine, shall read the info page.18:06
MukundaErr or man.18:06
treachgood idea.18:06
Mukunda       pkgmk  is a package management utility, which makes a software package.18:08
Mukunda       A package is an archive of files (.pkg.tar.gz) that  can  be  installed18:08
Mukunda       using pkgadd(8).18:08
MukundaWell it's not doing that....18:08
treachwhat is it it isn't doing?18:08
MukundaIt's not making the binary package archive.18:08
treachok, funky.18:09
treachI can't check the reason for it right now, since this is a debian box..18:10
treachBut I guess the error is on your side in any case.18:10
MukundaOh, hmm I doubt it's this, but maybe I need to set up pkgmk.conf to correspond to the file tree that I have...18:11
treach(a lot of people here are using mplayer, I'm positive we'd heard if it didn't work..)18:11
MukundaHmm no, can't be that.18:11
MukundaOh no, I'm sure the error is on my side, and as I said this isn't a crux machine.18:11
MukundaDo packages have to be built as root?18:12
treachno, not for most of them.18:12
MukundaYeah, thought so...18:12
MukundaI'll try regardless.18:13
treachroot is pretty much how things are done historically. there is a guide somewhere for how to build stuff with fakeroot, but that's not 08/15 yet.18:14
treach"standard procedure"18:14
MukundaI have fakeroot installed, that was the first thing I did when it failed to build correctly the first time.18:14
MukundaOoh okay, and 08/15 comes from?18:14
treachdid you read this?  maybe there's some hints in it.
treachApparently some german expression. :-) I like it since it's considerably shorter and a bit nerdy. :p18:16
MukundaOh nice, thanks.18:16
MukundaAhh okay. :-)18:16
MukundaYeah, very neird.18:16
treachUnless you're german, I gather.18:17
MukundaYeah, building as root worked.18:18
MukundaI'll try the fakeroot thing.18:18
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jdolanaon, your car is cool, and that forest looks incredible.19:03
jdolan(re: the pic you pasted some hours ago)19:03
treachI think he's asleep. (at least he should. :p )19:05
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treach..a statement that should include me as well I guess. :-/19:07
TRIBBarg ... site down :(19:08
treachwhat site?19:09
TRIBBhmm ... ups - wrong channel :)19:09
treachah, I almost thougth jdolan managed to screw up in the short time between my last visit there and his apperance. :p19:11
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Hananyone familiar with ftd? Well I just added a port for ftd4linux :-)19:50
HanYou have to be dutch or something like that. ;-)19:51
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nipuLsweet, just got dspam with clamav integration running21:55
MukundaArgh, why does portdb have to go down now!?!21:58
nipuLMukunda: becuase the site is undergoing some maintainence22:00
MukundanipuL: any idea how long it'll be?22:00
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nipuLas long as it takes22:00
HanWhat are you looking for?22:03
Hancategory: if you don't shoot you'll always miss.22:04
MukundaDoesn't matter, busy doing other stuff.22:18
MukundaOh and it's back. :-)22:18
MukundaOh yeah, what I was looking for was a prototype Pkgfile, doesn't seem to be one there, I'll just make my own.22:19
MukundaThanks Han.22:20
HanOf course you should make your own skel. :-)22:20
MukundaI'll just edit yours. :-022:21
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prologicMukunda, prt-utils has a script called prtcreate23:25
Mukundaprologic: and that's foR23:26
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prologicit creates a standard Pkgfile for you in the current dir23:26
prologica skeleton if you will23:26
aonjdolan: yeah, that was a nice place to live in :)23:27
Mukundaprologic: oh that would be nice.23:27
Hansomething like that. :-)23:35
MukundaHmm, what would this line do... I'm no good with bash.23:46
Mukundatestdir$ ls23:46
Mukundaoot  sbin  srv  tmp  usr  var23:46
MukundaUhh woops.23:46
Mukundafor dir in /usr /usr/local; do23:46
Mukunda  ln -sv share/{man,doc,info} $dir23:46
HanNow why on earth would you want to do that?23:49
HanMost people set the prefix with ./configure --prefex=/usr23:49
MukundaIt's from here.... I just can't see the point and I'm pretty sure I understnand it, but I don't see the point... There must be a reason.23:50
HanNah, that's an insane workaround you just used.23:51
MukundaI was trying to understand what it was doing and why.23:52
HanBy default most configure scripts install in /usr/local23:55
HanNow the linux default is to use /usr23:56
HanAnd creating symlinks is a butt-ugly way to omit specifying to use /usr23:56

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