IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2007-02-27

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sepen|workmorning all02:21
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Roomstermorning sepen03:36
Roomsterhi pitillo ningo03:36
pitillohey Roomster03:40
drijenhey fellas03:41
aonhi hi03:42
Roomsterhi drijen aon03:42
drijenall night hw project ftl.03:42
drijeni'm going insane :(03:42
Roomsteramazing up still awake i've had a 30 minute nap snce 3pm monday and its tusday now.03:43
drijenabuot the same, pushing 40 something03:43
Roomsterbeen soldering more and then trying to fault find.03:43
drijenwhats keeping you up03:43
Roomsterheaps of coffee i guess03:44
drijenmakes me sleppy :-p03:44
drijenright now i'm trying to figure out open office abse03:44
Roomsterheck i've nearly been 30 hours without sleep now03:45
mike_kRoomster: could you consider updating gpgme and adding it to contrib? See acrux port for details (but probably ommit gnupg2 in dependancy list)03:45
Roomsterugh my nick...03:45
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drijenmike_k: let the man sleep! :-p03:46
mike_kdrijen: that was assumed03:47
Romstermike_k, hmm i'll look03:47
pitillowhy not contrib members starts adding ports contrib (2.3)?03:47
Romsteri nearly went though everything in my private repo last nite.03:47
mike_kpitillo: I'll wait for at least first release candidate03:48
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pitillomike_k, can be a good way to start testing them. (only a opinion)03:48
mike_kalso, why not to join ze club instead ? =)03:49
pitillo(in this way the contrib update can be done bit by bit instead of doing it when released first candidate)03:49
pitilloI do not know what is ze club03:49
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mike_kI mean, why there are so few contributors? Nearly every crux user can be helpful...03:50
Romstermike_k, there is one now i beleave03:50
Romsterprologic, made a good point a few days ago prologic has about 40% and me 20% for a total of 60% of contrib he said i hadn't done the figures03:51
prologicmike_k, I ask myself the same question03:52
prologicwe have so few contrib maintainres it seems03:52
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pitillomike_k, well, from my point of view, users can be helpfull to test/help, but contrib members must make ports in the better way (may be a user is not capacited to do it in the better way, I am not contrib member for this reason, I am far to dothings in the best way)03:52
prologicwe need to encourage more users to contirb03:52
drijenRomster: prologic us lazy bums who just need to use the stuff appreciate it beyond comprehension03:52
prologicpitillo, users can learn though03:52
prologicI mean most users that use crux are obviously not entire n00bs :)03:53
prologicyou have to at least understand the basics of linux, compiling stuff, the command line, etc03:53
prologicjust to install crux you have to type stuff :)03:53
pitilloprologic, true, but that learn way must be before add him to contrib members03:53
prologicof course03:53
prologicwhich is why there are guidelines for creating ports03:53
prologicand good documentation overall for just about eeverything03:54
pitilloprologic, be a contrib member is the same to say you understand CRUX way, not to be or not a noob.03:54
prologicit just takes some time to read and play :)03:54
Romsterdrijen, glad soemone does :)03:54
drijeni never bitch about the pakcages03:54
pitilloprologic, I think we need a bit of supervision.03:54
Romsteri started off as a newb and look what i do now.03:54
drijeni just fix em for myself and mvoe on03:54
pitilloRomster, you are a machine... :P03:54
prologicwell I'm quite happy to advocate and supervise anyone that needs it03:54
prologicthis stuff isn't that hard03:54
pitilloI think some dev or old contrib member can read private repos and use flispary to make ports candidates03:55
drijeni fixed one of ecaurx's ports a min ago03:55
Romsterpitillo, lol03:55
drijenwouldn't install amarok correctly03:55
Romsterdrijen, feedbacki is greatly appreacated03:55
drijenRomster: most of the time i don't know what i am doiong03:56
mike_kand someone making good ports doesn't mean he is very experienced user. he's the one on the way. it's not that hard.03:56
drijenit just happens that what i do, fixes it03:56
pitilloproposing one port of some repo (talking to packager/maintainer) can be a good way to get more contrib members and teach them... talking about errors/changes03:56
pitillomike_k, that means he understand the CRUX way.. and that is better than be a experienced users03:57
mike_kbut not harder03:57
pitillowell, I think is a bit hard. And sure we can do it better making more ports. (do not know if I explained well)03:58
mike_kpitillo: also, the reason many people avoid crux is to few ports. the want their favourite stuff, and not everyone is able to maintain all he wants himself. So, if you have ports, look at them, cleanup and try to share.04:00
prologicI agree mike_k04:00
prologicbut it's a catch 2204:00
prologicif we don't get our existing users to help maintain ports04:01
prologicwe scare of new users because of the lack of ports04:01
prologicthe whole concept behind crux is very strong though04:01
Romsterwhat the they don't update the page yet they release new versions on the ftp...04:01
prologicprolly why the rest of us exist :)04:01
Romsteri didn't look at that ftp mike_k :/04:01
prologicoh fuck04:01
prologicI just removed man :/04:01
mike_kRomster: I've noticed that by claws-mail trying to find new one (configure output)04:02
pitillomike_k, I tried/shared it. But no feedback got. May be they are not very used.04:02
Romsterprologic, dumbarse j/k04:03
prologicnot nice :)04:03
pitilloprologic, about amsn port. Is a good way to remove src (looked at it and lot of stuff that will not be used)? or can be done patching directly Makefile?04:03
prologicespecially coming form you :)04:04
mike_kpitillo: I doubt many users are signed up for other's personal repos. core/opt/contrib/gnome is the place where they will try to search.04:04
Romsterthats one thing if no one says anything they can't improve know what they are after04:04
prologicpitillo, amsn is updated04:04
pitillomike_k, if some poort is not provided by that repos, may be will use a private one (port/repo)04:04
prologicI do suggest you update to mine, as it's cleaner :)04:04
prologicless cruft :)04:04
namenlosmike_k: well, i use other's repositories (when they're not big)04:04
pitilloprologic, updating and reading. Thanks :)04:05
Romsteri'm only kidden well it makes up for that kick...04:05
prologicpitillo, rsync to my repo if you can't wait for contrib to sync :)04:05
prologicevery 15mins or so I think04:05
prologicnow time to write an xfce4 patch and send upstream04:06
mike_kprologic: maybe a /topic or a front page stating: "searching for contributors"?04:07
drijenmike_k: mike_k i find that to be untrue04:07
drijeni have found all that i need in crux's rpos04:07
drijenits when what i want is broken, that i start to think about other things :-p04:07
prologicmike_k, might work04:07
namenlosexcept wmii04:07
prologicdefinately need to update the site's wiki to include this stuff04:07
prologicand make it known and encourage users to actively contribute04:08
mike_kdrijen: without checking out personal/outdated/non-supported repos?04:08
prologicwether it's bug reports, or ports, or documentation04:08
prologictesting etc04:08
drijenmike_k: no i use others04:08
drijenbut i fin dthe big ones04:08
drijenecarux, gnome/kde, romster, jaeger etc04:08
drijenanything not in those i just grab the file, and pkgmk04:09
Romsterseems almost instant to me to contrib04:09
mike_kdrijen: is it handy afterall?04:09
drijenmike_k: heck yeah04:09
Romsternamenlos, big and quality are 2 diferent things.04:09
drijensaves me "go fetch package, find out it needs blah, fetch blah, blah needs blah04:09
mike_khow about updating those randomly fetched Pkgfiles?04:09
drijenetc ad nasueam04:09
drijenmike_k: its a small number04:10
drijenk3b for example, or transcode04:10
drijenor codeine04:10
drijeni don't need stuff like that updated every 10 seconds04:10
Romsterdrijen, i feel priveleged :)04:10
drijenRomster: huh?04:10
Romsterthat you use my repo :)04:11
drijenRomster: lol04:12
Romsterah yeah i useally sync the most useful stuff to contrib04:12
drijenRomster: when i want something, yours, jaegers, and hans are the ones i go to first04:12
drijenRomster: you have to understand04:12
drijenRomster: i *trust* your ports04:12
drijenas in04:12
drijeni *trust* that i can prt-get something from your repo and then get up and go have lunch04:13
drijeni *trust* that it will work no problems04:13
drijen98% of the time, thats what i get04:13
Romsteryes i make sure they don't do nasty things04:13
drijenusually when it failes a website has gone down04:13
Romsteri do have a very few that seemto be probomatic.04:13
aonluckily i'll nuke the disk of that machine today anyway04:14
drijenfor example, 10888 and cups have been screwed up for awhile04:14
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drijenRomster: may i propose an idea to help crux04:15
drijenrepo wise04:15
drijenguess not :(.04:18
mike_kanybody have an idea how to force wget to exclude certain files, while mirroring the site?04:20
drijenmike_k: write a script then exectute wget with -e04:21
prologic-X ?04:21
pitillomike_k, -R or --reject ?04:22
mike_k-X only for directories, and it does not work =(04:22
Romstermike_k, done.04:22
drijenyou could always pipe it into curl, but that'd be confusing fast :0p04:22
Romsterdrijen, sure04:22
mike_kpitillo: thanks, I was searching for /exclude04:23
drijenRomster: i lease some webspace04:23
drijenRomster: 20+GB, 2.2TB of bandwidth - it grows by the week04:24
drijenRomster: i'd be willing to host a few hundred or thousand .gz's04:24
Romsterweb space isn't a issue but go on. hmm04:24
prologicwhat are we talking about now ?04:24
drijenRomster: port builders could link their ports their instead of some random site that will go down or move files all the time04:24
Romsteri've been wanting to setup compiled ports/source ports for various arch's04:24
Romsterdrijen, good point.04:25
drijenRomster: i can't manage the svn ports, but i can do the major stuff04:26
drijenflux, kde, gnome, mplayer, etc04:26
prologicusing qemu it isn't hard to build crux for otehr archs04:26
prologicand this is why we moved to git to help maintain multiple archs in the first palce04:26
Romsterwell you'd have to talk to the ppl that do the others.04:26
Romsterprologic, thats my intention.04:27
prologicRomster, it's too much work for one person :)04:27
drijentrying to install gnome alongside kde, results in a nightmare.04:27
Romsterone set of ports, automated building04:27
drijenwhoever is in charge of those ports needs to redo the scripts some, or point me in the irection of fixing04:27
Romsterdrijen, i only ever tryed once to install gnome but back then gnome was broken so i went with kde :/04:27
drijenRomster: i just now tried to install gnome. with kde installed04:28
drijenit started crying immediatly.04:28
Romsterdrijen, shouldn't be a problem with gnome now?04:28
drijenRomster: it will bork out on pakages that are already installed04:28
Romsterfile conflicts?04:28
drijenno matter how many times you go -f or force or w/e it will kill the depinst04:28
Romsteri plan to run prtverify over my stuff againi'm sure i've even missed some stuff.04:28
drijenmpeg2dec killed mine04:29
Romsterdrijen, prt-get shouldn't oh right the depinst gets borked.04:29
drijenrefused to continue becuase it was already there04:29
Romsteryeah prtverify should install the missing deps then rebuild the ones that are already on the system if the depend on it, dunno something liekt hat be ok04:30
Romstererr prt-get*04:30
drijenneeds to interface with ldconfig too04:31
Romsterwonder if crux is in need of binary ports.04:31
Romsterldconfig is ran in pkgmk04:31
drijenRomster: i'd love to have a premade kde/gnome/openoffice install04:31
drijenchop 3 hours of compile04:31
Romsteri've got used to compiling :P04:32
drijensure, but sometimes i need it NOW.04:32
Romsteras you'd of known but yeah some quick to update system etc.04:32
Romsteryeah i get ya04:32
prologicthat's what pkg-get is for04:32
prologicand all someone needs to do is build opt/core/contrib04:33
Romsterbuild script in qemu todo it all04:33
prologicand maintain a crux dvd iso :)04:33
Romsternever used that one04:33
drijensay just who is in charge of crux anyway04:33
drijenas in, the master.04:33
prologicno idea04:33
Romsterah k.04:33
drijenthe guy that started it04:33
Romsterkeeps changing afaik or a small group or the whole comunity *shrugs*04:33
drijenevil empire with no evil emperor04:34
prologicmost likely tilman or sip or jaeger :)04:34
Romsterdrijen, i'd be intersted in building ports and uploading them to a server.04:34
prologicbut tbh I have no idea04:34
drijenRomster: www.drijen.net04:34
drijeni'd toss that in an instant04:35
drijenfree repo.04:35
drijenew, i jsut sneezed all over my arm04:35
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Romsterdrijen, as it is now i got a few gigs of source files sitting on my desktop04:39
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drijengod i love beyrl04:55
guaquahated it04:56
drijenits so insanely well thought out - its not just eye candy, its a work enviroment04:56
guaquacompiz was nicer04:56
drijenthat it is, but not so much i can't ignore the bugs04:56
drijencrux doesn't have compiz themes :-04:56
guaquawell it crashed on me so many times04:56
drijenmine only broke desktop switching04:56
drijenthe settings manager doesn't work either, but i attribute that to crux04:57
guaquaberyl settings manager works on ubuntu04:58
guaquacompiz's not on kubuntu04:58
drijenlol, *buntu04:58
drijensynonymus with buggy crap.04:58
drijenits buggy04:58
drijenin really abd ways04:58
guaquafor example?04:59
drijenit fails to save things a lot.04:59
drijenthe package system is locked down04:59
drijenand by failes to save things04:59
drijeni mean important things04:59
drijenlike text documents.04:59
drijenit crashes a bunch.04:59
guaquafails to save text documents?04:59
drijenslow as hell05:00
guaqualike when you rm -rf ~/05:00
guaquai don't get it05:00
drijenas in you click "SAVE"05:00
drijenand you file disappears down a black hole.05:00 not...05:00
* Romster keeps out of this one05:00
guaquawell that's not the distros fault05:00
drijenits happened countless times05:00
drijenyeah it is.05:00
drijenthey f'ed with it05:01
guaquaand by *buntu, you mean which text editor?05:01
drijennormal gnome/open office/w/e doesn't do that shit05:01
drijenguaqua: all of them.05:01
drijenit'll kill off portions of the /home too05:01
guaquai have no idea where you get these ideas from05:01
drijenpersonal XP.05:02
guaquai can sure as hell tell you that05:02
guaquacos never had any trouble05:02
drijenand that means?05:02
drijenif we both drive nissans  and mine breaks does that mean it was my fault?05:02
guaquamy "distro" hasn't destroyed any of my data05:02
aondrijen: yes05:03
* drijen slaps aon with a trout :)05:03
aonor well, i dunno about nissans05:03
guaquaif you go pimping your nissan, yes, then it's most likely your fault05:03
drijenguaqua: it pulled that crap, on 4 different systems, over the course of 1 year05:03
guaquai guess i can refer to mr. darwin here05:03
aonand/or fail to keep it in shape05:04
drijenall were default installs, no addons05:04
guaquawhat *buntu was it?05:04
drijenall were broken. slow.05:04
drijenbut god.05:04
guaquawas it only your system or can you find similar cases in bug reporting systems?05:04
drijenguaqua: 4 different systems05:04
guaquaor was it a buggy file system?05:04
drijenone of which was on friends computer, before i knew about the issue05:05
guaquadrijen: by your system, i mean the systems05:05
drijenguaqua: a laptop, 2 desktops, and my friends05:05
guaquathose sound like file system problems to mee05:05
drijenone was ext3 :-p05:05
drijendid the same as the rieser systems05:05
drijenguaqua: either call me a liar, or stop dancing :-p05:06
guaquawell i don't take one person's experiences as absolute truth05:07
drijenubuntu likes to lose passwords too05:07
drijenthat was fun.05:07
guaquamy uni uses ubuntus exclusively05:07
drijeni feel sorry for them05:07
guaquaand i think their choice wasn't a hasty one05:07
drijenguess a few cups of coffee while it loads isn't too bad :-p05:07
guaquaand again, i tend to think they have better view on the subject than you do05:07
guaquawhy turn computer off?05:08
guaquagotta go, off to one of those school *buntus05:08
drijeni was dissing on debian, thats not just an ubuntu thing05:08
guaquayou are on thin ice05:08
guaquabut -->05:08
guaquawe'll continue this later05:08
drijengranted, i've enjoyed pure debian in the past - just as i enjoyed what ubuntu did end user wise for gnome05:08
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drijengenerally on a database 1NF, the composite key will determine the whole table correct?05:11
guaquathe thing is, your claims about ubuntu being just generally buggy are not proven in any way05:22
guaquathe fact that you have "statistically" proven it corrupts hard drives doesn't pinpoint the problem to ubuntu05:23
* drijen sighs05:23
drijenguaqua: that was a long time ago05:24
guaquathe other common denominator here i see is you. did you try to "fix" all those 4 computers?05:24
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drijenmy point was, ubuntu did things no other system with the same software did05:24
drijenof course, can't go around losing data without knowing why05:24
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Romsteri'd be looking at anything common to the 4 pc's05:26
Romstermaybe they patch heaveily? dunno05:27
Romsteri'd be so looking over each pc finding out why whats common to all does downgrading or upgrading a program affect it etc.05:27
* drijen doesn't care - he cares about finishing this project, so that he can sleep05:27
drijenmy own brain is working against me05:28
drijeni can see this data in 3NF but it won't tell me how it got there05:28
* Romster is eating05:30
Romsterdrijen, maybe you need food?05:30
drijenRomster: i can't05:30
drijeni have no money to buy it with.05:31
drijenyou any good with databases, i just need a little guidance *puppy eyes*05:31
Romstermaybe sql is about all i dabble with.05:34
Romsternot sure what 3NF means.05:35
tilmanthere's three levels of normalization (?)05:36
tilman3nf is the third05:36
tilmannot sure what its called in english05:36
drijentilman: yes that is what i am after05:36
drijentilman: i need to sort this datbase from 1nf -> 2nf -> 3nf05:36
drijenproblem is, i can already see it in 3NF, i just don't know how i got there in my head05:37
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tilmanprologic: did you send it to my address?05:39
drijentilman:  /wrists :-p05:40
Romsterjsut got a coffee05:41
Romsterthis 'nf' is new, is it a type of table join operation? or table split for optomized searching on table.join05:42
drijenRomster: #NF refers to the lvl of normalization05:43
drijenfor example, 2NF has the primary keys sorted, and a few tranistive dependencies05:43
drijen3NF, has the primary keys only, dependencies gone05:43
drijenit sorts a large table into smaller ones05:43
prologictilman, yes05:45
Romsteri hand not got into that far.05:46
drijenits not hard, i just can't seem to come together for it atm05:46
tilmanprologic: that doesn't work05:46
tilmani happen to know that git 1.5.0 is out05:47
drijenand my book is rather poor :-p05:47
prologictilman, want mt to send you the .diff somewhere else ? :)05:47
Romsterwhats the patch do?05:48
prologicnothing :)05:48
prologicjust a git diff against opt/git05:48
Romsteroh lol k05:50
drijenRomster: before i forget, let me know i fyou want to use my webspace for that project - i'd be very pleased to help out in any way possible05:51
Romsterdrijen, yeah see how it goes, might jsut be what i'm after to try my other ideas out too.05:53
Romsterrather too tired to think of details tonite though05:53
drijenhehe same05:53
drijeni just feel that a centralised repo is a good idea - if it can be managed05:53
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Romsterdrijen, figure something out.06:03
Romsteri got some ideas i hadn't tryed yet.06:03
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jaegerhrmm... that faad2 update seems to break ffmpeg at least08:48
* j^2 waves at jaeger 08:52
j^2how's it hanging?08:54
jaegerin a stackable unification kind of way08:54
j^2heh...i cant think of anything witty to say after that :(08:55
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knightI'm having an issue wherein at boot my /home and swap partitions ( in fstab ) are not being mounted, instead returning mount: special device /dev/hda? does not exist.  These are logical parts of an extended partition, if there is an issue with that.  post login however mount -a or mounting individually brings everything up fine -- any ideas?11:03
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pitilloknight, found the same problem about 2 weeks ago. Rebuilding the kernel and adding inotify support fixes it. May be only rebuilding can fix that too. (Do not know why and do not know why that problem appers too)11:14
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treachone netsplit to rule them all.. or something. :/11:56
teKif you like them, join quakenet11:57
treachno thanks.11:57
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ningoto be honest, I experience less netsplits on qnet than here11:58
teKningo: /whois L11:59
teKQnet has the worst trust/capacity ratio12:00
teK* I guess12:00
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teKand L is back :-)12:04
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j^2does anyone have a good howto on openldap?13:59
aonnot me14:00
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ningoI have a problem: I want awk to print the n-th element of a list. The problem is, that I can't use "n=1 awk {'print $n'}" because the string is encapsulated in '' and thus is read as $n and not 1. Without the '' awk moans about syntax errors. How can I still pass the var to awk?14:50
jaegerawk '{ n=1; print $n }'14:52
jaegerdoes it have to be an environment var?14:53
jaegerawk '{ n=ENVIRON["X"]; print $n }'14:54
ningoit is14:59
ningojaeger: awk -w 'n="$n '{ print $n }' does the job14:59
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alancioI am having a strange problem, /dev/ptmx is not created!16:50
alancioI had to create it by hand, whats going on here?16:50
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sepenjaeger, gl-select md5sum mismatch found18:26
sepengit-update-index? or my erro?18:27
jaegerI'll check18:27
sepenIm doing ports -u before18:28
sepenbut returns me the same18:28
jaegerupdated; thanks for the heads-up18:33
sepenthanks to you18:40
sepenjaeger, more mistakes xD18:42
sepen/usr/bin/gl-select: line 10: Feb: command not found18:42
sepenthe changelog lines need #18:42
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sepenwell, Im going to bed, later!18:53
* sepen z..zzZZz.z18:53
jaegerer... they have it on my end...18:56
* jaeger scratches his head18:57
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bd2prologic, I've just read Zoffix issue.. you rock ;-) chess was a brilliant idea19:10
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jaegeranyone familiar with initramfs and switch_root in particular?19:32
thrice`nope :-\19:36
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prologicbd2, :)19:55
prologicI love chess19:56
bd2Me too. I play them on my hx4700 (running crux ;-), but I can't say that I'm good player :-/20:02
AkiraYukigood nightt :-D20:02
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prologicbd2, wanna have a game ? :)20:04
bd2prologic, haha.. no! ;-)20:06
* bd2 scared, really :-)20:06
prologicdamn :/20:07
bd2prologic, btw.. are you wins gnuchees?20:08
prologiceh ?20:09
prologicwhat do you mean ?20:09
bd2gnuchess - chess program20:10
prologicdo I use gnuchess ?20:10
prologicI have webchess installed on my website20:11
bd2heh.. actually question was if you can beat gnuchess ;-) I can't20:11
prologicyeah I can20:12
bd2heh.. mine luck that I've refused to have a game.. ;-)20:17
bd2regarding zoffix, I think that guy probably was just drunk, or had a very bad day20:18
prologicnah he was the same the next day20:19
bd2(Can't imagine how bad day should be to behave such way..)20:19
prologicI went back yesterday to say hi20:19
prologicstill same ol ZOffix20:19
bd2hmm :-/20:19
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Romsterdoes rejmerge have a edit option like on merge to merge changes but not remove lines marked with a minus sign? or do i have to keep using 'keep' then edit it manually.22:28
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prologicof course it has an edit option22:42
prologicit's always been there22:42
prologicE - edit22:42
prologicK - Keep22:42
prologicU - Upgrade22:42
prologicS - Skip22:42
Romster[K]eep [U]pgrade [M]erge [D]iff [S]kip?22:45
Romsterif i Merge it'll not conflict and give me the edit option?22:46
Romsteri might have to try an example..22:46
Romsteradd new lines but not remove - lines on a merge22:46
Romsterfor lines that don't exist22:47
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