IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2006-08-31

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pitillohi all, good morning. If a package has an interesting README file to configure it, is a good idea to add it to a port? It has manuals too, but in the INSTALL file there is some info about configuring it.01:10
HanUse other ports as a reference for those kind of questions.01:14
pitilloHan, ok, thanks.01:15
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pitillowell, I can not find something similar I can suppose that it mustn?t be included.01:30
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pitillomike_k, finished nut port. If you have a bit of time and want to take a look Reviews and comments are welcome.01:59
mike_kpitillo: thanks. I hope, I'll take a look today...02:03
mike_kno footprint yet?02:03
mike_koh, it's hidden02:04
pitillomike_k, it?s hidden.02:04
mike_khmm, what makes it dependent on gtk stuff?02:06
pitilloummmm taking a look... I think nothing.02:08
pitilloI used the mge Pkgfile template... sorry. Changing it.02:09
mike_kyou've scared me a little02:10
pitillosorry :) I didn?t review the header.02:10
pitilloUpdated. But need to review depends.02:14
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bd2pitillo, "\" at the end of array is unneeded, btw. and do you really don't want to others read /usr/etc/ups*.conf ?02:28
pitillobd2, well, don?t understand very well what you say about the \. And there are some conf files that mustn?t be readed by others because there are passwords stored in it. I?ll take note of that and I?ll review it again.02:31
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pitillobd2, thanks for the comment :) Learning bit a bit.02:32
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bd2"\" at the end of source="...." is unneeded.02:47
pitilloah understand, I see other ports to put more than one source02:47
mike_kpitillo: my quick and very dirty, untested port:
mike_klike in alsa-driver port02:53
mike_kwe choose our hardware before building a port02:53
mike_kin case of nut this decrease the number of executable files a lot02:54
pitilloI?ll take a look, I was having lunch.03:29
blizzi want to build a crux based iso via a Makefile but it should work in any other linux distro, too - so i got to include pkgutils and ports somehow.. any ideas on that?03:33
pitillomike_k, NUT_DRIVERS= always has the same value? --with-drivers="all" (Sorry don?t understand the -z flag) Is your ups serial or usb based?03:34
rxiblizz: iirc there is a guide for making your own iso .. otherwise ask either jaeger or cptn03:35
mike_kpitillo: I haven't tested yet, but the first victim will be RS-232 based03:35
mike_kpitillo: [-z "$NUT_DRIVERS"] means "if $NUT_DRIVERS is empty"03:36
pitillomike_k, it?s easier to setup a serial ups than a usb. Not tried but read a lot about.03:36
pitillomike_k, ok, need more knowledge with bash scripting. :)03:37
blizzrxi, i had a look at this Makefile:
blizzit's already downloading some toolchain related stuff, kernel patches, building kernel and stuff. but now i need theports03:39
mike_kpitillo: so, for now, I'll use mine port =)03:39
pitillomike_k, I think is better than mine to use it with a serial ups :) Mine is usb and need to add the usb support :)03:42
mike_kpitillo: you'v missed $PKG in 'chown nut:nut /usr/etc/*'03:48
pitillomike_k, true, thanks :) Changing it.03:49
mike_kmaking ports as root might kill your system that way03:49
pitillotaking note. But the install-conf option don?t use $PKG.03:55
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pitillowell, missing the prefix.. changed it.04:15
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Husiois there grub package on CRUX install cd ?05:26
HusioI've found now, that it isn't05:26
cptnthen you probably have an old version05:27
Husioin handbook 2.2 --> if you plan to use GRUB (which is included in the ISO)...05:28
cptnincluded means that it's on the ISO05:28
Husiook, so if I've burn cd from this ISO, I don;t have it05:29
cptnit _is_ on the ISO05:29
cptnand the ISO is just a cd image05:29
Husioyes, I know it05:29
cptnwhatever's on the ISO will end up on your cd05:30
cptngrub in the ISO == grub on the cd05:30
HusioI know that05:30
pitilloHusio, did you installed grub? did you take a look into core? there is grub# on it...05:30
cptnHusio: then I probably missunderstood what you meant before05:30
Husiono, I'm only reading now.. but in handbook, there's info that there's only lilo05:31
Husionevermind ;)05:31
cptnthat would be wrong in the handbook then05:31
Husiothe last line in 3.205:32
cptn"If you plan to use GRUB (which is included in the ISO)"05:32
Husiothere's no *not* :|05:32
cptnthat line says, translated:05:33
cptn"GRUB is included in the ISO"05:33
* rehabdoll mounts his 2.2-cd05:33
cptnwhich means that it's there05:33
pitillowhen I read the Q and think to answer and then write it ... the Q is solved... xD05:33
HusioI've read it like : wchich is _not_ included :|05:33
cptnah, okay :-)05:33
HusioI'm probably blind or something :|05:34
rehabdollin /crux/core05:34
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Hancptn, pkginfo -o '/usr/lib/libstdc\+\'06:52
HanIf you don't \ the + pkginfo won't find the package.06:52
cptninterestingly, pkginfo -o /usr/lib/libstdc++. works06:56
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Haneven odder. :-)06:58
cptnHan: although the man page talks of a 'pattern', so I guess this was intended06:58
cptndoesn't make it more intuitive though :-)06:59
HanBloody annoying for scripting :P06:59
HanEven so... /usr/lib/libstdc++. should not work in that case.07:00
cptncan you file a bug?07:00
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HanI can. Will you fix it or will we have to wait for pli?07:00
cptnpli doesn't work on pkgutils anymore07:00
cptnso you'll have to wait for us :-)07:00
Han~% pkginfo -o libFLAC++.la07:02
Hanflac    -rwxr-xr-x      root/wheel      usr/local/lib/libFLAC++.la07:02
mike_kcptn: can you change the status of #94 to 'Assigned'? (to jaeger maybe)07:13
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pitilloare there designs of tool?s source? (sorry if this is a silly question but is better than try to understand the source directly)07:24
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pitillosome interesting IDE to do it?07:29
mike_kpitillo: I wonder if I got your question, but see for example  eclipse-sdk, kdevelop, gdb, ddd ports07:31
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pitillowell I?ll try eclipse, I used only to make some little apps in java. thanks for the answer mike_k07:32
mike_kyou are welcome07:33
pitilloI used eclipse with buej wich has a design that makes easier to understand source. Bit a bit :)07:35
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maromike_k: now you believe that netbsd sucks? ;P08:03
mike_kmaro: just reading on... but it does not mean the project sucks in general. Afterall - a great educational value =)08:08
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mike_kmaro: crux core group might be interested in reading that too...09:03
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pitillotrue, is a nice reading, may be they see the link and read it09:10
pitilloif I want to ignore a footprint of a one port, is there a way to setup in a config file or only by command parameters?09:16
cptnyou can set it in your pkgmk.conf09:17
cptnalthough that's a bit of a hack09:17
cptnat the time where pkgmk.conf is sourced, 'name' is already set09:17
pitillocptn, reading conf file and man but didn't find nothing09:17
pitilloonly keeping ports to be updated09:17
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pitillobut rereading it :) I thougth in E, that changes a lot. Keep it ignoring always the footprint or may be making a little script to update E and ignore footprints09:19
cptnyou can also set in in a the Pkgfile of course09:19
cptnneither of the two are pretty09:20
pitilloeasier that try touching pkgmk's source, but if it can be a interesting feature, source can be touched09:20
cptnwell, if you try to _read_ the pkgmk source you'll learn quickly that there's no need to touch it...09:21
blizzi'm trying to use crux for a livecd. downloading/building a toolchain and a patched kernel already works but i don't know how to build the ports now. the building process should also work on other distros so i most likely have to include pkgutils and ports.. any ideas?09:23
pitillo_read-understandig_ really I need to do it. Learning bit a bit. Thanks :)09:23
blizzi already had a look at the Makefile in svn09:23
cptnhow about making pkgutils a requirement for the build host?09:24
blizzcptn, i'm thinking about including it in the toolchain. but that would need a chroot/fakeroot environment then09:26
cptnany particular reason for building such a livecd?09:28
blizzyep, it has a quite special purpose. will boot into memory and do specific tasks then09:31
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pitillocptn, Is $TARGET understanded by pkgmk.conf?09:40
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cptnpkgmk.conf is a file09:45
cptnit doesn't 'understand' anything09:45
cptnjust do:09:46
cptnif [ "$name" = "someport"]; then PKGMK_IGNORE_FOOTPRINT="yes"; fi09:46
cptnor add .nofpcheck to all the directories, and check for that09:47
cptnor simply run pkgmk/prt-get with -fi...09:47
cptnerr, -if09:47
pitillocptn, thanks and sorry. :)09:47
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Hanif [ "$name" = someport ]; then PKGMK_IGNORE_FOOTPRINT=yes; fi09:54
cptnerr, yes, thanks09:54
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HanThe essence of learning shellscripting is to understand evaluation of quoting. ;-)09:55
cptnand the spaces around the expression within brackets09:55
Hanalso noteworthy.09:55
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blizzcptn, hmm. i think it's better to get the ports via rsync rather than the ports utility in this case..10:07
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mike_kcptn: any comments on task #91?
cptnmmmh, no strong feelings there10:17
cptnwhich packages benefit from this?10:17
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mike_kcptn: I can't recall now. It was some network bandwith measuring software(a port for which is I've lost) and some billing systems might want that...10:25
mike_kcrux is source-based, so why not to include that?10:25
cptnodd reasoning10:27
mike_kI'll try to find that particular app, and maybe some more10:28
cptnit appears to be some QoS thing10:29
cptnwhich I guess might be worth supporting10:29
mike_ksooner or later missing headers will rise that again10:29
cptnsnort maybe?10:30
cptnwell, it's not like we're removing them, it looks like an upstream thing, no?10:30
mike_knot snort10:31
mike_kupstream decided to split it in 'install' and 'install-devel' targets10:32
cptnah, I see10:33
mike_kper just took the first10:33
cptndidn't see that in the report10:33
cptnsounds reasonable then10:33
mike_kbut the nature of crux maybe wants the second one too =)10:33
mike_kthanks. Should I find the 'benefiting' apps for more reasonable change?10:36
cptnwell, not if it takes you more than 2 minutes :-)10:36
mike_k definitely wants that (no port yet)10:41
cptnlooks nice10:41
mike_kthere might be more apps10:41
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tilmansourcemage spies!10:49
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tilmanthose timidity soundbank ports should be renamed11:11
tilmanthe soundbanks/soundfonts aren't specific to timidity at all11:11
brointhemixtilman: do you remember hom much space does the whole x11r7 pack take?11:13
tilmandu -sh /usr/ports/x11r611:13
tilmanoh noes!11:13
brointhemixall the stuff installed i mean11:13
tilmani don't11:13
tilmanbut it's less than what x11r6 takes on your system11:14
tilmanif you write the script to do the math, i'll run it on my box11:14
tilman(get footprints for every installed xorg-* package, stat the files, add filesizes)11:14
brointhemixdo you remember if i have to compile anything special into the kernel to make X running?11:15
brointhemixi remember i have the /dev/agp11:15
guaquais there a program to do that already?11:15
guaqualike show the diskspace taken by a certain installed port?11:16
tilmanbrointhemix: per se, x doesn't require anything special in the kernel11:17
tilmanyou'll want 'input devices' support though11:17
tilmanso you get /dev/input/mice11:17
tilmanagpgart and drm are needed for screaming fast 3d (and 2d :D)11:17
tilmanyou might want to get the drm modules from git though (if you're using a radeon card)11:18
brointhemixi got teh mouse there already11:21
brointhemixand i got an daaaamn ooooold Matrox MGA so no fast graphics11:21
brointhemixonly screaming left :P11:21
* treach gives brointhemix some axel-grease11:22
treachbtw, speaking of graphics, tilman, what would you blame for this:11:23
brointhemixthe manufacturer!11:23
tilmanat least the Gxxx cards aren't that bad11:24
treachKeyboard input totally locked, mouse still moveable, but no iput apparently taken.11:24
tilmananything that can run quake3 should be able to do render stuff nicely i think11:24
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tilmantreach: in openbox? :D11:24
cptnthere's pkgsize in prt-utils to calculate the size of a package11:24
treachinitially scollwheel still moving between viritual desks, but after a few minutes that too fails.11:25
treachno, crux/openbox11:25
brointhemixtilman: what is EXA?11:25
treachit has happened twice here, but I'm not quite sure what to blame11:25
tilmantreach: openbox or no openbox? :P11:25
brointhemixi'm referring to the link you gave me11:25
tilmanbrointhemix: XAA successor. can speed up render (bling bling) well.11:26
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brointhemixi'm cool then, no such cutting-edge feats in my card's GPU :)11:27
tilmanwhat card do you have?11:28
treachtilman: ok, feels familiar. Sofar it has only struck here after many houers of uptime.11:28
brointhemixMatrox MGA or G10011:28
brointhemixa very od one, for sure11:29
brointhemixno radiator on the GPU :)11:29
tilmandunno whether G100 has a texture mangling unit11:29
tilmanyou'll need at least one to be able to accelerate render/compositing11:29
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tilmantreach: it just happened to me, too11:30
brointhemixi know i ran X6.9 there some time ago...11:30
tilman18:30 -> rdate run :x11:30
treachtilman: :/11:30
tilmanbrointhemix: yes, but it wasn't fast ;)11:31
brointhemixtilman: true, true :)11:32
tilmanwith a decent card and proper exa support, render will scream ;)11:32
treachtilman: I've disabled "AccelDFS" and recompiled openbox with less riced out settings since the last time. System has been up 1d18:32 since the last crash, so I guess I'll find out if that suffices, eventually.11:32
brointhemixbut i only need it to run with fluxbox and be able to handle firefox for webbrowsing11:32
tilmantreach: do you know that you can use magic sys-rq with the r key to unlock the keyboard?11:33
treachmight just be that I've been more carefull though.11:33
tilmanso afterwards you can alt-f1 to the console and restart x11:33
treachno, I didn't. Making a note..11:33
brointhemixtilman: i'll try to make wonders with my big box FX5200 when I learn the what's what with proper X configuration11:33
treachbut I guess I'll have to recompile the kernel for that. :p11:33
tilmantreach: acceldfs doesn't influence it. if acceldfs was bad, you'd screen screen corruption or a hard lockup :D11:33
treachtilman: I guessed so, but I thought since I wasn't sure what it did exacty, it might be a good idea to put it out of the equation.11:34
tilmani tried LOTS of things before i knew it was a plain wm bug11:35
treachmmh, X or wm are the two most likley pof imo, so that's where I started11:36
treach(pof -> point of failure)11:36
treachbut I guess it could have some relation to system load as well, since every time it's happened I've had lots of stuff happening.11:37
treachI'm not placing any bets on it though. :p11:39
tilmanthat hints at a timing issue again11:39
blizzis there a gnu make macro which could strip a kernel version string like into 2.6.17?11:43
tilmanjust sed11:43
treachtilman: migth be, I've noticed sometimes it takes quite a bit of effort to before it "gets" that I actually clicked "close" at the top of the window.11:44
blizztilman, hmm.. yep.11:45
treachblizz: there is always "cut" otherwise. :)11:50
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blizztreach, i always want to use as few backticks as possible :-) even managed to have a single makefile which recursively searches for sources and their dependencies11:57
blizzthats fun..11:57
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tilman_i have a feeling i didn't /quit in one of the irssi's o_O12:07
blizzobviously there are two tilmans ;-)12:08
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tilmanone is bad enough already!12:09
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bd2 and  - shit emerges...12:17
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* Han gawks at e1712:27
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treachnewsflash, netbsd is dying, Netcraft stunned! "We were just about to give up on that prophecy."12:33
treachThe rest of the world fails to care.12:33
tilmani care12:35
treachOk, I'll be back with an updated headline shortly. ;)12:35
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autopilotgood evening13:27
autopiloti have a little question about an audio problem i am having and wanted to know if anyone minds to help out13:28
autopilotthe thing is:13:28
autopilotI don't have any /dev/dsp or /dev/mixer.13:28
autopilotI don't have any /dev/sound devices13:28
autopilotI do use udev and it has got the following devices under /dev/snd but i don't know what they are or do13:29
autopilotcontrolC0  hwC0D0  pcmC0D0c  pcmC0D0p  pcmC0D1p  pcmC0D2c  pcmC0D2p  timer13:29
autopilotmy card is recognized with alsaconf, all the modules are loaded13:30
autopilotxawtv works properly, so does alsamixer13:30
autopilotbut xmms refuses to play13:31
autopilotany ideias please?13:31
autopiloti goggled around with no sucess13:31
pitillodid you try changing in xmms preferences, the alsa-plugin output?13:32
tilman /dev/dsp is an oss-compatibility device13:32
tilmansame for /dev/mixer13:32
autopilotpitillo i dont see where to do that13:34
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tilmanfor a start, run "aplay some_wave_file"13:34
autopilotinput plugins?13:34
tilmanif it plays stuff, alsa is working \o/13:34
tilmanautopilot: output plugins........13:34
autopilotbash-3.00$ aplay aic1993-07-09t04.wav13:37
autopilotALSA lib confmisc.c:670:(snd_func_card_driver) cannot find card '0'13:37
autopilotALSA lib conf.c:3479:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_card_driver returned error: No such device13:37
autopilotALSA lib confmisc.c:391:(snd_func_concat) error evaluating strings13:37
autopilotALSA lib conf.c:3479:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_concat returned error: No such device13:37
autopilotALSA lib confmisc.c:1070:(snd_func_refer) error evaluating name13:37
autopilotALSA lib conf.c:3479:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_refer returned error: No such device13:37
autopilotALSA lib conf.c:3947:(snd_config_expand) Evaluate error: No such device13:37
autopilotALSA lib pcm.c:2146:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM default13:37
autopilotaplay: main:547: audio open error: No such device13:37
autopilotbash-3.00# prt-get listinst |grep alsa13:39
tilmannfc, try google13:40
autopiloti will try to reinstall those packages13:41
autopilotanyways what is the default mixer then?13:41
tilmanor maybe not. dunno.13:43
tilmanyou should have only one anyway13:43
autopiloti mean there is no /dev/mixer nor /dev/dsp13:43
autopilotsorry for my bad english13:43
tilmanas i already said, these two are OSS devices, not alsa13:43
rehabdollinclude oss-emulation in your kernel13:43
tilmanthat won't fix alsa13:44
tilmanbut add another layer of complexity :>13:44
autopilotalsamixer works...i just dont know what device it uses...13:44
rehabdolli should really stop contributing to conversations which i just caught the last part of :)13:45
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j^2heey all14:04
tilmanyoyo j^214:04
j^2what's going on tilman ?14:05
tilmanfighting with my graphics card14:05
j^2that's what i did this morning14:05
tilmansowly losing my sanity14:05
j^2now i've moved to attempting to learn how to use perl to parse out data from logs14:05
j^2how do i do that? any sites that you might have?14:06
tilmanuse regular expressions ;D14:06
tilmanand ruby!14:06
qidruby is a better perl than perl14:06
j^2btw, i SUCK and programming14:07
qidbecause it's not insane14:07
tilmanj^2: then the poignant guide is for you :)14:07
tilmanit's fun to read14:07
tilmanaimed at beginners14:07
qidhas cartoons in it14:08
tilmanand foxes!14:08
tilmanthis question no verb14:12
tilmanprt-get install ruby .14:12
j^2thanks :-P14:12
tilman1.9 is the development version...14:13
j^2i'm actually on a ubuntu machnie14:13
qidI'm sure it's in the ubuntu package manager14:14
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DapperHello all...22:49
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DapperOK, I'll jump right in... Loved Crux but can't get sane to compile. Everything else I've needed is behind me. sane won't compile and I don't know why...22:52
DapperI'm not sure why mu username won't show. I have this problem in Crux but not in Slackware...22:58
qidan error message would be helpful22:58
qidwon't show where?22:58
DapperFirst had to know if someone... ANYONE was actually here...22:59
Dapperchown: cannot access `/usr/ports/opt/sane/work/pkg/var': No such file or directo ry23:00
Dapperchown: cannot access `/usr/ports/opt/sane/work/pkg/var/lock': No such file or di rectory23:00
Dapper=======> ERROR: Building '/usr/ports/opt/sane/sane#1.0.18-1.pkg.tar.gz' failed.23:00
qideveryone that's here is actually here, irc is asynchronous, you can ask a question and wait23:00
Dapper-- Packages where install failed23:00
DapperNo Hi... Welcome or anything...23:01
guaquaif sane port doesn't build anything in /var/lock or /var you can comment those lines in the pkgfile and see what happens. at least you will get rid of that error.23:04
qidyou'll get a footprint mismatch then probably23:05
DapperThanks guaqua. I'd thought of that but needed to check with experienced Crux users.23:05
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qidI notice it's being configured with --enable-locking, you'd think that would create this lock directory23:06
Dappersane is the only package thast complains this way.23:06
DapperMy name's "Dapper" by the way. Not sure why my name won't show up here...23:07
qidit does23:07
DapperYou see "Dapper?"23:07
guaquait shouldn't change any permissions there or anything so you should be fine with commenting out the lines23:07
qid00:07 < ~Dapper> You see "Dapper?"23:07
guaqua07:07 < Dapper> You see "Dapper?"23:08
DapperI'm not seeing it...23:08
DapperGood y'all can... :)23:08
qidconfigure your irc client then23:08
DapperIt works perfectly at Linuxforums.23:08
DapperAnd under Slackware. In Crux, my name won't show...23:09
qidhow your irc client is configured has nothing to do with what distro you're using23:09
qidor what irc server you connect to23:10
DapperIt's configured REGARDLESS of distro...23:10
DapperAs long as you're seeing my name it's inconsequential if I see it.23:11
qidyou're the one that brought it up :-p23:12
DapperAnyway qid, you've been a HUGE help... :P Thanks guaqua! :)23:13
guaquano problem23:16
guaquacrux works mostly in the simplest ways23:17
guaquaso don't be intrigued to try, you are mostly right23:17
Dappersane is the only package that's "Whooped my ass" in Crux. All others compiled without incident. :)23:18
guaquathat's good23:18
DapperI've recompiled the kernel a time or two... ;)23:19
guaquathat's an everyday thing ;)23:20
guaquai'm speaking engrish23:20
guaquadon't be afraid to try i should've said23:21
guaquawell, anyway...if it's hard to compile a kernel in a distro - not for me :)23:21
DapperCrux kernel is easy to re-compile.23:21
DapperSo far...23:22
guaquait's a vanilla kernel23:22
guaquaupdating is a breeze too23:22
guaquacd /usr/src && wget [newest sources] && tar xvvzf [newest sources] && rm linux && ln -s [newest sources] linux && cd linux && make menuconfig && make && make modules_install && cp ... && nano -w /etc/lilo.conf && lilo && reboot23:24
DapperI'm from Slackware background guaqua so please forgive me... But I'm not understanding how to start daemons from boot in Crux...23:25
guaquanano -w /etc/rc.conf23:25
DapperThat script I'll stow...23:25
guaquaand add their names to the list23:25
guaquathe order is there too23:25
guaquamake all is the command you should give to the kernel, not just make...cos then you need make modules too23:26
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DapperBeen using make all.23:26
DapperI've added to /etc/rc.d but they don't start. So I must configure the .conf file to "tell" it what to start?23:27
DapperThe Rosetta stone...23:32
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