IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2006-08-29

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treachcptn: "Targeted" unless I'm much mistaken.05:19
cptnthanks, fixed05:24
treachyou're welcome.05:24
treachcptn: I guess something "is *an* overkill", but that's a minor thing. However, I wish I could make a makro or something to paste that link into the irc-klient. :p05:31
cptnwhy would you need a macro for that?05:32
treachfaster. :)05:32
cptnah, I get it now05:32
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treachuh-oh. Flavours coming up again..07:17
treachWhy do people insist on turning crux into gentoo?07:17
rxicos gentoo is 133707:17
treachgentoo is too darn complicated and half of the ebuilds are constatly broken, forbidden, masked or just a PITA in some other way.07:19
rxitreach: i think eventually flavours could be useful and if properly intergrated and kept within the crux philosophy then id be all for it07:19
pitillothat Q was discussed here I think...07:19
rxitreach: yeah i know all about that running gentoo/hppa07:19
treachbut they would make footprints useless.07:19
rxipitillo: its discussed every 6 months or so07:19
treachrxi:  I can imagine. =)07:19
pitillotreach, and there is no way to make differents footprints?07:19
pitillorxi, I read it and thinked about, but need more knowledge. Didn?t try gentoo and can?t talk about it07:20
treachyou mean the packager should have an qemu image of crux for every possible combination?07:20
rxipitillo: ?07:21
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treachsince every possible combination of applications/libs would give a new footprint..07:21
pitillotreach, well thinked. But may be one person can do a flavour and the footprint, and another if can see another flavour, then make another footprint07:21
rxipitillo: well there would be endless amounts of footprints07:21
treachI think that's called "making your own port"07:21
pitillorxi, I read the mail at the mailing list and think a bit about it.07:22
treachpitillo: I suggest you troll the ml record07:22
pitillorxi, true then isn?t minimal07:22
rxitreach: thats too much work .. easier to just bitch about it on the ml :P07:22
treachhaha, I guess so.07:22
pitillotreach, I don?t want to troll nothing. Only read and think about07:22
rxihe meant trawl07:22
treachyeah. sorry, momentary mental shortcircuit there.07:23
cptnrxi: "kept within the crux philosophy" is the part which doesn't work07:28
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rxicptn: yeah so until someone comes up with a way to make it work i guess its sitting on the shelf :)07:29
treach"making something "just a bit" more complex isn't "simple" anymore" :-)07:29
treachgrowing rabbitears rxi?07:30
rxihehe no i thought you didnt close your "" but then i re-read it and found you did :)07:30
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cptnrxi: well, someone already found a way07:34
cptnit's called gentoo07:34
cptna "simpler way" to solve the same usually means that they just work in special cases07:34
cptnlike the suggestion on the ML07:34
rxii dont read the ml07:35
cptnwell, it doesn't really matter07:35
cptnit's just that if you believe someone will find a way to make it work which is simpler than portage07:36
cptnthen you'll probably wrong07:36
* rxi shrugs .. i dont really care either way07:36
rxiim just saying that _if_ someone did then id be for it07:37
rxii like that functionality but it isnt life and death if i dont have it07:37
clarecptn; one of the "unnecessary features" which really bugs me elsewhere is  having to learn a special way to manage a config file instead of just editing it..07:51
clarenot sure how to say that  in only a few words.07:53
cptnyeah, the distro-specific config abstraction layer...07:55
clareouch! that is certianly not simple :)07:55
clarecptn: a similar thing I really like about Crux is that it doesn't come between me and an Application, it allows me to use an Application as its author intended.08:08
treachhey watch it. sounds like you're going religious. :P08:08
clarewell Crux is a big part of my life. I t makes it possibe to do all sorts of things, without getting under my feet while I do them08:10
cptnclare: yeah, I like that a lot too08:12
cptnit's also easier to get support from the authors08:12
cptnif you don't have a heavily modified distro version08:12
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HanPkgfiles are so readable anyone can understand what you did to build something.08:33
rxiwish the same could be said for ebuild08:34
richi_autcptn: are you using the freetype package from your repository? as far as i know it causes errors, when you try to compile fontconfig...08:35
richi_autif yes, which fontconfig package do you use?08:35
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Hanfreetype-2.2.1 is not yet supported by xorg-7.1 IIRC08:37
HanSo I switched back to 2.1.1008:38
cptnrichi_aut: no, I'm not using it08:38
cptnrichi_aut: there's a bug report in our bug tracking08:39
cptnand I just made to port to allow testing08:39
richi_autyes, some time ago, i tried to make an own fontconfig port (with a devel version), which then worked, but then there where other errors in other libs...08:39
cptnthere are patches08:39
HanI recommend people stick a while longer with 2.1.10, since support for 2.2.1 is not yet done for a lot of packages.08:40
richi_autyes, the bug was made by me, i just wanted to know, whether it has been used successfully.08:40
richi_authan: i had the same experience, so i will take it out from my prt-get.conf, again. thanks08:43
Handon't mention it.08:44
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jdolan_hi, did the recent udev update uh.. break things?09:26
jdolan_oh, no more devfs-style names?09:27
jdolan_does that mean i use /dev/hdX or /dev/discs/disc0?09:27
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jdolan_i love it when a sysup takes down my nfs server..09:28
jdolan_anyone, ping09:31
pitilloand what about using a README file to explain some importants changes? It's only one file that can solve problems like that09:31
rxijdolan_: sorry man i thought you were just ranting :P09:31
jdolan_i have our main nfs server down right now, which means all workstations are down.09:32
jdolan_do i revert udev and pray, or is this a simple fix?09:32
pitilloor is it a bad idea?09:32
jdolan_machine is booted off 2.2 iso right now, need solution fast.09:32
pitilloI'm not using the last udev update, sorry man. Can't help, only told that thought.09:33
rxisorry dont know .. ive got a feeling that you use /dev/hdX09:33
jdolan_i use /dev/hdx09:34
jdolan_always have.09:34
rxiyeah me too09:35
jdolan_yea it's udev tho.09:35
jdolan_reverted by pkgadd -r from booting off the 2.2 iso09:35
jdolan_there needs to be an ANN about stuff like this..09:35
jdolan_"oh btw your production servers might bomb if you update this port"09:36
rxiyeah that might be handy09:36
treachmaybe even a note to self about locking critical stuff and only update them on weekends, or something. ;-)09:38
Hanhmmm interesting:
jdolan_treach, i wear many hats here.  i take care of the network when i have the time.09:41
treachjdolan_ I'm sure you do as best you can.09:42
jdolan_while i'm already flustered.. is there a way to have abiword read/write doc/swx out of the box?09:44
treachI think so.09:44
jdolan_i.e. a way to deploy one package and not have to dick with plugins for 14 users?09:44
treachbut IIRC it's kind of complicated to get it working, hairy deps.09:45
jdolan_because i love abiword and gnumeric..09:45
jdolan_ah.  damn.  openoffice just plain sucks.09:45
treachlighter than ooo. :P09:45
jdolan_that's not even the word for it.09:45
treachI'm not so sure about abiword either..09:45
cptnjdolan_: what exactly did udev break?09:45
jdolan_we're stuck at ooo 1.1.4.. 2.0 crashes lots.09:45
cptn/dev/hdX / /dev/sdX should be fine09:46
treachI've had some bad experience with abiword... But that was a long time ago, but you know how it is. once burned..09:46
jdolan_treach, yea, sums up my feelings towards windows.09:47
jdolan_altho i'm quite sure they've not improved ;)09:47
treachjdolan_ exactly what went wrong? You just didn't skip rejmerge once too many?09:47
jdolan_i didn't rejmerge at all.09:48
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treachmight be that then.09:48
jdolan_just paniced when the server died :)09:48
jdolan_true, could be.09:48
jdolan_either way i've locked udev for now..09:49
jdolan_if i get to return to my old position here and have the time, i'll revisit it.09:49
jdolan_i'd like to check out recent xfce, and possibly level these machines, dropping gnome, and trying xfce again.09:49
treachthe beta version looks promising09:50
jdolan_my pkgsync repository is a beast thanks to gnome..09:50
jdolan_it's nauseating.09:50
treacheven got a decent filemanager now. :-)09:50
jdolan_cool :)09:50
richi_autyes, thundar is better, than the old one.09:50
treachI'm talking about xfce, not gnome. :p09:50
richi_autsorry, thunar09:50
richi_autI'm not using gnome, this is a xubutu box.09:51
treachrichi_aut: I was clarifying since jdolan_ apparently thougth I was talking about gnome. "It's nauseating."09:52
richi_autah... ok09:52
jdolan_i'm quite sure a rejmerge would solve my gdm woes too..09:52
jdolan_rejmerge on 11 machines sucks tho.09:53
treachmh. there should be a way to export common parts of /etc.09:53
rxiwouldnt take much to script it09:54
jdolan_treach, i think less anal pkgadd.conf would help.09:56
jdolan_there are, in reality, 10 or so files which should never be upgraded.09:56
jdolan_those should be locked, all else should be fair game.09:56
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jdolan_back to the grind.10:01
jdolan_nice to say hi again.. been a while.10:01
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jjpkThere goes another fan of USE flags on the ml...10:22
jjpkIt must be too hard to change the damned Pkgfile by hand.10:22
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HanSimply don't use prt-get for that specific port.10:25
jjpkAlternatively, this person could simply implement it locally and have fun.10:25
jjpkThat is the beauty of crux, extend and complicate it all you want. ;)10:26
jjpkJust do so on your own time. :p10:26
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guaquaanyone have any good tips for getting debian packages into crux format?10:27
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guaquai need their netcat :/10:27
Hanguaqua, check out the netcat in my tree as well. It's the OpenBSD netcat.10:27
guaquai have, but i need to do udp broadcast :/10:28
guaquaso no luck yet10:28
jjpkHaha, now the USE flag fun spilled over to crux-devel.10:31
HanOf course anyone is free to make suggestions. You do have to appreciate that.10:31
jjpkProblem is that this is reinventing the gentoo wheel, without calling it so.10:33
tilmanas long as i'm free to ridicule their suggestions, it's okay that anyone can make them10:33
guaquai think it's just more bells and whistles10:34
treachguaqua: alien can't help?10:34
HanIt breaks compatibility with the existing Pkgfiles10:34
guaquatreach: i have to look into it10:34
treachok, just a thought.10:35
tilmannow the choice is:10:35
guaquait might just be easier to do it by myseld10:35
tilmantake $port and modify it to fit my needs, OR10:35
tilmantake $port and modify it to make use of USE10:35
tilmanwhat's less work? ;)10:35
treachfor whom? ;)10:36
bd2do ports covered by rsync save changes by default at "ports -u"?10:44
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guaquahow do i pass the path to glibc to make?10:53
guaquarephrased, how do i pass path arguments to make?10:55
treachlike this? $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -o program obj/file1.o obj/file2.o10:57
treach"obj" being a dir in pwd containing object files.10:58
treachmaybe that wasn't what you meant.10:59
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guaquai don't quite understand why the compile doesn't go through10:59
* treach gets crystal ball.11:00
guaquathis is what i see: :)11:01
cptnguaqua: ever heard of google?11:01
cptnsecond hit ->
cptn"The error you mention goes away by adding 'include resolv.h' to netcat.c"11:02
guaquai have, sorry for being passive11:02
cptnalso, the same page suggests that might fix it11:04
deus_extreach: Any lottery numbers in that crystal ball?11:08
treachsorry. It seems I've never managed to tune in stuff like that on it.11:08
treachit only seems to work at predicting what kind of errors people are making, and only erratic at that.11:09
deus_exSo, I''l have to cancel purchase of that island...11:09
treachalso, it never seems to work for myself..11:09
deus_exWe would split the money 50/50 :)11:10
treachsorry, very little prospect of that. :/11:10
deus_exKeep the hope alive!11:11
deus_exOr smth...11:11
treach"as long there is life there is hope" is a local saying here.11:11
treach*as long as*11:12
deus_exNice one.11:12
deus_exHere is more like'as long as you live here, there is not much hope'.11:13
deus_exOr it used to be like that.11:13
deus_exI hope.11:13
treachwell. As long as people stay, things might improve.11:13
treachbrain-drain doesn't make things better.11:14
deus_exBut, smart and capable people, young ones in particular, always had a hard time11:15
deus_exachieving something here.11:15
deus_exAt some point you just stop trying and walk away.11:16
deus_exFew of my friends left in the 90's to other countries.11:17
deus_exNostalgia wears off after a while...11:17
deus_exAltough, most of them would come back here, when/if this becomes normal country.11:18
deus_exBaseball bat, prime minister and me in a same room.15 min is all I need...11:19
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marotilman: what was r1781 supposed to fix? :/11:20
tilman!whatis r178111:21
tilmanmaro: a bad installation directory?11:22
tilmandoesn't the commit comment explain?11:22
marowhat makes /usr/share/applications "right"?11:22
tilmanthe respective spec on fdo?11:23
deus_exfreedesktop guidelines?11:23
marothe content of that file is only useful for gnomewm (small wrapper for substituting the window manager in gnome, it's part of gnome-session)11:23
tilmanuh uh11:24
maro*perhaps* that's why upstream put it there11:24
tilmani told upstream about the wrong dir and upstream agreed it's wrong11:24
tilmanupstream is a bit ignorant though11:24
maro".desktop" is only a format, like xml and such :)11:25
maroI guess the addition of the file was a patch from somebody who knew what he was doing11:26
maro(and upstream don't have a clue)11:26
tilmanthe former maintainer put it in i think11:30
tilmanboth should be gnome addicts though i think11:30
tilmananyway, doesn't matter11:30
marowell, could you please revert? :)11:35
tilmanalready did11:35
marothanks, you rock :)11:35
tilmanages ago11:35
maroyou could have just bumped the release back to 1 ;-p11:36
maro(since we don't do version magic like the stupid distros)11:37
cptn.oO(or ilenia)11:37
guaquacptn, treach: i compiled the 2.0 alpha version and got it working without any hassle11:42
guaquathanks for help anyway11:42
cptnno problem, didn't mean to be rude :-)11:42
guaquanah, it was the right reaction, i was a bit sloppy :)11:43
tilmani should bash heidi for cross-posting11:48
tilmanor does anyone else prefer to do that/11:48
cptnwe trust you11:48
treachcrack that whip ;)11:49
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tilmanyay, first xorg release that's build with new autoconf (mandir...)12:13
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treach"pkgadd: ignoring usr/share/gnome/wm-properties/openbox.desktop" yay.. that felt like a worthy upgrade. :P12:29
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tilmantreach: pg-up for the explanation ;)12:54
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treachtilman: I know. I just found it slightly ironic that the very file that prompted the update, ended up being ignored in the end.. :p13:08
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Auge^mh. some troubles with xawtv here... v4l works... but just with mplayer. xawtv just shows a black screen :/ any ideas?13:35
deus_exAuge^: Did you run scantv?13:36
Auge^nope... i just use my old settings in .xawtv13:38
Auge^Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0". <- this shouldn't be a problem?!13:38
cptnAuge^: are you using ivtv?13:39
Auge^till now i am using xawtv13:39
cptnno, as v4l driver13:39
Auge^ah, ic... no... bttv13:40
cptnah, okay13:40
Auge^driver works... picture is fine with mplayer.13:40
cptnwhen using ivtv, /dev/video is an mpeg stream13:41
cptnwhich works fine in mplayer13:41
cptnbut not in xawtv, unless you use xawtv betas13:41
Auge^Opening video decoder: [raw] RAW Uncompressed Video13:41
Auge^mplayer says13:41
cptnso "works in mplayer" doesn't mean "works in xawtv"13:41
tilmanmaybe you tell mplayer to use gl for output, but as you don't have glx foo available, it falls back to xv?13:41
tilmanjust a guess ;)13:41
Auge^mplayer uses xv. xawtv should do too.13:42
deus_exI use xdtv(bttv driver).Works like a charm.13:42
Auge^xawtv -nogl -xv <- nothing changes13:43
Auge^deus_ex: its worth a try13:45
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deus_exAuge^: I tried both, and  tvtime.xdtv suits me best, and it picks all channels on my cable.13:48
deus_ex2.4.0 will be released soon.13:49
deus_exOnly problem I have is that it doesn't record sound.13:49
deus_exI think that is case of PEBKAC, though :)13:51
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deus_exQ:In alsa, dmix is used so several applications can use soundcard for playing at the same time.13:54
deus_exIs there something like that for recording sound?13:54
tilmandunno, but you could multiplex the result with sox14:00
tilman"multiplex the sources" :)14:00
deus_extilman: I don't think that sox would help in this case.I'll reread man sox, though.It's quite a tool :)14:05
deus_exiirc, xdtv does record sound, sort of.It records silence.14:08
guaquadoes anyone know how to pass multicast video stream to private network from a public one?14:09
guaquai've done something with emcast | netcat but can't seem to get udp broadcast working14:09
guaquacan i install vlc without installing n+1 useless libraries for a server?14:10
*** nope^ has quit IRC14:10 has a answer(haven't played with it myself).14:11
guaquahave to take a look at it14:11
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Auge^ok... next step... xawtv shows a still green ghost picture on startup... but no moving picture :(14:18
guaquavideolan server might be the solution14:21
guaquaworking on it :)14:21
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guaquamake[1]: *** /usr/ports/gua/vls/work/src: Is a directory.  Stop.14:38
deus_exguaqua: I have a port for vlc-0.8.5.It is somewhat outdated(deps for it, mostly).14:45
deus_exYou want?14:46
guaquai'm trying to do vls14:48
deus_exGood luck :)14:48
guaqua? :D14:49
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guaquagot stuck in irc quotes15:04
tilmanmaro: you have an implementation of that install hooks thing in pkgadd, right?15:16
thrice`what is this install deal that's being worked on?15:28
tilmanthe "pkgutilsideas" has a description15:29
tilmanwiki page* ;)15:29
thrice`aah, gotcha15:30
thrice`I can't code, so I couldn't get much out of the updates15:30
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tilmani can't code either, but i got an army of monkeys that are hacking away constantly15:31
thrice`heh :)15:32
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guaquagrah, pitiful vls doesn't compile15:55
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Auge^urgs... alsa... renamed mixer controls... :/ my old config file is not usable...16:09
TRIBBBdate string for setting todays date? my clock seems to have gotten ahead of it self ...16:10
Auge^Music Playback Volume -> Synth Playback Volume and so on...16:10
TRIBBBand i cant seem to get the syntax right :(16:10
Auge^date MMDDhhmm16:11
Auge^Month Day hour Minute16:11
Auge^and you should be root.16:11
TRIBBBgot it ;)16:14
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HanTRIBBB, set up openntpd16:35
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Auge^ah, thats one thing i still miss... thx han =)16:35
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Auge^ntpd: unknown user _ntp16:38
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guaquadecided going for vlc in my multicast problem16:39
Han*rolls eyes*16:39
guaquavideolan developers seemed to think vls is bunch of crap :)16:39
Hannih! ;-)16:40
Han(not invented here)16:41
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MalevolenTwell, I guess no one has tried vserver with crux, I'm out18:11
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clare /quit "bye"18:20
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Romsterwhat is vserver?18:46
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