IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2007-04-01

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onestephmm, ArchLinux is now renamed to Ark Linux04:05
onestepnew logo is horrible04:06
onestep:)04:06
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_Mhi05:35
jjpkhi05:38
_Mdo you know why the sources files from port are not stored with the port itself ?05:40
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jjpk_M: do you mean the program source code?05:44
_Myes, if the port must have all needed for building the package, why does the source code itself is not stored together with the port ?05:48
jjpkWell, many ports have source files that are several MB in size.05:48
jjpkIt would take too long to download an entire port collection, and it wastes crux's limited resources.05:49
_Mbut, so it will solve the problem of  source code removed from it expected place05:50
guaquacould you rephrase that question, please?05:51
_Mguaqua, sorry for my bad english :(05:51
guaquano problem05:52
guaquabut the reason really is that there's no need to bundle the sources with the ports05:52
guaquaports are sort of recipes05:52
_Mand, why dont we include all needed in the recipe ?05:54
jjpkIt makes one port too large, many applications have sources that are several MB in size.05:55
tilmancooking books don't come with meat and eggs either05:55
guaquait brings up the problem of distributing05:55
jjpkSecond, crux probably does have resources to host that much, and it would consume TOO much bandwidth.05:55
_Mjjpg point to a matter of space and surely time too05:55
guaquaand what is the difference between a port packed into a tar.gz with it's sources and simple Pkgfile, in practice?05:55
jjpkThen there would be further burden on maintainers.05:55
tilmanguaqua: occasional sf breakage05:56
tilman:D05:56
jjpksourceforge's round robin sucks anyway.05:56
_Myes, I agree with all of them, but including all source file would do more "robust" the ports system05:56
aon_occasional_?05:56
jjpkor should I say, their mirrors suck because they are not always in sync.05:56
tilmanaon: okay, maybe i don't use enough ports that grab files from sourceforge05:57
aon:D05:57
tilmanthank god sf isn't as popular as it used to be in 200205:57
tilman:)05:57
aonindeed05:57
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_Msurely, most of us have tried to build a package and discovered that source code was unavailabe, so you need to digg a littel and find out where the source code is, modify the Pkgfile and start again.06:01
guaquait is a price to pay06:02
guaquabut then again, if you want an easy way of doing things, you might also consider another distribution06:02
_Mno!!!, i love crux because it is easy06:03
_Mit is simple, you know06:03
guaquait is06:03
guaquano added sugar to masquerade the real basics06:03
tilmanthe sf crap can be somewhat worked around by telling glibc to resolve dl.sf.net to heanet.dl.sf.net eg06:03
tilman(heanet is pretty reliable)06:04
aonyep06:04
guaquai have kent.dl.sf.net in hosts06:04
onesteptilman: right06:04
_Mbut from my point of view, this could do it easier06:04
* onestep uses heanet in most cases06:04
tilmanthere's NO WAY we'll ever include the source tarballs in the ports tree06:04
tilmanthat's just nuts :)06:05
aonbeech[~]$ host $(fgrep dl.sf.net /etc/hosts|awk '{print $1}')06:05
aon66.193.1.193.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer heanet.dl.sourceforge.net.06:05
tilman"ports -u" would take ages06:05
jjpkThat is what I said earlier.06:05
guaquapkgsrc provides you with sources06:05
aonnobody does that nowadays anyway06:05
jjpkSimply ridiculous doing so.06:05
tilmanjjpk: yeah, but maybe he's raman06:05
aonhmm, or do the rpm distros?06:05
tilmandpkg does it06:05
jjpkrpm = binary in most cases.06:06
guaquadpkg does it if you enable the sources packages06:06
aonyeah, there every user doesn't have the source tree06:06
tilmanbut we should only compare crux to bsd/portage, no? ;)06:06
tilmanguaqua: yep, that's what i mean06:06
tilmanhttp://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/04/01/0630203.shtml06:07
tilmanoops, its april 1st06:07
tilmanhttp://slashdot.org/articles/07/03/31/2328233.shtml06:11
tilmanhahaha06:11
tilman"[...] San Serrife, a small republic located in the Indian Ocean consisting of several semicolon-shaped islands."06:11
guaqua:D06:12
_Mone more question: (I dont want disturb you)06:16
tilmanfeel free to ask06:17
_Mwhy crux dont hasoffer a repository of binary packages06:17
_Mwhy crux dont has a repository of binary packages06:17
guaquathere is no central one06:17
_Mmy english is horrible06:17
guaquasome people do offer their packages06:18
tilmanimo distributing binaries only makes sense in a few cases06:18
jjpkCrux is about changing options in ports to suit your needs.06:18
guaquabut the crux of the problem lies in the whole source-basedness of the whole distro06:18
tilmanlike, huge ass packages like firefox or openoffice06:18
jjpkBinary packages only have certain options enabled, sometimes you have to recompile them anyway. Or provide several binaries for one program.06:18
tilmanwhat pissed me off about debian was it forced me to get a ssl-version of this or that package, even though i didn't use the ssl feature at all06:18
tilman(stupid example, but the only one i remember) :P06:19
_Mtilman, yes I agree with you, but even with no so big packages it has meaning too06:19
tilmani guess the majority of crux users disagree06:20
tilman;)06:20
_Mhow many packages are built with other options than specified in Pkgfile ?06:20
aonheh, gmail has a 1.4. joke too06:20
tilman_M: lots :)06:20
tilman_M: really, if that's what you don't like about crux, maybe you should check out slackware06:20
_Mtilman, lots?06:21
tilman"many"06:21
_Mtilman, I disagree with you !!06:21
tilmanokay06:22
guaquai have maybe 10 modified ports06:22
guaquaand then another 10 from other people's repos06:22
_Mhow many packages in core, opt and contrib crux has ?06:22
guaquado grep06:23
aon$ find . -name Pkgfile|wc -l06:23
aon107706:23
_Mand, how many of it do you need to modify to adjust your needs ?06:23
aoncore, contrib, opt, xorg06:23
tilman_M: many ports have "optional dependencies"06:24
tilmanwhich means, support for package foo will be included if you have foo06:24
tilmanif you don't have it, it's left out06:24
tilmanso modifying a port manually isn't the only case where you end up with a different binary package06:24
aoni've made an iso once with sources for all core, opt and unmaintained (which supposedly was a lot less than that) and it was quite tedious06:24
aoni certainly don't want sources on my tree06:24
guaquadunno how arch does it06:25
guaquait has binary repos, and is also derived from crux06:25
aonbut the PKGBUILDs dont ship with sources afaik06:25
guaquaguess so06:25
_Mtilman, what do you mean with support?06:25
guaquagentoo has it's own source mirrors06:25
guaquaand it solves some problems06:26
jjpkEven in gentoo you do not download every source, you only download the sources you need to install something.06:28
guaquayes06:28
guaquaand that, in my opinion, is smart06:28
jjpkThat is no different in Crux.06:29
guaquano, but the fact that they have their own mirrors, they can track the source files easier06:29
_Mthis is the idea, have our own repository of source code as an alternative way of getting the source code if it is not in its place06:29
guaquabtw, do we have a script that does the source archive checking?06:29
_Mso, the source will always be available for build the package06:30
_Maon, In my case, I tried to build the iso from sources and many packages were not build because source was no available, I had to get them from cd and put them into the rigth place06:34
_Mso I finish the iso image06:34
guaquathere is an option in pkgmk.conf (or somewhere) that lets you put all sources into one single dir06:35
_Mtilman, I'm very happy with crux, I dont want slack :)06:38
aon_M: can't you use google to find the missing source tarballs?06:41
rawhttp://www.archlinux.org/06:43
rawhttp://www.arklinux.org/06:44
_Mis there another option? :)06:44
rawSo, arklinux is known as archlinux now, so that noone confuses them with arklinux...or is it archlinux?06:46
tilmanrofl06:47
aonheh :)06:48
_Mrofl?06:49
tilmanrolling over the floor laughing06:49
aonor 'on'06:49
tilmanan internet speak acronym that rose to popularity in the 90s06:49
rawlate 90'06:50
aonhttp://www.google.com/trends?q=rofl06:51
rawI wonder what happend around mai 2005 ;)06:51
raws/mai/may/06:52
rawhttp://www.google.com/trends?q=rofl%2C+lol&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all06:52
rawcompared to lol, rofl has no chance06:52
_Mtilman, I dont understand the expression (sorry my english is not good enough)06:53
tilmantsk06:53
aonthis is quite alarming, too: http://www.google.com/trends?q=goatse&date=all&geo=all&ctab=1&sa=N06:53
rawaon: the days of goatse are over06:54
aonbut look at the top regions06:54
guaquadays of goatse06:55
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onestephttp://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html - nice tutorial :)07:42
raw507:42
rawthat kiddos is why using esc for meta sucks.07:42
tilmanonestep: seen that too, recently. very o_O07:46
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aoni can make a non-working binary quite small, too ;)08:19
aonhm, didn't become that small. oh wel..08:19
aon+l08:19
rawwell, I can make a non-working binary with a size of zero bytes08:21
raw08:21
rawthere08:21
rawdoesn't work though, maybe I rearrange the code a bit08:21
aonyeah08:22
rawhmm isn't whitespace 4 chars big?08:22
raws/chars/bytes/08:23
rawand that would be bits08:24
tilmandid anyone paste the google tisp link yet?08:28
RomsterO_o08:29
* Romster is reading08:29
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Romsterargh i missed him again...08:35
Romsterdarn it...08:35
* tilman fell for another april fools joke08:50
rawhttp://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/lebedev.shtml08:50
tilman"[...] antique persuasion device used by Soviet-era KGB [..]"08:52
tilman:D08:52
rawin soviet russia device persuases you!08:53
tilman:)08:54
aon:D08:55
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rawhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6507189.stm09:14
rawcool, she's using a thinkpad09:14
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Romsterhmm why not a firefox extension?09:25
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pam2Howdy all09:45
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jjpkhello good bye :D09:47
deus_exhttp://tinyurl.com/2bujmg09:49
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RyoShttp://www.iobsd.org/10:36
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tilmani don't get that10:39
tilmanare they making fun of openbsd?10:40
Romsterhttp://techfreep.com/intel-80-cores-by-2011.htm10:44
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tillbhello everybody11:55
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deus_exjdolan: Do you still maintain opt/jack port? I updated it to 0.103.0, do you want a diff?12:18
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tilmantreach: thanks15:46
treachnp15:46
tilmanwonder whether that's intentional15:49
treachno idea.15:51
treachgreat.. did I miss something here..?15:51
treachcairo depends on poppler for pdf drawing...15:51
treachhowever, poppler depends on cairo..15:51
tilmano_____O15:54
tilmani just checked, seems you're right15:54
treachinsane.15:55
jjpkStill fighting with epdfview?15:55
guaqua:D15:55
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guaquatreach: catch 22? :D15:55
treachnah.15:55
treachbuild cairo first, build poppler, and then rebuild cairo again, I guess.15:56
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_Mhi15:58
treachyo15:59
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treachViper_: you've got an md5sum error on that zsh-lovers.1 thingy.17:45
Viper_will check it, thanks treach17:46
treachyou're welcome17:47
Viper_perhaps it has been updated :)17:47
treachwho, knows, or maybe it's just another april joke. :P17:48
Viper_haha yeah ;)17:48
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Viper_ok updated md5sum17:54
treachnice.17:54
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Romstercairo and poppler have a circular dependency?21:03
jaegernot that I'm seeing21:15
Romstertrenach said it earler. i hadn't looked yet21:19
Romsteris it just me or is there ment to be missing files out of libpcre21:20
jaegerdunno, I don't use libpcre21:21
Romsterhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/3907221:21
Romstercare to test? it only relies on zip21:21
Romsternot sure if this is right or not... i could be missing a dependency thats not listed?21:22
jaegeralright, I'll give it a shot21:24
jaegerbuilt normally here21:25
Romsterno footprint mismatch?21:27
Romsterhmm maybe i have something borked better check with revdep21:27
jaegernope21:29
j^2hey all22:47
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