IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2006-10-14

xsachawhy does my gcc keep freezing while compiling kde? :( 100% cpu00:30
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xsacha$ make love01:24
xsachamake: don't know how to make love. Stop.01:24
xsacha:(01:24
Hanxsacha, http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanb/documents/topic.html#questions01:32
xsachayep, tried all that01:33
xsachaim looking through source now to figure out what's wrong, no one else seems to have same problem01:34
xsachai think i've fixed it02:03
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maro_tilman: there?02:09
tilmanmaro_: just for a few seconds02:42
maro_tilman: ok, I'll hang on02:59
maro_:P02:59
maro_just wanted to tell you that you can kill the freetype bci patch as well as the fontconfig autohinter symlink with freetype 2.203:01
maro_see http://borkware.net/~mark/freetype-patented.png and http://borkware.net/~mark/freetype-vanilla.png - both are without the autohinter enabled in fontconfig03:02
xsachawow there's a big difference between them03:05
xsachathe -patented one looks best imo03:05
xsachaseems smoother and there isnt big bulged in certain parts of the letter like -vanilla03:05
xsachabestcontast-patented looks best overall03:06
maro_xsacha: actually tilman currently forces the use of the autohinter in fontconfig anyway :/03:06
maro_(see the fontconfig Pkgfile)03:06
xsachaneither of those pics had autohinter anyway03:07
xsachak03:07
xsachai dont have fontconfig :)03:08
maro_xsacha: thanks for your feedback though, I can't really decide which one I like the best :)03:08
xsachajust the readme, ill get it03:08
xsachai have an LCD monitor btw03:08
maro_could be related to that03:08
xsachabestcontrast and subpixel smoothing of the patented one looks almost identical03:09
xsachabut entirely different on -vanilla03:09
maro_yeah03:09
maro_how does subpixel smoothing look with vanilla on your lcd?03:10
xsachawell it's fuzzy03:10
maro_:/03:10
xsachalike ClearType fonts03:11
xsachaall those -vanilla ones seem to have exaggerated edges too, like the letter 'O' -- it is very fat on the sides but small on top/bottom03:12
xsachai think that works in Best shapes and Best contrast but it doesnt look good for monochrome or subpixel03:13
xsacha(im looking at the subpixel 'a','c','g' and 'p' with one fat edge -- doesn't look very good :S03:14
maro_:(03:16
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spocker!seen vkd03:16
jizzbotspocker: I have not seen vkd.03:16
-MelOne- spocker, I think I don't know vkd yet.03:16
spockerdamn right u do MelOne you wanker03:16
spockerhas anyone seen vkd?03:16
rxi@seen vkd03:16
clbrxi: vkd was last seen in #crux 20 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 11 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <vkd> back in a bit...03:16
jizzbotrxi: I have not seen vkd.03:16
rxinot for ages03:16
spockerhis domain is gone03:17
spockeri emailed him a while ago and it bounced03:17
Romsterdamn 'back in a bit' 20 weeks is a bit O_o03:23
Romsteri'd hate to see 'awhile'03:24
xsachahmm what is the latest KDE on KDE4.x tree?03:27
xsachaor is it still 3.8?03:27
xsachacant find it, guess not out yet03:29
xsacha3.5.5 released today though :)03:29
xsacha3 days ago*03:29
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Romsterooo i'm still on 3.5.403:49
Romsteri'll have to compile and test that out03:49
Romsterlater back to work04:09
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tilmanmaro_: now05:59
tilmanmaro: now05:59
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maro_:D08:35
maro_http://www.loosetooth.com/Numo/pics/elbow_wingding.jpg08:35
maro_http://www.loosetooth.com/Numo/pics/080106.jpg08:35
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fratehi! I had some problems with installation of gimp: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/SnJYiW51.html08:50
fratehow should I fix it?08:51
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maro_frate: RTFM08:56
fratehaha :D08:56
maro_you can either ignore the footprint or update the footprint08:57
frateok, thanks. i should have read more.. :)08:58
maro_probably what happened is that you had libmng installed while the gimp maintainer didn't08:59
maro_no problem :)08:59
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RedShiftehlo10:51
RedShifthow big should my /usr be?10:51
RedShiftserver usage10:51
treach"big enough"10:55
rxiabout yay big10:58
RedShifthmmm10:58
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maro_RedShift: how much space do you have available?11:09
RedShift18 gb11:10
maro_and is there any reason you want to keep it on a seperate partition?11:10
RedShiftI'll think I'll just leave a big /, easier that way11:10
maro_crux isn't very well tested on such a setup11:10
maro_yeah11:10
RedShiftoh security11:10
maro_for example, /etc/adjtime is a symlink into /usr on crux11:11
RedShiftI would like a / with the distro on it, than a /usr/local for all local programs like the webserver, php, etc, custom built stuff. And ofcourse a /home for all data storage11:11
RedShiftthen upon upgrading the base system I wouldn't have to worry about /usr/local and it's configuration files. And /home ofcourse, mounted with noexec for security reasons11:12
treachsplitting out /tmp and /var is a good idea as well IMO.11:12
RedShifttreach: yeah but 18gb isn't alot and splitting out /var would mean less space for /home11:12
maro_personally I only use one partition for everything pkgutils has control over11:13
treachindeed. I suppose it boils down to what you value the most.11:13
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RedShiftwhat mailserver do you guys use?11:14
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RedShiftI use postfix atm, because it works with mysql11:14
RedShiftbut I have to deal with this sasl stuff, which I don't really understand11:14
maro_RedShift: exim on my workstation, relaying through a postfix box on my lan11:15
RedShiftmy current setup "works" (along with a bunch of error messages in my logs)11:15
RedShiftI just need virtual users11:15
treachprobably easier to fix that, than changing your mailserver. :-/11:15
RedShiftif they would be stored in MySQL it would even be better11:15
RedShifttreach: possibly, but postfix is huge11:16
maro_it's not huge, it's modular ;)11:16
treachwell. The other ones are huge PITAs IMO..11:16
maro_wietse did an analysis of the code size at a conference I attended11:17
treachlet's see.. what are the alternatives? Sendmail? Qmail? I don't think you'd prefer any of those..11:17
maro_it pretty much boiled down to "postfix isn't becoming bloated"11:18
RedShiftI was thinking about courier11:18
RedShiftone software package that does email delivery and provide pop3/imap access11:18
RedShiftthe documentation is crap though11:19
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RedShiftit's more like a story how mail sucks and you should just go do something else11:20
treach:-)11:20
treachapparently they don't do http anymore either.. :p11:21
RedShiftjust noticed11:21
RedShifthmmm11:23
RedShiftmaybe I can use postfix and dovecot11:23
RedShiftlooks pretty simple to configure11:24
RedShiftI don't really get why unix mailservers are that difficult11:24
RedShiftmaybe it's time I write my own11:27
maro_or perhaps you can talk Han into implementing one in sh11:29
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RedShiftlol that would be a mess11:31
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rehabdoll /usr on my server is 1.6gb12:25
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jjpkThose Debian folk know how to really cause quite the stir about everything. :D :D14:40
aonhuh?14:41
jjpkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel14:41
aonah14:42
jaliI'm siding with Mozilla on this one.15:10
jaliI'm happu to see they stood their ground on that issue.15:11
jalis/happu/happy/15:11
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RedShiftjjpk: they were forced by the mozilla folks15:55
jjpkVery rarely do you hear about forced changes.15:57
jjpkBesides, Debian is usually the one imposing anything upon itself, rather than an outside force.15:57
RedShiftyes indeed15:58
RedShiftremember the mp3 rant? :-D15:58
jjpkmp3 rant? Haven't heard about this one.16:00
jjpkMy point being that there is a high premium for certain beliefs and standards. :p16:00
jaliI wish I had stayed in today and installed Crux on my laptop..16:02
jaliI had plenty of time.16:02
jali:(16:02
jaliI just wish the base iso was more up to date.16:03
jali:x16:03
RedShiftthere's still time16:03
jaliIt's been a long time since I installed Crux.16:03
jaliI had the same install for a long time.16:03
jaliand then took a break from computers.16:03
jaliSo I need to re-read the handbook again.16:03
RedShiftI don't understand what userfriendly means to average users16:04
RedShiftif you compare the handbook of crux to the handbook of <insert "userfriendly" distro>, crux is a piece of cake16:05
jalio.o16:05
jaliI didn't say it wasn't.16:06
jaliI just forgot all the port commands.16:06
jalilol16:06
RedShiftno, but while we are on the subject of installing16:06
RedShiftalot of users complain it's difficult to install :\16:06
jaliI hate 'user friendly' distros..16:06
jaliUbuntu would be nice if I didn't know what linux was.16:06
RedShiftjali: I tried ubuntu once16:07
RedShiftI was searching for xine and xmms16:07
RedShiftwouldn't play mp3's16:07
RedShiftsame story with fedora16:07
jaliYeah.16:07
RedShiftrpm disaster16:07
RedShiftdumped it, went back to archlinux16:07
jaliIt seems distros are in a possing contest to see who can be more 'free'.16:07
jaliRedShift: haha, i put Arch on this laptop16:08
jalididn't last a day16:08
RedShiftseriously?16:08
RedShiftlol :-D16:08
RedShifthow come16:08
jalitheir Xorg build clashes with the flgrx drivers16:08
jaliit won't do direct rendering16:08
jali:|16:09
RedShiftoh?16:09
RedShiftthat radeon stuff?16:09
jaliYeah.16:09
RedShiftI think there's something in the wiki for that16:09
jaliMy laptop has an ATI chip..16:09
RedShiftah16:09
jaliIt's really not my #1 choice.16:10
jali:\16:10
jaliBut if you get an intel laptop.16:10
jaliYou almost always get shafted by ATI16:10
RedShiftLOL16:10
RedShiftgetting shafted16:10
RedShiftthat's a new one16:10
RedShiftyeah true16:10
RedShiftI always buy nvidia16:10
jaliBut I'd rather have intel and ATI than AMD and nvidia.16:10
jaliSadly..16:10
jali:\16:11
jaliIntel + NVidia = Love.16:11
RedShiftyeah the new conroe's kick ass16:11
jaliMy laptop is only Core Duo.16:11
jaliBut it's nice.16:11
RedShiftI've been an AMD fan since the athlon xp's, but now the core 2 duo offer better performance16:11
RedShiftI only buy what's fastest and most compatible16:11
jaliI used AMD during the Pentium 4 debacle.16:12
RedShiftso always nvidia graphics card, the nvidia drivers work perfectly for me16:12
jaliPentium D and Pentium M kicked ass though.16:12
jaliRight now..16:12
jaliAMD makes cheap chips.16:12
RedShiftpentium d?16:12
RedShiftnah16:12
jaliIntel makes good chips.16:12
jali:P16:12
RedShiftpentium m? yes :-D16:12
RedShifteverything based on the netburst architecture is crap16:12
jaliPentium M is great because it's based on my favorite processor ever.16:12
jaliThe Pentium 3.16:12
jali:D16:12
RedShiftindeed16:13
jaliPentium III is seriously just.. yummy.16:13
jaliI've considered buying a used laptop.16:13
RedShiftI was just going to tell you that the pentium m is a further developed p316:13
jaliJust so I could have a P3.16:13
jali;)16:13
jaliI follow intel.16:13
RedShiftactually I have a p3 laptop16:13
RedShiftvery decent one :-D16:13
jaliooo16:13
jalinice!16:13
RedShiftcompaq armada m700, 850 Mhz with 320 megs of ram16:13
RedShiftthe battery's broken though :(16:14
jaliCompaq made good hardware until mid-2003-ish16:14
RedShifthad it for a long time, very expensive machine when I bought it16:14
ssimonjali: fglrx is on every system a pain ;)16:14
jaliIsn't that when HP bought them?16:14
jalissimon: I will get flamed for this.. but Ubuntu had it working great.16:14
ssimonjali: mine here on arch too16:14
jaliExcellent rendering speeds too.16:14
jalissimon: I got AIGLX errors and defaulting to MESA.16:14
RedShifthttp://teole.jfouffa.org/2001/04/20/DCP_0035.JPG16:15
jaliAnd I was just trying to run Openbox.16:15
jalilol16:15
jaliRedShift: Pretty. :D16:15
ssimonjali: then you made something wrong :) used the kernel26 package?16:15
RedShiftbig advantage of it, is the portability (it's pretty light and small), has a great screen, plus all the hardware works16:15
jalissimon: of course.16:15
RedShiftwith some fiddling with powermanagement, standby and hibernate work16:15
ssimonjali: crazy, nevermind. on my thinkpad it works16:16
jalissimon: The xorg.conf was right.. it was only a slightly modified version of the one I used in Ubuntu.16:16
* jali shrugs16:16
jaliUbuntu lasted less than a day.16:16
RedShiftanother one of my favorite laptops is the IBM thinkpad R5116:16
jalilol16:16
ssimonjali: give arch a try ;)16:16
jalissimon: I did.16:16
ssimonelse use crux ;)16:16
RedShiftthey sure cost alot of money but these things are just... devine16:16
ssimonRedShift: same laptop here ;)16:16
jalissimon: I've been putting off installing Crux because I'd spend atleast 2 hours upgrading the base iso.16:17
jali:\16:17
ssimonnormal16:17
jaliI switched from Arch to Crux back in the days of 2.1 and 2.016:17
jaliI'm feeling gassy about Crux because honestly, I have no idea all what I need to compile into the kernel for my laptop's hardware.16:18
jaliI'm used to consulting kernel documents before buying hardware for a PC I build.16:18
jalilol16:18
RedShiftjali: what laptop is it?16:19
ssimoncrux is one of the best distributions I've seen, but it needs more staff, I think :)16:19
jaliRedShift: Dell Inspiron E1505/640016:19
ssimondell... *giggles*16:19
RedShiftssimon: I agree. I want to use it on my servers but I'm affraid that someday the crux team will quit16:19
jaliRedShift: Per already left.16:19
RedShiftjali: oh sorry I don't give support on DELL laptops :p16:20
jaliRedShift: :P16:20
RedShiftjali: yeah I know, once the "main guy" stops, the rest grinds to a halt16:20
jaliI don't understand the Dell grief, honestly.16:20
jaliThey're no better or worse than any other PC manufacturer.16:20
RedShiftjali: oh had some troubles in the past with their very very very cheap-ass computers which followed no standards except for the processor socket16:20
RedShiftstuff like that16:21
jaliI replaced my HardDrive and keyboard on this thing very fast and easy..16:21
* jali shrugs16:21
ssimonRedShift: I kicked crux from the box, because I've less time atm to fix update issues, if the developing and staff grows, I'm very fast back to crux :)16:21
jaliit's built like a fucking tank16:21
jaliI can't stand binary distros.. especially Debian based ones.16:21
jaliTo install gvim.. you get sent to a package called 'vim-gnome' which required libgnomeui, esound, etc.16:22
RedShiftI tried debian once16:22
RedShiftfound the wizard too much16:22
RedShiftbut then when I rebooted16:22
jaliAnd not to mention the omg-wtf-lib2-dev2-+cvs39230930393.deb shit16:22
RedShiftbefore the system was booted, I get another wizard dumped in my face!16:22
jalilol16:22
RedShiftasking me to configure an emailserver!16:22
jalihaha16:22
jaliyeah16:22
RedShiftso that was the end of debian for me16:23
ssimon$ sudo pacman -S gvim16:23
ssimonTargets: vim-7.0.118-1 ruby-1.8.4-4 gvim-7.0.118-116:23
jaliruby?16:23
ssimonwhat have you said? :)16:23
jaliwtf16:23
jaliI like ruby but seriously.16:23
jaliWtf?16:23
RedShiftwow16:23
RedShiftthat's gotta be a mistake?16:23
jaliYou're not kidding.16:23
RedShiftpasted it in #archlinux16:23
* ssimon takes a look in the PKGBUILD16:24
jaliI disagree with a lot of package maintainer's decisions and ended up with an insanely large /opt/abs/local folder.16:24
jalilol16:24
jaliJust to rebuild their mistakes.16:24
ssimongvim has ruby support16:24
jaliIt has "support" for a million languages..16:25
RedShift"<klapmuetz> yes, it is built with --enable-rubyinterp"16:25
ssimon"--enable-rubyinterp"16:25
jaliThat's stupid.16:25
jaliReally stupid.16:25
jaliSounds like the vim maintainer has a ruby hardon and decided to force it on everyone else..16:25
jaliBAD.16:25
RedShiftmaybe he gets a hardon from ruby :o16:25
jali:P16:25
jaliI love Ruby, I think it's a great language. But if I were to package gVim. I'd totally disable that.16:26
jaliI might enable for my local use.16:26
RedShiftgreat language?16:26
jaliBut that's it.16:26
RedShiftI think it sucks16:26
RedShiftit's waaaaaaay to loose16:26
* jali shrugs16:26
RedShiftand slow16:26
jalilol16:26
ssimonstop flaming!16:26
ssimoni have news!16:26
jalilolwhat16:26
jali:o16:26
ssimon$ sudo pacman -S vim16:26
ssimonTargets: vim-7.0.118-116:26
ssimonclap your hands!16:26
RedShiftlol!16:27
jaliSo it's only the gtk interface that relies on ruby?16:27
* jali shakes his head16:27
RedShiftI'm off16:27
jaliI swear to god I hope the Arch development team drops dead.16:27
RedShiftbye, thanks for the nice conversation16:27
RedShiftciao16:27
jalil816:27
jali;p16:27
ssimonciao RedShift :)16:28
jaliI see what's up with their Xorg package.16:29
jaliIt enables that XGL stupid shit.16:29
jali"it is because you use the new xorg package which uses AIGLX rather than XGL which is not supported by fglrx yet. This can be solved by adding the following lines to /etc/X11/xorg.conf, which disable AIGLX which triggers the old XGL driver:16:29
jali"16:29
jaliThat's exactly why I hate binary distros.16:29
jaliIf it CAN be enabled, they enable it.16:29
ssimonthen you need a well-featured and active source distro16:30
jaliThe only ones I can think of are..16:30
ssimondrop your tears jali and cast a spell on sourcemage, lol :)16:30
jaliGentoo, Crux, SourceMage, etc.16:30
jalilol16:30
jaliI hate SourceMage.16:30
jaliIt's entirely written in BASH.16:30
jaliCall me when they have a C based package manager.16:30
jalimkay16:30
jaliNot to mention.16:32
jaliSourceMage sounds like it was developed some Harry Potter fangirl.16:32
jaliby16:32
ssimonLOL16:32
jaliWell, it does..16:32
jaliHm.16:33
jaliI just remembered a Linux distro..16:33
jaliI'm struggling to remember the name.16:33
jaliA friend of mine uses/used it.. a lot of the XFce guys use it..16:33
jaliAh!16:33
jaliLunar16:33
jaliI wonder if it's any good.16:34
ssimonthey have teh evil mutt-sidebar patch!!1116:34
jalio_o16:34
jaliwho does/16:34
jali?16:34
ssimonthey are the new maintainers16:34
jaliwho is they?16:35
* jali confused16:35
ssimonok, I finished with laughing about your sentence16:35
jaliD:16:36
jaliCareful, I'm sick.16:36
ssimon:D16:36
jaliI'll cough on you!16:36
ssimonlike you dude :D16:36
jalilol16:37
jali;p16:37
jaliHha.16:37
jaliLunar has a lot in common with SourceMage..16:38
jaliThey are both Sorcerer forks.16:38
ssimonoO16:38
jalihttp://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=lunar16:38
jaliLunar sounds less like a Harry Potter movie so I might try it out instead.16:39
jaliHah, their last release was around the time of Crux's last release.16:40
jali:D16:40
ssimonheh16:40
ssimonhaha, I like you, you are funny :P16:40
jali:P16:41
jaliyou should hang around #crux-ot16:41
jalithe official off-topic crux channel.16:41
jaliI founded it when I got in trouble here a long time ago.16:42
jali:D16:42
aonyou're galisus?16:47
jalidepends on why you're asking..16:47
aonthought so :)16:48
jalilol16:48
jaliyo, aon16:48
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jjpkhah17:17
jjpkThe pattern repeats itself.17:17
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drfreezehi20:16
drfreezeanyone booted crux from a drive on a soekris net4801?20:17
rehabdollmotherboard?20:47
rehabdolloh, some special thingy20:49
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