IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2007-02-10

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prologicno he's not an idiot00:06
prologicjust not patient enough :)00:06
Romsterwell that at starters.00:07
JKnifeanyone have the order to install Xorg 7.1?00:38
prologicthe order ?00:58
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RomsterJKnife, dunno what you mean but xorg 7.1 is working fine.01:32
treachRomster: could it be that he doesn't know about prt-get?01:33
treachinstalling xorg sans prt-get.. *winces*01:34
Romsterlol i'd hate todo it without prt-get :D01:34
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JKnifetreach: i am installing via prt-get but it isn't handling the deps01:43
prologicdo you know how ridicoulous that sounds :)01:44
prologicprt-get _does_/_should_ handle deps - it has always done so :)01:44
JKnifewell it isn't working here01:44
prologicprt-get deptree xorg-server01:45
prologicthat doesn't show you the dependancy tree ?01:45
JKnifeyes.. but why doesn't it install them?01:46
prologicare you using prt-get depinst xorg-server ?01:46
prologicor prt-get install xorg-server ?01:46
prologicwell you should really read the man page then01:46
* JKnife ran prt-get help01:46
prologicINSTALL, UPDATE and REMOVAL01:47
prologic  depinst [opt] <port1 port2...>    install ports and their dependencies01:47
prologicdon't make a blind man read for you :)01:47
JKnife-_- that is not on mine01:48
prologicreally ?01:48
prologicwhat ver of prt-get ?01:48
prologicprt-get listinst prt-get -v01:48
prologic$ prt-get listinst prt-get -v01:48
prologicprt-get 5.15-101:48
prologicin any case depinst has always been there - regardless of outdated help/man files01:48
JKnifedefault for 2.201:49
prologicdon't forget to install the scripts01:51
prologicyou might want to edit /etc/prt-get.conf :)01:51
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RoomsterJKnife, prt-get depinst --install-scripts xorg01:54
JKnifeRoomster: already covered :)01:54
JKnifetimed out?01:54
treach *blam!*01:55
prologicwell done treach :)01:55
treachthanks. :)01:55
JKnifea little slow but thanks =P01:55
treachslow? Dude, I don't live to serve, and it's 08:56, on a saturday here..01:56
JKnifewow.. who pissed in your cereal?01:57
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prologiccalculating pi is so much fun :001:57
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prologicespecially using the chudnovsky algorithm in C :)01:58
Romsterya reset my firewall, em messing with it again01:58
treachJKnife: Why would anyone have done anything like that?01:58
prologicnow if only I can work out how to modify it for a distributed env :)01:58
treachI'm just telling you, it's still pretty early in a weekend morning here.01:59
Romsterprologic, you orught to give gdc a try its got OO and it'll compile to machine code.01:59
JKnifeGNU D Compiler!01:59
prologicumm no thanks02:00
prologicwhy would I want to use D ?02:00
* JKnife use to use DMD..02:00
Romsterbecause its OO and will compile to native code for speed.02:00
prologicand so ?02:01
Romsterunless your gonna mess with API's with C code on python..02:01
prologicOO is just a model02:01
prologicit's still executed on imperative machines02:01
prologicno point in that02:01
prologicif you want speed, you use C or asm02:01
Romsteryeah i've learned that.02:01
treachor fortran, if you're into such things.02:02
Romsterand not C++ or D?02:02
prologicI'm not actually trying to do anything profound here02:02
prologicI"m just leanring about distirbuted computing02:02
* Romster shrugs and goes back to soldering...02:02
Romsterya your toying around02:03
treachprologic: btw, I recopiled that c program yesterday, -O3 brought massive speed increases. :P02:03
treachfrom 0.2 to 0.17 s :P02:03
treachdammit, I'm not awake yet. :-/02:04
prologicthe prime test code I had ?02:05
treachno, the prime test-case you had.02:05
treachI didn't use any code from you.02:05
Romstertreach, had hes own example he made ages ago i beleave02:06
Romsterwhat i gathered from yesterday.02:06
prologic$ ./ 100000 primes.txt02:07
prologicTime elapsed: 6.71s02:07
prologicPrimes found: 9593 (1429/s)02:07
treachRomster: ok, well, I'm not using his repo.02:07
Romsterya you made your own C code to compute primes?02:08
treachprologic: ok, you've got me beat this time I guess.02:09
prologichmm ?02:10
treachtoo large calculation for a single node to keep up, I presume.02:11
treacha single *slow* node at that.02:11
prologicthat's 5 nodes02:11
prologicbut I am using a C extension to test for primes02:12
prologicso it's much faster than just pure python02:12
treach100000 candidates takes 13 seconds here.02:12
prologicI'll reduce the nodes down to 1 and test :)02:12
prologicshould take roughly the same time02:12
treachheh, you should still be faster than that I recon. :p02:12
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treachunless you're using some really old hw.02:13
Dulichkohi 2 all02:13
prologicmy desktop is also computing pi to 100000000 decimal places atm02:13
prologictesting a C algorithm :)02:13
Dulichkoi have one question02:13
prologic$ ./ 100000 primes.txt02:13
prologicTime elapsed: 36.10s02:13
prologicPrimes found: 9593 (265/s)02:13
prologicthere :) single node (my desktop)02:13
Dulichkois really crux 2.2 ready for production server using ?02:13
prologicsorry I didn't answer you before02:14
treachwhy shouldn't it?02:14
prologicyou left before I could say "yes" :)02:14
RomsterDulichko, yes and you left too soon to get a answer last time02:14
prologictreach, mind sending me your C app ?02:14
Dulichkothat means - enough stable, for server using under a heavy network pressure02:14
prologiccompare it against a python app using a C extension :)02:14
prologicDulichko, yes02:14
prologicI run about 9 servers myself02:15
RomsterDulichko, its how you add onto it.. but the core system is stable.02:15
Dulichkothanks a lot - you gave me a hope :-)02:15
Dulichkowhat is the uptime of your servers02:15
Dulichkounder crux02:15
prologicCRUX is essentially Gentoo (without the crap), BSD (with nicer tools) and LFS (with extra goodies) :)02:16
prologicDulichko, >100d02:16
Dulichkook :)02:16
Dulichkothis is good :)02:16
prologic$ ssh root@data uptime02:16
prologic 18:17:15 up 70 days,  5:16,  0 users,  load average: 0.05, 0.07, 0.0302:16
prologicwell 70d :)02:16
nipuLprologic: i'd have to disagree with the comment about bsd02:17
prologic# uprecords02:17
prologic     #               Uptime | System                                    Boot up02:17
prologic     1   104 days, 17:25:29 | Linux           Wed Aug 16 21:05:30 200602:17
Dulichkoi am asking because, i had tried so lot distros ( incl. fbsd ) but i am looking for something really simple and stable02:17
prologicnipuL, heh ok :)02:17
prologicI don't really use bsd so yeah02:17
Dulichkoits not flame....just the reality02:17
treachDulichko: crux will probably be as stable as your kernel will allow it to.02:17
prologicif you want simple - crux is simple :)02:17
prologicand the software you use02:17
Romsterlike slackware but more customiseable02:17
Dulichkowhy.... because when i am trying to run PPPoE server under fbsd, it is uncreable difficult, but under Linux it is so easy....02:17
nipuLsimple != easy02:18
Dulichkoslack11 is full with errors :(02:18
prologicbut in some cases (for some people) it is :)02:18
RomsternipuL, is right there02:18
Dulichkopppd 4.4.x is painfull02:18
prologicDulichko, if you want to run PPPoE servers or an Access COncentrator, I suggest you use MikroTik02:18
Dulichkojust pppd 2.4.2 is great02:18
prologicthey build a nice Linux-based (commercial) router distro02:18
Dulichkowhy micro ?02:19
nipuLprologic: those "some people" being the target audience02:19
RomsterDulichko, so easy to bump most ports up if need be or bug the maintainer or make your own too.02:19
treach"everything is a package".02:19
prologic"everything is a port" :)02:19
treachkind of strikes both ways though02:19
prologicor was a port :)02:20
Dulichkoi mean that slackware was included pppd 2.4.4 BETA by default in 1102:20
Romsterport/package i use the terms interchangeablely02:20
Dulichkobut it is buggy02:20
prologicey treach send me your C prime app ?02:20
Dulichkothe last stable is 2.4.3 and 2.4.2.... yes *.* is a package, but why i need to put by default a beta package for production use ? :)02:21
nipuLugh, taking a course in number theory this semester02:21
RomsterDulichko, CRUX uses source based ports don't like a port you can alter it. but by deault they should be stable.02:21
treachprologic: All in due time.02:21
nipuLall about primes02:21
Dulichko*.* what is built from ports is stable - that is my oppinion02:21
Romsterppp 2.4.4 is fine on this pc..02:22
Romsterpppoe dosn't drop on me.02:22
DulichkoRomster: try running pppoe-server + pppd 2.4.4 and we will talk again02:22
RomsterDulichko, could be compiler options too.02:23
Romsterwell i got a pppoe connection to my isp02:23
Romsterand i'm typing over it.02:23
Dulichkoxmm.... i dont know.. just i had tried it on Slackware and it was painfull02:23
prologicuser-space pppoe server suffers from poor performance and bandwidth issues02:24
Romstertry it on CRU b4 you decide, you can always downgrade versions..02:24
prologicyou need to run kernel-mode pppoe-server02:24
prologicif you're going to do this, use MikroTik instead - they've done all the hard work02:24
Dulichkowhat another authentication for users is possible, if not pppoe ?   is there dhcpd + passwords ?02:24
Romsteryou and ya MikroTik...02:24
Dulichkonot just MAC ?02:25
prologicif you simply want authentcation for your users on your network02:25
prologicyou can use cat (I think)02:25
Dulichkoi want to have and another option except MAC protection02:25
prologicsome gateway authentication02:25
prologicgoogle it up :)02:25
Dulichkobecause mac spoofing is so easy...02:25
Dulichkoi think that pppoe-server + chap 128 bit is a good choice ?02:26
Dulichkobtw i hope so that crux is being developed, nothing that Linden is not in the project anymore... Truth ?02:29
prologiccrux is very much aliave and active - yes02:32
prologicwow I can't type02:32
Dulichkodont worry02:32
prologictotal   time = 1460.47002:32
prologic   P size=145605885 digits (1.456059)02:32
prologic   Q size=145605879 digits (1.456059)02:32
prologictreach, this C app and algorithm is really nice :)02:32
prologic100M digits of pi on a single computer02:33
nipuLprologic: what algorithm are you using>02:33
Dulichkopro: please tell me, what do you mean with this: < if you simply want authentcation for your users on your network you can use cat>02:34
prologicit's the Chudnovsky algorithm02:34
prologicDulichko, use an Authencation Gateway. there is software out there - just forget the name :)02:34
treachprologic: I belive you. I'm certain this app could be immensly improved, after all it's just a quick hack.02:34
prologicDulichko, google "Authentication Gateway" - most universities implement some kind of auth gateway02:35
prologictreach, oh and btw - here's the _real_ results of my python + c extension prime finder02:35
prologic$ ./ 100000 primes.txt02:35
prologicTime elapsed: 16.91s02:35
prologicPrimes found: 9593 (567/s)02:35
prologicon a single node of course02:35
treachah, I still win in that case. :)02:36
prologicon 5 nodes it's 4.37s :)02:36
prologicyeah most likely :)02:36
prologicsome python overheads :)02:36
prologicbut still many times faster than pure python02:36
prologicsend me your pure C app so I can compare :)02:36
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treachprologic: sent02:37
prologicreal    0m15.788s02:40
prologicyour C app isn't that much faster :)02:40
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treachas I said. It's just a hack anyway02:41
prologicthe overheads of python are marginal obviously - except that large computational problems should be done in C :)02:41
nipuLpython's generally been only slightly slower than C, just uses a wad of memeory for the interpretor02:42
prologicthat pi algorithm is amazing though02:42
prologicI have a 100M file of pi now - what to do  :)02:42
nipuLpi == 302:43
nipuLfor large values of 302:43
Romster3.141592654 i forget the rest...02:45
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prologiccan someone do me a favour please06:02
prologic$ telnet 312806:03
prologicdoes that work for anyone ?06:03
RyoSand connection is closed at once again06:04
prologicI was getting that too06:04
prologiccan you monitor it for me ?06:04
prologicit's my isp's transparent proxies (1 of 4)06:04
RyoShow shall i monitor it? ._.06:04
prologicthey refuse to listen to me - in that they keep doing down every now and again06:04
prologicI can send you the same script I have06:04
RyoSconnection is refused now06:04
prologicthat way I have results from my end06:05
prologicand independent from the tpg network06:05
prologicthat proxy is dead/unreliable06:05
prologicbut the fuckers won't listen to me :/06:05
prologicwhat's your email address ?06:05
RyoSryo.saeba gmx.de06:06
RyoSprologic: you've sent the mail?06:14
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prologicsorry RyoS06:22
prologicwent upstairs to bitch to my brother about this bs :)06:22
prologicahh wait06:22
prologick sent06:23
prologicrun under nohup06:24
prologicnohup ./monitor-tpg-proxies &06:24
prologicI'll ask you for the logfile sometime in the next few days :)06:24
RyoSyou know i reboot pretty often06:45
RyoSi let it run now for the time i reboot06:45
prologicsure nps06:45
prologicdoesn't matter if you reboot06:45
prologicas long as some of your log results match mine :)06:45
prologicand thanks06:46
RyoSRomster: your wengo port is broken (download link)06:50
RyoSprologic: the log stays emtpy06:50
RyoSwait i created that ~/var/foo/bar06:50
RyoSits stays there alright06:50
prologicyou might have to change the LOGDIR variable :)06:51
prologicit does echo ... >> $LOGFILE06:51
RyoSits ok ^^06:51
prologicchange that06:51
prologicor create it :)06:51
prologic[Sat Feb 10 22:49:34 EST 2007] dead (1171111774)06:52
prologic[Sat Feb 10 22:49:35 EST 2007] alive (1171111775)06:52
prologicshould get stuff like that06:52
prologicand be sure to have netcat installed06:52
prologicit uses the netcat tool06:52
RyoSi know ;)06:52
RyoShave installed it06:52
prologicthanks :)06:52
prologicmuch appreciated06:52
prologic132 is definately dead06:52
prologicit dies, then comes back and then dies again06:52
prologicbuggy proxy06:53
prologicand btw, "Connection Refused" cannot be caused by packet loss right ?06:53
prologicmy isp wnats me to do ICMP tests (ping and traceroute) when I have web browsing issues06:53
guaquajust put up some logging software that polls the servers all the time06:54
prologicI am06:54
prologicthat's what the script is that I wrote that RyoS and I are running06:54
prologicI'm just making sure I'm not going crazy :)06:54
prologictcp/ip messages of connection refused are caused by the protocol reporting that no socket is listneing on the requested port06:55
prologicif there was packet loss, I'd expect "connection timed out"06:55
prologicif there was a routing problem, I'd expect "no route to host"06:55
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treachprologic: btw, what did you run my prim number program on? it takes ~12.5 seconds here.. originally ~13, some messing around done since then :p07:40
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treachs 12.5/12.1507:41
prologicOS: CRUX version 2.2 (Linux | CPU: AMD Sempron(tm) 2400+ (Running: 1666.413) | Memory: (Used/Total) 791MB/1009MB | Videocard: 0.0 VGA compatible controller (ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO] (rev 01)) | Resolution: xdpyinfo: | Uptime: 15+3 | ppp0: IN: 2644.2 Mb OUT: 154.6Mb07:42
prologicthis :)07:42
treachok. they should be compareable.07:42
prologicyour C app and my Python + C extension are virtually identical in performance07:42
prologicthe pure C is just marginally faster (talking a few ms)07:43
treachI bet that's without ricing magic. :P07:43
prologicricing ?07:43
treach-funroll-loops. :P07:44
rehabdollfyi: there are some exploits in 2.6.1507:44
prologicexcuse my ignorance :)07:45
prologicwhat are funrol-loops ?07:45
treachcompiler switches.07:45
treachyou know, OPTIMIZING :D07:45
prologicoooh right07:47
treachprologic: I just sent the improved version07:47
prologicwant me to use -O3 on both and re-test : )?07:47
prologicI don't use gcc that much :)07:47
prologicahh ta07:47
prologicI'll try it07:47
treachwell, you know after all *this* is HPC computing ;)07:48
prologicif you're C version proves to be much faster than mine07:49
prologicI'll use it in the distributed app :)07:49
treachI bet it's not much faster, but it's probably the best such an amatuer as I can do. :)07:50
prologic<prologic> do you have any linux boxes handy on your connection ?07:50
prologic<Brains> ... and when it has, it's always been the fault of the relay I use in the US07:50
prologic<Brains> GAAH!H!!!07:50
prologic* Brains shudders07:50
prologic<Brains> yuk!07:50
prologic<prologic> wow07:50
prologic<Brains> Just Macs and Windows machines here. Real OSes, not mecanno-software that belongs in 1963 :)07:50
prologic<Brains> I gave up on CLI as a lost cause twenty years ago, son :)07:50
treachgive him a solaris dvd.07:50
prologic<Brains> if you're determined to use something that antiquated, at least use something that works: OpenSolaris07:51
prologicis this guy for real ?07:51
prologicI woudln't touch SOlaris with a 10 foot pole!07:51
treachwell. there is nothing wrong with it except that SUN apparently don't give a shit about the poor people who have to use it at their desk07:52
prologichmm I haven't got your email yet07:52
guaquasun is corporate07:52
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prologicI can't believe someone can call the cli antique07:53
treachprologic: I'll try again.07:53
prologicas a vip I love the cli07:53
guaqua<3 cli07:53
prologicI could not survive on a pretty windows/mac system07:53
guaquai got really angry when i had to do something with mac last time07:53
guaquait made me feel like i couldn't use a computer07:53
prologicthat's what Macs and Windows are designed for07:54
prologicthe dumb users07:54
prologicthe rest of us just wanna get it done yesterday07:54 was the time before that07:54
ningo_someone here fighting with that annoying imlib2 bug?07:54
treachsome tasks are appropriate for each paradigm.07:55
guaqualast time i used mac i clicked some button in the bar in the bottom and it launched some script that created a fork bomb. it was in a computer store :/07:55
prologicthis is true treach07:55
jjpkrofl REAL OSes :D :D07:55
prologicwhich is why I use windowmaker :)07:55
prologicand opera :)07:55
guaquathinking of real oses07:55
treachjjpk: yeah, as if OSX didn't suck donkeyballs. :P07:55
jjpkCLI might be old, but it still is very effective.07:55
guaquaall the websites not being hosted on solaris and hosted on linux07:56
rehabdollwhats the point of a pretty gui if youre blind? :)07:56
prologicjjpk, thank you I"m glad you agree :)07:56
prologicor I'd just giveup my career now :)07:56
prologicrehabdoll, indeed :)07:56
guaquai mean..solaris zones might be fine and dandy, but if you can't do the stuff with cli and not get any support without paying your ass off...not a choice07:56
jjpkThat reminds me of my father's comments when I started using linux full time. "you are going back in time..."07:57
treachprologic: it should have traveled around the globe about now, unless your isp is extracting some revenge..07:57
rehabdollmy dad insists that my computer is useless "since i cant use office" ;)07:57
treachjjpk: maybe you should intruduce him to "evolutionary dead ends". :)07:57
rehabdollhe thinks computers=excel07:58
jjpkSome people have to over simplify :p07:58
prologicif I didn't have people at uni constantly wanting me to read MS-Word documents I'd remove openoffice :)07:59
prologic$ time ./prime07:59
prologicNumber of suspects: 959207:59
prologicreal    0m12.257s07:59
treachrehabdoll: maybe you should tell your dad about sc. :P08:00
prologicsc is nice :)08:01
guaquaevery time some people go off ranting and raving about word...i start talking about vim ;)08:01
treachyeah. and if they bring up word, talk about latex. :D08:01
guaqua:S :S :S08:02
guaquanot my cup of tea08:02
treachand how they spend about as much time fighting with word as they do actually being productive..08:02
guaquathat too...08:02
prologictreach, 0.63ms increase in speed08:02
treachprologic: not too shabby, right?08:02
prologic4.8% better performance :)08:03
prologic4.8% is good :)08:03
treachprologic: I forgot.. gcc -Wall -pedantic -ansi -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=athlon-4 -fforce-addr -funroll-loops -fno-branch-count-reg primes.c -o primes08:04
treachthat was what seemed to make sense08:05
prologicsee I"m not familar with these fancy flags :)08:05
prologicbeen a while since I've used C :)08:05
treachbut 4.8% faster without playing with the compiler isn't too bad in my books.08:05
prologicI'll try both with your set of flags08:06
treachbe careful with the march flag.. I'm not sure that's the one you're supposed to use.08:06
prologic5.7% better performance08:07
treachwhee. :)08:07
prologicathlon-4 worked fine08:07
prologicthough I have a Sempron 240008:07
prologicany particular march for that ?08:07
prologicI think this machine is classed as a K708:08
treachbut it's also about what core it uses.08:08
treachI don't think you're on the same core as I.08:08
prologicany way to tell what march to use ?08:08
prologicany hints in /proc/cpuinfo ?08:09
treachwhat model does it claim to be?08:12
prologicmodel           : 808:13
treachapparently that's the Thoroughbred core.08:15
aonthat's what my TB says it is08:16
prologicwhich menas ? :)08:16
treachit's old. :P08:16
aonmine's from 200208:16
prologicwell of course it is :)08:16
prologicdo I look like I'm made of money!08:17
prologicI'd have the new AMD quad-core as a desktop if I had money :)08:17
aoni wouldn't08:17
aoncomputers are a bad investment :)08:17
prologicI wouldn't mind a few dozen sbc's with decent chips and ram with gigabit ethernet cards :)08:18
treachbah, if you're using windows you *need* a dual core.08:18
prologicall clotted into a nice case08:18
* treach had the misfortune trying to fix up a 2.1 Celeron with 256MB ram the other day. *gah*08:19
prologic$ netcat -v -z -w 3 312808:20 [] 3128 (squid): Connection refused08:20
prologicanyone get the same result for that ip/port ?08:20
treachprologic: to give a more serious answear, look in the gcc manual under "athlon-4"08:22
treachand then take a look in /proc/cpuinfo at the "flags" line.08:22
prologic1.29% increase by changing int to long :)08:27
treachreally? that's interesting..08:28
prologicI can't see any other ways to optimize it08:29
onestepit's usual for 64-bit processors08:29
onestepno time consumed by converting int to long, which is more "native" for them :)08:31
treachyes, I realised that when I thought about it a bit.08:32
onestepI want a 64-bit CRUX... :(08:32
onesteppure 64-bit, not multilib08:33
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treachthe source is out there. :)08:34
onestepmaybe it's the time to introduce it in 2.3? :)08:34
onestepoh yes... :)08:34
onestepsome day I've built a 64-bit CLFS...08:34
onestepthat was cruel :)08:35
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treachhonestly, I think most cruxers still are on 32-bit. Also, there are still plenty of issues with applications if you try to go pure 64 bit, as I'm sure you're aware of.08:36
onestepyes, that's why I am using a good old 32-bit CRUX :)08:37
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prologicmy dsl2 link is experiencing packet loss08:55
prologicmy other dsl link is fine08:55
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rehabdolli had problems compiling lots of crux stuff in 64bit D;08:58
onesteprehabdoll: you can use patches from CFLS or make your own ;)08:59
rehabdollyeah but that seemed like a pain in the arse so i gave it up :)09:00
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treach :P10:03
treachnot to me. *shrug*10:04
aonk :)10:04
aoni've been laughing at a old link myself for the last three days, though10:05
treachthree days? Must be really funny.10:05
aonnot really, no, it's somewhat related to this incident:
aonwhich itself isn't particularly funny either10:07
aoni'm just being weird10:07
treachwell. that guy seem to be weirder still. :)10:08
treachseems like a good way got get yourself diabetes or something as well.10:09
aonyes, but the video where a batman cartoon is combined with the soundtrack of that show is hilarious10:10
aoni always get tea into my lungs when i watch it10:10
treachheh, nice. :)10:11
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Romsterprologic, treach's gcc flags -march=athlon-4 be better as -mtune=athlon-421:06
Romster<prologic> any way to tell what march to use ? try uname :)21:10
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