IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2006-12-01

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mike_kcan someone tell if the contrib git tree ok? I mean the "Merge remote branch 'origin/2.2' into 2.2" commit.03:54
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mike_kI've just got mail returned with: unrouteable mail domain ""04:34
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tilmanmike_k: yeah, that merge is pretty weird07:01
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deus_exopt/ffmpeg  depends on imlib2, but there is no imlib2 in opt, only in contrib(pulled from cvs).07:53
tilmanfile a bug please07:53
tilmanif you can, assign it to jaeger, so he sees it07:53
tilmani don't think ffmpeg really needs imlib2 o_O07:53
deus_extilman: I don't know, it is listed as dependancy...07:54
tilmanyes, but it's probably bogus07:54
tilmananyway, doesn't matter what the right solution is07:54
tilmanjust file a bug so jaeger can fix it07:54
deus_exOk, will do, before 'Alias' starts on tv ;)07:55
tilmanalias <307:55
deus_exHm, imlib2 missing is listed in bug #129.08:01
deus_exSo, I'll just comment there, since I can not assign a bug to jaeger.08:09
deus_exHe is on a vacation, afaik, no need to stress him :)08:15
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RyoStilman: noone in #xorg seems to be able to help me..08:46
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RyoSnoone else than me complained about that?08:47
pitillogood weekend to all!08:52
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jdolan_it's always cool when your gf sends you stuff like to let you know what she's doing while you're away at work.09:45
teKyou do call her pussy(cat), too?09:46
jdolan_something like that, lol.09:51
tilmanRyoS: ask the "xorg" mailing list then.
tilman there10:02
RyoSyea, i will do it10:06
deus_exWould someone assign bug #143 to jaeger?It is about his ffmpeg port.10:09
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thrice`MISSING   -rwxr-xr-x      root/root       usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/glade.so10:19
HanDon't you have libglade installed?10:26
thrice`Han, no, but it's not a dependency of pygtk according to ports, so i'm not certain why it's in the footprint10:27
Hanprt-get dependent libglade10:28
thrice`that returns nothing here10:28
HanSome gnome stuff needs libglade.10:29
HanSo don't worry about that error.10:29
thrice`ah, and now it builds libglade after I install pygtk ;)10:30
HanI think a .footprint_ignore feature would be nice. A grep file which contains patterns to ignore10:31
mike_kHan: recently renamed ports still have $name unchanged in Pkgfiles10:32
HanThat's intentional.10:32
mike_kat least prt-verify is not happy10:33
HanThere's  a lot of stuff prt-verify isn't happy about.,10:33
thrice`Han, so you would advise not building e17 currently due to brokenness ?10:33
Hanthrice`, errr build away, test and report10:34
tilmanmike_k: thanks for reminding him10:34
thrice`Han, sounds good :)  I was gonna wait a few days or so hoping it'd be fixed, but I suppose that is the most useful method10:34
Hanbesides that was 2 weeks ago. who knows what's going on now?10:34
mike_kHan: are't there some utils, expecting them to be equal? Or isn't it a handy feature?10:35
thrice`i like how they are using .desktop files now10:35
Hanmike_k, it's like it should be. That's the ports you got installed. And if you know what you want you know where to get them10:36
mike_kHan: I've got your point.10:38
thrice`jaeger, i'm also getting a footprint mismatch for gaim-beta, missing some libs and a gconf related item10:40
jaegerthat's somewhat expected with gaim-beta, it'll be cleaned up when it's actually released. I build it with some odd things like sqlite3 sometimes, etc.10:41
jaegerthat's one reason it's in contrib and not elsewhere10:42
thrice`jaeger, ah.  it wants /usr/lib/gaim/{,} and /usr/etc/gconf/schemas/gaim.schemas10:42
jaegerboth are fine to ignore10:43
thrice`ok, figured so; thanks10:43
thrice`jaeger, also, I noticed this on another app earlier regarding dbus; is it normal to have this error ?10:45
thrice`D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/usr/etc/dbus-1/machine-id": No such file or directory10:45
thrice`Continuing with a bogus made-up machine UUID, which may cause problems.10:46
jaegerhaven't seen that one... can you send me the whole output?10:46
thrice`i believe xchat gave me the same10:48
jaegerhrmm, that's all? heh10:48
deus_exDbus released 1.0.1 few days ago.10:48
thrice`jaeger, aye, nothing more10:48
jaegerI don't see that one, myself... do you have dbus running?10:49
deus_exs/few/2 weeks ago/10:49
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jaegerdeus_ex: aye, aware of it10:50
deus_exjaeger: I thought so ;)10:50
jaegerI'm very wary of updating things like dbus until I know for sure they work :)10:50
thrice`oops :)10:51
thrice`there should be 3 instances ?10:51
jaegerI've only got 1 session instance but others may be started as needed10:52
thrice`man, i'm not goign well at all, avahi refuses to start too =\10:54
thrice`Could not receive return value from daemon process.10:54
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thrice`ah, I think I found what dbus doesn't like10:57
jaegerthrice`: DBUS_SESSION_BUS_{ADDRESS,PID} properly set?10:57
thrice`Unknown username "avahi" in message bus configuration file10:57
thrice`Unknown group "netdev" in message bus configuration file10:57
thrice`when I try to restart dbus10:57
jaegerthe netdev one isn't a problem, avahi needs to be created before avahi will operate correctly10:58
jaegerdeus_ex: I have dbus 1.0.1 installed on tachyon, for what it's worth, and it *seems* to work well so far10:58
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deus_exjaeger: You could push the update to opt, and let the users do the testing :)11:01
thrice`jaeger, cool, that helped avahi start; how did you recommend I check the dbus stuff ?11:01
jaegerdeus_ex: :P11:01
jaegerthrice`: the two I mentioned are environment variables. 'set | grep DBUS' would show them11:01
thrice`jaeger, that returns nothing11:02
jaegerhow are you invoking the dbus sessions?11:02
thrice`through /etc/rc.d/dbus11:02
jaegerthat one only starts the system dbus daemon, what about the session ones?11:02
thrice`oh, I need to call it again, say in ~/.xinitrc ?11:03
thrice`is that in rc.local ?11:04
jaeger /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/30-dbus.launch, actually11:04
jaegerthat's how it gets launched for gnome users, at least11:04
jaegerfor a more simple setup that doesn't search/source those files, you could run it manually in your .xinitrc or the like11:04
thrice`ah; i'm in fluxbox.  If I place those lines in .xinitrc before exec fluxbox11:05
thrice`I suppose that may work11:05
jaegergive it a try :)11:05
thrice`will do :)11:05
thrice`thanks jaeger11:05
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thrice`jaeger, if i start the server with startx, calling a WM from .xinitrc, and just run the three lines you have in your dbus script, will that export things correctly when I restart X, and call them again?11:34
jaegerrunning them from .xinitrc before calling the WM?11:35
jaegerbrb, door11:35
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jaegergot company, will be AFK a while...  but .xinitrc should work11:44
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jaegerthrice`: get it working?12:26
thrice`jaeger, haven't restarted X yet to find out ;)  I think it will, however12:40
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thrice`and thanks again; I forgot I had to call it there as well12:41
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thrice`jaeger, working fine now.  gaim keeps dying, but doesnt' complain abotu dbus anymore13:03
thrice`but I now have dbus in my set list13:04
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jaegerIs there any contrib maintainer who uses transcode regularly?13:27
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jaeger@seen prologic14:44
clbjaeger: prologic was last seen in #crux 3 days, 3 hours, 15 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <prologic> fix ya shit :)14:44
jizzbotjaeger: prologic was last seen in #crux 3 days, 3 hours, 15 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <prologic> fix ya shit :)14:44
jjpkhis connection "fixed" him :>14:48
jaegerguess so14:48
jjpkdeus_ex: lol15:17
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thrice`does this mean *anything* to anyone?  it is what flies through a gaim strace as grows and grows in CPU16:00
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predatorfreakAnyone feel like an in-depth discussion on handling CVS/SVN Pkgfile's? :)19:06
predatorfreakI'm kinda annoyed by the lack of a standard on that in CRUX.19:07
tilmanare you masochistic?19:07
tilman"i want my OS tell me how to manage my files!"19:08
predatorfreaktilman: I want there to be a standard.19:08
predatorfreakIt's annoying to see one svn Pkgfile.19:08
predatorfreakand one that's another way.19:08
predatorfreakand none of them make good sense.19:08
Hanthere is one standard. They work19:08
HanIf it doesn't comply to that standard they suck.19:09
predatorfreakHan: That's not really a decent standard.19:09
predatorfreakChecking out live versions which could go anywhere doesn't give us a guarantee that it will be.19:09
predatorfreakand I see that a lot.19:09
tilmanhan pwned himself19:10
tilmanemail address standard?19:10
tilmanpredatorfreak: aha, you're talking about pkgfiles that check out crap from cvs/svn19:10
predatorfreakSorry, I should have clerified more.19:10
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tilmani suggest to just not do it19:12
predatorfreaktilman: Well.19:12
tilmanroll your own snapshots instead19:12
tilmanmuch nicer :P19:12
predatorfreakThere are cases when it is nice.19:12
predatorfreakand rolling snapshots means I need to host them somewhere.19:12
tilmani'm going to bed ;)19:12
predatorfreakCase in point for it being nice: mplayer and ffmpeg with H264 support ;)19:12
HanSo what part of those ports don't you like? I don't really get it?19:13
predatorfreakHan: Well, for example.19:13
predatorfreakYour SVN/CVS ports check out stuff live.19:13
predatorfreakWithout using a revision.19:13
predatorfreakMeaning it can suddenly break.19:13
HanSo? Edit the pkgfile and specify a revision or a working date.19:14
predatorfreakIt would be nice if we had a standard on how the Pkgfile's were constructed in the first place.19:14
predatorfreakThat way it would prevent that.19:14
HanI don't see a problem, unless a port regularly breaks.19:14
deus_expredatorfreak: How many ports use svn/cvs checkouts?19:15
HanBut for the cvs ports I made I rarely see that.19:15
predatorfreakI think Arch actually did pretty well with handling this, they define two extra variables that start with _ to avoid collisions and and change the version of the package to the revision.19:15
predatorfreakThen check it out using whatever is required.19:15
HanI think that that's overengineered.19:15
predatorfreakIt's pretty simple.19:16
deus_excontrib/imlib2, opt/openal.Any more?19:16
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Custom mplayer/ffmpeg/x264 versions.19:16
predatorfreakBecause proper h264 support is nearly non-existent in releases.19:16
predatorfreakand ffmpeg really should be checked out live.19:16
predatorfreakWell not totally live.19:16
predatorfreakBut from svn.19:17
Hanoh yeah, imlib2 has a stable release now. lemme change that.19:17
deus_exSo?Roll your own, then.Check out revision, make tarball, use taht.19:17
predatorfreakdeus_ex: That requires that ANYONE would would wish to use my version download a tarball from me.19:18
predatorfreakand my connection is shit.19:18
predatorfreakSo that's obviously out of the question.19:18
predatorfreakIt's better to have them grab it from the source than download a tarball.19:18
predatorfreakTarball is Gentoo-thinking and it adds time to each bump.19:19
Hanpredatorfreak, why do you want to waste so much time writing _rules_ for a problem you once or twice noticed?19:19
predatorfreakIt's easier to bump the version of the package to a new revision.19:19
HanI mean you are not convincing me at all so you might as well stop argueing.19:19
predatorfreakHan: Because it's annoying and stupid that they go any which way and have been known to break.19:19
predatorfreakHell, I have bad luck getting OpenAL to build from live checkouts.19:20
deus_exSo, use revision that works, and stick with it, then ;)19:20
deus_exI did.19:20
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Why not do that in the FIRST PLACE?19:21
Hanpredatorfreak, roll your own port, but don't tell me what to do.19:21
predatorfreakSo we don't have rampant broken ports.19:21
predatorfreakIf we had a standard things wouldn't break because maintainers could test build the revision.19:21
predatorfreakClear it.19:21
predatorfreakand bump it.19:21
predatorfreakInstead we do live checkouts each build, that makes it nearly impossible to debug as well.19:22
predatorfreakMy build is different from XYZ's build.19:22
deus_expredatorfreak: afaik, ports from core/opt taht have to use svn/cvs checkouts will have tarballs hosted on
predatorfreakYes, but then each bump the maintainer has to reroll the tarball.19:23
predatorfreakWouldn't it be nice to just bump the Pkgfile version and be done with it?19:23
Hanpredatorfreak, go ahead and do it!19:24
deus_exNumber of ports that require that doesn't justify adding that feature, imho.19:24
predatorfreakHan: Even if I do it, I'm just adding another form of Pkgfile's that handle it.19:24
predatorfreakThe problem is NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE 5 MINUTES AND WRITE A FEW RULES.19:25
predatorfreakdeus_ex: You don't even need to have pkgmk for that...19:25
deus_expredatorfreak: So, write them, post to crux-devel, see what happens.19:25
HanDon't you love slapping around people with rules?19:26
predatorfreakHan: I'm just going to write this now and be done with it.19:27
deus_exprtverify run on contrib is always fun :)19:27
Hanoh yeah, the ultimate rule slap job19:27
predatorfreakWhen it's rejected on I'm just going to say fuck it and commit myself to Arch.19:27
deus_expredatorfreak: Calm down.19:27
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I am calm.19:27
koefzDon't, they have a shitty logo.19:28
predatorfreakkoefz: But better guidelines.19:28
predatorfreakAlthough admittedly, I dispise their community.19:28
deus_exBut they are a hit on osnews, aren't they?19:28
predatorfreakMostly seems to be Gentoo users....19:28
predatorfreakOr people with a Gentoo-user-like mind.19:28
Hanuh, they harras osnews.19:28
deus_ex'pacman is leet!'19:29
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Not really ;)19:29
deus_exPacman, the game, is.19:30
predatorfreakIt's build system has better dependency handling sure, but I could hack that into pkgutils.19:30
* predatorfreak notes as a future project.19:30
deus_exThere you go.Hack it, and show devs the code.19:31
koefzThe best thing about CRUX is that both devs and users are so damn conservative.19:33
koefzAlways trying to keep things as they are.19:33
predatorfreakdeus_ex: For the most part I could hack in full dependency handling into pkgutils, probably even repository handling.19:33
predatorfreakI'm just lazt :P19:34
koefz"F*ck you!" and "Just use Arch/Gentoo instead!" should almost be written in the handbook as standard answers when someone suggests a feature or "improvement".19:34
predatorfreakkoefz: That's stupid.19:35
nipuLpkgutils does too much imo19:35
nipuL"do one thing well"19:35
predatorfreakImprovements are needed.19:35
predatorfreakFeatures that benefit a project are needed.19:35
bd2koefz, then they should fuck themself first (it's not offend), think grub bootsplash/vesafb19:35
predatorfreakStupid things like bootsplash I agree are useless.19:36
predatorfreakProper improvements I say should be welcomed.19:36
deus_ex"Crux. TEH BASICS?Fuck no!"19:36
bd2deus_ex lol :-)19:36
koefznipuL, what do you mean? Strip out features as a whole, or just splitting up pkgutils?19:39
deus_exsplit? pkgmk, pkgadd, rejmerge, that's all what you need, really.and prt-get,  of course, on top of that.19:45
predatorfreaknipuL: Oh and before I forget.19:57
predatorfreakMay I point you at Slackware's packaging tools?19:57
predatorfreakThose are about as minimalist as one can get.19:57
deus_exLFS has minimal packaging tools, iirc.19:59
predatorfreakThere, my proposal has been sent.20:08
* predatorfreak waits for "SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES!"20:08
deus_exGood luck :)20:11
deus_exAnd good night.20:11
predatorfreakdeus_ex: Don't send luck! Send mind controll.20:11
predatorfreakIt's better than luck.20:11
deus_expredatorfreak: I don't think mind control would work on this crowd, just solid facts, and code.20:13
predatorfreakdeus_ex: I presented an example pkgfile and solid facts, I hope it's enough.20:14
deus_exNow, get a $drink_of_choice and relax ;)20:15
nipuLpredatorfreak: i'm not quite sure what you're proposing in that email20:15
predatorfreaknipuL: Read it?20:15
nipuLi did20:15
predatorfreakThen you must have just skimmed it.20:16
predatorfreakI'm proposing a way to standardise live or snapshot CVS/SVN Pkgfile's.20:16
predatorfreakor any other VCS/RCS for that matter.20:16
nipuLi don't see the problem you are trying to solve20:18
nipuLi find most rcs based ports quite readable20:18
nipuLthere are many reasons you'd want to get HEAD rather than a specific reason20:19
nipuLon a side note, why are you using cp to move the source, using 'svn export' doesn't copy all the .svn directorys :)20:20
predatorfreakIt's not readability.20:20
predatorfreakIt's maintainability.20:20
nipuLif svn were standardised, ideally you would havent to put source retrieval and copying code into the build script20:20
predatorfreakYou missed the entire point.20:21
predatorfreakThe entire point is to create a standard way to WRITE THE PKGFILES.20:21
predatorfreakAnd to ease maintaince.20:21
nipuLlet pkgmk do the rest20:21
predatorfreakThat requires extending pkgmk.20:22
predatorfreakThis is an easier solution.20:22
nipuLsure, but not all code repositories are standard20:22
predatorfreakLater on that's definitely an advantage.20:22
predatorfreakAll this does is checkout the source into the distfiles directory.20:22
predatorfreakand then copies it.20:23
predatorfreakIt will work with any svn repository.20:23
predatorfreakThe part after copying can be whatever.20:23
nipuLsorry, i don't see the need for conformist guidlines20:23
nipuLwhat comes out the other end in the form of a package is more important20:23
predatorfreakIf it's a live build.20:24
predatorfreakIt's impossible for us to debug a build problem.20:24
predatorfreakIf it's a snapshot.20:24
predatorfreakEach snapshot must be prepared.20:24
predatorfreakThis is about simplifying it and standardising it, making it EASIER FOR THE PKGFILE WRITER AND MAINTAINER.20:25
nipuLlive build?20:25
predatorfreakChecks out trunk without a revision.20:25
nipuLno need to yell20:25
predatorfreaknipuL: I'm getting frustrated with no one understanding the danged problem.20:26
predatorfreakIt's like you need to be dictator to get the point across in the Linux world.20:26
nipuLhehe, if their like me, it's not understanding the solution, it's undertanding that there was a problem in the first place20:26
predatorfreaknipuL: The entire problem is that right now it's not easy to maintain one of those unless it does live checkouts.20:27
predatorfreakIt's annoying to produce snapshots.20:27
predatorfreakand live checkouts present too many problems.20:27
predatorfreakBoth for maintainability and debugging/end users.20:27
predatorfreakBy doing it like that, it simplifies maintaining it (I can write a script to grab the latest revision and bump)20:28
predatorfreakand it uses checkouts.20:28
predatorfreakInstead of snapshots.20:28
predatorfreakReducing the time required to bump.20:29
predatorfreakIt's now a matter of bump revision, test build, test package, done.20:29
predatorfreakNo "Produce snapshot" stage.20:29
nipuLports that checkout head probably should be for private use only20:30
nipuLi agree with that20:31
predatorfreaknipuL: Yes, that just produces problems for end users.20:31
predatorfreakBut removing the produce snapshot stage helps maintainers.20:31
bd2nipuL, if version=revision-or-tag, then it's fine to export such Pkgfiles21:20
bd2see my post21:20
bd2because specified revision or tag should not change in time (as opposite to branches)21:21
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