IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2007-03-11

rehabdolllol01:38
Romster:P01:56
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tilmanRomster: sober again? ;)07:32
Romsterlol been sober for ages now07:33
Romsterfftw por ti messed witht he compiler flags to gain more speed07:34
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tilmanRomster: it's uncommon anyway07:34
Romsterif you really hate me messing with flags i'll remove all the flags and then add them flags to my private repo version...07:34
tilmani see that it's a library that gains from optimization07:34
tilmanbut.07:34
caronot a lot of people use fftw in computer science. It's nice :)07:35
tilmanRomster: yeah, i'd rather see a less ricish version in _contrib_07:35
RedShiftfftw?07:35
carois blas/lapack ported too ?07:35
tilmancaro: http://crux.nu/portdb/07:35
caroa free lib that foes fft07:35
carofast Fourier transform07:36
Romsterthose optimsations i consider gainful without being restrictive07:36
Romsteror prone to breaking07:36
carotilman: what is annoying with that site is that I need to look at *all* the contributors to see all the packages07:37
caroisn't there a global list ?07:37
tilmanjust punch in the name of the software07:37
tilmanhttp://crux.nu/portdb/?q=blas&a=search07:37
tilman-> there's two guys who have a port for it07:37
caroha, there's a search07:37
carothank you07:37
tilman:D07:38
tilmanRomster: and i didn't say i hate you for it, ffs07:38
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Romsterheh no :/07:39
Romsteri iddn't take it that way07:39
Romsterdidn't*07:40
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Romstertilman, so you would prefer not to have Pkgfile optiomised ports in contrib? but only that of the projects intended optomise flags07:45
tilmani think ports should think twice before overriding cflags07:45
tilmanso yes, i think contrib/fftw should use whatever i specify in pkgmk.conf07:46
tilmanRomster: btw, i think you should use -march instead of -mtune07:46
Romsterany particuler reasion? -mtune optomises fir said cpu only and isn't so portable but faster for the said cpu its compiled on07:47
Romsterfor*07:47
tilmandoesn't -march imply -mtune or something?07:48
Romsterhmm double checking07:48
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tilmanRedShift: fftw stands for "fastest fourier transform in the west" o_O :D07:49
RedShiftlol07:49
Romster-mtune tunes to the spefic cpu while march only to the -march of the system07:51
treachsoo?07:52
Romstermtune also allows gcc to know that say a althon is a -i686 cpu so you don't have to speficy -march with -mtune07:52
tilmanRomster: alright07:52
tilmanRomster: i'll ask the guys what they think on tuesday and let you know07:53
Romsterso basicly restrict the program to the march cpu07:53
treach-march=athlon4 means i686? I kinda doubt that.07:53
Romsterwon't run on other but wll be more optomised07:53
RomsterO_o07:53
tilmanseems funny07:53
tilmanwhy do i need to --enable-k707:53
Romsterwhatever arch the athlon4 is07:53
tilmancan't it detect my cpu?07:53
tilman(configure, not the port)07:54
caroit can07:54
tilmancool07:54
carowell, potentially, there are autoconf commands for that07:54
RedShiftyou should use -march=i686 -mcpu=athlon07:54
tilmanwell yes07:54
Romstersome configures do some don't07:54
Romsteri just force it too07:54
tilmani meant whether it DOES it07:54
tilman:P07:54
Romster-mcpu is depreacated07:54
Romsterin favor of -mtune07:55
RedShiftyeah that's what I meant but I couldn't remember it07:55
RedShift-march is for the machine architecture (i686 in the athlon case) and -mtune to optimize it for a specific processor07:56
treach" Moreover, specifying -march=cpu-type implies -mtune=cpu-type07:56
treach"07:56
tilmanhey, sweet07:57
tilmani was right07:57
treachman gcc ftw.07:57
RedShiftthat is correct, but you can override that07:57
Romstereither use -march= for general arch use or use -mtune= for not portable but on the same cpu code and a increase in speed and smaller executables07:57
tilmanokay07:57
tilmanEOD? ;)07:57
RedShiftno07:57
RedShift-march is not portable07:57
Romsterlol07:57
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treachRedShift: who cares07:57
treach?07:57
tilmanindeed07:58
tilmanthat's the whole point of ports07:58
tilman:P07:58
sys0110i still have troubles with lilo07:58
tilmanor07:58
RedShiftfor example, if you compile it with -march=i686 you can't run your binary on a 386 processor07:58
tilmanone of them :)07:58
Romstermarch is portable onthe same arch type lile p3 and p407:58
treachit's not like the package it self will be very portable..07:58
Romsterlike*07:58
RedShifthowever, if you compile it with -march=386 -mtune=athlon it will run on a 386, and if you are running it on an athlon processor it will take advantage of that07:58
sys0110i think it boots the root partiton as readonly !!!  and iw ant to add win to boot list07:58
Romsterbut for a compiled distro on the same pc why not use -mtune and gain more performance?07:59
tilmansys0110: correct07:59
tilmanit first mounts / ro07:59
tilmanand later re-mount it rw07:59
RomsterRedShift, hmm didn't know that one07:59
sys0110i dont get it07:59
tilmanRomster: proove that treach is wrong07:59
rxiRomster: what happens when i compile it on my sparc/parisc/ppc? :P07:59
RomsterRedShift, thought one overrided the other07:59
RedShiftRomster: no07:59
* Romster reads up07:59
sys0110when it boots i mean CRUX it tells me that it cant update thefstab as it is RO08:00
RedShiftRomster: you should see march as most significant and mtune as least significant08:00
sys0110any help here?08:00
RedShiftlike major and minor numbers08:00
Romsterwhich treach's question of the athlon4 not being i686?08:00
RomsterRedShift, ah k good point08:01
tilman<    treach> " Moreover, specifying -march=cpu-type implies  -mtune=cpu-type08:01
treachRomster: athlon4 IS NOT i686.08:01
tilmanthat08:01
RomsterRedShift, so it can be made to work on a wide range of processors08:01
treachIt's 686 COMPATIBLE08:01
RedShiftRomster: yes08:01
Romsterhrmm08:01
sys0110thats all to update the rc.conf?08:01
Romsteri have gcc's man page open for awhile checks it08:02
sys0110any 1 wanna help me ? or "thank you"08:02
treachsys0110: patience.08:02
RedShiftsys0110: there aren't any '1's here08:02
sys0110ya08:02
treachsys0110: you're a bit sparse with details.08:02
sys0110cuz i coulbnt boot the win from ysterday08:02
sys0110i couldnt open the IRC god dammit08:03
treachthen it was a no win situation, I guess. :D08:03
sys0110nah i mean windows08:03
Romstertreach, i don't see that in the man page..08:03
treachRomster: you know how to search?08:03
sys0110why didnt u choose grub as the default MBR bootloader?08:04
Romstertreach, yeah i do but that peace of information isnt int he man page!!08:04
sys0110why lilo?08:04
treachwhy not?08:04
treachRomster: it is.08:04
RedShiftRomster: -march implies -mtune if -mtune wasn't explicitly defined08:04
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treachRomster: or are you calling me a liar?08:04
treachI'd think twice if I were you if you're implying that I'm not telling the truth...08:05
sys0110do we have a war here? :D08:05
Romstertreach, i would assume that to be correct08:05
tilmanit's in my man page, too ;)08:05
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treachsys0110: no just some stupid fuck who can't either spell nor read and calls people liars because they can't find the information they are pointed to.08:06
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Romsterwhere abouts? i'm looking at the argumets of mtune and march08:06
RedShiftRomster: -march implies -mtune if -mtune wasn't explicitly defined08:06
sys0110calm down guys08:06
Romsteron 4.0.3 unless 4.1.2 has it08:06
tilmanIntel 386 and AMD x86-64 Options08:06
tilmanin that section08:06
tilman-march ...08:06
sys0110we are tuxers , we are the best08:06
sys0110:D08:06
RomsterRedShift, kind of gathered that after treach pointed that out08:07
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RedShiftah ok08:07
RedShiftit's because I got disconnected08:07
RedShiftI didn't think you saw it08:07
Romsterif it was inthe man page i missed that point08:07
sys0110after u finsih that issue just help me with the LILO08:07
Romsterso don't blame me for rtfm :P as i have looked numerious of times.08:08
sys0110is CRUX related to debian ?08:08
treachno08:08
RedShiftsys0110: omfg08:08
sys0110lol08:08
Romsterso basicly i can just use -march=athon instead of i68608:08
Romsterdebian lmao08:08
Romsterno way08:08
RedShiftRomster: you can but that is not the recommended way08:08
sys0110ya uz apt-get similar to their Ports system :P08:08
treach?08:09
RedShiftRomster: I remember linux saying that we shouldn't do it this way but I can't remember where I read that08:09
RedShift*linus08:09
treachsys0110: you got that a bit wrong I guess. ;)08:09
treachWe are the ones with the port system.08:09
RomsterRedShift, hmm08:09
treachThey are using apt-get. D08:09
treach:D08:09
sys0110ya cuz i was really pissed off as i thought is realted to debian :D08:09
RedShiftyou all suck, debian ftw!08:09
RedShiftapt-get moooooo!08:09
sys0110hey , can i install grub?08:10
treachRedShift: yeah, right after they start linking in all deps you could possibly imagine, no matter how silly.08:10
sys0110instead of lilo?08:10
treachs starts/stops08:10
RedShiftsys0110: no you can't08:10
rehabdoll:)08:10
sys0110but the lilo sucks08:11
sys0110i love lilo08:11
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treachsys0110: of course you can, iirc it's even on the iso.08:11
sys0110but i dunno why it has problems?08:11
rehabdollWHERE IS THE BASICS?!?!08:11
treachheh08:11
RedShiftrehabdoll: somewhere between #ubuntu and #debian08:11
RedShift:o08:11
* treach don't understand why people seems so adverse to lilo.08:11
sys0110i cant do anything as the system is mounted as RO08:11
rehabdollpersonally i prefer grub08:12
Romsterlilo is da best08:12
sys0110i prefere LILO , but sometimes it sucks :D08:12
RedShiftI don't like lilo, grub allows on the fly editing and you don't have to run grub after you've updated your kernel08:12
treachsys0110: well, if that's so, you either did something wrong, or there is something wrong with your system.08:12
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rehabdollRedShift: exactly08:12
treachlilo doesn't just mount / RO w/o reason08:12
sys0110when i was  editing it08:12
Romsterlilo only sucks whne you forget to run /sbin/lilo but then thats the users idiotic fault08:12
RedShiftsys0110: you specified ro in the kernel commandline08:13
sys0110i read "read only" << what is that option?08:13
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sys0110what u mean?08:13
Romstersys0110, you can remount rw08:13
sys0110so u mean it is mounted as RO for ever?08:13
RedShiftsys0110: I have some ubuntu cd's, which one do you want? ppc, 386 or x86-64?08:13
RedShifthell take them all, what's the shipping address?08:13
sys0110lol08:14
sys0110every day i download over 2 linux cds08:14
Romstersys0110, its mounted as RO at bootup then gets remounted as RW08:14
Romsterif you look at the init scripts08:14
sys0110but why08:14
sys0110when its booting08:14
rehabdoll...08:14
RedShiftsys0110: edit the kernel command line to mount your root read-write08:15
sys0110it says cant upadte the fsatb08:15
sys0110as it is ro08:15
rehabdollmount -o remount,rw /08:15
sys0110<RedShift> sys0110: edit the kernel command line to mount your root read-write << HOW ?08:15
Romsterwhy is it stuck in RO mode?08:15
RedShiftsys0110: you sure you don't want any of those ubuntu cd's?08:15
Romsterdid it just do a fsck?08:16
sys0110cuz it cant update the fstab08:16
rehabdollits probably ro in fstab08:16
sys0110<RedShift> sys0110: you sure you don't want any of those ubuntu cd's? what u mean?08:16
RedShiftyou do remember setting up lilo, right?08:16
sys0110ya08:16
RedShiftwell edit the configuration, where it says kernel=/yourkernel root=/dev/sda1 ro08:16
RedShiftchange that ro to rw08:16
sys0110: /dev/hda2        /           defaults       1   108:17
treachsys0110: boot on the CD, mount your root partition and edit your configfiles.08:17
sys0110<RedShift> well edit the configuration, where it says kernel=/yourkernel root=/dev/sda1 ro   < where is that fie?08:17
sys0110file*08:17
RedShiftYOUR LILO CONFIG08:18
rehabdollwow08:18
sys0110ok08:18
RedShiftMOST LIKELY LILO.CONF08:18
sys0110ya ya i know08:18
sys0110 i will reboot08:18
sys0110andtry08:18
tilmanwhat's going on today!? :P08:18
sys0110c ya08:18
treachget rid of that "ro"08:18
RedShiftsys0110: you have to run lilo again08:18
sys0110and hey08:18
tilmand'oh08:19
Romstertilman, how can i use -fomit-frame-pointer in pkgmk.conf and still allow the few programs that use -g for debug without -fomit-frame-pointer? unless the configure is intelagent.08:19
sys0110redshift i will take that cds for free :P08:19
tilmanyou explicitly tell it to mount / ro08:19
tilmanand wonder why it does mount it ro?08:19
sys0110lol salam08:19
tilman:P08:19
Romsterchange ro to rw08:19
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treachlol08:19
Romstermust use defaults08:19
Romstermost*08:19
Romsterok i think i jsut made a noobie remark08:19
RedShiftman where were the days were you could expect SOME knowledge from people08:19
RedShiftbut now08:19
treachI wonder why he's having problems..08:20
RedShiftthey install linux like toasters08:20
Romsterlol08:20
tilmanif the program overrides your CFLAGS, it's a bug in the port08:20
tilman(usually!)08:20
treachRomster: unset CFLAGS?08:21
treachiirc mplayer uses/used some setting like that08:21
Romsterbut thats still messing with the CFLAGS in the Pkgfile08:21
treachno it isnt08:21
treachit's just telling pkgmk to not look at them.08:22
Romsterby removing them then it defaults to whats in the programs configure.08:22
tilmanif there's a good reason for doing it, go ahead08:22
tilmanand that's the case for mplayer08:22
RedShiftmplayer is very picky about which CFLAGS the compilation used08:22
Romsterand not what the end user intended in pkgmk08:22
tilmanRedShift: yeah08:22
Romsterwell i saw a good reason to alter fftw's CFLAGS08:22
Romsterclearly we need clearly definded guidelines on this..08:23
Romsternot ones that contrdict08:23
tilman"making it go faster is NOT a good reason"08:24
tilmanoops08:24
tilman"making it go faster" is NOT a good reason08:24
tilman_i_ decide how fast i want my packages08:24
tilmanvia /etc/pkgmk.conf08:24
tilmanthe next guy decides to user -O3 -omfgoptimize for firefox08:24
tilmanand makes it crash every 10 minutes08:25
tilman:P08:25
muertohi, what port contains aiglx pkg?08:26
caro-omfgoptimize <-- nice one08:27
tilmanxorg-server08:29
tilmanbut i think you asked the wrong question08:29
tilman:P08:29
muertosure, im searching how to run beryl on crux08:30
tilmani think jaeger has ports for beryl in his repository08:31
tilmanand you'll need the xorg 7.2 ports08:32
tilmanwon't work with opt/x1108:32
muertook thanks08:32
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Romsteridealily the cflags should be the programers responsability for optomisations, but not all even optomise as you know08:34
tilmanthat's why i put optimizations in pkgmk.conf08:34
tilman99% of all packages honour $CFLAGS08:35
Romsterwell i would not -O3 where i know it will break something08:35
tilmanor why do you think that most ports don't adjust CFLAGS? :)08:35
Romsterbit ok the user decides is a valid reasion08:36
RedShiftman we just moved from rack08:36
Romsterbut*08:36
RedShiftbefore we were in the lower half of a rack08:36
RedShiftnow we're in the upper half of a rack08:36
RedShiftand the temperatures are 7°c higher08:37
RedShiftbah :-(08:37
rehabdollwhats the ambient temp?08:37
Romsteri id on't trade reliability for speed08:39
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sys0110http://crux.nu/Main/Handbook2-3-Appendix08:39
sys0110so i can use grub08:40
treachwhy? Your problems are self-inflicted08:40
sys0110lilo08:40
sys0110i have problems wiht it08:40
sys0110iam depressed08:40
treachno, it does exactly what you told it to.08:41
treachIf you hadn't been so hasty you'd have sloved your problems by now, or rather you had gotten a vital clue.08:41
treachs sloved/solved08:41
tilmanYOU tell it to mount / ro08:42
tilmanjesus08:42
Romstertilman, just wondering what is right and wrong with gstreamer-plugins-ffmpeg i force change -O? to -O2 else it breaks the compile if its set to -Os or -O308:44
treachsince O2 is system default, I don't see the problem :>08:45
Romstershould i allow the users to get it to break and they keep asking why it won't build, or keep to what its doing now.08:45
treach"If you mess with your CFLAGS, you're on your own."08:46
treachRomster: do you remember the basic theme of CRUX?08:46
treachsys0110: Since I'm in a happy mood today, read from here -> http://clc.morpheus.net/irc/#08:17:49 to where you leave in a hurry.08:49
sys0110wow u r in the mood08:50
sys0110but iam not08:50
sys0110:P08:50
Romsterthen again breaking is alot diferent to optomising.08:50
sys0110AndrewB is The MAn :P08:50
AndrewBAm I?08:50
sys0110hehe08:51
sys0110ya08:51
JKnife\o/ my clock set just fine08:57
sys0110c ya08:57
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jjpkIs it just me, or do these users keep forgetting their brain and common sense at home? o_o10:44
RedShiftonly in america11:07
jjpksys0110 was not american, but egyptcian according to his ip.11:10
RedShiftlol he came back?11:10
RedShiftHe just wouldn't take the ubuntu hint11:11
RedShiftit was drewling all over the place... ubuntu...11:11
jjpkSome people are dead stubborn.11:13
jjpkNot a bad thing, unless combined with a whine whine whine atttitude haha11:13
RedShiftone of those people that buy computers like they are toasters...11:14
RedShiftnice weather11:16
RedShiftmakes me want to go outside and have a beer11:16
tilmanindeed11:17
jjpkLucky you, the snow is melting outside and everything is dripping.11:17
jjpkReally gets you motivated to do anything, really.11:17
RedShiftdon't be mistaken though11:18
RedShiftit's still cold outside11:18
RedShiftbut it's starting to feel like spring11:18
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jjpkI hate spring because it's invariably allergy season.11:21
jjpkoh joy, can't wait until that season of misery begins...11:21
tilmanspring rocks11:21
tilmani don't have allergies though ;)11:21
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RedShift-don't remind me11:22
RedShift-hayfever?11:22
jjpkExactly what I am referring to.11:22
Romsteri suffer from hayfeaver11:22
RedShift-man I once woke up, and I couldn't open my eyes11:23
RedShift-espcially the eyes are bad with me11:23
Romsteri can get it so servere that its almost a cold11:23
RedShift-and the sneezing ofcourse11:23
jjpkSame story every spring for me as well.11:23
tilmanhayfever seems really popular these days :D11:23
Romstereyes itchy, blury, sore11:24
Romsternose running like a tap11:24
RedShift-I do have some eyesdrops that work very well11:24
RedShift-but nothing for the sneezing11:24
Romsterdrowsyness, iratable11:24
Romsterblocked nose11:24
Romsterinfact i got a bit of it atm11:24
RedShift-yeah blocked nose in the summer, blocked nose in the winter11:25
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RedShift-the only times my nostrils are free is where $season NOT IN ('summer', 'winter')11:25
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RedShiftaround the end of summer (august) the symptoms disappate though11:26
RedShiftbut the end of spring is hell, when everything starts to grow and stuff11:26
RedShiftbah11:26
jjpkSame here, then it somewhat eases toward the summer.11:27
jjpk...buuut the summer is in and out here in Finland before you know it ;)11:27
RedShiftand it always occurs right when I have exams11:27
RedShiftluckily I don't have exams anymore so that's not a problem11:27
Romsterheh11:27
Romstersummer is fine with me its spring and winter i get it11:28
Romsterwinter its colds and spring its hayfeaver11:28
Romsterno wonder i love summer and i like the heat better than the cold anyways11:28
RedShiftoh well11:28
RedShiftluckily there is nothing else wrong with my body11:28
RedShiftno other allergies11:28
RedShiftcan eat all foods (very important to me)11:29
RedShiftI do wished I had a bigger penis, but probably everybody wants that11:29
Romsteryeah my 2 brothers used ot have athsma, i think i got the good end and onyl suffer from hayfever11:29
jjpkConfession hour at #crux11:29
tilmanTMI11:29
Romsterlol11:29
* tilman covers his eyes11:30
Romsteryou want TMI thats not TMI ^^^ :D11:30
RedShiftwhat's TMI?11:30
Romsterto much information11:30
Romstertoo*11:31
Romsterbefore treach corrects me :D11:31
RedShifttilman: well well is somebody a little bit shy?11:31
tilmandon't be sad cause i dont' want to know about your dick :P11:32
jjpkAs far as I am aware, #crux is not #pecker_envy11:32
RedShiftlol11:33
tilmancrazy day11:33
jjpkLet's keep it that way.11:33
jjpktilman: what did you expect? It's sunday and spring is in the air11:34
jjpk:D11:34
tilman:D11:34
RedShiftmakes you realize how fast is life passing you by11:34
RedShiftit seems like yesterday I hated girls11:37
Romstertilman, lol what? i wasn't gonna talk about THAT11:37
RedShiftnow I can't get enough of them11:37
tilmanand i wasn't referring to you11:38
RedShiftoh wait, that was yesterday... WHEN MY BITCH WENT OUT FOR SHOPPING WITH MY VISA11:38
RedShift(joke) ^_^11:38
tilman;D11:38
jjpkI agree about time passing by too quickly.11:38
Romstertilman, its directed to everyone if oyu don't prefix it with a nickname so there *sticks my toung out at tilman* :P11:38
jjpkIt has especially passed by quickly, can't believe a year and half has passed since starting at a business school.11:39
RedShiftI can't believe it's almost 6 months since I started self-employment11:39
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jjpkMain courses done, research project in the works and then off to the mandatory exchange abroad.11:39
tilmani can't believe march is almost over11:39
RedShiftand it's almost a year since I finished school11:39
jjpkmarch is not even half way, what the hell are you talking about...11:39
tilman:D11:40
tilmanit's only three weeks!11:40
jjpkRedShift: I just love it how this business school tells you self-employment is the devil11:41
RedShiftjjpk: how so? :-D11:41
jjpk"big corporations are the way forward!!11zomg111!"11:41
jjpk...right, so that I can get fired 6 months after I would even get in.11:41
RedShiftsounds like some american lecture to me11:41
jjpkThis department of the business school does not have permanent staff, most of the professors and lecturers are american.11:42
jjpkBig surprise eh11:42
RedShiftmiddle class is what makes a country wealthy11:42
jjpkMost of the students here are chickenshit, feel good hippies who want no responsibility11:43
RedShiftwell why do you want responsibility11:43
jjpkIn that case, yes I agree that big corporations are the way forward.11:43
RedShiftresponsibility is what gets you into trouble :-D11:43
tilmanwhy did you get self-employed then?11:44
jjpkResponsibility gets you no trouble if you know what you are doing.11:44
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jjpkIndeed, you should know, you are self-employed.11:44
RedShiftbecause I'm to stubborn to have a boss, and I want to get rich, and don't have a decent diploma to get rich as an employee11:44
jjpkPoint 2) I fervently believe in the do-it-yourself work ethic11:45
jjpkYou don't need a boss if you are disciplined and know what you want.11:46
RedShiftvery true11:46
RedShiftin this world, if you don't do it yourself, it looks like nothing11:46
RedShiftI always have to complain to get things done right11:46
jjpkBesides, bosses often get paid too much just to breathe over your neck.11:46
RedShiftyou have no idea how frustrating that is11:47
jjpkThat is a waste of money in my opinion :D11:47
jjpkSame in Finland, nobody is motivated and things get done only when you persistently bitch at them.11:47
RedShiftlike the facility I'm colocating at11:47
RedShiftI spent two months complaining they should get their new network up and running11:47
RedShiftnow that's done11:47
RedShiftI've been complaing for three weeks the reverses are not in order11:48
RedShiftin fact11:48
RedShiftthey don't even have delegation set on their netblock11:48
RedShiftwtf11:48
jjpkAll too familiar :D11:48
RedShiftI just makes me want to build my own datacenter and do it RIGHT11:48
RedShiftbut I haven't got ? 50 000 000 on spare so I have to wait a bit11:49
jjpkYou have just hit the jackpot on why I don't like organizations :D11:49
jjpkRedShift: by the way, are you incorporated or do you just do business as an individual?11:49
RedShiftjjpk: I'm not saying all are evil11:49
jjpkThey are inefficient too often, that is my complaint11:49
RedShiftI work with companies that are excellent11:49
RedShiftbusiness as individual11:50
RedShiftI do webhosting/colocation on individual basis11:50
RedShiftI always want to be around the companies that don't really care about money11:50
RedShiftbecause they pay me to get their stuff done right11:50
RedShiftand when I do stuff11:51
RedShiftI do it good11:51
jjpkI'm still considering my options, it would make a bit more sense to create a private stock company because I have a few interested people as well.11:51
RedShiftbut it has it's price11:51
jjpkThe opposite is true here.11:51
jjpkIt's all about the money, fuck everything else.11:51
jjpkTruly disgusting attitude.11:51
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RedShiftthat's why I don't attract private persons11:51
RedShiftthey always go bla bla wtf ? 70 per year for 50 megs of space11:52
RedShiftwhen you try them that's what you need to cover costs + deliver the excellent service you are providing11:52
RedShiftthey have no ears11:52
tilmangetting rich would be cool11:52
tilmanwork half a day11:52
tilmanand spend the other half hacking11:52
tilman\o/11:52
jjpktilman: yep, in the corporate world you don't get that.11:53
RedShifteven my cheapest webhosting account is ? 55 excluding VAT11:53
jjpkIt's either work 24/7, or no job.11:53
RedShiftI mean come on, ? 5511:53
RedShifthow can they bitch about that11:53
RedShiftand that's for an ENTIRE year!11:53
tilmanno idea what the prices are at atm RedShift ;)11:54
RedShiftI don't care about the compitition11:54
RedShiftI say my price, I clearly define what they get11:54
RedShiftbut don't come bitching to me afterwards, I delivered what was asked11:55
RedShiftthat's why I like big companies11:55
RedShiftthey don't care about the money11:55
RedShiftthey want service11:55
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RedShiftI'm thinking of disallowing private persons11:56
RedShiftI've seen what trouble they bring with them (at the place I used to work)11:57
RedShiftguys?11:57
RedShiftlol11:57
JKnifeyes?11:57
* JKnife just got back11:57
jjpkhaha. rather place them on the backburner and focus on company customers.11:58
RedShiftI still accept private persons though11:58
RedShiftthey make good mouth-to-mouth11:58
jjpkIn my experience what really cause problems is again not knowing exactly what you want.11:59
RomsterO_o11:59
Romsterjjpk, or what they want11:59
jkrHeyho11:59
RedShiftRomster: that's also true12:00
jkrDoes anyone know of problems with ISOLINUX when booting from the install CD?12:00
Romsteryo jkr12:00
jjpkI was talking as an individual on this one.12:00
jjpkToo often the potential customer is clueless about what can be done and either go nuts when you explain, or expect heaven and earth on a silver plate.12:00
JKnifejkr: no problems here tieh the i586 cd12:00
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Romsterya but the reverse can oftern happen when they arn't clear on what they want12:00
jkrIt's a P4 CPU, so there shouldn't be a problem with the i686 optimization12:01
jkrIt looks like it doesn't even load the kernel12:01
Romsterodd12:01
jkrIt completly freezes at the "ISOLINUX" message12:01
RedShiftpentium4 sucks12:02
RedShiftget a real computer12:02
RedShift^_^12:02
Romsterlol12:03
guaquajkr: try disabling acpi & co12:03
jkrIn BIOS?12:04
jjpkYes, then it will be properly off.12:04
RedShiftman12:04
RedShiftimage spam12:04
RedShiftbah12:04
RedShiftit doesn't even contain something usefull12:05
RedShiftwhat's the point?12:05
jkrWell there's no other way since ISOLINUX doesn't even make it to the boot prompt12:05
jjpkRedShift: through e-mail? at least spamprobe does a good job in removing it.12:05
jkrspamprobe is fine12:05
RedShiftjjpk: I use SMTP blacklists. I only get 2 or 3 spammails a day12:06
jkrBest spam-filter I've ever had12:06
jjpkI would as well, but I cannot run my own smtp :|12:06
jjpkThe braindead ISP of mine really likes to ruin for everyone.12:07
RedShift994 mails blocked since 5 march12:07
RedShiftnot bad huh :-D12:07
RedShifttoday 24 mails12:07
jjpk\o/12:08
jjpkRough estimate, but I get around 30-50 spam e-mails a day and usually they get thrown into the spam folder. :p12:09
jjpkGood enough.12:09
RedShiftif I go through the email logs, the cruft I find in there... horrible12:09
jkrIs the ISOLINUX stuff in any way modified for CRUX?12:10
jkrOr is it the original code?12:10
jjpkI find it terribly funny how the developed countries mostly block all useful ports, yet the majority of shit mail I get comes from ip ranges in the developing world.12:10
RedShiftthey should block port 25 to anyone who doesn't need it12:11
RedShiftthat means residential customers12:11
RedShiftthat would like kill 90% of the spam12:11
jjpkWhen they do that, they block the opportunity from users who know what they are doing.12:11
jjpkThe isp's get all bureaucratic on you :D12:12
jjpk"The rules say NO"12:12
RedShiftright12:12
RedShiftbut they should allow to open them, opt-in12:12
RedShiftmy ISP blocks all < 102412:13
RedShiftand I have no problems with that12:13
jjpkThat is where isps have screwed up big time.12:13
RedShiftbecause it keeps alot of crap out12:13
jjpkFor you its not really a problem because you have dedicated servers under your control.12:13
RedShifttrue12:13
RedShiftnow that you mention that12:14
RedShiftI do make alot of use of them12:14
RedShiftI wonder what I would do if I didn't have tham12:14
RedShiftthem12:14
RedShifthmmmm12:14
RedShifttrue true12:14
RedShiftlike I said, opt-in12:14
jjpkCursing your isp to high hell and back :D12:14
RedShiftor even create a simple web interface for the customers12:15
RedShiftlike a mini firewall for everyone12:15
RedShiftthey would need a ton of processing power though :-D12:15
Romsteryeah add yet another firewall to the hell of 'why dosn't this work how do i edit that' to customers12:15
jjpkProbably not too much, users often do not have a damn clue.12:16
jjpkI just love the projection this business school has about technology "microsoft microsoft microsoft"12:18
jjpk"there are no alternatives" nice12:18
jjpkThen you wonder why innovation has been stiffled across the board.12:18
jjpkAll you get out of here is to be another member of the herd.12:18
RedShiftlol12:19
RedShiftI had a microsoft doctrine at school too12:19
jjpkYou can *almost* hear the moos and the smell of shit.12:19
RedShiftI sure teached them12:19
jjpkThe first thing we had when the program started was to take "computer tests"12:20
RedShiftmy greatest act was inserting an ubuntu cd in all the cdromdrives of one class12:20
RedShiftyou should haven seen their faces12:20
jjpkHaha12:20
RedShiftmagnificent12:20
jjpkzomg it gonna blow!12:20
RedShiftI remember my words, "what's wrong?"12:20
Romsterjjpk, yeah even in IT traiining at tafe here its all microsoft12:20
Romsterand i said wtf wheres linux12:20
jjpkRomster: linux does not exist, according to those people :D12:21
RedShiftthey are scared of it12:21
RomsterRedShift, lmao nice move12:21
RedShiftthey know you know alot more about computer than they do12:21
Romsterya12:22
RedShiftit makes then frightened12:22
Romsterthats why i quited that course years ago12:22
jjpkI have had problems with those "trainers" as long as I can remember.12:22
jjpkWhen you demonstrate that you have more knowledge than they do, they apply the "rules and regulations" bullshit on you12:22
jjpk"nope, you have to retake this and that and the other"12:23
Romsterwas like i don't nned to know windoze crap i already knew, i was like after advanced stuff.12:23
jjpkYou did not follow the regulations...12:23
jjpkI am so tired of hearing that excuse.12:23
Romsteryeah i said screw you and left.12:23
Romsterwell mentally i said that12:23
jjpkNow in a business school open source has the putrid smell of communism written all over it, and surprise surprise this place is a staunch anticommunist organization at heart :D :D12:24
RedShiftwell12:25
RedShiftthey are not entirely wrong...12:25
RedShiftreactos 0.3.1 has been released12:25
RedShiftwoo!12:25
jjpkI absolutely despise this "protectionistic" and "going by the book" attitude they expect you to have here.12:25
Romsteryeah i'm watching reactos RedShift :P12:26
tilmanjjpk: sounds like you're having a fun time :/12:26
RedShiftjjpk: what country/school is that? I'll put it on my blacklist12:26
Romsterjjpk, best to teach yaself i recken12:26
jjpktilman: you think? :D :D12:26
jjpkRedShift: helsinki school of economics (HSE)12:26
RedShifthelsinki?12:27
RedShiftisn't that sweden?12:27
JKnifethe 2.6.21-rc2 kernel didn't change my hd* to sd* o.O12:27
jjpkNo, Finland.12:27
RedShiftah12:27
RedShiftok12:27
RedShiftso12:27
RedShiftfinland = second america; school system = worthless12:27
Romsteri had one person in that class say this after i said, why not instlal linux, the student said no way last time i did that i couldn't format the disk to get it off and install windows again, i cracked up laugthing clear the MBR u bozo12:27
jjpkRomster: lol12:28
RedShifteeh lol I was one of those guys12:28
RedShiftlong long time ago12:28
JKnifeo.O the windows installer clears the MBR for him...12:28
RedShiftwhen I was still a die-hard windows guy12:28
RedShift(and I too was affraid of this whole linux thing)12:28
Romsterand that was suposidly a expeareanced comptuer user too :/12:28
jjpkThat is what you get when you only see one point of view.12:28
RedShiftone geek gave me a 3 cd set, I think it was mandrake12:28
JKnifeEWWW RPMS!12:28
RedShiftI tried installing it but I had to stop because it said it couldn't mount the cdrom drive12:28
RomsterJKnife, maybe it didin't on the version he was using *shrugs*12:29
RedShiftand I didn't know how to fix it12:29
RedShiftso I gave the guy the cd's back and told him about my problem12:29
JKnifeRomster: o.O? i thought it dod on all the versions12:29
RedShifthe laughed12:29
RedShifthe left12:29
RedShiftI was like12:29
RedShiftwtf12:29
RomsterJKnife, i dunno what he did wrong then12:29
RedShiftbut that was like 8 years ago or so12:29
RedShiftdamn time really flies by!12:30
Romsterheh oh well RedShift12:30
JKnife:) I was lucky I didn't have to try and mount cdroms on the first distro I used :)12:30
RedShiftnow I'm the unix fucking master12:30
JKnifeahh Knoppix :)12:30
RedShift^_^12:30
jjpkI was lucky I had a patient "mentor" when I started with slackware years ago.12:30
JKnifeRedShift > /dev/null12:30
jkrhttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/31445812:31
JKnifethere all better12:31
jjpkbbl, dinner time.12:31
RedShiftI learned it all by myself12:31
RedShiftI didn't have anyone to back me up12:31
RedShift(still proud of that)12:31
RedShiftthere's nothing I can't fix12:32
guaquanever had anyone teach me stuff either12:32
RedShiftbecause I can do it in da mi12:33
RedShiftx12:33
RedShiftmix12:33
RedShiftd'oh12:33
JKnifei thought i sent your putput to /dev/null?12:33
JKnifeoutput*12:34
RomsterRedShift, hrmm you into techo :P12:34
Romstertechno*12:34
RedShifttrance/dance/hardstyle mostly12:34
RedShiftI do like classical music on occasion12:35
Romsterone night in bankok12:35
Romsterah thought as much as soon as you said that.12:35
Romsterthen you'd like scooter :P12:35
* Romster has the new album12:35
RedShiftI like scooter but it's not music I could constantly listen to :-D12:36
Romsterya true12:36
RedShiftspecial d is about the same genre12:36
* Romster plays Master Blaster - One Night In Bankok.mp312:38
Romsteryeah love specal d too12:38
Romsteratb aswell12:38
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JKnifejkr: this one is so funny http://support.microsoft.com/kb/824973/en-us12:38
Romstertoo many to list really have like 35GB of music here probbly more now12:38
RedShiftwhat the12:38
RedShiftredhat 6.212:38
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JKnifeRedShift: lol12:38
RedShiftthat's old12:39
JKnife"This article discusses how to install Red Hat Linux 6.2 on Microsoft Virtual PC 5 for Macintosh."12:39
JKnife\o/12:39
jkrHrhr12:39
Romsterheh12:39
jjpkMore microsoft fud perhaps? haha12:40
RedShiftRomster: I have more!12:40
RedShiftI must have about 60gb of music12:40
RedShiftthat includes "regular" music though12:41
RedShiftmusic that is not in ('trance', 'dance', 'hardstyle', 'techno')12:41
Romsteryeah i got mental rock, some classical too12:42
Romsterand 6--90's stuff12:42
Romster60-90*12:42
RedShiftResults 1-20 of 13812:42
Romsterstill like aot of the ol songs12:42
RedShiftwhen searching for linux on the microsoft kb12:42
Romsteralot*12:43
RedShiftthey even have articles about samba12:43
RedShiftResults 1-20 of 41 when searching for BSD12:43
RedShift3 when searching for FreeBSD12:43
* Romster plays Ozzy Osbourne & Lita Ford - If I Close My Eyes Forever.mp312:43
Romsternow thats a classic12:44
RedShiftopenbsd will yield none I think12:44
RedShiftnope, no documents on openbsd12:44
JKnifeRedShift: they also have a howto on setting up NFS12:44
RedShiftJKnife: yes but it has some limitations12:44
Romstersuprised linux is even mentained on the microsoft site12:44
RedShiftwell they can't just ignore it, it's used on like 60% of the servers12:45
jjpkI suppose it means linux is becoming a notable opponent for them.12:45
jkrRedShift: M$ servers? :D12:45
JKnifeAHH! WE ARE NO LONGER THE UNDERGROUND!12:45
RedShiftno linux12:45
jjpkIf it were not, then why would linux be even mentioned12:45
RedShiftwell, webservers12:45
RedShiftthere are probably a ton of servers that run m$ for very specific software12:46
jkrMicrosofts webservers?12:46
RedShiftno, 60 % of the webservers are not microsoft12:46
RedShiftso that usually means linux12:46
AkiraYuki10 % bsd12:46
jkrI wonder if Microsoft runs Linux servers too12:46
AkiraYuki:-D12:46
RedShiftaccording to netcruft that is12:46
RedShiftI mean netcraft12:46
RedShiftjkr: ofcourse they do, they even have a special linux lab12:47
RedShiftin fact, before windows 2000 they main website was running on unix machines12:47
jkrI bet microsoft.com is hosted on a cluster of 100 win 2003 servers, so 50 can serve the pages while the other 50 reboot12:47
RedShiftthe sun is setting :-12:48
RedShift:-(12:48
RedShiftjkr: most likely :-D12:48
RedShiftanyone noticed how hotmail started to suck after they switched to windows...12:48
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Romsteryeah i don''t use hotmail anymore.12:50
RedShiftI use OpenGate12:50
jkrWho does at all?12:50
RedShiftwww.opengate.be12:50
jkrI use postfix + dovecot :)12:51
RedShiftme too12:52
RedShiftI used to use courier-imap but switched to dovecot12:54
RedShiftwhat do you guys use for email?12:55
RedShiftI recommend switching to OpenGate12:55
jkrWhat's OpenGate?12:55
RedShiftyou shouldn't ask what OpenGate is12:56
RedShiftyou should ask what OpenGate can do for you12:56
guaquais it like an anal probe then?12:56
RedShiftguaqua: well I can arrange that but I won't be the one rendering that service12:57
jkrHrhr, then I'm not interested12:57
RedShift^_^12:57
RedShiftOpenGate is my company12:57
jkrThe page doesn't really say anything about what it is12:58
jkrThere's only a contact from12:58
jkr*form12:58
RedShiftthat's right12:58
jkrDo you get a lot of messages asking what you're actually doing? :)12:58
guaquaso it's a firm offering anal probing, in my books that is12:58
RedShiftactually I have had zero requests via my website12:58
jkrMaybe because noone knows what that page is all about?12:59
RedShiftmost of my business is mouth-to-mouth12:59
guaquamouth to mouth anal probing12:59
guaquammmm12:59
jkrHrhr12:59
jkrIt think I'll start a company too12:59
RedShiftjkr: actually I have enough work not actively promote my products, so there's no real need for a website12:59
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jkrI'll make a homepage saying: "$mycompany - contact me!"13:00
RedShiftlol13:00
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jkrAnd then thousands of potential customers will message me and ask for my interesting services13:01
RedShiftrofl13:01
RedShiftno they won't13:01
Romsterheh13:01
RedShiftlike I said13:01
RedShiftnobody contacts me via that form13:01
jkrBut they will after I did mouth-to-mouth13:01
RedShiftLOL13:01
jjpklol13:01
jkrHehe, I know what I'll offer - company websites for other companies :D13:02
RedShiftlol13:02
jkrCompanies can choose one of ~10 templates13:02
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jkrmailto-links cost extra!13:02
RedShiftthey are called webdesigners :-P13:02
jkrThe companies name on the website costs extra too13:03
RedShiftcompanies don't care about extra cost, as long as you do it like they want you to13:03
jkrSo they can combine website elements (company name, mailto-contact-link & logo) individually13:04
jkrprice = 1000EUR ^ number of elements13:04
jkrThen I'll hire people who do the mouth-to-mouth for me, so even more companies contact me13:05
jkrI'll be RICH!13:06
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jkrIn about 2 years every company has a website and they contact each other using their contact forms13:07
Romsterlol13:08
Romsterok twisted mind but interesting theory13:08
jkrAnd because no company knows what the other companies actually do, they have to contact each company to find out13:09
RedShiftjkr: ok, made enough fun of my website? :-)13:16
jkrOk :)13:16
jkrSo what are you doing? :)13:16
RedShiftI do webhosting and colocation13:17
RedShiftand some side ICT projects, most of them web applications13:17
jkrBooooooooring :D13:17
RedShiftnot for me13:17
jkrI'd like to be an actor who plays hackers in hacker movies13:19
jkrI can type really fast13:19
jkrAnd I know a lot of funky unix commands13:20
jkrAnd I can make really l33t looking ZSH scripts13:20
RedShiftlol13:20
teK$ nmap -v localhost13:21
jkrAnd I could really use the money :)13:21
RedShifthave you noticed, in movies, they just type randomly on the keyboards?13:21
RedShiftthey don't write sentences or words13:21
RedShiftthey just slam the keyboard13:21
jkrYup, but that doesn't matter because there's only matrix-like chinese characters on the screen anyway13:21
RedShiftletters, numbers, special characters, an ocasional return, ...13:21
RedShiftI even saw one typing in numbers on the numeric keypad... and the numlock led wasn't lit13:22
jkrI once saw a cool hacker movie with _real_ C code! :)13:22
RedShiftthe things you notice as computer geek :o13:22
jkrThe hacker was on a FBI computer13:22
jkrAt the login he pressed a secred key combination and the C code of the login program popped up - he typed 'puts(password)' so the correct password was printed on the screen and he could copy it to the password prompt13:23
jkrThat's reality!13:23
jkrForgot the movies name :(13:23
jkrI also liked "upstart"13:26
RedShiftlol13:26
jkrEspecially the scene where the evil guy says "Children don't use the / key - this must have been a HACKER!!"13:26
teK:eek:13:27
jkrThat's so true!13:27
teK//////// (ZOMG)13:27
RedShiftwhat movie is that? :-D13:28
jkrUpstart13:28
jkrThe hacker sneaked into a room with kids computers in the company to hack into the company network, and the next day the company people searched for fingerprints on the keyboards13:29
jkrThey found one on the / key, so they knew that that computer was used by the hacker13:29
jkrIf I was a hacker movie actor, I'd be pushing the / key all the time13:30
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jkrIt's a bit harder on germany keyboard layouts, because you have to push shift + 7, but I think I can manage that13:32
jkrHmm, I'd like to have a touchscreen + the window manager they use on the Voyager13:38
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jjpkAnother /quit talker haha13:53
tilmantuxhacker oO13:53
jkrI bet he's pressing / a lot, too13:54
RedShiftlol13:54
jjpkevil!13:55
jjpk:]13:55
RedShiftreminds me of the days that people thought that writing with your left hand was evil...13:56
jkrHrhr13:56
jkrOr typing with more than 1 finger per hand13:56
RedShiftsniff sniff13:57
RedShiftdo you smell that?13:57
RedShiftdinner is ready13:57
RedShiftbye :-D13:57
jkrHmm, I wonder what I'll be eating tonight13:57
jkrI think sundays is pizza hawaii day14:00
jkrSunday is my favorite time of year14:00
treachhm. I guess that proves qwerty is evil then..14:02
treach(ie, writing with your left hand -> evil)14:02
* jjpk hears the angry horde approaching.14:12
* tilman stomps14:14
* jkr presses the / key14:29
JKnifeo.O ion3 has passed *box14:34
JKnifehttp://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9854/ion3gb8.jpg14:36
jkrI bet Gr33nN1nj4 hits / a lot, too14:39
JKnife/me/ never!14:39
teKLain :-)14:44
JKnifeteK: :)14:44
teKI'm outta here. cu14:44
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guaquad'oh15:09
guaquai thought domains only expired for other people15:09
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RedShiftehlo15:14
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jjpkgreenninjas in 1337sp43k o_o15:51
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jjpkThis is too much to handle zomg :D15:53
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guaquaargh16:05
guaquawhy is my apache offering me empty pages16:06
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jjpkguaqua: maybe you have a wrong path or your permissions are too restrictive.16:07
guaquawell i just changed paths and it started doing this16:08
guaquaand there's nothing in error_log16:08
treachit's because you're not a "Gr33nN1nj4" of course. :>16:10
jjpklol16:10
RedShiftwhat's a good web svn viewer?16:10
RedShiftlike viewcvs16:10
RedShiftbut for svn16:10
jjpkguaqua: did you reload apache and make sure the new path has your pages? :p16:11
guaquarestarted16:11
jjpkRedShift: I have not used this, but I know someone who has: http://viewvc.tigris.org/16:11
guaquamany-a-times16:11
jjpkHmm16:11
guaquathis is over nfs though16:12
guaquaHMMM16:12
RedShiftjjpk: thanks16:12
tilmanviewcvs supports svn too :P16:12
tilmanoh16:12
tilmanjjpk: i think that's the successor to viewcvs or something, right?16:12
jjpkRedShift: the user has not complained about it, but give it a try.16:12
jjpktilman: I don't know.16:12
tilman"ViewVC (formerly known as ViewCVS) ..."16:13
tilmani got that running, too16:13
tilmanworks well16:13
RedShifthmmm16:13
RedShiftis there some php viewer too?16:13
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guaquajjpk: vhost problem16:18
jjpk\o/16:19
guaquai was sort of migrating from 2.0 apache to 2.2 without editing the config :D16:20
guaquasoo....16:20
treach"ViewVC" so tantalizingly close to a really shitty name. :>16:24
jjpkHaha16:30
jjpkMaybe that was the intention of the authors ;)16:30
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jjpk"they will never guess this one haha!"16:30
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* RedShift zzz16:52
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rehabdollCPU Temp:  +68.0°C20:06
rehabdolllooove them p4's20:06
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Romsterrehabdoll, omfg thats high22:43
Romstermy k7 is sitting on 57C and its about 24C in this room i've not excedded 70C on a day that its 40C in the room22:45
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rehabdollwell my p4 is in a closet with an airtemp of 35C :)22:57
rehabdolland im not really sure i trust those sensor-readings22:58
rehabdollmy conroe idles around 35C in my sauna-ish 25C apartment22:59

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