IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2007-03-21

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pitillogood morning01:58
tilmanhello pitillo02:02
pitillomorning tilman :)02:02
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rezzieis there any way to d/l crux 2.3 other than torrent?02:33
namenlosi don't think so (until someone offerst to host the iso...)02:34
tilmanwe'll have regular mirrors up shortly02:36
raw2.3?02:43
rawwhy did noone tell me \o/02:43
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rawah, because I was sleeping02:44
pitilloraw, it is announced at crux.nu too02:44
rawyah, I'm reading02:45
rehabdollhttp://fredrik.obra.se/crux/crux-2.3/02:46
rehabdollrape away D;02:46
rawrehabdoll: I'm using bittorrent02:46
rawI'm behind a WLAN right now, wouldn't be much of a 'rape' ;>02:47
rehabdoll:)02:47
rawUhm, there's something wrong with the torrent02:48
raw"Problem connecting to tracker - HTTP Error 404: No such domain"02:48
tilmanugh02:49
rehabdollcan you connect to http://crux.nu ?02:49
rawworks now02:50
teKrehabdoll: yep02:51
teKit would be cool if the md5sum was included in the handbook (yes it *can* be dangerous)02:58
pitilloteK, do you mean a ref to the md5sum? at handbook's point number 3.2 there is a reference...03:00
teKI mean the actual MD5SUM03:01
pitilloteK, missunderstood it, sorry.03:02
rezziestill not ready tilman? i think i will use rehabdoll link instead...03:04
tilmanit will be at least some more hours:P03:06
teKI plan mirroring it as soon as I can monitor the consumed traffic ;p03:08
rawI'm seeding the iso03:08
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sepencongratulations cruxers!03:09
namenlosi would seed, too, but i don't think the firewalls of my company would allow me to ;)03:09
sepenthanks team to released!03:09
tilman:)03:10
rehabdollCurrent bandwidth utilization 9.83 Mbit/s03:11
rezziei am one of them03:12
rawteK: close to opensuse traffic ;)03:12
rezzieis there md5sum for crux-2.3.iso03:12
rawyes03:12
rehabdollhttp://fredrik.obra.se/crux/crux-2.3/iso/crux-2.3.iso.md503:12
rehabdoll..03:12
teK50854463551fa9985c91a1b16bcc2f2d  public_html/crux-2.3.iso03:12
rezziematch!03:14
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sepenyesterday was my bithday and today 2.3 is released (my birthday present) jejjjje03:40
tilmanhui, late happy birthday03:41
sepenxD03:53
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sepenthanks teK03:53
sepenthanks tilman03:53
sepens/(tabcompletions)03:54
teKhey, congrats :p03:54
sheva7Hi everybody. Congratulations with the 2.3 release. Just one thing. I think there is a mistake in the handbook. As fas as I know there is no more /dev/hd? devices in the 2.6.20. They are /dev/sd? now or I'm wrong?03:55
tilmanyes, you're wrong :P03:56
teKthere's a note about SCSI/S-ATA discs below this passage03:56
sheva7Ok I'll check it one more time. Thanks03:56
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rehabdollif you use libata you'll get sd* devices for regular ide-drives04:02
teKsince .20?04:03
rehabdollyeah04:03
tilmanbut you also need to enable the new style drivers in the kernel for that, no?04:03
rehabdollbut most libata drivers are still unstable04:03
rehabdollno04:03
rehabdollerrt04:03
rehabdollyeah04:03
teKsounds _fun_ ...04:03
rehabdollheh, the SC1200 libata-driver seems stable.. marked with "(Raving Lunatic)" :D04:07
sheva7\quit04:13
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teKxorg was in opt, .. does this mean it is not officially supported? (as your disclaimer includes core and opt only)04:24
tilmanwhat disclaimer?04:24
teKDISCLAIMER: the ports not belonging to the core and opt collections are provided by contributors; there is no guarantee or support by the CRUX04:25
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treachwell. I'm not sure anyone but tilman is fully up to the task of supporting modular Xorg. :P04:27
tilmanteK: source?04:27
* rxi takes the plunge with 2.304:29
treachgotta say I'm surprised by the rate people keep pulling 2.3.04:30
rxino mirrors yet :(04:30
tilmanuploaded: 10 gb04:30
tilmanINSANE04:30
tilmani have a theory04:30
tilmanhalf the planet wants it because we have such a neat xorg environment04:30
tilman:D04:30
treachI've put up 5,2 GB04:30
rxitilman: lol dont hurt your arm trying to pat yourself on your back :P04:31
tilmanj/k04:31
rxihehe i guessed that04:32
teKtilman: http://crux.nu/portdb/04:33
rxioh yay 5.5k/s04:33
teKI pushed about 4MB/s via bittorrent for 2.204:33
teKrxi: your DL rate for the ISO?04:33
rxiyeah04:34
rxiim shaped tho04:34
rxidialup speeds ftw04:34
teKprivate messages forbidden for unregistered users darned04:34
rxiyeah04:34
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teKrxi: please give me your email address04:36
rxiwhy?04:36
teK5.5k/s is a pain in the ass04:37
rxiwell thats the best im gunna get til 2am04:37
teKok04:38
rxicos my internet connection is shaped04:38
rxigoing from 8mb to 64k sucks major wang04:38
teKwell here we have 2Mbit/s down and soemthing about 512kBit/s up for 40+ users04:41
teKand *all* E-Mailtraffic in and out for about 70 users goes via this line, too04:42
guaquawhat is the difference between rc2 and the final one?04:43
tilmanzero04:46
tilmanrc2 wasn't published anyway04:46
tilman:P04:46
guaquahmm04:47
guaquai meant rc1 :F04:48
tilmanthe font issue has been fixed04:49
guaquaxorg related?04:53
tilmantes04:53
tilmanyes04:53
guaquait's not even installed on my system, so i guess :)04:53
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prologichmm I've only pushed 348M :)05:02
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namenlosanyone tried to build wmii-snap20070304?05:24
sepenls -la05:28
prologicI don't get ReactOS at all05:30
prologic:/05:30
rehabdollcool hack though05:30
RomsterO_o05:33
RomsterReactOS be good for the windoze ppl that want to use windoze programs that don't work on wine well.05:34
Romsterhoping ReactOS be good for gamming.05:35
Romsteras my games suck on wine..05:35
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ningonamenlos: use the hg-version05:40
ningonamenlos: 20070304 is broken05:41
ningonamenlos: there was a new snapshot released the same day05:41
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namenlosningo: the 20070304 version is broken, too...05:54
namenlosthanks for the informaiton. but i think i'll wait for a new snapshot, instead of installing hg...05:55
ningonamenlos: hg is very stable and hasn't changed in the last 5 days05:58
ningothat's because 3.6 is around the corner05:58
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jkrDoes upgrading to 2.3 need anything more than ports -u && prt-get sysup?06:02
jkrAnd updating the rsync-files before that of course06:04
sheva7I think that won't upgrade to the 2.3 since your ports in the /etc/ports are referring to the 2.2 branch06:06
jkrThat's why I said "updating rsync files" :)06:07
sheva7Oh, I see06:07
sheva7I beleive it will do the trick06:07
sheva7but some package replacements has to be done manually06:08
jkrFine :) *update*06:08
sheva7since the X11 replaced with set of the xorg packages06:08
sheva7and other replacements too06:08
jkrI don't have xorg installed :)06:08
ningoW00T 133706:08
jkrIt's a server06:09
sheva7look at the package replacements carefully in the changelog06:10
sheva7maybe it will work for you06:10
sheva7I didn't do the upgrade yet06:10
tilmani'd use the upgrade/setup script06:11
jkrWhere can I find that?06:12
tilmansetup on the iso ;)06:12
jkrHrhr06:12
jkrI don't even have a CD drive06:12
treachthis is your opportunity then, to provide install floppies. :P06:14
jkrEven if I had a floppy drive, I couldn't use it since the server is located somewhere in Frankfurt :)06:15
rehabdolli upgraded my server with sysup06:15
rehabdollno issues06:15
jkrBut I could call the tech support in the data center there and make him sit in front of my server for hours, changing floppy disks :)06:15
treach:D06:15
Romsteri've done a box to crux 2.3 ages ago06:15
Romstermanually06:16
Romsternot much effort06:16
treachhow?06:16
treachsince 2.3 was released just a few hours ago..06:16
Romsterchange to the 2.3 repu ports -u06:16
treachhow could it be "ages ago"?06:16
Romsteri got it from the repo06:16
Romsterwell month ago i changed it over06:17
rehabdolli've used the 2.3 tree for months too06:17
Romsteri built the new tool chain myself06:17
Romsterrecompiled the kernel recomiled all of core and removed old packages06:17
Romsterand installed ones that where missing. then updated all the aditional packages i had on the box06:17
treachI guess australian "ages" are short then.06:18
Romsterhow hard could that be..06:18
treachno wonder your clock is speeding.06:18
Romsterwell might of been 2 months ago or 3 i didn't set a time when.06:18
treachlol.06:18
jkrAre there plans to host the source tarballs of core and opt ports on crux servers, so we don't depend on third party people?06:18
rehabdolljkr: no06:19
jkr:(06:19
Romsterthe cd preaty much would do a update on built ports.06:19
rehabdollunless you can donate hardware and bandwidth :)06:19
Romsterwould be nice if it used bittorrent and everyone that used crux be a node.06:19
jkrHehe, I could host some smaller source packages, but I have only 500G traffic/month06:19
treachwell.06:20
treachwould that be a problem?06:20
treachie. is there enough cruxers to cause 500GB/month traffic?06:20
tilmanas of 2.3, yes06:21
tilman;)06:21
jkrI don't know :)06:21
unexistBet the problem is he don't want to use the whole traffic for Crux. ;)06:21
Romsterlol yeah06:21
treachunexist: true, but still.06:21
Romsteralot is downloading 2.306:21
Romsterjkr, you could setup a limit on that irectory06:21
Romsterdirectory*06:21
treach"cause 500GB/month" doesn't mean all 500GB has to come from crux.06:21
rehabdolldo crux.nu actually host the sources that are included in the cd? it would have to to actually comply with the gpl :)06:22
Romsterapache module or some other method06:22
rehabdolldoubt anybody cares though :)06:22
unexistSure, it was just a hint. ;)06:22
Romsterrehabdoll, hrmm it dosn't have to be on the cd but aviable iirc06:22
Romsterand the making of the iso is in the git repo.06:23
rehabdolli mean all the core/opt packages that are included as binary packages on the cd06:23
Romsteralong with the 2.3 ports tree and sources from the projects web sites.06:23
rehabdollthey need to be available from the distributor06:23
Romsterports tree06:23
Romsteralong with the downloads.06:23
rehabdollie: all the glibc, gcc, bash etc sources06:24
Romsteri don't see how it is as being wrong06:24
jkrA traffic limit wouldn't work, because when the limit is reached, all Pkgfiles with source URLs to my server would be broken06:24
Romsterjkr, i've had thoughts of either a mirror array in Pkgfiles or in pkgmk.conf or some sort of distrbuted sources and maybe binary packages too idea but never even bothered to do such an idea yet.06:25
Romsterround robbin dns for downloads like sourceforge do maybe *gags*06:26
Romsterthen when its over the set limit it just looks at another mirror06:26
jkrHehe, sourceforge is the reason why I asked for sources on a CRUX server :)06:26
Romsterbut thats prone to problems06:26
teKthe first step would be maintainers answering mail about broken mirrors/old versions06:26
Romsterjkr, i gathered that :D06:26
jkrteK: That would be cool, too06:27
RomsterteK, i'm always fixin anything thats wrong in my stuff if they report it on irc or mail.06:27
Romsterdunno about others.06:27
* Romster sees if my last email got anything done on a package i sent06:28
jkrIn 2.2, the URLs of shadow & lilo were broken, and I never got an answer *sniff*06:28
Romsterwas even kind enougth to make a patch for it :/06:28
* jkr is going outside smoking06:29
jkrbrb06:29
Romsterbad habbit :D06:30
rehabdolljust add the ip of your favourite sourceforge-mirror to your hosts file06:31
unexistActually it's a good habit to got outside.06:31
unexistgo*06:31
unexistrehabdoll, is there no mirror-select? Most of the SF-mirros just suck anyway.06:31
RomsterteK, with sourceforge they had fixed it so it trys another mirror but it tends to get jamed and a restart useally gets it to work.06:32
unexistAye right, it restarts and restarts and restarts..06:33
Romsteryeah06:34
teKRomster: that's good but there are others, too.06:37
teKimho it's a) not up to crux to host the sources and b) unnecessary if the maintainers keep there Pkgfiles in sync06:38
Romsteryeah true, a mirror array in either the Pkgfile or in pkgmk.conf would be the best bet.06:38
Romsterimo06:38
bd2omg. people, just use gentoo distfiles. there are lots servers ;-)06:38
teKfor example, yes06:38
Romsterheh06:38
bd2depots patch for pkgmk is in mailing list, dated 2005, iirc06:38
Romsteri've used a bsd one b406:39
Romsterdepots?06:39
bd2yeah.. let me find it (once again ;-)06:40
Romsteron the ML?06:40
bd2yup06:41
Romsterhmm is but 2005 sometime probbly hidden or not on my client now06:41
Romsterno ones updated firefox yet hmmz06:41
treachno one?06:42
tilman"no one has"06:43
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treachI know jaeger tested the beta stuff last night, as did I.06:43
Romsterjaeger then...06:43
treachI guess we don't count.06:43
bd2https://mail.fukt.bth.se/pipermail/crux/2005-December/005977.html06:43
Romster2.0.0.306:43
treachRomster: ffs, it must have been announced the last few hours06:44
treachit was carrying some beta warning when I upgraded.06:44
treachA bit early to start going on about "no one updated" it.06:45
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Romsteroh i hadn't seen that i thoguht it was stable...06:46
Romstermeh fine i'll always look for myself...06:46
Romsterthan to trust others06:47
Romsterall i heard was 2.0.0.3 was out.... no one said it was a beta and not stable...06:47
treachreread what I wrote above, please.06:47
Romsteryes a few hours ago it was mentained as a beta06:49
Romsteri've scriolled back and i have NOT spotted it yet06:50
Romstertoo much on my backlog..06:50
Romsterfuck looking for it, waste of effort since i know its a beta06:51
treachRomster: it's not.06:51
treachIt *was*, but now it isn't.06:51
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Romsterfigures..06:53
Romsterbd2, hmm not a bad patch idea.06:54
Romsterbd2, i assume you keep your own version of this patch in your repo?06:55
* Romster looks for myself06:56
jkrUpgrade of expat broke elinks :(06:57
treachand a lot of other things.06:57
Romsterthen rebuild elinks?06:57
Romsterrevdep is handy06:58
treachprt-get update -fr $(prt-get depends expat)06:58
jkrI did, just wanted to get some charity06:58
Romsterheh06:58
prologictreach, that won't work06:58
treachI know06:58
prologicthat'll just update expat06:58
treachdependent.06:58
prologic*nods*06:58
prologicbut even dependent won't work06:59
treachoh right,06:59
Romsterquickdep06:59
prologicI have noticed therae are core/opt ports and probably contirb ones too that don't list depdancices06:59
treachI forgot the awk part..06:59
prologicand just assume they're on the system06:59
prologicso it's hard to tell if something is linked to expat06:59
treachprologic: why wouldn't that work?07:00
prologicjkr, treach's suggestion will work for a small limited number of ports07:00
prologicjkr, the rest of the broken ones you'll have to find yourself :)07:00
treachprt-get dependent lists the depending ports in a nice little list..07:00
prologicyes I know07:00
prologicbut only if the port listed them07:00
Romsteri much prefer revdep07:00
Romsterand rebuilding whats broken07:00
treachah, right.07:00
prologicthere are _some_ ports that don't list _all_ their dependancies unfortunately07:00
prologicand just assume they're installed07:00
prologicI wish it weren't the case, but it is :/07:00
prologicmost likely because of the Per Liden's base ports that never had the "Depends on:" line in the Pkgfiles07:01
prologicand I think we still adopt this :/07:01
Romsteri actually think even core Pkgfiles should list dependencys and prt-get be intelagent to not list core ports07:01
jkrI have only opt and core ports installed, so I hope the dependencies are ok07:01
prologicactually it seems core ports are now starting to list dependancies, but unfortunately some of them are incomplete07:01
prologicRomster, they do now07:02
prologicjkr, if your box is fast enough, just rebuild everything :)07:02
Romsteroh07:02
Romsterin 2.3?07:02
prologic/usr/ports/core07:02
prologic$ egrep "Depends on" */Pkgfile | wc -l07:02
prologic2707:02
jkrprologic: 700MHz :)07:02
prologic:)07:03
jkrAnd I'm compiling gcc ATM07:03
prologicactually you could just scp the binaries for gcc glibc over07:03
prologicsave yourself some time07:03
prologicand just pkgadd them07:03
Romsterheh be about half a day for a tool chain...07:04
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jkrWhere can I get the binary packages from (not the ISO please) :)07:05
treachwhat's wrong with the iso?07:05
prologictreach, 27% of core ports list their dependencies, 70% of opt ports list theirs07:05
treachand..?07:05
prologicoh wait I think I'm wrong07:05
treach3% lists other ports deps?07:05
prologicit would seem there are inconsistencies in the Pkgfiles :)07:06
prologicsome people use slightly different variants of "Depends on:" :)07:06
prologicthough prt-get seems to be smart enough to match them perhaps07:06
bd2Romster, I'm not sure which repo you're talking about.. but there is no any (mine) repo, except pkgutils-c, in which yes, depots patch merged07:07
prologicjkr, mount -o loop /path/to/iso /path/to/iso/mount/point07:07
Romsterah its in the new pkgutils-c07:08
prologictreach, actually I"m right those figures are correct07:08
Romsterbd2, don't you have a repo of your own?07:08
prologicdid a egrep "depends" -i */Pkgfile | wc -l07:08
jkrI just hoped that I don't have to download the whole ISO, but the torrent seems to be very fast07:08
prologic28 for core, 324 for opt07:08
Romsterlooking ont he crux ports db and don't see it unless its under another name.07:08
jkr~2.8M/s07:08
Romstersoem of opt lsits core on the dependencys07:09
bd2Romster, nope.. I don't have httpup repo :-/07:09
namenlosningo: are you using wmii with rc ?07:09
Romsterbd2, oh why not? not bothered in having your own private repo?07:09
rawnamenlos: no07:09
prologic$ egrep "depends.*core" -i */Pkgfile | wc -l07:09
prologic007:09
prologicRomster, no they don't07:10
namenlosok07:10
bd2Romster, yup. I'm still dreaming about less restricted contrib repo. Should write motion, finally ;-)07:10
Romsterprologic, look again prt-get info libpng07:13
Romsterhas zlib is that not in core :/07:13
Romsteri'm sure there is others.07:13
Romsterbd2, heh07:13
Romstercontrib isn't that restriced now?07:14
Romsterwould be nice if more did pitch in to contrib imo07:14
Romsterprologic, your btpd port lists core ports, isn't that forbidden?07:17
jkrHas shadow been updated since release of 2.3?07:20
Romsternope07:21
Romsterhrmm but not sure i hadn't used the iso07:21
jkrI did pkgadd -u on the shadow tarball on the ISO, but prt-get diff still shows shadow07:21
Romsteri'll use the iso on my desktop07:21
Romsterbut the other box is already on 2.307:22
Romsterjkr, a later version?07:22
jkrISO: shadow#4.0.18.1-4.pkg.tar.gz | prt-get diff says: shadow              4.0.18.1-4 (installed)         4.0.18.1-5 (available)07:23
Romsterand did a prt-get cache first b4 a diff07:23
jkrHmm, ok07:23
Romsternew revision07:23
Romsterto be expected they changed it since the cd.07:23
Romsteralthough rather quick.07:23
jkrERROR: Downloading 'ftp://ftp.pld.org.pl/software/shadow/shadow-4.0.18.1.tar.bz2' failed.07:29
jkr:(07:29
treachyeah..07:29
treachget it from a gentoo mirror instead.07:29
jkrHehe07:29
treachit's been broken a long time now.07:29
jkrBut why is the port updated and the URL left broken?07:30
raw*.pl07:30
treachjkr: maybe the maintainer doesn't know?07:30
treachhe might be using his local copy of the source.07:30
jkrThen someone should tell him :)07:31
rawhttp://tldp.org/HOWTO/Shadow-Password-HOWTO-3.html07:32
rawdon't mind clicking any links, I tested them already.07:32
rawNone of them works...07:32
jkrHmm, gotta pretend to be working for a while, bbl07:32
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Romsterheh07:42
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NineDNinehello08:07
tilmanhey08:08
NineDNineWell the installation went great, now I am at the last step :)08:08
tilmanprologic: could you bump your subversion-perl port?08:08
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NineDNineEdit /etc/lilo.conf to boot the kernel08:09
tilmanNineDNine: ok?08:11
NineDNinedoes anyone have any have an example of the lilo.conf file they used08:11
tilmanNineDNine: can you google for one?08:12
NineDNinei see a couple on the web, but they seem quite different08:12
tilmanthere is no "CRUX lilo.conf"08:12
tilmanit's not crux specific anyway08:12
NineDNinei see, I'll try the one I found on the web08:12
NineDNineI'll edit it of course :P08:12
tilman:D08:12
tilmanprologic: ping ping ping08:16
* treach hands tilman a depthcharge08:16
tilman:D08:16
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jkrre08:27
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RomsterNineDNine, http://pastebin.ca/40501508:32
haaryThere is currently a discussion in german wikipedia if the article about crux should be removed.08:33
haaryLook at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:L6schkandidaten/21._M%A4rz_2007#CRUX_Linux08:33
rawARGH, MY EYES!!08:34
rawevil colorcodes08:34
haaryNo, umlauts ...08:35
tilmanlooks pretty yellow/green to me08:36
rawwell, colorcodes for irssi ;)08:36
raw"Ich kann kein Herausstellungmerkmal gegenüber anderen Linuxdistribution erkennen, das einen Artikel rechtfertigen würde."08:36
rawHe obviously uses Gentoo or Debian.08:36
haaryI think, he is just a linux hater08:37
rehabdollwhat does the above translate to?08:38
treachLöschung? what's that?08:38
haaryHave a look at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRUX_Linux and then click "diskussion", that's easier :-)08:40
teKrehabdoll: there's nothing that makes CRUX outstanding compared to other distros so there's no justification for this article08:40
teKtreach: remove08:40
treachah.08:40
raw"I cannot see a characteristic feature compared with other linux distributions that would warrant an wikipedia article.08:40
raws/an/a/08:41
teKGentoo's Services are not configured via a rc.conf, nor their network. IMHO this is just one of quite some examples that make CRUX outstanding..08:41
haaryteK: I would call crux's port system sort of unique08:41
teKjep08:41
teK_completely_ "uncontrolled" user supplied repos are outstanding, too08:42
rawI find this highly hypocritical. Arch is a descendant of CRUX but arch is not subject to deletion.08:42
teKgenerally I'd say: so what ...08:42
treachso?08:43
tilmanindeed08:43
tilmanso what08:43
rawteK: well, debian isn't subject to deletion either, allthough many are swimming on the ubuntu hype ;)08:43
treachhow is anything on the web "controlled" then?08:43
tilmani could only care a tiny little less08:43
tilman:P08:44
haaryraw: there was, look at the discussion page of Arch Linux (8. Februar 2007)08:44
treachremove windows from wp too then.08:44
rawhaary: Ok, in this case there's something wrong with the wikipedians. ;)08:44
treachit's apparently completely uncontrolled as well by the independedt code controllers that have to inspect anything that gets listed on wp..08:44
treachindependent*08:45
teKIIRC Wikipedia runs on Debian :>08:51
j^2hey all08:53
teKhi there08:54
NineDNinehello08:54
rehabdollhi j[]08:54
j^2hey :D08:55
NineDNineoh wow, i feel smart, I was installing 2.2 with the 2.3 handbook...08:55
teKnow you're missing X :>08:55
NineDNinesomething like that :)08:56
NineDNineok, now I got it back to where it needs to be09:00
NineDNinenow it's time to boot from the dist for the first time :)09:00
NineDNine:/ my cd drive wount open09:03
treach:D09:04
treachumount the cd then.09:04
NineDNinegot it09:04
tilmanRomster: hello?09:07
NineDNinethere's that disabling IRQ #15 thing again, at least i know how to fix it this time...09:08
rxitilman: he could be asleep since its 0107 here atm09:09
tilmanit seems he managed to fuck up contrib.git09:11
treachbah, romster never sleeps. he just inhales another dose of slovent-vapour.09:11
Romsterhi09:15
Romsterwhat i do sleep but at odd times09:15
Romsteri didn't fuck any git up... i talked long and hard in #git and asked in crux-devel but no one knew much about git so i took the advice i got from #git09:17
Romsterto import my contrib ports without touching others..09:18
Romsterand i got some work to update them too but be too busy till next week09:18
tilmandon't touch the 2.3 branch for now please09:18
tilmanwe need to resolve some issues09:18
Romsteri had waited for ages and asked numerious of times in the devel channel...09:19
Romsterk09:19
Romsterwell i don't have time till monday or tuesday todo anything.09:19
Romsteri got more work this weekend and tomorrow.09:19
tilmanwhat the hell09:20
Romsterand i seem to get all the blame...09:20
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jkrHui, people are leeching 2.3 really hard09:23
jaegerindeed09:24
treachI guess that's what comes from being on top of the list at dw.09:24
Romstertilman, if it really bothers you just kill off what i've done and do a new branch to 2.3 off 2.209:25
Romsterif thats any easier but i gathered, notto touch other ppls ports, and not all will be needed in 2.3 anyways..09:26
jkrHehe, I'm seeding 500K/s and they're leeching ~440K/s from me09:26
tilmanRomster:  still need to get the big picture09:27
tilmannot sure i should be pissed off at you or not09:27
Romsteri have the command ect that i used todo it if that helps09:27
Romstereveryone else gets pissed off at me :/09:28
Romsterseems i bug treach09:28
treachwell, not really. just sometimes.09:28
Romsteri didn't branch it i made a empty 2.3 and then added some ports from 2.2 that are mine.09:29
tilmanthat seems a bit weird09:29
Romsteri'm not the best but at least i do try :/09:29
treachRomster: Not to put you down, but there is something that is more important than anything in any kind of group effort.09:30
treachdo you know what that is?09:30
rehabdolltell us treach!09:31
rehabdoll:)09:31
tilmanasking #git how to handle our repos?09:31
tilmaninstead of the local git people?09:31
treachhehe09:31
treachI'm not sure the local gits are the best source. ;)09:31
tilmanyeah, but they would have liked to know09:31
treachyeah.09:32
treachthat's what I'm getting at.09:32
treachRomster: it's COMMUNICATION.09:32
rehabdollgees, these banking phishing attempts.. im surprise they have yet to master the swedish languange09:33
NineDNinelol09:33
rehabdollthey make sure the fake page looks real good etc, but they completely fuck it up with the mail09:34
treachwell, I guess there's not a lot of swedish speaking nigerians princes around..09:34
NineDNinelol09:34
rehabdoll:)09:34
treachnigerian*09:34
Romstertilman, i did ask them if i could jsut branch it then deleate whats not mine and the others can add it later but they said in #git that would be not a wise move. and i was talking to the ones that submit patches to git not the lower life of that channel i have logs if you wanna read them09:34
Romsteri've aked here look in the damn logs, seriously..09:35
Romsterasked*09:35
Viper_i think it would be the best to branch just all ports.. no matter if they are your ones09:35
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tilmanRomster: next time, have such important decisions acknowledged by crux people.09:36
tilmanRomster: like, Viper_, sip, jaeger or me09:36
tilmancause i don't remember this discussion at all09:36
jjpkYou have to be persistent, use multiple media.09:36
tilmanand asking #git for what to do with OUR TREE IS JUST PLAIN DUMB09:36
tilmanhow the fuck can they decide09:36
jjpkYou probably mentioned it only once, that is no excuse to throw the concensus out the window.09:36
Romsteri've asked int he devel channel and all i get was shrugs the main ppl are always off, i've emailed sip he hasn't even done a port update and its been a few days now..09:37
Romsteri was talking to jaeger alot actually...09:37
tilmanduplicating every port in each branch is dumb09:37
tilmanyou have no sane history09:37
tilmanetc09:37
Romsternot that it matters now..09:37
tilmaninfuckingdeed09:38
Romsterso i was ment to branch and in the process import ports that arn't mine that likely won't work right in 2.309:38
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Romsterjsut kill my 2.3 off i got a copy09:38
Romsterand rebranch it.09:38
Romsteri'll jsut reedit all my stuff again.09:39
Romsterand i was aware of loosing the history of the edits, i was told of that but shouldn't a new crux version have a clean start anyways.09:41
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namenloshi, i updated to crux 2.3 and it seems, that i've oversight something...09:45
namenloselinks and xorg complains about libexpat, or something, like that..09:45
treachyeah, expected.09:46
treachrebuild them.09:46
namenlosall packages depending on expat?09:46
treachanything that depends on expat needs to be rebuilt09:46
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namenlosok, thanks for that... (seems that i need more expreience in c/c++ development...)09:47
namenlosi do that with prt-get -fr update <those packages>?09:48
treachyeah.09:49
namenlosok.09:49
treachlook in the log for an example of how to avoid too much typing. ;)09:50
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namenloswhich log?09:51
namenlosi did it with prt-get -fr update `prt-get depends expat`09:52
treachyeah.09:52
treachI mentioned that a bit up.09:52
namenlosyes, but i'm even not able to use elinks... it also complains about the expat so09:53
namenlos;)09:53
RedShifthey guys, what do you use for web statistics generation?09:53
namenlosawstats?09:53
RedShiftis it any good?09:53
treachnamenlos: you should probably use "dependent"09:53
namenlostreach: yes, that was a typo in irssi (i think i did it correct in the shell)09:54
treachok09:54
treachwell, elinks works here, so..09:55
treachhowever, note that elinks isn't listed by prt-get dependent.09:56
namenlosmaybe elinks uses the p5-xml-parser...09:56
Romsternamenlos, run revdep09:56
treachor it's an unlisted, optional dep.09:56
Romsterrebuild anything thats broken.09:56
namenlosk09:56
namenlosok, when i use revdep, elinks shows up...09:59
Romsteryep so rebuild elinks10:00
Romster-fr10:00
Romsterafter any updates that other ports rely on i run revdep to make sure nothing is broken.10:00
namenlosk (already discovered the -fr switch ;) )10:01
Romsterhehe10:03
jkrThe french switch?10:04
nipuLhttp://nipul.die.net.au/tat.jpg10:04
rawjkr: yeah, runs make french instead of make install10:05
NineDNinewhen I booted from the CD for the first time, the kernel started looping disabling IRQ 15, I fixed this by booting with pci=noacpi and everything ran fine10:05
NineDNinethen when I completed installation and boooted from the drive the kernel started looping at disabling IRQ 1510:05
jkrThat's like the widely unknown french bit in AMD CPUs which makes it do a hard reset every $RANDOM minutes10:06
NineDNineso how do I set the kernel to boot with pci=noacpi when booting form the hard drive10:06
treachNineDNine: lilo.conf10:06
NineDNineok, thanks10:07
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rawjkr: and writes BAGUETTE into the system message buffer10:07
RomsterNineDNine, or disable acpi in the kernel and recompile and install.10:07
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Romsterodd that acpi don't work for oyu though10:07
Romsteryou*10:07
treachold broken system.10:07
namenlosok, thank you guys. now the most things work well, again.10:08
treachacpi historically sucked even more than it does today.10:08
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Romsterheh guess so10:09
jkrraw: Yup, and it unshifts characters into the keyboard controllers ring buffer so you keep typing "CHEAPWINE" all the time10:09
jkrIs revdep reliable?10:09
jkrIt seems like all dependencies are fixed now, but I have a bad feeling... :(10:10
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jjpkThe only way to find out is to test the programs you use.10:11
jjpkIf something is broken it will eventually show up.10:11
Romsterjkr, should be...10:11
rawI want to be jjpk when I grow up10:12
Romsteras reliable as ldd is10:12
Romsterlol10:12
tilmanRomster: k, it's not that bad. i apologize for the raging ;)10:20
tilmanfixing it isn't that big an issue10:21
treachromster is still misnamed, he's the one who should call himself "maverick"10:21
tilmanhe's a calf without a mother?10:22
tilman:D10:22
Romsterwhat the10:24
treachnot sure about that, "Loose_cannon" maybe fits better?10:24
Romsterok whats the plan then tilman ...10:24
tilmandon't have time to explain10:25
Romstertreach, no thats more approate for someone thats very unstable, dosasn't fit my description10:25
Romstertilman,  the comamnd would sacfrice.10:26
tilman"they sacrificed a goat", "the goat sufficed as a meal"10:26
tilman</lesson>10:26
Romsterbecause of a silly mistake...10:28
Romsterfigures10:28
treachwould you prefer the truth?10:28
namenlosi got a message when i run rejmerge: Binary files /etc/ld.so.cache and /var/lib/pkg/rejected/etc/ld.so.cache differ10:28
tilmancome on, it's obvious what to do10:28
namenloswhat should i do: keep it and then run ld ?10:28
Romsternamenlos, keep and run ldconfig10:28
treachnamenlos: think about it.10:29
treachnamenlos: it's a cache..10:29
Romsteror update then run ldconfig10:29
namenlossorry, but i'm a java developer...10:29
treachdoesn't matter.10:29
treachhow big do you think the chance is that you can copy a cache of some cdrom and it fits your system?10:30
treachs of/off10:30
namenlosthis was clear to me...10:30
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Romstertreach, onyl time be a freash install of crux i would figure.10:46
Romsterwhy that port even installes a cache and not just generate it.10:47
treachdo'h...10:55
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NineDNinei partitioned my hard drive so that hda1 is 1 gig, this is for the root, hda2 256megabites for the swap, and the 3rd partition is about 2gigs11:34
NineDNinewhen i boot the root will be read only, correct?11:35
NineDNinei mean hda1 will be11:35
treachonly if you set it that way.11:35
NineDNineis that the recomended thing to do?11:35
treachonly if you're paranoid.11:35
NineDNinelol, ok11:36
rehabdollyes, the root-fs gets remounted rw11:36
rehabdollits just as well11:36
NineDNinewhat dirs should i put on hda3, /home /var, any others?11:36
treachdon't ask how to partition, you'll get about 25 different answers. :)11:38
NineDNineok, i'll just use what i read on the web :)11:38
treachjust in general, using separate partitions for /tmp and /var is a good idea.11:39
treachsince filling / is a bad idea, which might happen if /tmp and /var is there.11:39
NineDNineok, thx11:39
rehabdolli only have /usr and /home on separate disks on my desktop11:40
rehabdollmy root uses 235mb11:40
pitilloI think that if you have some server running. (/tmp and /var can grow a lot)  but for desktop use... imo is not really necesary11:40
treachwell, if something goes wrong logfiles might grow *very* quickly.11:42
treachfor instance.11:42
pitillotreach, ummm never noticed that on a desktop. But that is true.11:43
rehabdollyeah i noticed that before i realized that SLiM logs _EVERYTHING_ :)11:43
pitilloumm nice point rehabdoll. This weekend I will take a look to slim's logs11:44
rehabdollas long as you rotate them you'll do fine11:45
rehabdolli log everything to /dev/null :)11:45
treachpitillo: My boss (back then) told me a story about a badly configured SCO server which managed to fill it's rootdisk (about 10GB) because of a broken printer cable.11:45
* jjpk <3 startx11:46
pitillotreach, SCO server... If it is a server, it is a good idea to make separated partitions11:47
rehabdollouch11:47
pitillotreach, But I see your point too11:47
NineDNineis there any reason not to put /dev on hda3?11:47
rehabdolluhh /dev?11:47
NineDNinenever mind11:48
jjpkudev manages /dev dynamically, it has nothing to do with using a partition.11:48
* NineDNine slaps himself11:48
rehabdoll:)11:48
treachpitillo: the problem wasn't related to it being a server, it was related to the bad printer cable.11:51
pitillotreach, understanded. Thanks for that explanation.11:56
treachnp.11:56
pitillo(taking note :)11:57
treachbasically it was like 9 GB of "My printer doesn't talk to me" :)11:57
pitillotreach, 9Gb is a lot of time without looking/notice that "strange" grown..11:58
treachnot if it grows as fast as the disk is capable of writing.11:58
pitillobut is a strong reason to keep it controlled under a fixed partition11:59
treachindeed.11:59
pitilloummm true11:59
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mfdWhat package management system does crux use?12:05
treacha seriously fucked up version of rpm.12:06
mfdtreach: loll12:06
mfdSo what's good about it?12:06
mfdWould you recommend it12:06
treachdepends.12:07
mfdHmm..12:07
treachI'd recommend the website as a first step.12:07
mfdGrand.12:07
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jjpklol12:08
treach"so long and thanks for all the fish"12:08
treachmeh, the handbook apparently didn't get the updated "why" part.12:11
rehabdollhttp://fredrik.obra.se/crux-newlogo.jpg12:17
rehabdoll:)12:17
rawhttp://h-quer.org/tmp/obsd_kurs.jpg12:17
tilmanraw: oh my12:19
sepenrehabdoll, http://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/logo.png12:19
rawrehabdoll: ew12:20
rawrehabdoll: hary12:20
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Romsterlol looks more like a furby12:30
tilmanit's a killer furby12:30
tilmanit kills newbs12:30
tilmanNOOOO KIDDING12:30
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tilmani think the crux forum guy is running arch now12:34
tilman:D12:34
NineDNinewhat happened to the forum?12:35
tilmandon't remember12:36
tilmanmost crux users prefer mailing lists or irc12:36
NineDNineoh, i need to join the mailing list12:36
rehabdollforums are for arch-users :)12:37
jjpkcrux has strong old school preferences ;)12:42
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Romsteri prefer irc12:58
blizzhow would i update a server running crux 2.2? updating /etc/ports and doing a sysup?13:00
rehabdollthe safest way would be the cd13:01
rehabdollbut i had no issues updating with ports on two of my machines13:01
tilmanthe 2nd best way is to pkgadd -u the packages from the iso13:01
tilmani wouldn't recommend updating glibc or gcc via ports13:01
blizztilman, good point. i think glibc could fubar the system because of inconsitencies :)13:02
blizzi'll boot a rescue system and use that to update it via the iso, then13:02
tilmanok13:03
tilmanblizz: the setup script has a fancy "update" mode, in case you don't remember ;)13:04
blizzright, just saw that :P installing it in a qemu vm right now13:04
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treachman, people are mad about 2.3..13:10
treachif this keeps up, the torrent will pass 2.2 in no time.13:11
tilmanalmost 16gb pushed :D13:12
treachalmost 10 here.13:12
treachstrange it doesn't get any higher though.13:13
treachI haven't throttled it.13:13
jjpkNot like you are about to run out of bandwidth :p13:14
treachnope.13:14
treachI was pushing like 500KB/s for a while, but it slowed down again.13:14
treachhehe, it just made a jump. :P13:15
treachnow it's 700+ :P13:15
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treachah, that explains it, some student in Jönköping started to pull..13:16
jjpklol13:17
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treach..and there he was done. :D13:17
treachback to ~100KB/s13:18
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caraca1Hello everyone.14:26
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j^2greetings14:34
jjpkhi14:36
caraca1Soo anyone working anything new and exciting lately.14:37
j^2we just released 2.3 ;)14:38
caraca1Is the iso up?14:38
j^2you have to grab the torrent14:38
jjpkEasiest way right now is to use the torrent.14:38
tilmanwe have the worlds fastest seeds on BT14:38
jaegerthe release announcement has a torrent link in it14:38
caraca1yaahhhhh14:38
j^2so we dont bog down the serrver14:38
tilman1mb/s guarateneed14:38
caraca1Cool downloading it now anyone tried it yet?14:38
j^2:D14:39
treachhttp://crux.nu:6969/  I'd say so.14:41
jjpkSome users have said it works, and the release notes say nothing special.14:41
tilmanomfg14:41
jjpk:D14:43
jjpkNot bad considering 2.3 is fresh out of the oven.14:44
treachIndeed.14:45
caraca1Theoreticly if someone wanted to say host like 500 crux binary packaes via BT on a connection with 6745 kbps download speed & 217 kbps upload speed would they see a huge performance hit in there network connection if a hundred people were downloading?14:45
jjpkDepends how much bandwidth you allocate to BT.14:46
caraca190%14:46
jjpkAlso depends on how many other seeds besides you are online.14:46
jkrAnd how many leechers reseed after leeching :)14:46
jkrHrmpf14:46
caraca1Lets say for the first month i would be the only one.14:46
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jkr217kbps isn't really much14:47
caraca1What does Hrmpf mean?14:47
jkrIt means that I'm annoyed because jjpk typed faster than me14:47
jjpk:p14:48
caraca1Im more in the 350 - 400 kbps range but i was seeding when i ran the speed test14:48
guaquai set to limit share ratio to 714:48
jkrHe, with 217K/s it takes about a month until one leecher as finished the download, so you're right, you'll be very alone :D14:48
caraca1I have a second server here http://www.freeweb7.com/ im just try to figure out what the best possable solution would be for me to offer crux binary packages that i build.14:51
jkrI think crux.nu:6969 should honor uber-seeders like me with a "special CRUX friend" or something like that :)14:51
treachK/s isn't a unit >.<14:51
jkrtreach: Works fine here :)14:52
treachI doubt that. Are you on some anti-diet-diet? :P14:52
jkrHrhr14:52
jkrYou're just trying to distract me from my "CRUX friend" tag idea14:53
caraca1Wow im download this crux iso at 1 meg + a sec14:53
treachit's like that retarded use of mb/s14:53
jkrStill better than 1 meg + a sec :)14:53
tilmancaraca1: that's what i promised :)14:53
treachwhat's that? A millibit per second..14:53
jjpk1980 just came calling back... :D14:53
treachI think they had that beat even back then.14:54
jjpkI think Sun had developed something like 3mb networking in the late 1970s, so probably yeah.14:55
guaquai've only uploaded 13 Megabytes :(14:55
guaquaand i have 100/100 connection14:55
jaegerI've seeded 9250+6853 MB14:56
jkrdone      243.6 MB Rate: 150.5 /   0.0 KB Uploaded:  3697.3 MB                 [   R: 15.17 high]14:56
jkr:D14:56
jjpk0.5/0.5 connection here, ~60 mb uploaded :|14:56
guaquai have upload quota though14:56
guaquaso i had to set limits14:56
caraca11.05 kbps upload i wonder why transmission is uploading so slowly.14:58
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* jkr needs food :(14:59
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jjpkMost are probably getting the iso from the fast seeds.15:00
guaquaand my 100/100 isn't fast enough *rolleyes*15:00
jjpkHard to say, bt tends to work in odd ways.15:01
caraca1Hmmm looks like ill have tu upgrade to the t1 package.15:01
jkrI limited upload to 500K/s, but people just don't leech. Highest upload for now was about 350K/s15:02
caraca1Now i am uploading at 50 kbps a sec15:02
caraca1Allright xorg 7.2-115:05
caraca1Who here uses windowmaker?15:06
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jaegernot I15:07
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caraca1Crap madwifi was removed!!! grrr15:08
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caraca1Well everything looks really good in this changelog for 2.3 only thing that i would have done is included madwifi and replaced blackbox with the current xfce415:11
tilman:)15:11
tilmanxfce4 is available in ports15:11
tilmanhttp://crux.nu/portdb/?a=getup&q=xfce15:11
caraca1Nahhh i like to build xfce4 my self makes good practice for makeing hal work.15:12
caraca1Nice job i am really really happy about the xorg update!!15:14
caraca1I was wondering what filesystem everyone prefers?15:16
jkrXFS :)15:16
tilmancrapfs15:16
guaquareiser ftw15:17
jkrHrhr, Reiser for prison!15:17
caraca1crapfs?15:17
caraca1So do you think the the reiserfs will end up vaporware?15:19
jkrDoes Hans continue development at all?15:20
guaquathere's reiser415:20
jkrI mean, is he in prison already?15:21
caraca1Hans is in prison and i thought he was selling the company off.15:21
j^2i trust reieserfs...if he killed his wife...he's a perfectionist :P...15:21
jkrHrhr15:21
j^2oh..and gets away with it :P15:21
guaquakilled his wife? :S15:21
j^2i forgot that part :D15:21
caraca1wait he is in jail not prison but he has been charged.15:22
jkrI bet her last words were "Damn, your sh*tty FS crashed again!"15:22
j^2hahah15:22
jkrOr "You'll never make it into the kernel!"15:22
caraca1I ave never had reiserfs crash on me.15:22
caraca1But i did have a 40 gig usb hard drive just die that was useing the reiserfs15:23
caraca1I have a $100.00 paper weight now15:24
jkrThat's normal, everyone knows that Linux makes more use of hard drives than other systems, so they break faster15:24
caraca1Haaa Haa15:25
jkrAt least that's what that online shop said when that guy sent a broken HD with Linux on it back to have it repaired :D15:25
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caraca1Soo i have this story about when my ex employer switched from redhat to windows xp15:27
rawWRONG BITCH, I THINK I SPEAK FOR [ see http://bash.org/?99060 for details ]15:28
caraca1See i was hired from i think monster.com and the reason i was hired was for my unix/linux exsperance15:28
tilmanraw: :D :D15:29
caraca1What i did not know was that my job was going to be to remove redhat from the servers and install xp on them15:29
j^2:D15:29
caraca1Anyway my first day i arive and i see all of these unhappy csr's15:30
caraca1So im looking at these csr's terminals and i notice that everything is locked down everything no internet no nothing besides this gers system.15:32
caraca1Fast forward 5 month :) i took my time as i wasnt to sure about this downgrade from redhat to xp15:32
caraca1So xp is now on everything and all there databases ext are backed up and everthing is working fine15:33
caraca1I get paid and i am dismissed15:33
caraca12 weeks later i get a call15:34
caraca1They want me to uninstall xp and reinstall redhat15:34
tilmanhaha15:34
caraca1Turns out that before everything was secure and locked out15:34
caraca1when they were useing redhat of course15:35
caraca1When i arive i find all of these csr's playing games surfing the net and looking at porn15:35
rawI wonder if true for CRUX as well;15:36
caraca1And half of the systems were down with viruses15:36
rawhttp://forums.polserver.com/viewtopic.php?p=7634#763415:36
caraca1I tried to get them to let me install crux it was a no go they wanted there redhat 6 back15:36
caraca1So i did and that took me 5 more months and the whle exsperance cost them 47 new harddrives15:38
tilmancaraca1: what's CSR?15:38
caraca1Turns out the virus they got was some kind of hardware killer i could not figure it out the drives were totaly non responsive.15:38
caraca1Customer Service Rep15:39
jjpkTLA hell in the making :D15:39
jjpk= three letter acronym15:40
caraca1And i educated the big wigs on why gnu/linux is good and microcrap is bad i think that will be the last time they listen to some ms spoke person.15:40
caraca1Please forgive the spelling errors i am a great reeader but terrible speller15:41
caraca1And i just plain out don't give a shit.15:42
tilmanwe're kinda used to it around here15:42
tilman:)15:42
tilmans/it/that/15:42
* j^2 looks embarrassed15:42
tilmani didn't mean you15:42
j^2uh-huh :P15:42
tilmanViper_: *yawn*, i'll get to contrib.git tomorrow ;)15:42
caraca1tilman you seem to spend a lot of time on irc.15:43
tilmani sure do!15:43
rawhe is mr. addicted15:43
rawbut sush!15:43
rawhe doesn't like to hear that.15:43
caraca1If you dont mind me asking but do you work or get paid for working on crux somehow15:44
tilmancaraca1: i'm a student, no class today ;)15:44
jjpkNo one gets paid to work on crux.15:44
tilmanso i'm reading up on ... stuff and procrastinating15:44
jkrThe CRUX users love and respect is payment enough!15:44
tilmanlike every good student15:45
rawtilman: ....and the next week. :))15:45
tilmanraw: exam tomorrow o_O15:45
caraca1I personal am a stay at home dad while my wife goes to work for children and youth and i spend my days playing with my little girl teaching her crux and ruby/gtk programming.15:45
tilmanruby <315:46
caraca1timan loves ruby15:46
rawtilman: du wirst doch bis 1.4 vorlesungsfreie zeit haben? :]15:46
caraca1I wish i new c better so i could write my own libs15:47
tilmanthat would be a memorable day, when some guy gets payed to work on crux15:47
tilmanwhoa15:47
sepenpowered by rubygems heheh15:47
tilmanraw: ich bin BA student. keine semesterferien :(15:47
rawtilman: ich auch, bei mir nennt es sich vorlesungsfreie zeit15:47
jkrHrhr, ab 1.4. hab ich Urlaub :>15:48
tilmanraw: musst du nicht in deine firma, wenn du nicht an der uni bist!?15:48
sepensepen, lo siento no puedo comprenderlo xD15:48
caraca1Warum Sie sprechend auf Deutsch sind15:48
rawtilman: was fuer ne firma?!15:48
jkr:D15:48
jjpkSimple really, they are germans ;)15:49
rawtilman: ich arbeite an der uni :))15:49
tilmanraw: dachte an 'ner BA studiert man immer mit ner firma als "praxispartner", in der man seine praxisphasen verbringt15:49
j^2j^2: crazy ass europeans, learn english!15:49
j^2;)15:49
tilmanok!15:49
caraca1Meine Mutter und Papa sind beide aus Deutschland, das ich nie erlernte, es zwar zu sprechen15:49
jkrThey're not only germans, they're students too!15:50
rawtilman: jein15:50
rawjkr: lazy slacking german students15:50
sepenje peut parle aussi en francaise15:50
tilmancaraca1: you're pretty good though:)15:50
jkrHippies!15:50
guaquaali-ihmisten kieliä15:50
sepenjjoajoass15:50
tilmanraw: okay15:50
sepenthis is also german => rammtein15:51
jkrIt's "Rammstein"15:51
sepens/rammtein/rammstein15:51
sepenxD15:51
jkr:D15:51
jjpkI was waiting for this to happen, someone always has to remind everyone about them.15:51
rawtilman: It differs from university to university and your field of study15:52
caraca1Waht ever happend to Per Liden and didnt he design the slackware pkg manager?15:52
caraca1Or was that pkgtools15:52
jjpkPer has nothing to do with slackware.15:52
rawtilman: In some cases you have almost 50/50 and in some other the faculty is like 'bah, we hate it but the government says so, let's change as minimal as possible' :)15:53
tilmancaraca1: are you an old school crux user?15:53
caraca1Wait it was the slackware installer i could of swore i seen his name in the copyright header.15:53
tilmanraw: nice. work ftl15:53
rawtilman: definitely15:53
caraca12.0 if thats old15:53
rawtilman: working is for slackers!15:53
jjpktilman: by BA do you mean business administration?15:53
rawjjpk: no, bachelor15:54
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jjpkoh15:54
tilmanjjpk: nope. it's a german term, the english one is "cooperative school for [blah]"15:54
tilmanbusiness crap ftl, too15:54
guaquaso what does this BA mean? :)15:55
tilman"berufs-akademie"15:55
rawtilman: Heh15:56
caraca1I wasnt refering to crux being based on slackware if thats what anyone was thinking15:56
rawtilman: I was talking about 'Bachelor'15:56
tilmanwithout the hyphen really15:56
tilmanraw: :D15:56
tilmanraw: oh, hehe15:56
caraca1crux and slackware are way differant15:56
tilmangnihihihi15:56
rawshitty abbreviations15:56
caraca1crux is much easyer to use and administer15:56
rawrehabdoll: ping15:57
rawrehabdoll: I need your wallpaper :)15:57
jjpkslack and crux are not really much different.15:57
caraca1I just remember a couple of years ago when i was digging threw the slackware installer i thought i seen Per Liden name15:57
jjpkI would say they have plenty in common, apart from slack using binary rather than source for software.15:57
treachcrux and *SuSE* is way different. :P15:58
rawrehabdoll: nevermind :)15:58
caraca1So does anyone know what ever happend to per and why he chose to stop working on crux?15:58
treachlack of time15:58
rawhe died tragically in a collision with an alien spaceship whilst r00ting their b0x0rz15:58
treachfull time kernel hacker at Ericsson, last I heard.15:58
rawericsson you say?15:59
treachyeah.15:59
rawthe mobil phone branch?15:59
treachno idea.15:59
caraca1Crux feels less bloated and cleaner15:59
caraca1to me15:59
caraca1So how was crux passed down did he just pickup and say see ya or was a leadership role passed down some how.16:01
treachraw: I doubt that. http://tipc.cslab.ericsson.net/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi16:01
tilmanthe clc people took over crux development16:01
treachunless you plan on making a cluster of all the S-E mobiles within range..16:01
guaquawhat's clc?16:01
deus_exCongratulations to dev team for another fine release :)16:01
tilmanit used to be "crux linux community"16:02
* jkr is still compiling :)16:02
rawcaraca1: crux is run by beheaded monkeys16:02
tilmanbeheaded or threeheaded?16:02
rawcaraca1: unknown fact16:02
jkrHa! Now I know where codemonkey.de comes from!16:03
tilmannaw, that fellow has exactly one head16:04
rawbeheaded monkeys have no head ;)16:04
caraca1Does anyone know who works on pkgutils or is it not maintained?16:04
jkrDoes anyone have a firefox#2.0.0.3.pkg.tar.gz for me?16:04
treachwhat are you running it on?16:04
tilmancaraca1: i do. not on a regular basis though16:05
jkrP4 1,8GHz16:05
treachnope, sorry.16:05
jkrWhat compile flags did you use?16:05
treach-march=athlon-xp :D16:05
jkrOh :(16:05
tilman-fomg-optimize16:05
raw-with-love16:05
jkrHrhr16:05
raw-peace16:06
jaegerhttp://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/crux/files/packages/ <-- default optimizations16:06
treachtilman: it's only supposed to be used by myself, so why not?16:06
tilmantreach: i just replied to jkr's question :)16:06
tilmantreach: (i don't think setting march is -fomg-optimize in any way :)16:07
jkrjaeger: default ^= -march=i686 -pipe?16:07
treachok.16:07
jaegeras in the default CRUX flags16:07
jkrIs that "yes"? :)16:08
jaegertechnically, no, because the ones you listed are not default16:08
jaeger-O2 is included16:08
caraca1tilman i am working on a new pkgmanager & pkgfile sheme with ruby the package manager is exactly the same as pkgtools except that i added alot of new features like generateing not only crux pkg's but also slax like modules and a install sheild like gui for eather building from source or mounting pkg modules or installing binarys16:08
jkrjaeger: Ok, thanks16:09
jaegerfor reference, you can check them in /etc/pkgmk.conf16:09
caraca1I also added a bunch of new functions for pkgfile like pre up and downgrade and post up and downgrade16:10
jkrI changed -O2 to -Os, didn't remember the original flags16:11
caraca1etc ad i have been working on a crux system installer with hardware detection16:11
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caraca1Everything is going good except the kernel and xorg tend to disagree about what module certin devices use like my Ati rage 128 pro video card the kernel says "ati" and xorg says "r128" the correct module is r12816:13
tilman"ati" works too though16:14
tilmanthe xorg 'ati' driver is just a stupid wrapper16:14
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tilmanit either loads mach64, r128 or radeon16:14
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fumausing radeon works on my notebook16:15
fumai have a thinkpad T30 with ati graphics16:16
caraca1It makes thing confusing16:17
caraca1I also modifyed  Ddcxinfo to output in yaml :) for use in monitor detection and setup16:19
caraca1When i am happy with the way things work ill submit everything as a port16:21
fumaare the KDE ports for 2.3 ready?16:22
treachthere are no kdeports for 2.316:22
treachI think you're supposed to use alans repo.16:22
fumaoh, i see16:22
caraca1Ohh i was wondering if anyone knows howto or knows were to find info on building kdrive? or tinx with modules? i think i seen something a long timago about building kdrive or tinyx with some basic drivers like r128, vesa i815 etc16:24
caraca1google is noooo help16:24
tilmani wouldn't bother with kdrive16:25
tilmanbut ./configure --enable-kdrive or somesuch should do the trick16:25
tilmani did build it once16:25
caraca1I was asking because i need to see if ruby and gtk will work with a minimal xserver for size if not then ill just strip xorg for the system installer i am building.16:27
fumaany particular reason for kdrive?16:27
tilmanoh16:27
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caraca1No i just read about how you could include drivers for differant video card as i tried xvesa once but an intel i815 video card doesnt work with the vesa driver so i was wondering how many other onboard video cards will have this issue so i decided to research a minal xserver with optional drivers. See what im saying?16:30
fumayeah16:30
caraca1But then again with crux 2.3 haveing xorg 7 im sure i could strip everything to a nice managble size16:31
caraca1Id like to keep an crux iso to under 300 megs16:32
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caraca1So i have been toying with this idea for a hardware confi database were lets say and exsperance user has a nvidia quadro fx 5600 and this user builds a config sheme i guess you could call it with all they options that could possable be present for this nvidia card and uploads it to a server somewhere that holds these scripts or what ever. Now when another user wishes to install the binary driver for there same card they could download a gtk16:42
caraca1And when the user wishes to remove this driver they could run the same app and the driver will be uninstalled and the config options removed from there xorg file.16:44
caraca1Anyone have comments on this crazy idea any likes or dislikes?16:45
caraca1Am i just waisting my time or would the crux community like to see such a feature?16:45
tilmanit probably doesn't fit that well with crux' low-tech approach16:46
treachalso, not to rain on anyone's parade..16:47
treachbut every line of code written specifically for crux will need to be maintained etc.16:47
treachquestion is, is that a good idea.16:47
treachconsidering the project is already low on manpower etc.16:48
fumahow hard would it be to build crux with busybox as its base?16:48
caraca1Ahhh treach you mean these hardware config schemes would need to be maintained and updated by there creaters or someone with the same type of hardware.16:48
tilmanthe software, too16:49
treachcaraca1: no I speak in general terms.16:49
tilmancaraca1: btw, you didn't get through completely above16:50
treachas soon as anything fundamental changes there will probably be maintainence to do. Who will do that in the long run?16:50
caraca1Hmm i see you point16:50
tilman                     for there same card they could download a gtk16:50
caraca1same card they could download a gtk gui application that will parse this config scheme file and present the user with a walk threw that will download the nvidia binary driver and set there xorg config files based on the options that the user specifys.16:53
tilmanit really doesn't fit well with the crux philosophy ;D16:54
treachor mindset, or resources. :)16:55
caraca1I was under the impression that if i built some gui tools for crux then more people would use it and ubuntu would loose there distrowatch ranking.16:55
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treach:D16:55
jkrRemove all GUI apps from CRUX!16:55
guaquai have to put it blunt at this point. it's not a goal of crux.16:56
treachjkr: why? As long as we don't have to maintain them, I see no problem with gui apps.16:56
thrice`the reason most of us use cruxk in fact :)16:56
guaquathe crux of crux is keeping it simple16:56
treachwhat's that?16:56
guaqua"smart" scripts that do this, that and that are not keeping it simple, they are complicating and adding extra layers to the mix16:57
thrice`I wish I could pause bittorrent instead of quitting, to see how much of a file i've uploaded16:57
treachwhat are you using? Som mac-ified gui using version of rtorrent? :P16:57
thrice`:-)  bittorrent-curses, actually16:58
caraca1I was planing on building an allternative port like the  Contributed ISO images i didnt mean trying to merge these changes into the offical crux release lol :)16:58
thrice`(on crux)16:58
treachok :)16:58
treachcaraca1: If you decide to give it a try, there's nobody who neither will nor can stop you.16:59
treachwe're just telling you why we think it's a bad idea.16:59
jkrGood night16:59
treachsleep tight.16:59
caraca1Good night16:59
tilmannight16:59
caraca1i understand16:59
caraca1Im just practiceing my ruby and i couldnt think of anything other to build. :)17:00
guaquasome sort of stats from the pkg database might be fun tohave17:01
treachtilman: you don't have any more useful project for him? ;P17:01
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caraca1And i was thinking that a minimal crux system with a gui installer with xfce4 as the desktop and some nice gui apps would be a nice way to practice17:04
treach"Caracrux"?17:04
caraca1lol17:05
treachactually it sounds like some debian/ubuntu relationship :p17:11
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tilmandid he mean #crux, the temple of knowledge?17:12
treachheh, maybe. :p17:13
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caraca1i have uploaded 190 mb :)17:23
caraca1Wait #crux isn't a temple!!!! What the!!! Where am then???17:25
treach12.5 here...17:25
treachGB, that is. :P17:25
caraca1Yaa yaa what ever17:26
treachnot bragging, just noting people seem to be crazy about this release.17:26
caraca1Your proble in some eastern cool country like germany were everyone has T3 connections17:27
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tilmanhahah17:27
tilman"eastern country like germany"17:28
treachdepends on where you are..17:28
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tilmantreach: 20 *bragging*17:28
treachhehe17:28
tilmanyeah, cultural wise, yadda yadda17:29
treachcaraca1: were are you located?17:29
caraca1Where as here in the US you have eather dialup, dsl or cable and verizon want's to throw net nutrality out the window and charge me an extra fee to visit the crux website because the server isnt ran on a verizon services.17:29
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treachah.17:29
tilmano_O17:30
treachactually I think I'm counted as living up north rather than in the east, since I'm in sweden.17:30
prologic573M here :/17:30
treachgentlemen, we have hit the 300 downloads mark.17:31
caraca1US the country that declares war on another country for oil and power.17:31
prologicdownloaded 300 times17:31
prologic58 seeders17:31
prologicthink we underestimate the popularity of cruc :)17:31
prologicx17:31
treach300 dls in ~24 hours.17:32
treachnot too shabby.17:32
prologicextrapolate that17:32
prologicand we're gonna see huge dls :)17:32
jjpknot at all.17:32
caraca1Half the people in this country are stupid and crazy the other half are just crazy.17:32
treachok, so which one are you?17:33
treach;)17:33
caraca1Im the minority17:33
prologic1/2 + 1/2 = 1 :)17:34
prologiccan't be no minority :)17:34
treachnooo?17:34
* treach tries to count on his fingers.17:34
prologicyou didn't let me finish :)17:34
treachsorry I can't make it match. :(17:34
caraca1Im just a statistic i beleve that war is wrong & phone, tc cable & internet should be free17:34
prologicdo you have half a finger ? :)17:34
prologicwow ;)17:34
treachprologic: I think that's why it doesn't match. :P17:35
prologichaha17:35
caraca1medicare and socal security should be like canadas17:35
Tachohi am canadian, medicare isn't it's cut out to be17:35
Tachohisn't what it's*17:35
caraca1Ahh really17:35
nipuLaustralian medicare is much better17:35
Tachohthey don't cover much of anything anymore17:36
prologicI agree17:36
prologicaussie medicare is pretty good17:36
Tachohand the wait times are huge17:36
prologiccyas all17:36
prologicgot classes :)17:36
Tachohpeace17:36
caraca1so what does the general population in your countrys think of americans?17:36
Tachohi can't speak for everyone17:36
nipuLthere's a politician in australia proposing to roll out fibre to 98% of australian homes17:36
Tachohwe like you guys about as much as you like us17:37
nipuLthat would be sweet17:37
caraca1generaly17:37
treachstupid, crazy warmongers who should be allowed to vote. :P17:37
treacherr s should/shouldn't17:37
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TachohnipuL, fibre is impractical :O17:37
caraca1I wish i could move to canada but you guys wont let me in.17:37
Tachohcaraca1, it's cheaper to be a usa-ian. more work there too.17:38
caraca1Yahh what ever are you crazy17:38
caraca1india, mexico, china got all of our jobs17:38
treachwell, not the ones at walmart, mcdonalds. :/17:39
caraca1My wife has a masters in psychology and she works for a childrens services makeing $8 an hour17:40
caraca1My sister pays $1200.00 a month for a 1 room apartment17:41
Tachohcaraca1, :'(17:43
caraca1It sucks here anymore since bush bought his way into office. I like clinton much better i dont care what he did with his secutary ;)17:43
treachyikes17:43
treach(the rent, not the clinton stuff. :P )17:44
Tachohanyone here run kde on crux?17:45
Tachohif so, how's that working for you?17:45
thrice`i'm sure it runs like every other kde17:46
treachWell, it used to work pretty well while I was using it.17:46
treachalso, my brother hasn't filed any complaints yet. :)17:46
thrice`got your brother to use crux ?17:46
treachno. he volontered.17:47
treachhe got sick of kubuntu.17:47
thrice`that's awesome17:47
thrice`i'm pretty sure I'm one of extremely few at my tech univserity who have even considered using linux17:47
treachheh, I know a lot of people who use it.17:48
thrice`I wish I did17:48
treachgranted it's mostly students, but I get the feeling a lot of people here are getting sick of microsoft and their fucking attitude.17:48
Tachohdoubtful17:48
treachTachoh: this isn't the US.17:49
thrice`at colleg, it's tough.  I had the need for MS all my college career17:49
Tachohi am not an american17:49
thrice`(unless I wanted to drive to the labs)17:49
treachTachoh: oh, right, sorry.17:49
treachstill, I stand by the statement.17:50
Tachoh /shrug17:50
treachrunning MS software is getting to the point where it's more painful than useful.17:50
thrice`i'm trying to figure out if I can erase my ntfs partition and merge it into my reiser :)17:50
treachactivate this, register this, punch in this code, patch that etc, etc.17:50
treachservice pack 95, "oh it'll be fixed in the next version", "this version is the most stable and secure ever" and so on.17:52
treachpeople are beginning to see through it.17:52
Tachohtreach, i work for a software development company, we develop software for windows.17:52
Tachohit's pretty much standard practice17:53
treachso?17:53
treachI don't have to take it.17:53
Tachohof course not, i agree it sucks for all the parties involved17:53
caraca1I think windows will die off soon as the general population knows there is an allternative.17:53
Tachohbut that's how most companies i've seen operate17:53
treachyes, and that's why I see people jump ship.17:53
Tachohcaraca1, macos?17:54
treachdoesn't run on whiteboxes.17:54
caraca1Mac or Gnu/Linux, BSD, Solares17:54
Tachohsolaris is a joke17:55
Tachohwe all giggle at it17:55
treachwindows probably won't die until it collapses under it's own spaghetti code.17:56
Tachohpersonally, i don't think linux is the answer for the desktop. i do,however, think free software will eventually catch on.17:57
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treachbut more and more people will leave it, because they get sick of it, and linux, with all it's faults and limitations is "good enough"17:57
thrice`software-dependent17:58
thrice`I can't do my job without windows, for example17:58
fumawhat changes would I have to make in order to use a 2.4 kernel with CRUX 2.3?17:58
treachmess with glibc I imagine.17:58
thrice`glibc 2.5 doesn't allow 2.6, iirc17:58
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thrice`er, doesn't allow a 2.4 kernel17:58
treachthrice`: maybe you have to use windows, but most people really don't,17:59
fumaso would I be better off with CRUX 2.2?17:59
jjpk2.2 does not support a 2.4 kernel either.17:59
fumahmmm17:59
treachlike 90% of the people useing word are using it like some glorified typewriter.17:59
jjpkIts glibc is compiled with NPTL.17:59
thrice`I need windows for CAD software17:59
treachthrice`: CAD was created on UNIX iirc..18:00
jjpkYou have to downgrade glibc and make sure nptl is not enabled. Meaning you have to recompile everything ;)18:00
pTrSorry to bother you with such a question (but hey, I use CRUX :-) ): is there a system call to get the load of the system?18:00
treachpTr: top ?18:00
thrice`top18:00
jjpkuptime18:00
pTrthose are not really syscalls...18:00
fumajjpk, well this is for a class project so i was thinking about using uclibc to reduce size18:01
fumaor is the uclibc version of crux still online?18:01
treachpTr: ok, I thought the info was the important.18:01
caraca1I was wondering about solaris sun sent me a solaris 10 dvd and when i tried to test it i seen some boot messages and then it went into detecting and configureing my hardware and just froze up and that isstrange because evry peice of hardware i have is supported by the linux kernel.18:02
TachohpTr, sysinfo()?18:02
pTrTachoh: sysinfo()? Have to check...18:02
treachsolaris hw support is a joke.18:02
Tachohit will return load avgs and uptime iirc.18:02
Tachoh#include <sys/sysinfo.h>18:02
pTrbare with me :-)18:02
caraca1A joke when it froze it was detecting my ati rage 128 pro ultra (r128) !!!!!!!18:03
treachfuma: you should ask sip.18:03
fumasip?18:03
pTrI meant bear18:03
Tachoh:)18:04
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treachsimone. his mail should be some place at crux.nu18:04
treachbeer?18:04
aonbeer?!18:04
fumaok, ill try looking for it18:04
caraca1It would have been better if it would have been like "Dude what module does this card use"18:04
caraca1I hear good things about zfs18:05
treachme adds another homonym/semihomonyme to his list of funny mistakes.18:06
caraca1Or is that just sun trying to make it out to be more than what it is?18:06
Tachohso, how many of you guys are avdanced linux users?18:06
Tachohadvanced*18:06
Tachohlike the ad says18:06
treachwell, what's advanced?18:06
Tachoh"an independent, light-weight, i686-optimised Linux distribution designed for advanced Linux users"18:07
Tachohwhatever they mean by that18:07
aonif your life with it is constant struggle, you're not advanced enough18:07
caraca1If you use crux then your an advanced gnu/linux user18:07
aonnot necessarily18:07
Tachohthat's how it goes?18:08
treachif you don't know what you're doing you'll be in constant pain, and wear out the "g" "o" "l" and "e" keys.18:08
aonlego? :o18:08
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treachnope..18:08
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aon:D18:08
fumaGOOGLE18:08
aonSURPRISE SURPRISE!18:08
treachof course you could use msn as well,, :P18:08
fumaor gogle?18:08
fumabut i like lego better18:09
caraca1We live in an advanced civilization18:09
caraca1google sucks18:09
aonwhat if your name is Oleg, or you need to address a person with that name frequently?18:09
treachmsn search ftw?18:09
aon:D18:09
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caraca1Just say "Sup budddddyy"18:10
caraca1Like pauly shore18:11
caraca1msn search sucks to18:11
caraca1There is a lego search engine?18:12
Tachohi am looking to be an advanced linux user, hoping crux is going to help me out18:12
caraca1Tachoh: you want lfs18:13
treachTachoh: ok, I guess it will.18:13
treachor it will make you nuts.18:13
caraca1crux is way to easy18:13
fumaLFS is nice, but you have to dedicate some time to get it where you want it18:13
Tachohcaraca1, i ran though lfs 6.0 and the cvs.18:13
Tachohi am not nearly advanced enough though18:13
caraca1Then your advance18:14
Tachohno way18:14
caraca1Can you code?18:14
Tachohi work for a software development company, as a developer.18:14
Tachohso, i hope so18:14
thrice`heh18:14
caraca1What languages18:14
treachyou're over qualified. :P18:14
Tachohc, javascript, vbscript18:14
Tachohlearning perl on my own18:15
Tachohsql18:15
Tachohwem...php and html18:15
treachTachoh: advanced user is more somthing to keep the drooling ubuntu users out.18:15
Tachoherm*18:15
Tachohall the ubuntu users drool? or just some of them?18:15
caraca1Well then what you want is openbios or linuxbios18:15
treachI'm refering to people who can't manage without a point and click interface.18:15
Tachohlinuxbios? :O18:16
fumawait, THERES A POINT AND CLICK INTERFACE???18:16
caraca1http://linuxbios.org/Welcome_to_LinuxBIOS18:16
treachnot in crux.18:16
treachbut we do have a gui.18:16
treachit's called vim.18:16
Tachohok, i'll try linuxbios18:16
Tachohwhatever it takes to be advanced. y aknow.18:16
fumaoh man, had me worried there treach18:16
Tachohya*18:16
treach:)18:17
caraca1Now get a box up with linuxbios or openbios with crux and in my book your advanced18:17
Tachohmy advanced?18:17
Tachohi am just kidding. i'm off to try the new release of crux.18:18
Tachoh:D18:18
Tachoh*vanish!*18:18
fumai just installed 2.3 earlier today. still working on getting it up and running18:19
caraca1And learn ruby while your at it so you can get the gstreamer ruby libs and gtkmozembed working with firefox current and ill call you a god and tell my grand children about you in tails and fables18:19
fumaprobably going to get home and have one of my main machines do all the compiling for me18:19
caraca1fuma what are you doing that is takeing so long to install crux 2.3 and getting it up and running18:20
caraca1Building kde or gnome?18:20
fumawell, the base is ready18:21
fumanow working on kde18:21
caraca1Ahh thats why18:21
fumaeverything else i need is done18:21
fumawell, i cant say its done. there is 1 more thing i have to work out with startup18:22
caraca1Tachoh likes #geeksex18:22
caraca1Have you ever tried hotplug-perl?18:22
Tachohcaraca1, sure do18:22
fumai get a Superblock last mount time is in the future. FIXED message18:22
Tachohby the way, don't have sex while scuba diving. apparently it can make your girl explode.18:23
caraca1I wish my wife liked #geeksex but she gets mad when i bring my laptop to bed.18:23
fumaand when starting dropbear, it sits there for a very long time like its stuck18:23
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fumaoh well. ill have to figure this one out when I get home18:27
fumasee ya guys later18:28
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thrice`anyone else use cmus and rxvt-unicode ?18:46
caraca1339 mb upload18:47
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treachnow we're subject to study. o.O19:09
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_mavrick61Any Core member still up and hacking...19:27
blizzwasnt there a script to find files in / which are not in the package database?19:29
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treachblizz: you mean orphans?19:35
blizzno, files in general19:42
blizzit should for example detect user-added stuff in /var/www, but i would grep that out19:42
treachah..19:42
treachhm. I think there is some tool for that, but I'm too tired to think straight.19:43
treachI think I've used it.19:43
blizzi cant remember it either :D19:43
treachyou mean stuff that isn't owned by a package, right.19:43
blizzaye19:43
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treachtilman: I think "oldfiles" was what you were looking for before.19:50
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* jflash slaps prologic around a bit with a large trout20:52
jflashwake up, sprinter!20:53
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