IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2006-08-22

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treachkteatime++ :-)07:06
jdolanhttp://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=1919807:23
treach:D07:24
jjpkhaha.07:24
jjpkWindows users should feel right at home. :]07:24
treachNobody should say people doesn't make an effort to make windows users feel familiar. :-)07:25
aonhehe07:29
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jjpkThere goes one already. :D07:31
aoni wonder if it actually sends error reports07:32
RyoSi asked myself the exactly same question :D07:33
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RyoSwell.. it would be nice :p07:33
pitilloxD07:34
aonthere should be an error message generator program07:34
aonso you wouldn't need to crash anything but could still send reports07:34
aonor perhaps something that reads an httpd log file and sends a report for every MSIE accessing the server07:35
morlenxusIf i have an unknown string, delimited by '-', for example "bla1-bla2-bla3". How can i get the "bla1-bla2" in a shellscript?07:35
cptnaway07:35
cptnerr07:35
nipuLhttp://www.thedailywtf.com/images/200608/wtf2.jpg07:35
pitilloxD07:36
pitillomorlenxus, using sed I think07:36
cptnsed should be fine07:37
cptnawk would work too :-)07:37
treach:D07:37
pitillonice one too07:37
morlenxusEven if the string could be "bla-bla-bla-bla-bla"? I just don't want to get the last -bla07:37
cptn|sed -e 's|-[^-]*$||'07:38
morlenxusw00y07:39
morlenxusThat regex looks awesome. :)07:39
morlenxusthx07:39
cptnyou can also use sed -e 's|.[^-]*$||' to make it less obvious what you wanted originally ;-)07:39
morlenxusthanks a lot. :)07:41
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treachhttp://www.hoardmag.com/riello/riello5.htm :D09:32
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marotilman: toyed with stgit?11:37
tilmannope11:38
tilmangit is the shit for me ;)11:38
tilmanhey, that rhymes11:38
marowell, stgit isn't exactly a replacement :P11:38
marojust allows you to stack git repos ala quilt11:38
tilmanwell11:38
tilmanyes11:38
tilmani mean, the git functionality is all i need11:39
tilmanno need for quilt in git11:39
tilman:)11:39
maroI was thinking about git for ports :)11:39
maroso instead of having different prtdir's, it could be stacked with stgit11:40
tilmanif git cannot merge your changes, why would stgit be able to do it?11:40
tilmanum11:40
tilmanhuh11:40
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copworkgood evening12:35
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sumHi12:58
sumWHat is the advantage of crux over other distributions, e.g. Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu,...13:00
vektori_CRUX has more cowbell.13:00
sumwhat do you mean by that?13:01
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tilmanhaha13:02
copworkmoo13:02
tilmanrun, vektori!13:02
copworkgreat escape13:02
sumso, do you have any answers?13:03
jjpk"fellas, he had a fever, and the only prescription was for him to leave"13:03
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tilman"noone can be told what the Crux is. you have to see it for yourself."13:04
tilman._o13:04
tilmansum: the biggest difference is that it's source based13:04
tilmanits ports system is similar to that of the bsds13:04
tilmanyet simpler, and more fun(!) to use13:04
tilman(compared to freebsd at least, i never ran the other bsd flavours)13:05
tilmansum: also, no config tools that hold your hand, a la debconf, yast in suse etc. vim /etc/blah ftw!13:05
sumtilman: what do you mean by "fun"? I want to work with the system...13:05
tilmancrux = slackware + ports13:05
cptn+ cowbells13:06
copworkmoo13:06
tilmansum: it's not a PITA13:06
tilmanit just works13:06
tilmanit makes me smile when things just work13:06
tilmansmile = fun13:06
tilmanfun13:06
sumahright.13:06
tilmanoh, and it has cowbells13:06
marochicks dig crux13:06
copworkmoo13:06
sumcan you say, it is faster than other distributions?13:06
maromuch fast13:06
sumwhy?13:07
maroit has -fomg-optimize by default13:07
tilmansum: i think comparing distros wrt speed is silly...13:07
tilmanit's easy to make crux boot fast at least13:07
cptnsum: one of crux' goals is simplicity13:07
maroand all crux boxen are overclocked and have blue lights13:07
cptnsum: it's easy to adjust a system perfectly to your needs13:07
cptnsum: which _can_ mean that it's faster in some ways13:07
tilmanmaro: i have a little blue light in my box!13:07
sumtilman: yes, kind of. but i am kind of slowed down by KDE and graphics, even firefox isn't as fast as i expect it on my machine...13:07
cptnit's not generally faster though13:08
marotilman: I thought so :/13:08
tilmanmaro: not my fault, it shipped with the case :(13:08
* cptn has two blue lights13:08
marotilman: ah, my lian-li has a blue led too :(13:08
sumcptn: correct.13:08
tilmanmy coworker is a case modder :D13:08
tilmanthey say he's got plenty of bling bling in his box :P13:08
marobeige ftw13:09
maromy only mod is a tux case badge13:09
marorather spend money on the stuff inside13:10
maroor booze and hookers13:10
tilmani'm not into hardware13:10
tilmanall it does is break all the time13:10
maronot mine :)13:10
sumare there default config-files in CRUX or do you have to write all of them from scratch (... i couldn't imagen, anyway)13:10
tilmani suspect my ide host thingies might be broken13:10
tilmandma doesn't work quite nicely on ide1 :(13:11
jjpk:|13:11
tilmansum: hehe, of course there are default config files13:11
sumtilman: ok.13:11
jjpksum: daemons usually have their config files, but you do edit them by hand.13:11
marosum: they usually reference relevant manual pages in their headers, too13:11
sumwell, i currently edit my config files by hand or at least fine trim them after running some configuration wizzard.13:12
tilmanyeah13:12
tilmani usually add stuff like13:12
tilman# omg, this is all bogus13:12
tilman;)13:12
jjpktilman: rofl13:12
tilmanto confuse rejmerge, haha13:12
tilman;-)13:12
sumhöhö, thats not nice to confuse your computer ;)13:12
tilmanlazy bitch is idle most of the time anyway ;)13:12
sumis CRUX save to use with another system that has to be reliable? Install it on a different partition on the same disk?13:13
sumtilman: isn't every PC idle most of the time...13:13
cptnone thing CRUX never does is think for you, nor do automatic stuff13:13
cptnso it won't touch any other system on your drive13:13
tilmani configured mine to say "Good morning Dave" on boot though13:14
jjpkNot unless you instruct it to.13:14
tilmani like the idea of a thinking computer13:14
tilman;)13:14
sumhmm. but doing some config wrong will maybe break my other system, won't it?13:14
tilmanyes13:14
tilmansum: you could install crux in qemu13:14
jjpkGet a live cd and fix it. done.13:14
tilmanto try it out13:14
sumtilman: ok, slows down everything twice ;)13:14
tilmanor run a live cd to test it13:14
sumis the official iso a "live cd"?13:15
cptnas live as it needs to be to rescue a broken bootloader for example13:15
jjpkIt's just an installer.13:15
jjpkor what cptn said. :p13:16
cptnit's not a knoppix-alike of crux though13:16
sumok.13:16
sumCRUX is i686 currently. there is no other official branch on a different architecture, right?13:17
cptnthat's correct13:17
jjpkThere is a contributed i586 iso, and a ppc project, but they are not official.13:18
cptnthere's also an x86_64 project which was abandoned though13:18
cptnand a proof-of-concept sparc port13:19
sumhmm... many ports make it difficult to keep track with everything, don't they?13:19
cptn"keep track"?13:20
sumwell, keep all things correct, portable. code must compile with different compiler etc.13:21
HanEvery advantage has got it's disadvantage.13:21
tilmanports are tested with the current compiler that's in ports13:21
tilman:D13:21
sumyes.13:23
sumIs there any package management system like apt?13:23
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Auge^hi :)13:23
Hanhi Auge^13:23
HanHave you got some interesting questions for us for a change?13:23
Han:-)13:24
Auge^questions? mhh... no... but a challange...13:24
cptnsum: package management: yes13:24
Auge^convince me why i should install crux =)13:24
cptnsum: whether it's like apt is hard to say13:24
cptnAuge^: because you want13:25
HanAuge^, I give up.13:25
cptnif you don't, then don't13:25
sumAuge^: well, you are kind of a bit late ;)13:25
sumcptn: ok.13:25
Auge^sum: yeah, got some food =)13:25
Auge^cptn: i want because i like ports/pkgsrc in bsd-world?13:26
sumWell, i think i will give CRUX a try or at least see, what is better than in other distris.13:26
Auge^cptn: because i like bsd at all but need a linux on my workstation? =)13:26
Hanbetter...13:26
tilmanAuge^: you do?13:26
sumCrux is source-based, right?13:26
cptnsum: yes13:26
Auge^tilman: i do what?13:27
sumso, i have to compile everything?13:27
jjpkThat is what source-based means.13:27
sumok, thanks up to now.13:27
jjpkThe installation cd uses binary packages, but upgrades are compiled by yourself.13:27
summy lasagne waits for beeing eaten :-))13:27
tilmanAuge^: like ports/pkgsrc in bsd-world13:27
Auge^tilman: of course, don't you?13:28
tilmanfreebsd's ports system annoyed me13:29
Auge^mh. never touched the crux one... so i don't know the differences13:29
Auge^where are the diffs?13:32
pitillotake a look to handbook at crux.nu it has a lot of info13:32
Auge^ok. i'll do13:32
Auge^"Using HttpUp, every user can publish his or her own ports easily" <- great!13:35
Auge^Am I tough enough to break down my system and install Crux instead? :)13:38
tilmanprobably nto13:38
Auge^a good backup is necessary :)13:39
pitillosure, all days finished in y13:40
Auge^damn, you're right =)13:40
Auge^BackUp is running ... [30%]13:54
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Auge^backup finished.14:00
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otari have a question about a pkgfile...anyone kind to help me out?14:02
cptnjust ask14:02
otar20:10:40 (45.97 KB/s) - `/home/otar/opendchub/opendchub-0.7.14.tar.gz.partial' saved [187739/187739]14:02
otar=======> ERROR: Md5sum mismatch found:14:02
otarMISSING   9484c22bd6d60c687f4161bc8d564d9b  opendchub-0.7.15.tar.gz14:02
otarNEW       6121347154820e2b307a5aecafa86ce8  opendchub-0.7.14.tar.gz14:02
cptnokay, that's an md5sum missmatch14:02
otar=======> ERROR: Building '/home/otar/opendchub/opendchub#0.7.14-1.pkg.tar.gz' failed.14:03
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cptnotar: http://crux.nu/Main/Faq#ntoc414:03
otarcan you take a look at my file?14:04
cptnI can, but what would that help?14:05
cptnwhat does the above missmatch tell you?14:05
otari dont know14:05
cptnwell, it expected something (MISSING), and got something else (NEW)14:06
otari had figured that out already14:07
copworko.ob14:07
otarbut the expected download is the same it downloaded so why the missmatch14:08
otarMISSING   9484c22bd6d60c687f4161bc8d564d9b  opendchub-0.7.15.tar.gz14:09
otarNEW       8f9ab5bb7f85730f4b1ce7cceb6aef96  opendchub-0.7.15.tar.gz14:09
cptnopendchub-0.7.15.tar.gz14:09
cptnopendchub-0.7.14.tar.gz14:09
otarnevermind that part check the new one14:09
cptnnow, that's a different output...14:09
otarmy mistake14:09
cptnwell, there can be a couple of reasons for that14:09
rehabdollis that a sourceforge download?14:09
otaryes14:09
cptncovered on http://crux.nu/Main/Faq#ntoc414:09
rehabdollmake sure its not just a tiny html-file14:10
rehabdollcause thats what you get sometimes from sourceforge14:10
otarno, it is the real file14:10
otartar.gz14:10
rehabdollyeah, but check the size14:10
otari know...it is the expected (it really is the program source)14:11
rehabdollif its a real tarball, contact the opendchub people and ask why they repacked 0.7.1514:11
rehabdollif you trust the file, do a "pkgmk -um" from the port's dir and then build the port as usual14:12
rehabdoll-um just updates the md5sum14:12
Hancheck the whole output!14:12
otarrehabdoll that tip worked14:13
rehabdollyeah, but now you're building a port with a tarball that has been changed somehow14:13
rehabdolland the question is, do you really want to do that14:14
rehabdoll:)14:14
otaralready did...14:14
otarbut i get that with the previous version 2...14:15
otar0.7.1414:15
rehabdollask the port maintainer what's up then14:15
otarand tried different mirrors too14:16
cptnrehabdoll: he created the port himself AFAICS14:16
rehabdolloh dear14:16
rehabdoll:)14:16
otarwell it seems to be working14:17
otaras expected14:17
otarmay i use this config "source=(http://surfnet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/$name/$name-$version.tar.gz)"?14:18
qidexcept for the rootkit14:18
qid>_>14:18
tilmanimo you should remove the "surfnet." part14:19
tilmanhardcoding specific sourceforge mirrors sucks14:19
otarok14:19
qidotar: http://crux.nu/Main/Faq#ntoc2314:20
otarhow about tar.bz2 files?14:20
tilmani prefer bz2 over gz cause they sometimes are significantly smaller14:20
tilmanthen there's people who hate bz2 because it takes a little bit longer to compress and uncompress14:21
tilmanafaik all of them use pentium 1 cpus ;)14:21
otarthanks14:22
cptntilman: I might be wrong, but I think that's just the reason for pkgmk not using bz214:23
cptnwhich makes more sense there since many packages are binaries, and harder to compress14:24
cptni.e. the gain is not that big14:24
cptnfor sources, I've never heard anyone complain about using bz214:24
tilmanokay14:24
tilmancptn: han does ;)14:24
tilmani don't know of anyone else either14:24
cptnbut then again, most of my friends have PII's by now ;-)14:24
tilmangz for packages is no problem. i think most crux users don't archive packages :D14:25
qidI keep backups of packages...14:27
qidthe last version, in case I have to rollback, and the current version, so if I have to format and reinstall for some reason I can just reinstall the package14:27
tilmanif my disc crashes i'll be so frustrated that i'll install debian14:28
tilman;)14:28
rehabdollanyone of you guys using intel's new core duo cpu?14:28
rehabdollim bored and thinking of getting new hardware.. would be nice to know if there are any issues with linux and the appropirate intel-chipsets for that cpu14:30
otarthe system won`t create the package if it is .bz2 sourced14:36
otari am missing some decompress utility or something?14:36
cptnhow could we know?14:36
cptndo you miss it?14:36
otar=======> Building '/home/otar/efltk/efltk#2.0.5-1.pkg.tar.gz'.14:36
otartar -C /home/otar/efltk/work/src --use-compress-program=bzip2 -xf /home/otar/efltk/efltk-2.0.5.tar.bz214:36
otar+ build14:36
otar+ cd efltk-2.0.514:36
otarPkgfile: line 14: cd: efltk-2.0.5: No such file or directory14:36
cptnwell, maybe the directory has a different name in the tarball=14:37
cptn?14:37
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cptnit's just efltk, I checked for you14:38
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maro:D14:51
marohttp://www.christianubuntu.com/14:51
jjpk"no daemons here!" :D14:51
marocheck out the screenshot14:51
marohttp://www.whatwouldjesusdownload.com/christianubuntu/uploaded_images/access_denied_screen-757701.png14:51
jjpklol14:51
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Auge^installation in progress...15:28
triis there a twm package for crux ?15:30
Auge^http://crux.nu/portdb/simple.php15:31
copworktwm comes with the crux basic install15:33
triif i haven`t installed twm with the crux basic install - howto install it later (now)15:34
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deus_exprt-get install clue -- Packages not found clue15:41
deus_exDamn.15:42
jjpkhit 'n miss. :p15:42
deus_ex:)15:44
deus_exmaro: Thanks for that link, I'll pass it to my 'strong believer' friend.15:45
deus_exHe actually passed out when he watched 'passion of christ'.15:47
jjpkFaith can be mentally orgamisc at times. ;)15:47
deus_exHe said that he 'felt the pain of Our Lord' during whipping scene.15:48
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deus_exHe freaks me out sometimes, but he has 5 gorgoeus sisters so...15:49
* deus_ex awaits spelling police to knock the doors in 15:49
jjpk:D15:50
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deus_extilman is away, so I'm safe.For now ;)15:51
Auge^dhclient is not installed with base install? :/15:53
rehabdolldhcpcd15:54
jjpkUse dhcpcd.15:54
cptnAuge^: it would be a good idea to read the handbook15:55
Auge^ah, ok :) ic.15:56
deus_exhttp://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/thong-issues.jpg15:57
Auge^cptn: yeah, i have to read more carefully... i missed this point...15:57
deus_exHeh.15:57
rehabdollstill, crux lacks much of the BASICS16:03
jjpkBASICS ftw.16:05
brointhemixrehabdoll: which basics does crux lack?16:10
brointhemixi think it's just right16:12
rehabdollheh, search the mailinglist16:12
brointhemixi'm not signed to the mailing lists :(16:13
rehabdollold joke anyway16:14
brointhemix;)16:15
Auge^mh, never configured a kernel for this machine... so... this will take some time =)16:18
rehabdollhttp://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux/2006-January/006100.html16:19
rehabdoll"WITHOUT LYNX, WITHOUT BASICS.... Sorry, makes no fun."16:19
brointhemixlynx is in the ports, i believe16:21
brointhemixdunno about eject and the rest16:22
brointhemixnever used them :)16:22
brointhemixthe guy's complaining too much :)16:23
brointhemixcrux is the distro16:24
brointhemix:)16:24
jjpkHehe, Ronny has serious shortages upstairs...16:25
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treachdeus_ex:  :p I prefer this one. http://tinyurl.com/s6abs16:56
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treachChristian; n, N. American abbreviation for "I proudly wear blinders, and will happily force them on others given the slightest chance."17:10
treachbah. wrong window.17:10
deus_extreach: I've seen it before.It's still great :)17:16
treachyeah. :)17:16
Auge^urgs... grub still in mbr. have to fix that.17:17
deus_extreach: You've seen this http://attu.blogspot.com/2006/08/church-fires-teacher-for-being-woman.html ?17:17
treachnot yet17:18
deus_exI would love to hear your comment on that.17:18
treachheh.17:19
treachI guess you're going to be disapointed. It just boggles the mind.17:19
treachMaybe I should revise the entry above to simply read as "I'm an totall ass."17:19
treach-l17:20
treachexcept it would probably be an insult to asses all over the world in this case, but that's obvious.17:20
deus_ex:)17:21
Auge^ok. crux is running. :)17:23
deus_exRunning where?17:25
Auge^on my workstation... i kicked an old suse to trash ;)17:27
deus_exGood for you :)17:28
Auge^but don't ask my why i installed suse 2 years ago...17:28
Auge^me17:28
treachyou were a newbie in search of a point and click distro?17:29
Auge^i was a newbie 10 years ago.17:29
deus_exI used Suse while back(version 7 something), before Novell?17:29
Auge^i used suse starting with 6.something17:29
Auge^then some mandrake versions... gentoo... netbsd, openbsd, freebsd...17:30
Auge^and then back to suse - a great mistake =)17:30
deus_exHow it's called these days?OpenSuse?17:30
Auge^dunno17:31
treach"Gnomehead infested peice of crap"17:31
deus_exFriend of mine replaced Gentoo with latest Suse.Oh, well....17:32
treachless compiling at least.17:32
deus_extreach: Nice.New tagline for it?17:32
treachNah. It's just what I call it these days.17:32
deus_exAt first I thought you are talking about Ubuntu.17:34
deus_ex'Gnomehead'17:34
treachNo, I wasn't. Ubuntu has actually turned out to be pretty nice so far, where I've used it.17:35
treachsure, it's gnome but it's not infested with all that mono this, mono that hype or political bullshit that miguel et co seem to love so much.17:36
deus_exK17:39
deus_exIs it possible to save streaming content?Like videos and such?17:42
treachI've never attempted it, but I can't see why not. IIRC there is some app (streamgrabber?) that can do that for mp3 streams.17:43
deus_exStreamgrabber works.Anything for mms?17:44
deus_exLike  mms://maxim.wmod.llnwd.net/a458/o2/maxim/Body Doubles/BodyDoubles_Winners_Brazil.wmv17:45
treachthat looks like a file..17:45
deus_exmimms segfaults :(17:45
treachmplayer doesn't handle that?17:47
deus_extreach: Yes, it does, but it's streamed from server in chunks.mplayerplug-in can't buffer 100% .17:47
treachok.17:47
treach<- xine user and really never bothers about streaming content..17:47
deus_exI'll have to check that out.mimms worked some time ago...17:48
treachheh, seems to work with codeine here..17:49
deus_exCodeine?17:49
treachyeah.17:49
treachkde frontend for xine17:49
deus_exSo it should work with xine-ui?17:50
deus_exLemme check.17:50
treachmeh, I mean kaffeine.17:53
deus_exXine-ui works, playing it.17:58
treachI had the option to save the stream in the file menu, but it didn't work. Sound of broken glass, and a popup warning me about "security risk" something, and then kaffeine died. Annoying. :S18:00
treachbut it played the stream.18:00
deus_exXine-ui played it also.No recording though.18:02
deus_ex'security risk'?Nice :)18:02
treachwell, it wasn't worth recording anyway. :D18:02
treachMh. No idea why my home dir "might cause a security risk" or wtf it was blabbering about. :-/18:03
deus_exI want to be prepared when something worth recording comes along :)18:04
treachsure ;)18:04
deus_exMaybe Wind0ws==security risk?18:04
treachthis isn't windows..18:04
deus_exs/maybe//18:04
treachdefinitely18:05
deus_exNo, but that's windows media file.18:05
treachah right.18:05
deus_exFrom msft kitchen.18:05
treachI'm getting tired, didn't think that far.18:05
deus_extreach: g/n, I need to sleep, I work in the morning.See you around.18:07
treachgood night.18:07
* treach goes back to wondering if the slowness of composite windows depends on hardware or just because it's run on pesky i486 optimized debian..18:09
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treachah, a new kde volonteer has stepped up.18:15
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Hanhttp://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/19:57
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qidjdolan: osnap, Echon is calling you out21:57
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qid<Echon> generate mesh arrays and batch based on plane on map load | <Echon> certain make it faster | <Echon> especially on ati~ | <Echon> make that prick jdolan look stupid22:03
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nipuL7/1022:24
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MukundaWhich package installs ifconfig?22:41
qid/usr/ports/core/net-tools/.footprint:-rwxr-xr-x root/root       sbin/ifconfig22:42
MukundaThanks.22:44
qidfor future reference, you can do grep whatever /usr/ports/*/*/.footprint22:46
qidor use pkginfo, actually22:47
qidheh22:47
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jdolanqid, thanks for the heads up.23:13
jdolanechon is not very professional.23:13
jdolanhe's probably young, doesn't work in the industry, and is slightly upset that i chose to clean the same codebase instead of impregnate it with lots of (mostly unwanted) visuals.23:14
jdolanhe's spoken poorly of me and my efforts in the past while maintaining a friendly front with me on some forums.23:14
jdolani don't have very much respect for him at all anymore.23:14
qidhe's fairly young, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't work in the games industry23:15
jdolani meant software industry period.23:15
qidhe claims to have done programming/software work23:15
jdolani couldn't really care less what he claims.  it's easy to make up impressive stories on irc.  :)23:16
jdolanthere's just no need for trash talking like that.23:17
qidyeah, r1ch is doing pretty much the same23:18
qidtrash talking, that is23:18
jdolanyea.. i know.23:18
jdolanya know, having seen pictures of r1ch, i can almost imagine what echon looks like..23:18
jdolanand with that in mind, their comments really don't bother me.23:19
jdolanlol.23:19
qidlol23:19
jdolani'm not going to let some 90lb virgin get under my skin.23:19
qidI don't think echon really looks anything like r1ch though23:19
qidfor one thing, r1ch is British, echon is American23:19
jdolanright, clearly they could look nothing alike ;)23:20
jdolanit just bothers me that i've shown nothing but good will towards both of them and their projects.23:20
jdolanin fact, on my retecture wiki page i mention and link to R1Q2/R1GL.23:20
jdolanbitter young boys, man.. don't understand open source or choice at all.23:21
jdolanme me me.23:21
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qidLowlypeon: do keep it civil, please23:22
LowlypeonI haven't even said anything yet.23:22
qidexactly23:22
LowlypeonAnd for all you know, I may not have.23:22
jdolanwho's this?23:23
Lowlypeonqid's lover.23:23
jdolan8===)23:23
qidjdolan: friend from #gloom, I assumed he was here to defend r1 and echon23:23
jdolanoh, hah.  well there'll be none of that in here.23:23
jdolanthis is a linux channel.23:23
qidLowlypeon: dude, don't turn into CA now23:23
LowlypeonEh?23:24
jdolani'll absolutely not have one bit of that "argument" spill over into here.23:24
jdolanso if that's why you're here, please leave.23:24
* jdolan heads off to bed, peering at his screen from across the room23:28

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