IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2007-02-13

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Romsterregarding my pingouts i've finally fixed my problem so I should rarley pingout unless i saturate my bandwidth etc.02:47
* JKnife has fallen head over heals for crux02:47
JKnife <-- look at mem usage02:48
RomsterJKnife, hehe ist sweet arn't it02:48
teKI've got a problem. I'm using a S-ATA Controller +devices, driver is kernel-builtin, Controller AND Disks get listed during startup but udev does not seem to create the according /dev/sdN devices.. what could be wrong? I also tired enabling the SCSI Subsys + SCSI Disk support without success.02:51
treachJKnife: Nice. :)02:56
JKnifecheck the udev rules02:56
JKnifetreach: :)02:56
teKJKnife: udev docs say the device nodes a created *anyway* with the default names if no rules apply02:57
teK*are created ..02:58
JKnifemaybe you have a bad rule?02:58
* JKnife shrugs02:58
teKcrux default02:58
JKnifedunno what to tell ya.. I have never had problems with udev.. then again I use ide02:58
treachteK: what controller are you using? Afaik the sata/scsi stuff is still considered experimental.02:59
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stjepan_I have finally installed crux :)03:00
JKnifeI already have mine set up the way I like it03:00
stjepan_well, there's a problem03:00
stjepan_isn't there at least an example for /etc/inittab?03:01
teKtreach: it's Silicon Image Chipset (3112?) it worked in another CRUX-machine (which is unaccessible right now)03:01
stjepan_when I boot my crux, it asks for runlevel, there's not even a getty running03:01
teK< stjepan_> I have finally installed crux :) <-- wrong03:01
JKnifeI don't think it is installed03:01
treachteK: odd. I've got one of those here, works fine. :)03:02
stjepan_ok... why is that? Will I have to write inittab myself?03:02
teKof course they do.. theu are supported.. it's puzzling.03:02
teKstjepan_: you have to follow the installation instructions close(r)03:02
* JKnife thinks someone didn't read the handbook that is on the cd03:02
stjepan_I've got jaeger's "2.2-latest" iso...03:02
stjepan_no, I was reading it all the time03:03
JKnifeunoffical iso?03:03
treachJKnife: there is nothing wrong with it.03:03
teKtreach: is S-ATA still a part of the SCSI Subsys? Documentation/ did not elaborate on this03:03
treachit's just a handy way of sparing yourself some massive updates.03:03
JKnifeohh ok03:04
treachteK: well, maybe you have conflicting versions of drivers?03:04
JKnife=\ but sysup on my i586 wasn't that painful..03:04
stjepan_weird... the handbook says about /etc/rc* scripts, but I have non of these! only rc.d directory03:04
treachteK: Would you like to have a peek at my .config?03:04
stjepan_anybody knows what may be wrong?03:05
mike_kregarding experimentalness of ide subsystem
stjepan_and I have installed sysvinit03:06
teKtreach: would be nice03:07
treachmmh, I need to use /dev/sg0 for cdwriting, /dev/sr0 doesn't work.03:07
stjepan_are /etc/rc.* scripts in sysvinit package?03:08
teKthe weird thing is that it already worked out earlier.. (though it was not 2.6.19 or 2.6.20 but an older version)03:08
prologicstjepan_, no, they're in the rc package03:09
treachstjepan_: no. they are generally in the associated package03:09
stjepan_I don't get you...03:10
teK /etc/rc.d/* is installed per program03:10
stjepan_treach: rc package?03:10
prologicyou said /etc/rc.*03:10
stjepan_no, I mean rc.* scripts (rc.single, rc.modules, rc.local etc.)03:10
prologicthose files are in the rc package03:10
prologicfiles in /etc/rc.d/* are with their associated port/package like treach said03:10
stjepan_*rebooting and trying*03:11
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prologicpeople with eyesight need their eyes removed :)03:11
prologicwonder why he'd need to know that anyway :)03:12
prologicbtw, are we going to make any use of the modifications I made to rc for use with dash ?03:13
treachnot afaik, even if I'd be for it.03:14
prologicit was just a waste of time then :)03:14
prologicbut fun nonetheless ;)03:14
treachit wasn't a waste of time.03:14
treachit proved feasability - and I'm using it. :)03:15
prologicahh cool :)03:15
prologicyeah I'm using it too :)03:15
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stjepan_installing rc fixed it :) tnx03:20
stjepan_I'm amazed how fast booting was ... :-o03:20
stjepan_however, there are few kernel warnings03:21
treach*don't* skip core packages unless you know what you're doing..03:21
stjepan_like import.c: blah blah something about mouse blah03:21
JKnifethere WARNINGS.. nothing is wrong03:21
stjepan_yes, but I can't see those :)03:22
teKtreach, prologic what are these changes you are talking about?03:22
stjepan_I wish I know how to vanish the warnings03:22
treachteK: we played with using dash for the initscripts03:22
stjepan_JKnife, do you know?03:22
JKnifestjepan_: ._. the warnings are there from gcc differences, C stanerds changing, etc03:23
teKaren't they /bin/sh compatible?03:23
treachit is, but bash isn't :)03:23
treachand the ordinary scripts depend on bash03:23
stjepan_JKnife, you don't hate those warnings?03:23
JKnifecause I don't sit and stare at it compile.. I have better things todo03:23
stjepan_it's at boot03:24
teKwhere's the point?03:24
teKbash isn't.. throw it away :-)03:24
JKnifeat boot.. does it boot and everything work?03:25
JKnifethen IGNORE the warnings03:25
stjepan_ok I'm IGNORING them ;)03:25
stjepan_next problem: weird high screen resolution when booting... how to change it?03:26
stjepan_(don't blame me, the handbook says nothing about it)03:26
treachgoogle have lots on it though...03:27
stjepan_so I just pass vga=normal to kernel in lilo config?03:28
stjepan_isn't normal used by default? the only options I pass to kernel is quiet03:28
stjepan_treach: what then?03:28
treachare you refering to your terminal, or some wierd X problem?03:29
stjepan_no, X is not installed (yet)03:29
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stjepan_it's screen console resolution03:29
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treachok, then you could try vga=normal I suppose. Otherwise it's google..03:30
stjepan_*rebooting and trying*03:30
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JKnifeo.O VGA=791 is nice03:31
JKnifeok.. bbl dishes03:31
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Romsterhrmm i have that controler teK03:32
Romsterand its fine.03:33
treachno it isn't..03:36
treachit works in windows/linux/openbsd, and then it sucks for the rest. :/03:36
treach+ I PipeRead "if [ `uname -n` = $FVWMStandardHost ]; then \ echo Exec rm -f $HOME/.fvwm/icons/\*; heh, I hope that comes back to bite him in the ass some day. :P03:43
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minuxHörrni grabbar03:48
minuxWhat is the command to count line output from a command? I've forgotten it.03:48
minuxls | ...03:48
minuxThanks =)03:49
teKI personally dislike dawicontrol as it left as alone one time we needed its raid 'functionality'03:50
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treachyou don't need its "raid" functionality.03:51
treachyou don't want it either :)03:51
teKthis 'server' came preconfigured with it so my colleagues relied on it..03:52
teKit was a prodoctive machine and it cost two days + paid support from a software vendor to bring it back online03:52
teKthe sole reason I'm using it is it was a gift and I only use it as a simple S-ATA controllerr03:54
treachjust don't use that "raid" capability, just use pure sw raid / mirroring if you want it.03:55
treachit's not slower and a whole lot more reliable.03:55
teKit was set up the same way with two different discs :-)03:56
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stjepan_I can't set resolution with vga=<whatever>03:58
stjepan_in lilo03:58
guaquago see #lilo03:58
teKhave you run /sbin/lilo after altering lilo.conf03:58
stjepan_also, I can't install xorg7... it can't download libdrm from :(03:58
stjepan_teK, of course03:59
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JKnifestjepan_: well.. duh freedesktop has been down for a couple days now04:00
guaquawell go download it from somewhere else04:00
JKnifelook for a gentoo mirror =P04:00
stjepan_ahh where are those mirrors?04:03
stjepan_there are only for X.Org, but not for DRI04:03
teKwasn't there a port by Han: bootscripts-sh-compatible or so?04:06
teKI'd consider beeing bash-independent a good thing04:06
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teKI will look for all scripts using /bin/bash in CRUX tonight..04:07
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stjepan_JKnife, are you serious?04:09
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guaquawe don't know everything04:09
treachteK: good, then all you'll have to do is to persuade "the powers that be" that it's a good idea. :)04:10
stjepan_are there at least .pkg.tar.gz packages?04:10
treachmaybe you have better luck than han. :X04:10
stjepan_here are gentoo distfiles:
stjepan_may I use that?04:11
treachNo, the internet police will arrest you in 2 seconds if you even think about it.04:11
teKwell.. I wish more 'smart' people would write Shelscripts with #!/bin/mycoolshell to make all people realize this is simply dumb..04:12
stjepan_treach, yeah, but are those vanilla?04:12
treachwhy shouldn't it? and if it isn't you'll notice.04:12
treach(md5sum error)04:12
teKof course nobody notices as almost everybody has got bash installed..04:12
stjepan_ok, rebooting and trying.... :)))04:12
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treachteK: well, ubuntu/debian uses dash for running scripts..04:13
treachso I bet someone is going to take notice. :)04:13
teKI got flamed for advocating /bin/sh over /bin/bash :>04:14
treach(there is an entire whinefest thread about it at ubuntu somewhere.)04:14
teK /bin/sh links to dash in Ubuntu?04:14
treachapparently, yes04:14
treachls -lha /bin/sh04:15
treachlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Nov 11 22:46 /bin/sh -> dash04:15
teKah, ok04:15
teKI wonder why there is no plain sh for Linux.. or does this exist?04:15
teK[tek@nerva:~]% ls -l /bin/sh04:15
teK-r-xr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  128043 Mar 23  2005 /bin/sh*04:15
teKthat's netbsd..04:15
JKnifewth did he reboot?04:16
treachseems so.04:16
JKnifewth = why the hell04:16
treachread that as "What the hell" :/04:16
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treachWUS= Windows User Syndrome. :)04:17
Romsteri managed to get to download the new mime types04:17
JKnifelol i like that one04:17
Romstertreach, good one04:17
treachthanks, I rather like it myself.04:18
JKnifeteK: yes there is plain ol sh for Linux, but every one uses bash..04:20
* JKnife shrugs04:20
treachwell, everyone except debian and the *buntus.04:21
JKnifeusing bash breaks cross BSD/Linux scripts04:21
JKnifeo.O debian doesn't use bash?04:21
treachnot for running scripts04:21
JKnifeuhmm.. I was using etch not to long ago. and didn't nnotice04:22
treachit's slow as hell for that kind of massive scripting they are doing.04:22
JKnifeeveryone just needs to use sh for scripts and zsh for the prompt04:22
treachnote, they aren't using dash as your loginshell.04:22
treachthat's bash. it's just for that massive dpkg configure crap.04:22
JKnifei figured that when you said "not for running scripts" :)04:23
JKnifedamn.. i need some sleep.. 5:30am04:24
JKnifeand i have class at 8 ._.04:24
ningoteK: there is no "plain sh" for netbsd as well. sh is a statically linked korn shell04:26
teKthere has to be more magic as statically linkin04:27
teKksh NetBSD 2.0_STABLE:   # tests 6856 passed 2584 failed 4272     sh NetBSD 2.0_STABLE:    # tests 6856 passed 1176 failed 5680 ordered 133604:27
treach:P ->
teKDavid Laight has changed NetBSD's (a)sh  to pass all the IFS tests in this regression test.04:28
teKyeah, that's the way to go .04:28
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* j^2 tips hat12:00
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stjepan__ports -l | grep xterm says nothing12:18
stjepan__where's xterm? I'm using xorg712:18
jjpkI don't use it, but then again I do not have it installed, either.12:19
jjpkInstall rxvt-unicode for example.12:19
stjepan__ah, ok12:21
aonit's in contrib iirc12:21
aonhm, no12:21
jjpkI can't find it in contrib.12:21
aonyeah, i think han had it12:22
jjpkThat would explain why it's gone.12:22
stjepan__anybody here uses fglrx?12:22
ningostjepan__: you can use prt-gets search12:22
thrice`han has it in his repo, yes12:23
jjpkprt-get search is fine, but it will look under the ports you have listed in /etc/prt-get.conf12:24
jjpkIt would have not even helped you, so no loss :p12:24
guaquaports -l ?12:24
jjpkI thought it will list everything under /usr/ports12:25
ningojjpk: maybe he has the respective repro listet in prt-get.conf, who knows?12:27
jjpkCould be, but as you said, who knows. :p12:29
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stjepan__hi jaeger12:35
stjepan__jaeger: do you have a nvidia card?12:36
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jaegerstjepan__: yes12:37
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JineAnyone there?12:40
stjepan__me :)12:42
JineHello! :)12:42
JineI got a question..12:42
JineIsent Crux 2.2 OLD? I cant find any information about the packages but.. Isent it?12:42
stjepan__crux2.2 is the current version12:42
JineYeah, I know.. But all the packages are old.. Does it exist any development version or so? "Unstable"?12:43
stjepan__there is updated 2.2 iso12:44
jaegeronce installed, crux is kept updated via a ports system12:44
stjepan__jaeger: is that it?12:45
stjepan__I use your iso and everything is very up-to-date12:46
Jinejaeger: That is? Newer then officell crux 2.2?12:47
jaegerJine: yes; it's an ISO with packages updated when I get time to update them12:47
JineOokk! :)12:48
stjepan__jaeger: why isn't it official?12:48
Jinejaeger: Ok, But.. For example Apache HTTP server, the newest ported version is 2.0.59?? I want 2.2.x? :(12:48
stjepan__Jine: no problem, ports are there for you ;)12:48
stjepan__it's very easy to make an updated apache package12:48
jaegerJine: if you don't see it on the CD, check the portdb, - if you don't see it there, make your own version :)12:49
Jinestjepan__: Ok? :) I download and try it out again.. I used Version 2.1 before.. but it was some time ago.. :)12:49
stjepan__jaeger: what's format is used in the crux world: DDMMYYYY or MMDDYYYY?12:50
jjpkIt depends on the system locale. Default is "POSIX" so I assume it is en_us12:52
stjepan__and it is... DDMMYYYY?12:52
jjpken_us is probably MMDDYYYY12:53
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Jinejaeger: WOW.. NICE updated crux! :D13:02
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thrice`Jine: and if that doesn't work out, crux 2.3 is in the works13:07
thrice`(or so they say)  ;)13:07
treachI'd stay with jaeger's iso.13:08
JineOk! :)13:08
JineDoes the "net-install" updated version of crux (jaeger) install newer packages then the full-cd?13:09
jaegerit installs the same versions as the full updated cd13:09
Jineok :)13:09
JineThx :)13:09
jaegerit's easy to fake into installing newer or older ones, it gets the list from the FTP/HTTP url you give it13:09
jaegerbut by default they are the same13:09
JineTell me more about that, Fake install NEWER?13:10
JineI just booted the cd now.. :) (Netinstall)13:11
JineAha! :) Now i understand.13:11
JineHmm.. eth0: error fetching interface information: device not found? :(13:12
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thrice`is the module loaded ?13:12
JineHow do i do that? ;)13:12
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treachahum.. Heard of ubuntu?13:12
jaegerJine: modprobe <module>13:13
JineCut it off.. Im not a totaly noob, but im not familer with modules and kernel-kind of problems.13:13
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jaegerof course, you'll need to know which module that is13:13
thrice`Jine: how much linux experience do you have ?13:13
Jinethrice`: Some.. and is my BEST friend.. :)13:14
thrice`Jine: fair enough; what NIC do you have ?13:15
JineLike i said, Google is my best friend.. Mobprobe 8139too :) Done! Thx :)13:16
Jine(Realtek 8139 btw)13:16
Jine"Welcome! This script will attempt to install CRUX via an http..." :)13:17
JineSo far, so good!13:17
prologicwhat script is this ?13:21
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JineThe "net-setup" from the Netinstall CD i downloaded from jaeger...13:23
Jinecrux-2.2-latest-netinst.iso ...13:23
prologicnice work jaeger13:24
JineI AGREE! :)13:24
jaegerthanks :) I still have some features to add to it (like proxy support) but haven't had time recently13:24
prologicall we need is a net-setup that'll replace an existing distro remotely :)13:24
prologicjaeger, need some help ?13:25
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stjepan__hi again13:25
jaegernot at the moment, but thanks for asking :)13:25
stjepan__jaeger: I'm using your gnome packages13:25
stjepan__I can install entire gnome with prt-get depinst --install-scripts gnome13:26
stjepan__however, I don't want gnome-user-docs13:26
stjepan__can I exclude it somehow?13:26
stjepan__or I have to install every port manually?13:26
jaegerrun prt-get deptree gnome, find where gnome-user-docs is required, and edit the port that requires it13:26
jaegeror --exclude13:26
* jaeger hasn't heard of that one13:27
prologicI did _think_ that was a prt-get switch13:27
prologicI think I"m wrong13:27
thrice`no, i've heard of something similar13:27
prologicit's 5am :)13:27
* prologic drinks Earl Grey13:28
prologicyou guys work that one out :)13:28
prologicwhere is cptn these days anyway ?13:28
prologicahh ignore :) ta treach13:28
treachhe retired13:28
prologicreally ?13:28
prologicsince when ?13:28
JineUrl to netinstall packages? Shall it be ?13:28
stjepan__treach: it works :)13:29
jaegertry without crux/packages.lst13:29
prologicwho's taking over prt-get ?13:29
treachprologic: he retired to enjoy his swiss bank account a couple of months ago.13:29
* stjepan__ got 3d acceleration... one step forward to xgl :)13:29
prologicthat's sad :/ he was cool :)13:30
treachaye, but better that than doing something you don't quite feel like/ don't have enough time/energy for.13:31
prologicso anyone maintaining prt-get these days ?13:32
treachno idea.13:32
tilmanit's officially unmaintained i think13:33
jaegerthere's no active development as far as I know13:33
stjepan__hi tilman ... if you can hear me :(13:33
Jinejaeger: Dosent work.. :( I tryed all of them.. (both with and without netinst, crux and packages.lst13:33
treachtilman: iirc cptn offered to maintain it for a while.13:33
jaegerJine: the default one should have worked, too13:34
treachie, even after his retirement. :)13:34
prologicwell I could take over the development of it if you guys want13:34
prologiccptn always wanted me to do something at one point - but left :)13:34
Jine:/ It dosent.. :S Wierd.. wait.. i check my network config.13:34
stjepan__mesa3d installs /usr/lib/
stjepan__however, fglrx driver installs it too... is a backup of mesa somewhere saved?13:35
Jinejaeger: Ahh.. damn i forgot the dns config ;P13:35
jaegerthat would do it, heh13:36
tilmanssimon has a nice port for fglrx13:36
tilmanhas had, it seems :(13:36
stjepan__/usr/lib/ - anyone knows something about this?13:37
stjepan__tilman: talking to me?13:38
tilmanno, i'm mentioning fglrx because i love it so much13:38
stjepan__didn't you /ignore me?13:38
thrice`don't we all :)13:38
stjepan__tilman: what's your ati card?13:38
stjepan__mine is Radeon 960013:39
stjepan__also, it seems ssimon repository is dead, it's not in the repository list and I can't download the .httpup from the crux mailing list13:41
treach@seen ssimon13:42
clbtreach: ssimon was last seen in #crux 16 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 41 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <ssimon> ...13:42
JineDamn, i feel like a complete idiot/newbie. How the hell do i config the dns config?13:42
Jine@seen Jine13:42
clbJine: Jine was last seen in #crux 5 seconds ago: <Jine> Damn, i feel like a complete idiot/newbie. How the hell do i config the dns config?13:42
Jine^^ :P13:42
guaquajust add the name servers to /etc/resolv.conf13:42
stjepan__Jine: the handbook says it all13:43
stjepan__jaeger: I have a question about your packages13:43
JineAnd if the file dosent exist? And i cant find anything to restart the network/inetd with? :/ (Im using the Netinstall Livecd)13:44
jaegerthere's no need to start/stop/restart the network, it's all manual13:44
stjepan__your cvs xgl packages use already checkouted xgl sources... why doesn't the Pkgfile get the sources from cvs?13:44
jaegeryou can either run a dhcp client or configure it static13:44
jaegerstjepan__: the cvs checkouts were, at the time, EXTREMELY slow. checking them out annoyed the hell out of me13:45
Jinejaeger, is any dhcp client included? I cant find i either..13:45
thrice`Jine: dhcpcd ?13:45
stjepan__jaeger: that's the only reason? CVS checkouts are just fine today... is it ok for Pkgfiles to cvs checkout xgl?13:45
jaegerthat's the only reason13:45
JineAhh damn, i missed tha last d :P Only looked for dhcpc :P13:45
stjepan__Jine: you can also run dhcpcd at boot time13:46
stjepan__Jine: see "6.1.5. Network configuration" in the handbook13:47
stjepan__err it's 6.1.513:47
JineThx!! :)13:47
JineI check!13:47
stjepan__omg, it's 6.1.4... uhhh my fingers o-O13:47
treachah, evidence of rtfm. ;)13:48
Jinehehe :) It worked.. :) THX!13:48
prologicginac nice :)13:48
stjepan__treach: learnt that here ;)13:48
prologicswiginac even better :)13:48
treachprologic: wtf? boiling tea from funny mushrooms again?13:49
prologicyeah :)13:49
prologicseems so13:49
tilmanstjepan__: x800 gto13:49
prologicno ginac is a C++ CAS13:49
prologicand swiginac python swig bindings ot it13:49
prologicall quite active too13:49
stjepan__tilman: do you use xgl/aiglx?13:49
JineI got a x800gt ;) btw :P haha ^^13:50
stjepan__I'll never buy an ati card again... >:-(13:51
JineDoes it exist any good page for finding information about the opt packages? What each package is and so on?13:51
jjpkprt-get ftw13:51
Jinestjepan__: I didnt buy it, i got it 4 free from a frind :)13:51
treachprt-get {info,dsearch}13:52
prologicJine, prt-get info <port>13:52
Jinejjpk: I dont installed crux yet!! :P13:52
prologicprt-get list -vv13:52
JineSomething webbased. ?13:52
jjpkIn other words, man prt-get is an excellent starting point once it is installed.13:52
prologicJine, the crux ports db13:52
JineI cant find any information abaout them :( Description or so?13:54
* treach wonders about how long jue is about to keep the xfce ports in opt..13:54
thrice`yeah, I was curious about that as well13:54
tilmanstjepan__: no, but i don't use the radeon atm anyway ;D13:54
treachafter all, it's v4.2, and there is a separate repo for 4.413:54
jjpkOut of date software is a bug so there should be a bug report filed.13:56
jjpkupdate the ports or remove them.13:56
stjepan__ahh I can't find the command to list what packages are going to be installed13:56
tilmantreach: until 2.3 is released i think13:56
prologicthere are xfce ports in opt now ?13:56
prologicwow weird :)13:57
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JineDo i neet Fakeroot? (opt package) I think its looks nice, but do i need it? :P ^^13:59
stjepan__Jine: probably no13:59
thrice`prologic: you're way behind on things :)13:59
prologicyou don't need most things in opt :)14:00
pitillono? seems a good way to make packages... and fakeroot is a dep....14:00
prologicthrice`, yes yes I know :)14:00
prologicfull-time athelete - part-time student14:00
prologicI don't have time for my own stuff even :)14:00
stjepan__Jine: just install it14:00
pitillono, just understand it14:00
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prologicbah I hate SF's JS menu shit :/14:02
prologicthey're old site interface was so much better14:02
JineI did :)14:03
JineSF's? :/14:03
tilmansourceforge, n00b14:04
prologicyes you nood :)14:04
thrice`what happend to google being your best friend?  ;)14:04
prologicnoob* even :)14:04
stjepan__don't bash him just because he's a n00b14:05
tilmani think irc might be bad for productivity14:05
thrice`oh, I *know* it is; my failure homework only has 3 lines :)14:06
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prologicNukeZone is very bad for productivity :)14:06
tilmanthrice`: :D14:06
ningothrice`: cat irc.log >
thrice`if only ;)14:07
prologiccat irc.log | html2ps | mutt -s "My homework" my-teacher@... :)14:07
treachstjepan__: noobs should be bashed. Noobs are people who know nothing and expects to be spoon-fed.14:08
tilmani doubt html2ps will like irc.log14:08
prologicwho cares :)14:08
prologicteacher won't know the difference ;P14:08
tilmanyour teacher?14:08
prologicI should try and do an assignmend this semester with xchat :)14:09
ningoprologic: UUOC14:09
stjepan__treach: no, noobs should be welcome, they will learn everything, just give them a chance... remeber you was a n00b before too14:09
treachNo, I was never a n00b.14:09
tilmanah, the same old n00b reply14:09
thrice`stjepan__: normally, yes.  CRUX is more of an advanced distro, generally14:09
* tilman sheds a tear for a n00b14:09
treachI was a beginner, once.14:09
thrice`not I14:10
thrice`actually, I still suck at linux14:10
stjepan__we all were and we all still are :P14:10
treachthrice`: no, we know you were born as an engineer.14:10
stjepan__thrice`: yes, that's true14:10
thrice`aye - handicapped from the beginning14:10
treachthat's why you managed to "accidentally" shut down sshd. :P14:10
prologicgawd cln is a bitch to compile - almost as bad as glibc :)14:11
thrice`I forget to load it at boot, and restarted in the morning after a power-outage14:11
stjepan__thrice`: when I was a total noob, I tried gentoo (you know how difficult it is to install) and I have learned everything, I have tried many many distros, for noobs and for experts, even if I was a noob. In the end, I have learned A LOT. And I'm using Linux for 2 years now...14:11
treachok, that makes more sense.14:11
treachstjepan__: being / not being a n00b isn't necessarily related to how long you've been using somthing.14:12
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ningoI, for example, am a n00b on everything. But who isn't?14:13
tilmani hope i'm not :(14:13
treachn00bs ask questions and expects people to tell them everything. beginners read books/googles etc.14:13
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prologicstarting with redhat 6 is a bad idea :) - it discourages you from leanring/using any linux!14:14
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stjepan__treach: so point them to the books14:14
stjepan__treach: just like you have pointed me to the handbook... uhh yeah I didn't listen to you very much, sry  :( but....14:15
thrice`somethings, like how to load modules, should be looked up14:15
prologicjust read the lfs book :)14:15
treachthat's one of the other carachteristics of a n00b, they don't listen..14:15
stjepan__treach: noobs will have a lesson, just like I had it with being ignored by tilman14:16
treachbesides, a lot of the books I once used are probably terribly out of date.14:16
stjepan__yes, I'm a noob :)14:16
stjepan__treach: isn't your knowledge updated every day?14:16
tilmanannoying discusison14:17
prologictilman, yeah and I think I"m on everyone's ignor elist :)14:17
stjepan__many people have ignored me, and it was mostly my fault :( however, I always have a lesson14:18
stjepan__tilman: ok, this is the end of the discussion, if you want so14:18
thrice`tilman: out of curiosity, are you going to push xorg 7.2 before the crux release ?14:18
tilmanthrice`: i'm going to push it when it's released, yeah14:19
tilmanxorg is a bit insane atm14:19
tilman7.3 is set to follow in < 1 month iirc14:19
tilmanno sign of 7.2 final yet o_O14:19
stjepan__will 7.3 have input redirection?14:19
stjepan__or maybe 7.2? David is working at input redirection atm14:20
thrice`oh; I thought I saw an entry on their ftp for 7.2 a couple weeks back, but can't find it anymore14:20
tilmandunno about the ftp, but 7.2 isn't out yet14:20
jaegerI wonder if 7.2 fixes the "single device can't be more than one input device" problem14:20
tilmannever heard of that14:21
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jaegerthe easiest example I can think of is the diNovo edge - it's a bluetooth keyboard with a mouse device built into it14:21
jaegercan't use the mouse at the same time as the keyboard with the current xorg offerings14:21
prologicand my current xorg install is still broken with the bug where ou can't change res with ctrl+alt+0-914:21
tilmanoy, that sucks14:21
prologicerr ctrl+alt+plus I mean14:22
treach <- first book on linux I read. :)14:23
stjepan__my first book was man pages :)14:25
xicmy first book was the manual that came with redhat 6.114:25
treachmanpages aren't books.14:25
guaquai only read apis14:26
treachI was just trying to illustrate that the litterature I once used, is of limited use today.14:26
stjepan__treach: ahh come on ;)14:26
treachit seems like I read an earlier version as well.14:27
thrice`the slackware book is the only linux reference I have read, I think14:28
stjepan__can I blacklist a module and prevent it from being loaded or do I have to put a rmmod command in rc.local to unload it?14:28
treachhow about not loading it at all?14:28
stjepan__treach: yes, but how to do that? it's loaded automatically14:29
thrice`what module ?14:29
stjepan__annoying one ;)14:29
thrice`that shouldn't load automatically...have you booted into your system yet ?14:29
stjepan__I could remove it from kernel config, but I want to leave it as a module14:29
stjepan__thrice`: yes, I'm right now in it14:30
stjepan__useradd -G audio,video,wheel -m -s /bin/bash myuser14:31
stjepan__useradd: invalid numeric argument 'audio'14:32
stjepan__what's wrong here?14:32
thrice`groupadd audio14:32
stjepan__in what port is gpasswd tool?14:33
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JineI know a little about alot, i dont think im a n00b :)14:33
stjepan__how to add a user to a group?14:35
ningoread the fine manual14:36
ningoit rawks14:36
ningoit's totally spacy!14:36
ningoand, the important part, it makes your cock grow by a fair amount!14:36
stjepan__usermod? gpasswd tool should be in shadow port, but it's not...14:36
stjepan__jaeger: you there?14:37
thrice`use usermod14:37
stjepan__I _hate_ those xsltproc commands when installing some gnome packages14:37
thrice`again, google can handle these sort of questions VERY easily :_14:38
stjepan__xsltproc takes years to continue14:38
stjepan__just because of it I exclude gnome-user-docs and zenity14:38
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stjepan__jaeger: does this happen for you too?14:39
stjepan__it's killing me14:39
jaegerof course... but I'm patient :)14:40
stjepan__ahh it's so annoying14:40
stjepan__this reminds me on nights spent with compiling buggy stuff with gentoo14:41
* stjepan__ will just wait then......14:42
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pitillostjepan__, you may want to not use autoloading modules at your own kernel...14:57
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stjepan__pitillo: how?15:00
stjepan__how to disable those?15:00
pitilloif you are using that feature... you must know wich is....15:01
stjepan__pitillo: I just put "/sbin/rmmod pcspkr" in /etc/rc.local15:01
pitillothat is another option...15:02
stjepan__jaeger: what is that xml stuff anyway? can it be disabled?15:02
jaegerperhaps, haven't tried yet15:02
stjepan__jaeger: your xgl packges' version is 05012006... is this May 01 or January 05?15:05
jaegerprobably may15:06
stjepan__probably? those are your packages :)15:07
jaegerI told you I haven't used them in a long time15:07
stjepan__jaeger: yes, but there must be some common versioning style... DDMMYYYY or MMDDYYYY15:07
stjepan__I'm still in doubt which one to use15:07
jaegerwhy should there be a common one?15:08
jaegerthere's nothing official about those15:08
stjepan__jaeger: and what style do you recommend?15:08
jaegerwhatever style I expect most people to understand... which, when it comes to dates, means it's a toss-up15:09
stjepan__what's the config file where I define locales?15:09
stjepan__it seems all those .xml files are for various locales, where I don't need most of those15:11
stjepan__so that means I'm wasting time15:11
stjepan__jaeger: are there precompiled .pkg.tar.gz packages for gnome?15:18
jaegernot really15:19
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stjepan__why is crux forum removed?15:46
stjepan__mailing lists can't be a replacement for it15:46
jaegermail whoever set it up and ask them15:46
guaquaobviously you are in the minority, stjepan__15:47
tilmani think tri is the forum dude15:47
stjepan__are mailing lists as popular?15:47
tilmanmore popular15:48
stjepan__tilman: I'd say less... o_O15:48
jaegerthat's why the forum is closed, I take it15:48
stjepan__jaeger: it wasn't popular?15:48
jaegerI don't know, I've not been there... but do you think it would be shut down if it were popular?15:49
stjepan__forums are one of the main part for building a community, imo15:49
tilmaneverytime someone proposed a forum, lots of people start to yell15:49
tilmanso i think they just aren't popular15:49
jaegerI have no preference15:50
stjepan__anyway, forums have are many advantages over mailing lists15:50
jaegerwe've been through all this before, it's come up more than once15:51
guaquaand also have many disadvantages15:51
stjepan__guaqua: for example...?15:52
trihm the forum ;)15:55
guaquafor one that fact that you have to use an inferior gui to post messages and specifically go browse the forum instead of conveniently reading the messages in your favorite mail program15:55
trii was running it - but there were only 5 people using it after a few weeks so i decide to close it. it simply does not make sence to have a forum for such a small community like crux. and mailinglists are also very cool15:57
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JKnife^_^ i get to goto a discussion about international bus. and the VP of international affairs of redhat is gonna be speaking16:01
guaquainternational bus?16:01
JKnifedoing busniess in different countries16:02
guaquabusiness that is then? ;)16:02
trithe forum thing was just a experiment - maybe in a future time far far away from now there will be heaps of people begging for a forum - but for now: just use the mailinglist ;-)16:03
JKnifeor IRC16:03
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tilmantri: HAHA i told YOU!!! ;)16:05
tritilman: yes i know ;)16:05
tribut from experience you (i) learn... hopefully16:06
triJKnife: what is a VP ?16:06
JKnifevice presdient16:06
tilmanJKnife: president ;)16:07
JKnifestupid i (not as in me but as in the letter i)16:07
JKnife^_^ back down to 34mb ram used!16:08
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prologicjdolan, is famous Supybot your creation ?23:03
prologicahh nevermind23:06
prologicjsut re-read your page :)23:06
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