IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2007-01-15

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namenloshi, is it possible, that the md2sum of ImageMagick isn't correct?01:28
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guaquaprobably02:16
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lordalberthello05:04
lordalbertis crux more difficult then archlinux?05:05
pitillolordalbert, take a look to the handbook. You will get info about CRUX, then you can take your conclusions05:07
lordalbertit looks simple...05:12
lordalbertbut some frinds of mine tell that is more difficult than arch... :S05:13
lordalberttell that you must configure all, included udev, etc...05:13
pitillodid they read the handbook? did they try it? did they know what are they doing?....05:14
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lordalberthe used crux before using arch.. btw i'll try crux :)05:15
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sepen|workhttp://www.simpleliving.net/timeday/events.asp06:50
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RyoShow can i allow users to use nice -n -X?07:32
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onestepRyoS: sudo :)07:46
RyoS:/07:48
RyoSi dont want to use sudo everytime i run nice07:48
onestepRyoS: what about alias?07:50
onestepsmth about unice = sudo nice -n -X :)07:50
RyoSthen i would still need to type in my password07:51
RyoSi just want to run it :P07:51
RyoSi can set the permission somewhere, but i dont find where07:51
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onestepRyoS: at first - /etc/sudoers - turn off the password :)08:08
onestepbut here's an alternative...08:08
RyoSnah i dont want to turn of password protection of sudo08:08
RyoSwhich one?08:08
onestepRyoS: you can turn it off for some group08:08
RyoSrenice?08:08
onestepno08:08
treachyou can allow sudo / command iirc.08:09
onestepexecution id08:09
jjpkYou can allow one or multiple commands to run without asking for a password.08:09
RyoSaaaah i see08:09
RyoSi will look over that thanks08:09
jjpksudo has a flexible configuration, its a bit tough to get going first. :p08:10
onestepRyoS: chmod 104755 /usr/bin/nice08:10
treachIt'd probabably be better if you looked *at* it, instead of *over* it. :p08:10
treachsetting up sudo properly is probably a better way than screwing around with permissions in the fs..08:11
onesteptreach: yes, sure. but chmod is just an alternative ;)08:12
treachnot really..08:12
jjpkWhy wouldn't it be? It *should* get the same effect08:13
treachit'd break every time you upgrade coreutils? (not that often, but still..)08:13
jjpkJust a different way of accomplishing it.08:13
treachalso it's not good to have things set in a way that isn't easy to remember, easy to back up etc, imo.08:14
jjpkIn that sense, true, I understand what you are saying.08:15
jjpksudo would not have that problem because it does not touch the fs.08:15
treachalso, the method sucks ass since it really doesn't scale. :P08:16
jjpkIf its a single user, who cares. Screw up all you want ;)08:16
treachand if disaster strikes, you will face a lot of work to get things back as they used to be, unless you back up *every* single file on your system.08:17
jjpkNot a very practical system either.08:18
treachor keep a post-it somewhere with all the files listed which you've tampered with, and how..08:18
treachOn the whole, I'd say sudo is the clear winner IMHO. :)08:19
jjpkIt's a damn useful tool imho.08:19
treachindeed.08:21
jjpkBack when I started to use linux/unix, it would have helped quite a bit.08:22
jjpkIt took quite a while before I started using it.08:22
RyoSgot it all working with sudo, thanks08:31
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treachyay, someone thinks we need a GUI installer..13:41
guaquaand loads of cute images of unicorns13:42
treach"Ponies" dammit. ;)13:42
guaqua:D13:42
treachpreferably pink ones.13:42
guaquahmm13:42
guaquaat least not invisible pink unicorns13:43
jjpkoooohhh eye candy, just what crux needs.13:44
treachI think you're refering to elephants. They are the ones who are supposed to be pink and not visible for the general public.13:44
tilmani'll take two13:44
treachtilman: do you pay for the freight?13:44
tilmantwo gui installers i mean13:45
tilmanalready have an elephant13:45
treachdammit, I was hoping to ship off a couple of invisible pink elephants. :P13:45
tilman:D13:45
guaquatreach: you should google invisible pink unicorn :)13:46
treachah, I see. Never heard of it before.13:47
tilmanhttp://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=de&lr=&q=invisible+pink+unicorn&btnG=Suche13:48
tilmanthere's images of invisible pink unicorns13:48
tilmanstrange13:48
treachactually, they even got their own article on wp.13:48
guaquayep :)13:48
tilmani hit images.google.com before the real thing13:49
guaquatilman und suche :)13:49
tilmanguaqua: "web"13:49
guaqua:)13:49
guaquaun-english google is always fun :)13:49
tilmannot sure why it was german anyway13:50
tilmandon't think i have google cookies13:50
guaquahl=de13:50
tilmanyes, but how did it know?13:51
tilmangeo ip crap?13:51
tilmanhostname crap?13:51
guaquano idea13:51
treach"Tilman Sauerbeck's non-blog and stuff" \ "File Format: Unrecognized - View as HTML" :p13:51
guaquabrowser probably13:51
guaquamine are always in english13:51
tilmantreach: yeah, it's xhtml13:52
tilmanapplication/xml or something13:52
treachok, just looked a bit funny. :)13:52
tilmanapplication/xhtml+xml13:53
tilmangoogle sucks :(13:53
tilmani'm hesistating to reply to the unicorn thread14:00
jjpkjust do it :p14:01
treachhesitatingly writing a reply over here..14:01
* tilman just doesn't do it14:02
tilmanhaha14:03
tilmanwitold signed his mail with "me"14:03
jjpkHe could be experiencing an identity crisis :]14:06
jaegeror felt it was unnecessary to have his name in the mail 3 times14:09
treachjaeger: Too much work lately? Seems like you're turning into a "dull boy" ;)14:12
jaegerguess so14:13
tilmantreach: your sylpheed likes _not_ to break lines. which sucks ;)14:13
treachsry, I don't use it very often. I guess I'll have to look into that. :/14:14
tilmanthat would be nice14:14
tilmansylpheed is known to have stupid defaults in that regard14:14
treachwell, it *is* set to wrap at 72 characters..14:15
treachah..14:15
tilmano_O14:15
treachI guess  "wrap on Input" was what I was looking for. NOT checked..14:15
tilmanyou'd think it wrapped all of the lines when you send/save or whatever14:16
treachyeah. I guess I got a bit mislead by the gui last time I had a look at it. ;)14:17
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tilman> Just kiddin'.14:40
tilmanI am allready working on it....14:40
tilman:D14:40
treachlooks like were seeing the birth of a new distro, "poney linux".14:40
treach;)14:40
tilmanquick, draw him a logo :)14:44
treachI just don't get why people come up with stuff like this.14:44
tilmanwith pony logos?14:45
tilman;>14:45
treachNo, more like, "how on earth do you manage to fit it into the crux ideals?"14:45
guaquaCRUX is now known as poney linux14:45
tilmanprobably because they don't know that most of crux's users are elitist bitches14:45
guaqua:D14:45
treachtilman: I was trying very hard not to sound like one..14:46
tilmanyou didn't14:46
tilmannipuL did14:46
tilman:D14:46
guaquais this conversation on some mailing list?14:46
treachguaqua: yes14:46
tilmancrux@lists.crux.nu14:46
tilmanhttp://lists.crux.nu/mailman/listinfo/crux14:46
treachtilman: nipuL put it a bit more bluntly, but I think we're on the same wavelenght. :)14:47
tilman:)14:47
tilmanone day i should learn how to do wicked stuff with the gimp14:48
treachIMO putting some nice gui installer on crux is almost like trying to defraud the user..14:48
guaquai'd actually like to see that handbook in one window and info source as well14:49
guaquaand shell in the other14:49
guaquathat'd be cool14:49
tilmanheretic!!111 ;)14:49
guaquafor example to have like instructions to create lvm stuff and raids and whatnot14:50
treachguaqua: there are viritual terminals you know..14:50
guaquayeayea, but that stuff on the cd14:50
treachbut I wish the man pages were accessible during the installatin.14:50
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guaquathat too14:50
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tilmanokay14:55
tilmani see this has some potential14:55
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tilmanhttp://files.code-monkey.de/pony-crux.png14:56
RyoSmh..14:57
treach:P14:57
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rehabdollawesome14:59
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pitilloxD14:59
rehabdollhttp://xkcd.com/c208.html15:01
jjpktilman: \o/15:38
tilmani hope you noticed the horn!15:39
tilmanunfortunately, the pony image wasn't wide enough15:39
treachgrr. He's annoying. "Is GUI a bad thing?" ... wtf is he trying to do? Reimplement the ncurses part of the installation in gtk?15:46
tilmanyes15:46
treachah, I see. Obviously it's so much easier to select the packages I want/don't want if I do it in a gtk-gui, rather than a ncurses one..15:47
jaegerI don't understand why everyone is so opposed to it. let him do it if he wants to15:48
tilmanagreed15:48
treachjaeger: I'm not opposed to it per se. I just think it's a huge waste of time, and the motives are quite murky, to say the least.15:49
jaegerit's not a huge waste of YOUR time15:49
jaegerand why do his motives matter?15:49
jaegerwhat damage do you think he'll do15:50
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treachI've got this thing, if people argue for something, they should at least make sure their arguments are somewhat coherent.15:51
jaegerI don't even see an argument in it, personally.15:51
jaegerIf he wants a GTK installer, fine by me... I don't need it, myself15:51
jaegerBut he's not inconveniencing me in the least making it15:51
treachNo, and that's partly why it's a waste of time.15:52
jaegerIt's his choice, though, certainly.15:52
treachit's not going anywhere, unless he starts to provide his own crux-branded isos, as far as I can see.15:53
jaegerWouldn't be the first time that's happened15:54
treachsure. and he seems hell-bent on creating it. Anyway, I think this discussion is slighty pointless. I don't feel like I'm getting across.15:55
jaegerI understand your opinion, just not why you're so vehement about it15:55
treachI don't think vehement is the right word. Anyhow, who cares in 100 years?16:00
jaegerforget it, then16:01
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guaquaanywho, i like the way crux installer works16:10
guaquaonly thing that bothers somewhat is the fact it doesn't recognize the cd drive path automatically16:10
treachthat's filter #1. :)16:11
guaquabut i guess the right way to do it would be implementing a solution and sending it to dev :)16:11
guaquaharhar16:11
jaegerI've already done that16:11
guaquayou are taking away the filter? :S16:12
treachhe's such a spoilsport. ;)16:13
treachjaeger: udev?16:13
treachobviously not, when you think about it..16:13
jaegera scriptlet that uses sysfs a bit and then searches for a file on the mountable media16:14
treachah, cool. :)16:14
rehabdollare there any 2.3 test-cds or something yet?16:14
jaegerit's a bit crude but does the job16:14
jaegerit could be more elegant if I used a shell other than ash16:15
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treachrehabdoll: http://www.mail-archive.com/crux-devel@lists.crux.nu/msg00544.html16:26
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rehabdollsweet, thanks16:29
treachfirst hit on google. (I guess it helps if you know sip's the culprit :P )16:31
rehabdolli prefer having people like you do my googling for me :)16:36
* treach makes a note of not speaking to rehabdoll again.16:37
rehabdoll:D16:38
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jjpkVery odd problem, according to prt-get I don't have ANY xorg ports installed. pkginfo says i do. wtf is going on o_o17:19
treachprt-get cache?17:19
jjpkI don't prt-get's cache function.17:20
jjpkThis is strange, no matter what I check to be installed, prt-get says it is not.17:21
jjpkfor example prt-get current gcc = not installed, but according to pkginfo, it is.17:22
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jjpkI'm looking through /var/lib/pkg right now, for some reason db is only allowed to be read by root.17:25
jjpkwonder how this happened.17:25
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treachdid you run pkginfo as root?17:25
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jjpkah ok, now I think I know what caused it. I removed exim and I was root at the time.17:26
jjpkI also have a somewhat restrictive umask, so this probably caused it.17:26
* jjpk smacks head on desk...17:27
treachas usual. when stuff breaks, it's your own fault. :)17:28
jjpkthat is what I like about crux, almost always your own fault :)17:29
treachfunctionality that isn't there can't break. (god, I sound like anselm..)17:30
* treach fetches soap and water.17:30
jjpk:D17:30
jjpkDon't bother, he is right about that imo.17:31
treachyeah. He's just a bit off the map on where to stop. :)17:32
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jjpkextremism is everywhere these days. :p17:37
treach*sigh* too true. I suppose all of us anti-gui-installers go there as well. :p17:38
jjpkI doubt it would ever be seen on an official crux cd, but if someone wants to make it, why not do it and release it later.17:47
treachAlan was pretty spot on imo.17:49
jjpkAgreed. crux is almost diehard conservative in some matters, but that should stop people from creating stuff for it. :p17:51
jjpkEverything is a strength or a weakness, depending how you perceive the circumstances :)17:52
treachI don't necessarily agree with that, but I wish people would think through *why* they think some feature is missing.17:53
treachNot first decide it's needed and then construct some kind of arguments to support why.17:54
jjpkThese things happen from time to time, probably just not familiar enough with crux's principles.17:54
treachIt's a common trait. Solutions looking for problems isn't hard to find.17:55
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jjpkNot the best way to approach :p17:58
jdolan_http://jdolan.dyndns.org/pipermail/quake2/2007-January/000897.html18:01
jjpkI'll try some sleep for now, this insomnia streak is not good at all.18:01
treachgood night, and good luck :)18:02
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Auge^hi. how to type japanese (kanji, kana) on crux? :) (/me is learning japanese)18:03
jjpkhaha, I still have some old quetoo installed here, but it wouldn't run because it bitched about libGL.so, if I remember this correctly.18:04
jjpkShould give it a try again soon.18:04
Auge^libGL.so? check links and selected libs (gl-select)18:06
jjpkI will look deeper into this later on today, also see what happens if I upgrade mesa3d because it also has issues with that file :p18:07
jjpkGood night.18:08
jdolan_jjpk, not to keep you up, but quetoo has come a very long way :)18:10
jdolan_new network protocol, integrated renderer and engine, it's nice.  real clean.18:11
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