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| aon | Han: how about changing the e-mail address format in your contrib ports? | 01:18 |
|---|---|---|
| Han | Why? It's my email, unobfusticated and all. What's wrong with that? | 01:19 |
| aon | nothing, i guess, although the guidelines say differently | 01:21 |
| Han | ok | 01:22 |
| mike_k | is there a requirement that Pkgfile: $name = port_directory_name? | 01:52 |
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| mike_k | as prtverify does not like that... $name must much dirname | 03:27 |
| mike_k | http://crux.nu/portdb/?q=_&a=search gives all ports as result. Searching 'lab_' gives all ports containing 'lab'. Is it ok? | 03:57 |
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| aon | okay | 06:51 |
| aon | screen is both in opt and contrib | 06:51 |
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| Han | aon, check the comments in the contrib version | 07:33 |
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| treach | jaeger: btw, gaim hit beta5 (!) the 10th | 08:03 |
| jaeger | ok | 08:05 |
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| AstonV12 | hello | 08:09 |
| jaeger | hello | 08:09 |
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| AstonV12 | anybody can suggest a nice minimalist window manager? | 08:10 |
| jaeger | what degree of minimalism are you after? | 08:10 |
| RyoS | evilwm, pekwm.. | 08:11 |
| AstonV12 | let's start with very minimalist | 08:11 |
| RyoS | evilwm | 08:11 |
| jaeger | evilwm | 08:11 |
| jaeger | otherwise, there are plenty available: ion3, ratpoison, windowlab | 08:12 |
| RyoS | pekwm ._. /me <3 it | 08:12 |
| AstonV12 | wow...I should check for all of them! | 08:13 |
| aon | cwm too | 08:13 |
| AstonV12 | and...what about beryl? I mean..what kind of wm is it? | 08:13 |
| jaeger | it's a compositor, like compiz | 08:13 |
| treach | wmaker is also nice, and ofc fvwm once you get it right... which might be something of a Project (TM)... :P | 08:13 |
| jaeger | meant for the eye-candy crowd | 08:13 |
| AstonV12 | you would suggest it or still quite unstable for a not very expert user like me? | 08:14 |
| jaeger | I would not suggest it at all unless you want to play with Xgl/AIGLX | 08:15 |
| AstonV12 | ok...I'll not try it, already had lot of problems with aiglx | 08:15 |
| treach | if you're "not very expert" stick with the old mature stuff. | 08:16 |
| AstonV12 | and what about blackbox?I mean..compared to the ones you suggested me (ewm,ion3,evilwm,pekwm,windowlab...) | 08:16 |
| AstonV12 | yes...better to use old mature stuff or i'll certainly get in trouble! | 08:17 |
| treach | why not give it a try? | 08:17 |
| treach | if it doesn't work, there are probably at least another 100 you could try. | 08:17 |
| treach | s /work/work out for you/ | 08:18 |
| AstonV12 | anyway....I'll have a look for all the ones you suggested and than I'll see... | 08:19 |
| AstonV12 | thank a lot anyway! | 08:20 |
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| j^2 | hey all | 08:53 |
| Romster | hi j^2 | 08:56 |
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| * deus_ex plays armagetronad. | 09:23 | |
| * deus_ex sux | 09:23 | |
| deus_ex | :) | 09:24 |
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| deus_ex | wtf, audacious is using more cpu than FF atm.weird... | 09:31 |
| aon | my audacious just crashed | 09:31 |
| treach | "autroucius media player". | 09:32 |
| deus_ex | aon: Mine is still ok, but eats cpu cycles as crazy. | 09:32 |
| RyoS | works fine here | 09:32 |
| RyoS | btw anyone checked out the latest svn? it should have mlayer support | 09:33 |
| deus_ex | treach: Yes, we know, you hate it :) | 09:33 |
| treach | No I don't. I was just not quite happy with the current version. | 09:33 |
| deus_ex | RyoS: It always works fine *somewhere*. | 09:33 |
| treach | no, Romster has no problems, that's proof that there is nothing wrong with it. | 09:34 |
| deus_ex | So it must be PEBKAC than... | 09:34 |
| treach | deus_ex: btw, how much cpu are you talking about? | 09:35 |
| deus_ex | s/than/then | 09:35 |
| deus_ex | 20-26 percent, according to htop | 09:36 |
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| treach | I assume you're not running it on a 486.. :P | 09:36 |
| deus_ex | It jumps up and down. | 09:36 |
| treach | I'd say that's way too much, probably time to kill it. :-) | 09:37 |
| deus_ex | No, celeron2@2ghz | 09:37 |
| treach | it's using ~0.3% here (barton 2500) | 09:37 |
| deus_ex | Wow.with vbr mp3, it uses ~20%, but now I'm playing cbr track, it's down to 1.3.wtf? | 09:39 |
| treach | hm, can't repat there here. | 09:40 |
| treach | blah blah.. "that here" | 09:41 |
| deus_ex | Yeah, yeah :) | 09:41 |
| treach | vbr mp3 0.3-0.7% here | 09:41 |
| deus_ex | Hm.I'll play vbr track again. | 09:42 |
| * deus_ex does | 09:43 | |
| deus_ex | Same thing happens. | 09:44 |
| deus_ex | Time to kill it. | 09:44 |
| treach | "It's a good day to die". | 09:44 |
| treach | :-) | 09:44 |
| deus_ex | Nah, doesn't help, still the same. | 09:45 |
| treach | odd. | 09:45 |
| jaeger | I haven't used audacious much yet but I find it amusing my audacious install can't play anything | 09:46 |
| deus_ex | Maybe the track is somehow b0rken. | 09:46 |
| RyoS | jaeger: you need the plugins | 09:46 |
| jaeger | RyoS: yeah, I'm building them now | 09:46 |
| RyoS | check out my port (i always wanted to say that) | 09:46 |
| jaeger | just find it funny that there's nothing by default :) | 09:46 |
| jaeger | yours is the one I'm using | 09:46 |
| RyoS | ._. | 09:47 |
| aon | hmmh | 09:48 |
| deus_ex | jaeger: Did you got my mail with scorched3d diff? | 09:48 |
| aon | audacious just hangs every time i change the song | 09:48 |
| jaeger | deus_ex: yes, and it's updated | 09:48 |
| aon | ah, that was because of the last.fm plugin :) | 09:49 |
| deus_ex | jaeger: Ok, I havent run ports -u today. | 09:49 |
| aon | ... | 09:49 |
| aon | and back to xmms i go | 09:49 |
| deus_ex | audacious ftw | 09:50 |
| aon | xmms does the same thing | 09:50 |
| aon | cmus seems to work | 09:51 |
| treach | xmms does the samething but brings cruft | 09:52 |
| deus_ex | last fm client won't work here(looks for sound devices, and just hangs). | 09:52 |
| jaeger | RyoS: looks to me like audacious-plugins is missing taglib as a dep | 09:52 |
| RyoS | let me check | 09:52 |
| treach | jaeger: I've got a port that works.. ;-) | 09:52 |
| jaeger | no big deal, already building RyoS' | 09:53 |
| aon | deus_ex: yeah, it's off already | 09:54 |
| RyoS | jaeger: you are right, i add this asap | 09:54 |
| aon | guess i shouldn't mess with gui players at all :) | 09:54 |
| * treach wonders if anyone except himself uses his repo, despite his heavy disclaimers.. | 09:55 | |
| jaeger | I don't, though I'd be willing to if there were something in it I needed :) | 09:55 |
| * deus_ex steals^Wuses ports from portdb | 09:57 | |
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| pitillo | treach, wich one is yours? | 09:59 |
| treach | pitillo: it's not listed, but some of them has been refered to by other people here. | 09:59 |
| treach | my gphoto2 port for instance. | 09:59 |
| pitillo | treach, ummm can you give me a link to take a look? | 10:00 |
| deus_ex | treach: Will you join contrib? | 10:01 |
| treach | http://hem.bredband.net/treach/files/crux/misc/treach.httpup | 10:01 |
| treach | and NO. I won't join anything.. | 10:01 |
| treach | I'm simply not able to keep things up to snuff as well as I'd like to. | 10:01 |
| jaeger | heh | 10:02 |
| pitillo | (only a opinion... if you had tons of stuff, is quite difficult to do that, but if you start with some of them, it can be easy to make good updates of them) more people doing little things instead of less people doing tons of things... | 10:04 |
| treach | pitillo: I'm not really well, for a start. and then there is the time issue, the hackishness, and the identity issues. better just leave things as they are. | 10:06 |
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| deus_ex | treach: I hope you get well soon, man. | 10:11 |
| Romster | i guess if anyone wants to they can take trenches ports and do them up/maintain them and throw them in contrib. | 10:13 |
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| deus_ex | :D | 10:14 |
| jdolan__ | 8) | 10:14 |
| treach | deus_ex: thanks, I'm hopefully working on it. :-) | 10:14 |
| treach | "trenches" indeed. FTR, I'm not buried yet. | 10:15 |
| aon | heh | 10:15 |
| deus_ex | :) | 10:15 |
| deus_ex | jdolan: Do you have any mixes on djmixtape.net ? | 10:18 |
| deus_ex | I dug up some pretty awesome mixes there. | 10:19 |
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| pitillo | treach, sorry, don´t know that. I hope you´ll be better soon. | 10:20 |
| deus_ex | 700 bucks for video card...that's just insane, imho | 10:22 |
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| treach | deus_ex: just wait for the powerbill. :P | 10:23 |
| deus_ex | treach: Heh.And it has 5 star rating, no less. | 10:24 |
| treach | :P | 10:24 |
| treach | afk food | 10:24 |
| pitillo | deus_ex, have you got a link to some mix? | 10:25 |
| Romster | video cards should throttle its memory and gpu when its not being used for anything more than everyday stuff, only to use full gpu when doing full graphics. | 10:27 |
| deus_ex | pitillo: Check out http://djmixtape.net/?page=search | 10:29 |
| deus_ex | I can recommend this:http://djmixtape.net/?page=mixinfo&mixid=2047 | 10:30 |
| pitillo | deus_ex, I tried it and advanced search too (didn´t work) to look by name. | 10:30 |
| deus_ex | pitillo: Advanced search is b0rken for some time now, try simple search, by genre. | 10:31 |
| pitillo | deus_ex, I thought to search by your name. :) downloading it. I will listen it this afternoon. :) | 10:32 |
| deus_ex | pitillo: I don't have any mixes of my own, I'm only a consumer :) | 10:34 |
| deus_ex | Sorry for the confusion. | 10:34 |
| * deus_ex makes noise, not music. | 10:35 | |
| pitillo | deus_ex, don´t understand it, sorry. :) | 10:40 |
| * deus_ex is puzzled | 10:42 | |
| deus_ex | pitillo: Just listen to the mix, ok ? :) | 10:43 |
| deus_ex | Enjoy. | 10:43 |
| pitillo | deus_ex, sure. This afternoon I will listen it. :) | 10:43 |
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| deus_ex | pitillo: Just play it and pump up the volume.Tribal techno is *good*. | 10:47 |
| Romster | cool i should download soem mixes to listen to :P | 10:48 |
| Romster | deus_ex, i just ignore things that don't make scence, the sentance that is :) | 10:49 |
| Romster | i got about 40GB of music here to listen too aswell and radio streams | 10:49 |
| pitillo | deus_ex, sure you listen jdolan mixes... very good imo. | 10:49 |
| jaeger | audacious' 'jump to file' function doesn't work well | 10:49 |
| treach | any special provocation needed? | 10:51 |
| deus_ex | rapidshare.de/***/How.To.Seducing.Women.With.Your.Home.Computer.rar | 10:51 |
| RyoS | jaeger: http://rafb.net/paste/results/JQi8th48.html <- would this be an usable startup file for a port? | 10:51 |
| deus_ex | I've got to d/l this :) | 10:51 |
| RyoS | sorry for highlight, it was actually meant for all | 10:52 |
| treach | mmh. my main complaint about audacious is that it really doesn't work well with fvwm. :-/ | 10:52 |
| deus_ex | pitillo: Thanks for reminding me to check out jdolan's mixes. | 10:52 |
| jaeger | RyoS: what does it accomplish? not familiar with audtty | 10:53 |
| RyoS | audtty is an ncurses client for audacious | 10:54 |
| RyoS | starting it headless will just start the core without gui | 10:54 |
| deus_ex | jaeger: What's the problem?. | 10:54 |
| RyoS | audtty then connects to the core and you have a nice ncurses gui :) | 10:54 |
| jaeger | deus_ex: the problem with what? | 10:54 |
| jaeger | RyoS: ah. well, seems ok to me | 10:54 |
| deus_ex | audacious 'jump to file' | 10:55 |
| RyoS | great :) | 10:55 |
| jaeger | doh... still some texture problems with the 96xx nvidia drivers | 10:55 |
| treach | welcome to the joys of using an "alternative" os. :/ | 10:56 |
| jaeger | deus_ex: oh, the fact that it doesn't search properly | 10:56 |
| deus_ex | define 'properly'. | 10:58 |
| deus_ex | iirc, it works same as in winamp, so if winamp is b0rken, so is this ;) | 10:59 |
| jaeger | an example: I have a 2-disc set of Infected Mushroom - Converting Vegetarians ripped - the album name exists in all the id3 tags as well as the filenames but if I try to jump and type in "converting" (case doesn't seem to matter) the search window is completely blank | 11:00 |
| jaeger | ah, no, I'm wrong, it *is* case-sensitive | 11:00 |
| jaeger | which winamp isn't | 11:01 |
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| Romster | jaeger, damn | 11:02 |
| jaeger | might have to feedback that, heh | 11:03 |
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| jaeger | or just send in a patch, I guess | 11:03 |
| deus_ex | jaeger: When I search for either 'dj' or 'DJ', it finds same tracks. | 11:04 |
| deus_ex | Same for 'incubus' vs 'Incubus'. | 11:06 |
| jaeger | awesome, taking a screenshot killed audacaious :) | 11:06 |
| aon | hehe | 11:06 |
| aon | cmus seems to be still running :) | 11:06 |
| deus_ex | btw, 'Converting Vegetarians' <----great title | 11:07 |
| aon | the album isn't really bad either iirc | 11:07 |
| deus_ex | aon: that's psy trance? | 11:08 |
| aon | something like that, yeah | 11:08 |
| jaeger | deus_ex: http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/images/audacious-cs1.png | 11:09 |
| jaeger | http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/images/audacious-cs2.png | 11:09 |
| treach | jaeger: Something seems to be amiss with your setup.. | 11:09 |
| treach | maybe it doesn't like gnomes. ;-) | 11:09 |
| deus_ex | aon: I prefer trance/techno/d'n'b myself, but I'll check it out. | 11:09 |
| jaeger | or XFS | 11:09 |
| aon | don't worry, at least one person i know claims that the newer albums aren't psytrance at all :) | 11:10 |
| deus_ex | jaeger: weird | 11:11 |
| jaeger | what filesystem do you use? | 11:11 |
| treach | jfs.. | 11:12 |
| deus_ex | ext3 | 11:12 |
| jaeger | I'll test it on ext3 | 11:12 |
| deus_ex | aon: Ok :) | 11:12 |
| jaeger | nope, same results for me on ext3 | 11:14 |
| Romster | btw what was that ultimate fs we wouldn't see on linux again, was gonna show a friend i can't fidn the wikipedia page. | 11:15 |
| jaeger | zfs? | 11:15 |
| RyoS | anyone wants to try my audtty port? :) | 11:16 |
| deus_ex | Romster: reiserfs4? | 11:17 |
| aon | i think we already have seen it on linux | 11:17 |
| deus_ex | But we will not see it again, since main dev is in jail? | 11:18 |
| aon | ... | 11:18 |
| Romster | deus_ex, no it was like sun microsystems or something striped tree like FS that never fragamented etc. that didn't have a open licence | 11:18 |
| Romster | and it had features like LVM2 has | 11:19 |
| Romster | dunno about that deus_ex | 11:19 |
| Romster | as its opensource reiser could be taken over by anyone.. | 11:19 |
| jaeger | http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/ | 11:19 |
| aon | and it still doesn't stop existing even if the dev is in jail | 11:19 |
| deus_ex | aon: it never was in vanilla kernel, iirc, so it doesn't really count, imho | 11:19 |
| Romster | or everyone will use the last stable version till he gets back to it | 11:19 |
| Romster | jaeger, hmm that wasn't it but i did look at that one in my search. | 11:22 |
| Romster | someone mentained it here along time ago, not sure if it'l be on the archive as the log bot wasn't on then? | 11:22 |
| tilman | mentioned or maintained? | 11:22 |
| Romster | and i didn't log it :/ | 11:22 |
| tilman | are you taking bets? ;) | 11:23 |
| Romster | mentioned | 11:24 |
| Romster | heh no | 11:24 |
| Romster | i just wanna find the damn thing again to show a friend.. | 11:24 |
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| Romster | i should of bookmarked it, soemone I think it was here said it wasn't licenced to be aviable for linux to use. but the FS had alot of features i wanted to show a friend. not unless it was in #linuxhelp i might be confusing myself. | 11:29 |
| tilman | what are you looking for? | 11:30 |
| aon | some fs that seems like zfs but isn't it and isn't available on linux | 11:32 |
| Romster | a filesystem that i read about it was either here or in #linuxhelp i so can't remember it had features like LVM etc, it wasn't open licensed which is a shame, i can't for the life of me find it on google or wikipedia.. | 11:33 |
| treach | sounds pretty much like zfs to me. | 11:33 |
| tilman | :D | 11:33 |
| tilman | yeah, it probably is | 11:33 |
| Romster | had a restricive licence that would make porting it to linux a copyright violation, but i'm trying to find the site so i can show a friend about it. | 11:34 |
| treach | maybe it's just the glue that made the name and the object disconnect? | 11:34 |
| Romster | i looked and its got a FUSE project in the works :/ | 11:34 |
| treach | zfs is under CCDL | 11:34 |
| Romster | dunno if that was it? | 11:34 |
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| tilman | "bad licensing" is another argument for it being zfs | 11:34 |
| Romster | heh | 11:34 |
| tilman | DTrace would be fun to have in linux | 11:35 |
| treach | well, they've got to protect whatever interesting stuff they come up with. | 11:35 |
| tilman | but because of cddl evilness, they may not include it :'( | 11:35 |
| treach | Can't say I blame them. | 11:35 |
| Romster | i'll keep looking around when i'm bored but i'm still shure zfs wasn't it but i could be on a wild goose hunt :/ | 11:35 |
| treach | They really need any incentitive they can find to get peple to use solaris imo.. | 11:35 |
| tilman | some days ago i saw that nvidia provides binary drivers for solaris | 11:36 |
| tilman | made my jaw drop a bit | 11:36 |
| treach | why? | 11:36 |
| tilman | Wouldn't have expected that at all | 11:36 |
| Romster | O_o | 11:37 |
| treach | a lot of workstations around the world runs solaris.. and nivia sells workstation class graphics cards.. | 11:37 |
| treach | *nvidia* | 11:37 |
| treach | so if they want into the industrial CAD business they pretty much have to provide the drivers. :) | 11:38 |
| tilman | i thought industrial CAD was all windows these days | 11:39 |
| treach | nope.. | 11:39 |
| tilman | heh, i finally got this weird ass Gouranga spam, too | 11:40 |
| treach | never underestimate the inertia in the industrial world. :-) | 11:40 |
| tilman | true | 11:41 |
| tilman | at the company i work at, most of our customers still run windows 98... | 11:41 |
| tilman | power supplier companies | 11:42 |
| treach | ugh. | 11:42 |
| treach | that's bad. The companies I've been at usually at least uses NT4. | 11:42 |
| RedShift2 | ugh windows 98 | 11:44 |
| RedShift2 | now that is one bad piece of software | 11:44 |
| tilman | it's especially fun cause microsoft doesn't support it anymore | 11:44 |
| treach | NT4 isn't brilliant, but at least it doesn't crash if you give the computer an odd look. | 11:44 |
| RedShift2 | I have some customers too that run win98, I'm really pushing to get them to upgrade | 11:44 |
| tilman | the latest .net framework crap doesn't work on nt4 either ;) | 11:44 |
| RedShift2 | I'm not supporting win98 anymore, otherwise I'd lose all my hair | 11:44 |
| treach | who cares about .NET, really? | 11:44 |
| RedShift2 | .net is nice | 11:45 |
| tilman | treach: the industry | 11:45 |
| treach | A bunch of hot air from what I've seen in actual use, and a few tv commercials.. | 11:45 |
| RedShift2 | I had hoped it would stop that wild growth of non-conforming windows programs | 11:45 |
| RedShift2 | .net is nice though | 11:46 |
| RedShift2 | I would recommend it to every windows dev | 11:46 |
| tilman | it makes me want to cut myself every now and then | 11:46 |
| tilman | actually quite often | 11:46 |
| tilman | ;) | 11:46 |
| treach | as oposed to java, which makes you want to do.. what? ;) | 11:47 |
| RedShift2 | didn't they opensource java? | 11:47 |
| tilman | they plan to afaik | 11:47 |
| treach | supposedly they did | 11:47 |
| * tilman doesn't like the term 'open source' | 11:47 | |
| deus_ex | pitillo: Some more music I stumbled upon :http://rapidshare.de/users/9KB2J | 11:48 |
| Romster | yeah i thoguht anything serious was windows, other than servers being linux. | 11:48 |
| tilman | OMG | 11:48 |
| tilman | java under gpl v2 | 11:48 |
| tilman | omg omg omg omg | 11:48 |
| Romster | heh | 11:48 |
| tilman | O M G | 11:48 |
| Romster | ewww | 11:48 |
| tilman | jdolan: omg omg! | 11:48 |
| deus_ex | "Java is Free and the Flat Earth Society is recruiting" | 11:48 |
| tilman | now java is a whole lot nicer than it was yesterday | 11:49 |
| ningo | all of a sudden | 11:49 |
| ningo | I suddenly liek javs <3 | 11:49 |
| treach | you mean as oposed to .NET, which was nicer yesterday? ;-) | 11:49 |
| tilman | no | 11:49 |
| ningo | I will frenzy-code in java now | 11:49 |
| tilman | c# is a cheap copy of java | 11:50 |
| treach | tilman: I was just kidding. :-) | 11:50 |
| tilman | of course i knew that! | 11:50 |
| tilman | just watned to play along | 11:50 |
| tilman | ;) | 11:50 |
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| treach | interesting though. Poor miguel, redundant again.. >:-) | 11:51 |
| tilman | maybe he'll switch horses now :D | 11:51 |
| treach | I doubt that. He's always been a sucker for MS-tech. | 11:51 |
| tilman | yeah? | 11:52 |
| treach | afik, yes. IIRC he even applied for jobs at ms, more than once. | 11:52 |
| treach | I think it fell on the "green card" issue or something. | 11:53 |
| treach | Don't ask for sources, it's a long time since I read about it, just a vauge recollection. | 11:53 |
| tilman | np, i don't care about miguel and/or gnome all that much | 11:54 |
| treach | neither do I, but you are free to compare the old gmc with win95 ;-) | 11:54 |
| tilman | it's been 5 years since i ran gmc | 11:55 |
| tilman | was it better or worse than windows 95's explorer? | 11:55 |
| treach | let's make it 6. At least! :D | 11:55 |
| tilman | 5 years and 4 months maybe! | 11:55 |
| tilman | :P | 11:55 |
| treach | better/worse wasn't my point, I just meant they feel very similar, at least imo. | 11:56 |
| tilman | oh | 11:56 |
| treach | also, bonobo etc was heavily inspired by MS OLE iirc. | 11:56 |
| tilman | yes | 11:57 |
| tilman | i thought about that when you mentioned 'ms tech' before | 11:57 |
| treach | I bet it's all out there in some mail archive I can't be bothered to find. :-) | 11:57 |
| tilman | gotta admit, OLE/radioactive x isn't all that bad | 11:57 |
| * tilman hides | 11:57 | |
| treach | from who's point of view? ;-) | 11:58 |
| treach | s /'// | 11:58 |
| tilman | it works reasonably well | 11:59 |
| tilman | being able to write some stuff in c++, and some boring gui stuff in visual basic *can* be pretty neat | 12:00 |
| tilman | ;) | 12:00 |
| tilman | i'll shut up now before someone gets weird ideas about me | 12:00 |
| treach | :-) | 12:00 |
| aon | wtf: http://youmortals.com/suse/compiz-quinn/vids/akamaru-dock.mpeg | 12:03 |
| Romster | tilman, too late... j/k dude :P~ | 12:04 |
| treach | aon: yay, looks like that famous productivity everyone using gnome seem to boast about. ;-) | 12:05 |
| aon | :) | 12:05 |
| treach | btw, cmus is quite nice, but it would probably gain on using sqlite or something. | 12:06 |
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| tilman | maybe someone should write an ncurses frontend to xmms2 | 12:07 |
| tilman | ;D | 12:07 |
| RyoS | why xmms2? ;o | 12:07 |
| treach | why not | 12:07 |
| treach | ? | 12:07 |
| aon | treach: dunno, i usually have quite a short playlist | 12:08 |
| RyoS | there is one for audacious :> | 12:09 |
| treach | aon: heh, I usually operate in the library view. :P | 12:09 |
| aon | tilman: x2cp/nxmms2? | 12:10 |
| aon | me too | 12:10 |
| tilman | i think all of the current ncurses clients are unmaintained | 12:11 |
| treach | not sure how you define a "short" playlist, but mine is 138h or something. :D | 12:12 |
| tilman | RyoS: xmms2 has a pretty neat media library | 12:12 |
| tilman | and soon it will have a pretty neat way to define playlists on speed ("collections") | 12:12 |
| tilman | ;) | 12:12 |
| RyoS | tilman: ok, agreed on that | 12:13 |
| aon | treach: mine's currently one album :) | 12:14 |
| treach | :-) | 12:15 |
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| teK | ¼/2 | 12:16 |
| teK | wups.. | 12:16 |
| tilman | maybe x2cp/nxmms2 are actually maintained | 12:16 |
| tilman | i was thinking of two others | 12:16 |
| aon | they don't seem very featureful, though | 12:18 |
| pitillo | aon, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ | 12:18 |
| tilman | yeah, i meant XMMS2Curse and xmms2curses :D | 12:20 |
| rehabdoll | pretty cool pitillo.. gestures rock | 12:29 |
| treach | http://aelsi-fvwm.fr.nf/english.html <- how to get creative with a wm.. | 12:34 |
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| rehabdoll | nice fonts | 12:35 |
| pitillo | nice clock :D | 12:47 |
| treach | looks pretty cool, imo, but it makes me feel woefully incompetent. :P | 12:48 |
| treach | also, it makes me question how much sparetime that guy has. :D | 12:50 |
| pitillo | and shade method is a bit simply, how can make diferences between 2 shaded windows?... like the r/l shade, but without info about the window is quite difficult, imo. Can be interesting to dev the side shade with the top bar, and not only make top shades in other wm. | 12:51 |
| treach | don't shade multipel windows on the same viritual desk, maybe. :) | 12:52 |
| thrice` | doesn't that defeat the purpose of shade? :) | 12:55 |
| treach | of course it does. That's why I said maybe. :P | 12:56 |
| pitillo | or differents shades (ff top shade, other app r/l shade...) | 12:56 |
| treach | well, I use the titlebar to get info about what happens in the window while it's shaded, so I'd keep it. :-) | 12:57 |
| treach | (for instance cmus puts info about what's currently playing, etc.) | 12:58 |
| deus_ex | Based on threads on nvnews forum, nvidia 9629 is badly b0rken(lirc, glxinfo, various games/apps, monitor etc. problems/issues).I can't wait to try it :) | 12:59 |
| * treach thanks $DIETY for his old trusty radeon 9000. | 13:00 | |
| deus_ex | :D | 13:00 |
| treach | does everything I want/need, and no broken proprietary drivers to deal with. | 13:01 |
| tilman | \o/ | 13:01 |
| treach | indeed. | 13:01 |
| deus_ex | what is 'gimmick'? | 13:03 |
| treach | special useless feature. | 13:04 |
| rehabdoll | i heard that matrox had some "opensource" drivers out with one of their boards.. but that it was not really free | 13:04 |
| tilman | cheap stuff to attract the masses | 13:04 |
| tilman | rehabdoll: want me to elaborate on that? ;) | 13:04 |
| deus_ex | (apart from being codename for arch linux 0.7.2) | 13:05 |
| rehabdoll | feel free to :) | 13:06 |
| treach | deus_ex: something like having a firewire connector on your mb when you have no such devices. | 13:06 |
| tilman | xfree86's mga driver needs a proprietary "hal" module to be able to use "advanced" features like mergedfb ("twinview" in nvidia land) and dual head | 13:07 |
| tilman | maybe that's what you mean | 13:07 |
| rehabdoll | matrox_driver-x86_32-src-4.4.0.tar.gz | 13:07 |
| tilman | not sure about parhelia | 13:07 |
| rehabdoll | but then a standard EULA.. | 13:07 |
| tilman | ah | 13:07 |
| rehabdoll | http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/corpo/support/drivers/driverInfo.php?id=144 | 13:07 |
| tilman | yeah, they added non-free stuff there | 13:07 |
| Romster | ffs something is up with my isp or the ML | 13:08 |
| Romster | <crux@lists.crux.nu>: connect to lists.crux.nu[217.25.252.140]: Connection | 13:08 |
| Romster | timed out | 13:08 |
| Romster | Reporting-MTA: dns; sv11.per.eftel.com | 13:09 |
| Romster | Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; connect to lists.crux.nu[217.25.252.140]: | 13:09 |
| Romster | Connection timed out | 13:09 |
| Romster | like how can that be so and i jsut now got the bounced e-mails | 13:10 |
| deus_ex | treach: So, archlinux-0.7.2 a.k.a 'gimmick' = 'cheap stuff to attract the masses, full of special useless features'? ;) | 13:11 |
| treach | undefined reference to `XRenderFindStandardFormat, XListPixmapFormats, XFree, XCreatePixmap hmm... | 13:12 |
| treach | deus_ex: apparently. | 13:12 |
| deus_ex | That sounds like Win0ws Vista... | 13:12 |
| treach | tilman: do you know where those functions are supposed to be found? | 13:12 |
| tilman | XFree is very basic stuff (libX11.so) | 13:13 |
| tilman | so it seems something's really strange there | 13:13 |
| treach | they all ara as far as I can find out.. | 13:13 |
| tilman | what port/package? | 13:13 |
| treach | yeah. | 13:13 |
| treach | it's my own slightly modded firefox. | 13:14 |
| tilman | hah | 13:14 |
| treach | but it's not much different. | 13:14 |
| treach | besideds, it used to build.. | 13:14 |
| tilman | are you on x11r7 or x11r6? | 13:14 |
| treach | x11r7 | 13:15 |
| tilman | can you post the diff to firefox? | 13:15 |
| tilman | both source code and pkgfile | 13:15 |
| treach | there isn't much to it. I added a few configure options, and that's it. | 13:16 |
| tilman | can you post the compiler output then? | 13:17 |
| tilman | the line that results in the error | 13:17 |
| treach | it's what I posted above plus collect2: ld returned 1 exit status | 13:18 |
| treach | make[3]: *** [libgklayout.so] Error 1 | 13:18 |
| tilman | i need the gcc call | 13:18 |
| tilman | or, check that it includes "-lX11" | 13:18 |
| treach | looking for it.. :P | 13:18 |
| treach | it appears to be related to cairo. | 13:19 |
| tilman | blame it on the cairo | 13:19 |
| treach | I feel like it, but is it reasonable? | 13:20 |
| tilman | firefox builds without your modifications? | 13:20 |
| treach | I'm just about to try again with the cairo stuff commented. but it did build in the past, *with* the cairo stuff.. | 13:21 |
| treach | it feels like cairo changed, except that it's refering to fairly basic x stuff, if I get things right. | 13:21 |
| tilman | maybe it only links to `pkg-config --libs cairo` | 13:23 |
| tilman | it should probably link to `pkg-config --libs cairo cairo-xlib` | 13:23 |
| tilman | that's just a wild guess though | 13:24 |
| treach | hmm. apparently someone has enabled -fvisibility=hidden in the firefox build.. | 13:24 |
| tilman | maybe it's automatically done on gcc4 | 13:24 |
| tilman | would make sense! | 13:24 |
| tilman | (if the code is prepared for it) | 13:24 |
| treach | that's a pretty big if though. :P | 13:24 |
| tilman | if you send me the diffs, i'll take a look | 13:26 |
| treach | I'll try without the cairo stuff first, it'll take a while. | 13:27 |
| tilman | okay | 13:27 |
| treach | but I haven't been hacking on firefox, it's just a few more switches for configure. | 13:27 |
| tilman | i see | 13:28 |
| treach | (that I thought made sense.) | 13:28 |
| tilman | :P | 13:28 |
| treach | hmm, firefox picks up sqlite3 if you've got it, or does it ship with that build in as well? o_O | 13:29 |
| tilman | cool, that openbox bug struck again | 13:30 |
| tilman | it's been a long time! | 13:30 |
| treach | ah, must feel like meeting an old friend again then. | 13:31 |
| tilman | treach: hum, you aren't building firefox 2, are you? afaik the sqlite stuff is to come with firefox 3 | 13:31 |
| treach | one that constantly wants to borrow money.. | 13:31 |
| tilman | ;p | 13:31 |
| treach | I'm building ff2 | 13:31 |
| tilman | cool, ff2 restored my session | 13:32 |
| Romster | treach, look up on the output and see if its missing a library something.so | 13:32 |
| Romster | i had missing libs before :/ | 13:32 |
| RyoS | is contrib-old unmaintained? | 13:32 |
| treach | Romster: If I'm missing libs, why did it build the first time? | 13:32 |
| treach | when ff2 had been out for a week or two? | 13:32 |
| treach | tilman: yeah, that's one of the good things about it. there are a few annoyances as well, so I guess it evens out. | 13:33 |
| Romster | treach, then your not missing libs unless it now needs an aditional lib for a extra option? | 13:35 |
| Romster | fx2 i was told was the geek name for firefox, as ff is for final fantasy. | 13:36 |
| Romster | RyoS, yes afaik | 13:36 |
| Romster | treach, what extra configure options btw? | 13:38 |
| Romster | care to paste them so i can mess around myself | 13:38 |
| treach | --enable-system-cairo --enable-svg-renderer=cairo , I think those are the ones which cause problems. Too early to tell for sure yet. | 13:42 |
| Romster | ah yeah svg is sweet i should try them out. | 13:43 |
| tilman | oh crap | 13:46 |
| tilman | just deleted stuff by accident | 13:46 |
| tilman | crap crap crap | 13:46 |
| aon | we should have Recycle Bin | 13:48 |
| tilman | yeah ;) | 13:48 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aon | 13:48 | |
| rehabdoll | http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/11/BloodInk.jpg | 13:49 |
| Romster | prologic does have that trash port, but i've not touched it it looks too dangerious. | 13:50 |
| mike_k | Romster: but we can not see prologic himself ( | 13:51 |
| prologic | it's not dangerous at all | 13:52 |
| prologic | very usefull - saved my ass a number of times | 13:52 |
| Romster | i mean the port not james himself lol | 13:53 |
| Romster | libtrash | 13:54 |
| prologic | it works great - highly recommended | 13:54 |
| Romster | lol i've got hes attention. | 13:54 |
| Romster | i read the readme file highly dangerious if not setup right :P | 13:55 |
| Romster | i think tilman needs it more than me :P | 13:55 |
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| prologic | yes but obviosuly I've set it up right :) | 13:59 |
| prologic | or I'd not have made a port of it | 13:59 |
| prologic | I only say that because in testing and creating the right set of config files, I did screw up something major :) | 14:00 |
| Romster | true | 14:00 |
| Romster | and lost half your filesystem with it? | 14:01 |
| prologic | yeap :) | 14:01 |
| treach | that's reassuring. | 14:02 |
| tilman | very | 14:03 |
| treach | it might save your butt if you get configure it right, otherwise it'll trash your system. "No thanks". | 14:03 |
| prologic | heh | 14:04 |
| prologic | I just tinkered with the config file a bit too much | 14:04 |
| prologic | the author's defaults work fine | 14:04 |
| treach | I guess it's one way to stay with a "small elite community" ;D | 14:05 |
| Romster | :D | 14:07 |
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| treach | btw, it appears the cairo related stuff indeed *was* the culprit, it built fine this time. | 14:13 |
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| * deus_ex is seriously considering buying radeon video card | 14:26 | |
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| * ningo is seriously considering shooting himself into the head | 14:28 | |
| tilman | got a gun? | 14:28 |
| * deus_ex hands ningo a shotgun | 14:28 | |
| deus_ex | Shotgun is traditional weapon of self destruction :) | 14:29 |
| ningo | well, you're an expert I see | 14:29 |
| ningo | those are usually rare to find | 14:30 |
| ningo | life expectancy is quite short... | 14:30 |
| deus_ex | Hemingway, that guy from Nirvana... | 14:30 |
| tilman | kurt cobain was murdered buy his wife | 14:32 |
| tilman | everybody knows! | 14:32 |
| deus_ex | ningo: far from being an expert on the subject, but it is logical:you can't miss, and you get the job done. | 14:32 |
| treach | tilman: sure it wasn't IRS? | 14:32 |
| deus_ex | tilman: she naged him, so he killed himself? | 14:32 |
| tilman | sorry, IRS rings a bell, but i don't know which one | 14:32 |
| mike_k | Han: are you going to import your p5-* ports to contrib? | 14:33 |
| Han | ports -u contrib | 14:33 |
| deus_ex | IRS = Irish dRunken Slayers? | 14:34 |
| deus_ex | (lame, I know) | 14:35 |
| tilman | internal revenue service? | 14:35 |
| ningo | international rude service? | 14:35 |
| ningo | as found in trains, hotels, etc... | 14:35 |
| treach | tilman: yeah. the guys who nailed al capone. :P | 14:35 |
| tilman | # | 14:35 |
| tilman | # IRS is a song by the band Guns N' Roses that may be included on the forthcoming Chinese Democracy LP | 14:36 |
| tilman | HAHAHA | 14:36 |
| mike_k | Han: oh, was playing with git/gitweb, didn't notice that. thanks. (btw, pushing to git in the same time is like a russian rullete) | 14:36 |
| ningo | there's a chinese democracy lp? | 14:36 |
| tilman | nope | 14:36 |
| deus_ex | 'forthcoming' for what, 10 years now? | 14:36 |
| tilman | "forthcoming" | 14:36 |
| tilman | "maybe eventually forthcoming (HAHAHAHA)" | 14:37 |
| Han | mike_k, indeed, I had to push after every add. | 14:38 |
| Han | well now I know for the next time ;-) | 14:39 |
| mike_k | Han: I decided to make three commits in one push - and your push broke my tree =( | 14:39 |
| Han | sorry :-} | 14:40 |
| Han | http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitFaq#head-a1f9a3e511e0b866d788d7cb600637a9b976a994 | 14:41 |
| Han | does that help? | 14:41 |
| Han | % grep + /usr/ports/contrib/.git/remotes/origin | 14:41 |
| Han | Pull: +refs/heads/master:refs/heads/origin | 14:41 |
| Han | Pull: +refs/heads/2.2:refs/heads/2.2 | 14:41 |
| mike_k | tried that somewhen, that time the sequence was different. Than jue's mail, tilman's reply, ContribHowTo modification relaxed me. | 14:42 |
| tilman | it won't help if you have conflicts though | 14:43 |
| tilman | then you _will_ need to merge | 14:43 |
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| tilman | treach: if you patch mozilla/layout/build/Makefile.am to force inclusion of "-lX11 -lXrender" it might work | 14:46 |
| mike_k | Han: you've hide a huge commit in "abiword: initial release" =P thats why I didn't notice p5-* | 14:47 |
| Han | indeed, that's what I noticed as well. | 14:47 |
| Han | Does anyone want to take over my abiword port? It's a bitch to maintain for me. especially since I never use abiword. | 14:48 |
| mike_k | tilman: I pulled/pushed, made a few commits (while han made another push), tried to pull - got "...does not fast forward". What were the supposed steps than? | 14:49 |
| Han | mike_k, so it's better to remove the + chars and use git fetch, git rebase origin, git push origin | 14:50 |
| treach | tilman: ok, interesting, I'll put it on my list. :-) | 14:50 |
| Han | I just lost my changes after git pull origin | 14:50 |
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| tilman | treach: let me look for the proper fix ;p | 14:50 |
| treach | better worry about git ;-) | 14:51 |
| tilman | mike_k: tbh, i'm not sure | 14:52 |
| Han | I don't quite understand your remark treach | 14:52 |
| treach | Han: that can depend on your ignorelist. :-) | 14:52 |
| Han | oh | 14:52 |
| treach | s can/might | 14:52 |
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| mike_k | Han: removed them ('+') long time ago; fetch, rebase resulted in your commit being lost in my tree. this all is just too tricky or I am too old. | 14:54 |
| tilman | there is a problem in the contrib repo on crux.nu | 14:54 |
| Han | http://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=ports/opt.git;a=shortlog;h=2.2 is nice to bookmark as well | 14:54 |
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| tilman | better hold off on committing to your local contrib clone | 14:54 |
| tilman | and i'm delighted to say that han cannot read this | 14:54 |
| tilman | :D | 14:54 |
| Han | mike_k, I just did a git pull origin and it's fine. | 14:55 |
| Han | errr s/opt/contrib/ in the previous url | 14:57 |
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| mike_k | Han: I am not quite shure if ports in contrib might duplicate (even with security holes removed) core/opt ones. not only screen being in such state... | 15:01 |
| tilman | i thought about that, too | 15:01 |
| Han | the screen one is not really important, though I am pretty upset that jue removed the root-p patch from tar! | 15:02 |
| tilman | good that you filed a bug | 15:03 |
| Han | oh wait. it's still there, but they removed the comments :-\ | 15:06 |
| tilman | and it wasn't jue either | 15:06 |
| tilman | maybe i did it just to piss you off | 15:06 |
| * treach watches tilmans performance behind the mirror glass. :D | 15:08 | |
| Romster | han rpm2targz is already in core :) | 15:08 |
| Han | Oh right, I only checked with files in opt =) | 15:08 |
| sepen | hi! I re-write my findexternaldeps: $ svn co svn://mikeux.dyndns.org/scripts/trunk . | 15:09 |
| Han | for i in *; [ -d /usr/ports/core/$i ] && echo $i | 15:09 |
| sepen | Im trying to write a tool for find external deps that aren't on core,opt or contrib repos, the aim is doing a tool for check contrib ports candidates | 15:10 |
| mike_k | tilman: can you close bugs # 115, 100, 92? | 15:11 |
| tilman | let me have a look | 15:11 |
| Han | Romster, but my version is much better. :P | 15:11 |
| mike_k | sepen: if it's only based on Pkfiles, footprints, etc analysys - there already exist one. prtverify. | 15:13 |
| sepen | mike_k, look at diffs->>> $ prtverify /usr/ports/sepen/blender | 15:15 |
| sepen | $ findexternaldeps.sh /usr/ports/sepen/blender/ | 15:15 |
| sepen | External deps for blender are: libjpeg,ode,openal,fmod,smpeg,ftgl,scons,openexr | 15:15 |
| sepen | prtverify returns my blender port OK, xD | 15:15 |
| mike_k | sorry, no svn installed atm ( | 15:16 |
| prologic | http://shortcircuit.net.au/~prologic/downloads/getlibdeps | 15:17 |
| prologic | I think my script does a similar job | 15:17 |
| sepen | browse at http://mikeux.dyndns.org/websvn/listing.php?repname=sepen+scripts&path=%2Ftrunk%2F | 15:17 |
| sepen | mm | 15:18 |
| Han | Romster, I removed the duplicate ports, except for pkgutils, ports and rpm2targz since I thing they really add something. and they were in the old contrib as well. | 15:19 |
| sepen | prologic, nice! but had you obtain some estrange experience with '# Depends on:' and '# Depends:' lines? | 15:20 |
| sepen | not all ports have the same dep header | 15:20 |
| prologic | sepen, not sure how much my script differs from yours | 15:21 |
| prologic | but mine just tries to find out what libs and essentially what ports a binrary depends on | 15:21 |
| mike_k | sepen: seems "prtverify -m missing-deps -c ../core -c ../opt -c ../contrib blender" does the job | 15:21 |
| prologic | usefull to correctly fill in the "Depends On" | 15:22 |
| sepen | mmm mike_k thanks | 15:22 |
| sepen | prologic, try my bash script if you want, works fine | 15:22 |
| prologic | I think as mike_k said, yours just does what prtverify can do already :) | 15:23 |
| sepen | yes, prtverify really is nice! | 15:23 |
| Romster | han then shouldn't you inform and send the patch for core? for altering, or do so if you have core access. (which i assume you don't or you would of altered it already, in core) | 15:24 |
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| sepen | mike_k, prtverify -m missing-deps -c /usr/ports/core -c /usr/ports/opt -c /usr/ports/contrib /usr/ports/sepen/blender | 15:25 |
| sepen | great! | 15:25 |
| Han | Not everybody prefers my version of pkgutils. | 15:25 |
| tilman | prologic: do you plan to import your 'icecast' port to contrib? | 15:26 |
| Romster | rpm2targz i'm talking about | 15:26 |
| prologic | tilman, I plan to import them all :) | 15:26 |
| tilman | prologic: https://crux.nu/bugs/?do=details&id=100 | 15:27 |
| prologic | all that were marked as .sync in the old contrib :) | 15:27 |
| tilman | fix the deps please | 15:27 |
| prologic | just going through and fixing up flaws that prtverify has picked up | 15:27 |
| prologic | ahh | 15:27 |
| prologic | why did I not get an email ? | 15:27 |
| prologic | flyspary does send out emails right ? | 15:27 |
| mike_k | prologic: if it's assigned, I assume | 15:28 |
| tilman | maybe because you don't have a flyspray account? | 15:28 |
| prologic | no I do | 15:28 |
| Romster | you'd want to pre or post fix your version so it's not the same name as pkgutils, but maybe pkgutils-saferoot or something? | 15:28 |
| prologic | I just thought I'd have gotten an email about it if it's a bug with my port | 15:28 |
| prologic | but maybe you're right - it's prolly not assigned to me | 15:28 |
| tilman | not in the 'crux' flyspray project probably | 15:28 |
| tilman | flyspray + contrib = mess right now | 15:28 |
| Han | nah | 15:29 |
| prologic | well I do have a flyspary account | 15:29 |
| prologic | but yeah I can see it not working too well atm | 15:29 |
| mike_k | tilman: how do I assign bug to someone? is it possible now? | 15:29 |
| tilman | prologic: let me know when you committed the fixed version of icecast please | 15:29 |
| tilman | mike_k: you probably don't have sufficient rights | 15:30 |
| prologic | *nods* | 15:30 |
| tilman | afaik the plan is to set up a new flyspray environment for contrib some how | 15:30 |
| prologic | yay | 15:30 |
| mike_k | tilman: this way fluspray is not a very handy thing to submit contrib bugs =( | 15:30 |
| prologic | no tasks assigned to me | 15:30 |
| prologic | wonderfull :) | 15:30 |
| tilman | mike_k: we. are. working. on. it. | 15:31 |
| prologic | can't we just integrate flyspary/contrib somehow ? | 15:31 |
| mike_k | ok, ok, that is a good news. | 15:31 |
| prologic | just needs to be assigned to the maintainer for the port in question | 15:31 |
| tilman | yes | 15:31 |
| tilman | we know | 15:31 |
| tilman | okay | 15:31 |
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| Romster | sepen, prt-get deptree, also shows missing deps, (not found in ports tree) | 15:40 |
| sepen | Romster, yes but if you have this installed also | 15:42 |
| Romster | its in core :) | 15:42 |
| sepen | prtverify runs perfectly xD | 15:43 |
| Romster | i got a little bash script that can read all the metatags and vars out of Pkgfiles I'm gonna use that to generate my own html page sometime. | 15:43 |
| Romster | that lists description, and other things that i think the current setup on crux.nu is lacking, | 15:44 |
| Romster | and yeah i'm using prt-verify | 15:44 |
| sepen | Romster, Im using portspage for doing that with html's | 15:44 |
| Romster | one anoying bug in prt-verify it won't run in a directory with the Pkgfile, only if i cd .. then run it with the directory name.. | 15:45 |
| Romster | sepen, i'm using that atm, but i'm not happy with it. | 15:45 |
| sepen | yea | 15:46 |
| Romster | i'd like to list a category, and description and add a search capability for files again, that got removed off crux.nu | 15:47 |
| Romster | i used to use that alot... | 15:47 |
| sepen | where is located? | 15:47 |
| Romster | sepen, eh? | 15:50 |
| Romster | prt-get fsearch works if you have all the repos but that a pain, and it dosn't do selective searches in said paths afaik. | 15:50 |
| Romster | oh yay long compile only to find i'm missing a dependency :/ | 15:50 |
| * Romster lists it and then trys again. | 15:50 | |
| treach | maybe should have kind of read the docs before? | 15:51 |
| sepen | http://paste.lisp.org/display/29845 | 15:51 |
| j^2 | has anyone ever heard that ethernet cables "shouldn't" be less then 3ft? | 16:04 |
| j^2 | IEEE standard or something? | 16:05 |
| prologic | oh never heard that | 16:05 |
| Romster | no wonder i can't run prt-verify in the same dir as the Pkgfile.... | 16:05 |
| Romster | like ya jsut make a port and to prt-verify ya have to cd .. then prt-verify foo | 16:05 |
| jaeger | I've made crossover cables shorter than that before... but never used a straight-through that short | 16:05 |
| Romster | for i in `ls`; do < what the for i in *; do works jsut fine or use $(ls --no-color) note $() is the same as `` (backticks but is easier to read) | 16:05 |
| prologic | but I can verify I've used cat5 cables <10cm | 16:05 |
| Romster | i hadn't looked into prt-verify that much but i might hack at it soemtime, it still misses some junk files, i have noticed. | 16:06 |
| Romster | treach, i had read the docs but i also tryed to do what i think it should do. | 16:06 |
| prologic | I've used a 5cm straight-through | 16:06 |
| j^2 | yeah same here, my manager just said that he "thought" it was a ieee standard never to have it shorter then 3ft | 16:06 |
| prologic | might be standard but doesn't stop you from doing it I guess | 16:07 |
| Romster | i never knew of a short limit, only 10 meters of stranded and 90 meters of solid core is the limit, 100Meters total | 16:07 |
| Romster | 3ft nearly a meter :/ | 16:07 |
| j^2 | hmm ok | 16:07 |
| j^2 | thanks guys ;) | 16:07 |
| prologic | nah you can go further than 100m :) | 16:08 |
| treach | I think that's the standard for thinnet | 16:08 |
| prologic | I've strung over 400ms of Cat5 | 16:08 |
| treach | (shouldn't be shorter than 3ft.) | 16:08 |
| Romster | mayeb its got todo with the cable impedence? but that dosn't matter on length, i'd say thats a bogus claim | 16:08 |
| Romster | wtf, with no repeaters in 100M sections? | 16:08 |
| treach | hello, earth calling. | 16:08 |
| treach | it's for *thinnet* afaik. | 16:08 |
| Romster | oh ok no less than 1 meter then :/ | 16:09 |
| aon | i think there can be problems with some equipment because the Rx voltage is too high | 16:10 |
| deus_ex | jaeger: would it be possible to put openal svn snapshot tarball somewhere on, I don't know, crux.nu, and use that to build the port? | 16:10 |
| jaeger | I suppose it would, having problems with the svn? | 16:10 |
| Romster | well what i got was out of the siliconchip electronics magazine i get so if i'm wrong thats wrong too, ont he max distance, hteres no miniumn afaik, i guess 1Meter is the shortist? | 16:10 |
| deus_ex | Yes, it takes a long time atm ;( | 16:11 |
| Romster | over 1 meter of cable the loss would be negeltable | 16:11 |
| treach | meh, there are all kinds of rules wrt repeaters and segments and what not, which I should know.. | 16:11 |
| treach | but I don't. :-( | 16:11 |
| aon | if you just mess in cabinets it doesn't matter that much | 16:12 |
| aon | use whatever is available :) | 16:12 |
| aon | if that doesn't work, switch | 16:12 |
| Romster | i only learn stuff that i have to sue alot :) | 16:12 |
| treach | lol | 16:13 |
| Romster | aon, do it the right way(tm) the first time and save having to redo it later if its not right :) | 16:13 |
| aon | by not following standards you secure your own employment :) | 16:13 |
| treach | aon: anyway, it bugs me that I don't remember, but it's related to what I said about not being well earlier this evening. :-( | 16:13 |
| aon | :/ | 16:13 |
| * Romster shakes my head | 16:13 | |
| aon | i've never "officially" heard of that | 16:14 |
| aon | hm, i think i have some book on the subject | 16:14 |
| aon | -> | 16:14 |
| Romster | if i didn't follow standareds with electronics i could create some very dangerious siturations :/ | 16:14 |
| Romster | in the lest case it won't work right | 16:14 |
| Romster | no safety issues with lan cable but in electronics in general. | 16:14 |
| Romster | thats why there are standereds | 16:15 |
| aon | yeah, but we aren't discussing electronics in general, i think :) | 16:15 |
| Romster | for reliability, safety, and compatability | 16:15 |
| treach | same with networks, but just the same as you sometimes find someone has replaced a fuse with a nail, sometimes you finde flagrant breach of the standards in this field as well. | 16:15 |
| aon | yeah.. | 16:15 |
| Romster | reliabality fals on lan cable standareds | 16:16 |
| Romster | falls* | 16:16 |
| treach | shouldn't happen, but it does, because of neclect, incompetens or just plain "it's gotta work - yesterday, and screw all else". | 16:16 |
| Romster | well using a nail is jsut asking for trouble and possability of a fire | 16:16 |
| treach | but it works. | 16:17 |
| treach | if all goes well. | 16:17 |
| Romster | those types shouldn't be allowed near anything then :) | 16:17 |
| treach | same applies to a number of things in networking. | 16:17 |
| Romster | thats the keyword 'if all goes well' | 16:17 |
| treach | yeah. | 16:17 |
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| treach | that's why there *is* a standard. | 16:17 |
| deus_ex | So many to choose from... | 16:18 |
| treach | if it doesn't go as planned, you can get errors that are terribly hard to nail down. it's bad enough as it is. | 16:18 |
| treach | deus_ex: it's a well known fact that in the US you have to have at least two standards, whatever the situation. ;-) | 16:19 |
| aon | fwiw, i didn't find anything on shortness limitations | 16:19 |
| aon | hehe | 16:19 |
| Romster | i've seen some bad things and fireworks etc from stupid things people have done :/ or protentl shock hazards. | 16:19 |
| Romster | treach, totally agree | 16:19 |
| Romster | i'm off for a shower i gotta go out soon | 16:19 |
| Romster | aon, neather have i | 16:20 |
| treach | aon: did you look for tp or thinnet? | 16:20 |
| aon | no | 16:20 |
| aon | ehm, tp :) | 16:20 |
| treach | ah. | 16:20 |
| aon | if by tp you mean twisted pair | 16:20 |
| treach | I can't remember anything wrt tp, but I'd say no less that 1/2 m | 16:21 |
| treach | yeah. | 16:21 |
| aon | hm | 16:22 |
| treach | actually, cutting cables is an entire sience.. I'm surprised it works as well as it does. | 16:22 |
| aon | of course | 16:23 |
| treach | cut it wrong and you get no signal, or you get massive bounces that might cause serious damage. | 16:23 |
| aon | return loss will be too small if the cable is too short | 16:23 |
| aon | since there's a minimum limit for that | 16:23 |
| treach | it has more with the wave-form to do than the actual resistance of the cable iirc. | 16:24 |
| aon | same thing with elfext | 16:26 |
| treach | ie, cut the cable in a node, and you get no signal, and so on. (All IIRC, it's been more than 10 years since I had anything with that to do.) | 16:26 |
| aon | surely far-end crosstalk at least is affected? | 16:28 |
| treach | well, I'm talking in a general sense. | 16:28 |
| treach | happily the effects are too low in this setting for it to cause any major accidents. | 16:30 |
| aon | yep, i'm still talking about the minimum length and why it would be set :) | 16:30 |
| treach | I remember a story my teacher back then told me about a guy who misadjusted an antenna on the radio buss he was responsible for. :P | 16:31 |
| aon | i'm not quite getting what you exactly mean by cutting cables | 16:31 |
| treach | it's related. it's the same phenomena that makes really short cables less suitable. | 16:33 |
| treach | at least from what I've been taught a very, very long time ago. | 16:34 |
| aon | do you mean the cutting that's done before a connector is attached? | 16:34 |
| deus_ex | aon: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/362707.html | 16:34 |
| treach | yeah. | 16:34 |
| Romster | massive bounces, your talking about reflections swr | 16:35 |
| aon | yeah | 16:35 |
| aon | i agree that it's unbelievable how often it works :) | 16:35 |
| Romster | signal wave refelection | 16:35 |
| aon | standing wave ratio :p | 16:36 |
| Romster | and cable impedence and the length of an antenna cable for a wavelength which is 1 / (speed of light * Hz) = distance for one cycle | 16:36 |
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| Romster | ah thats it, i was trying to recall it from my mind | 16:37 |
| Romster | haven't touched cbs etc for zonkes | 16:37 |
| Romster | refelections upset the impedence which can blow up rf power stages | 16:37 |
| aon | but in ethernet it isn't about unmatched load | 16:37 |
| Romster | nope rf power is so low, miliwatts or less | 16:38 |
| Romster | but refelectiosn count remember the old 52ohm lan networks had matching resistors on each end :) | 16:39 |
| treach | Romster: right, I couldn't think of the right term. | 16:39 |
| aon | yeah, and it's usually caused because faulty connectors | 16:39 |
| treach | that guy I mentioned before? He burned that buss to cinders. :P | 16:40 |
| Romster | without the matched line, the reflections garble up the data, and make it hard to pick what its state is, so its preaty much corupted data. | 16:40 |
| Romster | how the? | 16:40 |
| treach | Romster: he misadjusted the antenna. | 16:40 |
| aon | yeah | 16:40 |
| Romster | started a fire in the buss? | 16:40 |
| treach | he had a pretty serious radio transmitter. | 16:40 |
| treach | yeah. | 16:41 |
| aon | and those tend to heat if your SWR is somewhere around 10 :) | 16:41 |
| treach | basically he was operating a mobile radio station. | 16:41 |
| treach | there was *nothing* tangible left of neither the buss nor his career. :P | 16:42 |
| aon | lol | 16:42 |
| treach | Romster: please find a blackboard somewhere, and then write "reflections" a hundred times on it. | 16:45 |
| treach | "The reason for minimum lenght, is to get the required number of twists." | 16:45 |
| treach | right. | 16:45 |
| treach | I had totally forgotten about that, but definitely rings a bell. | 16:46 |
| treach | a whole set actually. | 16:46 |
| Romster | must of been some serious rf power it was using and not tuned right | 16:47 |
| Romster | must of. | 16:47 |
| Romster | they should be SWR tested | 16:47 |
| Romster | 10 is insane | 16:47 |
| Romster | 1:1 is optium 2:1 is average but anymore is jsut bad for high power | 16:47 |
| Romster | heh | 16:47 |
| Romster | trained in fitting antennas? | 16:47 |
| Romster | or some noob | 16:47 |
| Romster | i'll give him a job working on 415 volts 3 phase :P that should fix him hehe. | 16:47 |
| Romster | then again he'll probbly survive and burn the place down knowing my luck | 16:47 |
| treach | also it has to do with propagation time. | 16:47 |
| treach | all the reasons I learned are in that thread above. | 16:48 |
| aon | Romster: 2 is pretty much the maximum | 16:49 |
| aon | treach: yeah, that explanation seems reasonable :) | 16:49 |
| treach | they are all reasonable, and true, it's just a matter of to which degree they matter. | 16:50 |
| treach | I guess impedance mismatch isn't such a problem with data cableing. :-) | 16:51 |
| aon | yeah :) | 16:51 |
| Romster | lol my spelling really anoyes you, dosn't it | 16:51 |
| Romster | the cable is tightly twisted, and dosn't really matter i guess a few cm would even be enougth. | 16:52 |
| Romster | probbly todo with the power level designed for 100meters of cable, but i'm sure lan cards can adjust that for best snr ratio | 16:52 |
| Romster | err signal/noise ratio | 16:52 |
| Romster | yeah time delay, wave length maybe minium length is a few waveforms, i think lan cards work arond 350MHz for 100mbit not sure for gigabit lan. | 16:52 |
| * RedShift2 zzz | 16:52 | |
| treach | exciting discussion, obviously. :P | 16:53 |
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| aon | hehe | 16:54 |
| Romster | come to think of it i have not seen premade cables shorter than 1 meter, but wasn't aware on any short length | 16:54 |
| Romster | limit | 16:54 |
| aon | i think the ones we had @ the place i worked in the summer were 3ft (yes, feet, hrrr.) | 16:55 |
| treach | sure it wasn't a yard? ;P | 16:55 |
| aon | no, i think the package said 3ft :) | 16:56 |
| Romster | i'll have a search later, i gotta go out now. | 16:57 |
| treach | prologic: check it all you want, think I care? | 16:57 |
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| aon | treach: wrong person | 16:58 |
| aon | :) | 16:58 |
| prologic | lol | 16:58 |
| treach | no. | 16:58 |
| prologic | empty list :) | 16:58 |
| aon | no? | 16:58 |
| treach | No. | 16:58 |
| aon | ah, different channel | 16:58 |
| aon | anyway, i haven't yet seen anybody making cables by hand in anywhere besides school, so perhaps the shortness problems aren't often encountered :) | 17:00 |
| treach | Romster: btw, it's not as much your spelling that annoys me, as the lack of it. We all have our weaknesses I guess. | 17:07 |
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| prologic | btw | 17:18 |
| prologic | I'm guessing the new contrib isn't being used yet ? | 17:18 |
| prologic | the decentralizsed/git one | 17:18 |
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