IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2007-04-11

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pitillogood morning00:54
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sepenmorning all02:12
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sepenplease op me!03:39
Romsterpress ALT+F4 to get ops03:49
Romsteri so did told some noobs that and they came back to abuse me hehe03:50
namenloshm, is anyone here familliar with vim?03:54
namenlosgot a problem:, but the files won't be read...03:54
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namenlosworks now...04:29
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sepenI can't see opers x|04:29
sepenIm problems with my irc client ...04:31
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sepennow xD04:33
sepenwhat about jue unmaintained ports?04:37
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Romstersepen, take up what jue tossed out if you use them..05:31
sepentoo many ports for the same person05:32
Romstertoo many? ow many is too many? see how many i'm using now. is that too many?05:33
Romsteri think too many is yhafri05:34
Romsterhe dosn't maintain them all.05:34
Romsteri use ck4up to keep on top of new updates.05:34
Romsternow i'm gonna cook dinenr i'm hungery :P05:35
jjpkYou missed the other one...05:35
sepenyhafri ports really are unmaintained xD05:36
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larrythecowhi crux users05:58
larrythecowI just recently stumbled upon crux and through browsing some stuff decided: 1. that penguin is awesome. 2. handbook is awesome.05:58
larrythecowI want to know more about the package manager though05:59
larrythecowhow many packages do you have?05:59
larrythecowbecause gentoo has lotttttttttsssssssss06:00
larrythecowand I can't live without lots06:00
larrythecowsince crux looks so small community wise06:00
RedShiftimho, crux is not the right choice for you then06:00
larrythecowohh.. I found the "ports" page06:01
pitillowhy not? if there is not a port... make it :) larrythecow take a look to the webpage, you will find info and the supported ports06:01
larrythecowwell how come you don't mind having lots? it just happens to have what you want?06:01
larrythecowyeah well I'm not too fond of compiling by myself but if I get crux then I shall contribute to this tiny collection of ports06:02
jjpkNot fond of compiling? then why are you using gentoo to begin with? o_o06:03
larrythecowwhy do the repo's have such weird names?06:03
rehabdollsuch as?06:03
larrythecowjjpk: because portage compiles for me ;)06:03
rehabdollthose are all community ports06:04
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rehabdollprobably cause its the authors name/handle06:04
larrythecowI think they should be organised as "games" "office" etc. but that is just me.06:04
rehabdollwell not all my ports are that specific06:05
rehabdollits just apps i use06:05
larrythecowI'm impressed with the look of this little OS.06:06
larrythecowis there a ports search feature?06:07
RedShiftlarrythecow: prt-get can search06:07
RedShiftor just use
larrythecowthat is the graphical frontend is it?06:07
RedShift ;-)06:07
RedShiftlarrythecow: no prt-get is a CLI tool06:07
rehabdollthere are no graphical frontends :)06:07
larrythecowbetter read the handbook again06:08
larrythecowmust have misread06:08
rehabdollcrux is basically lfs with a packagemanager06:08
larrythecowwhat is K.I.S.S?06:08
rehabdollkeep it simple, stupid :)06:08
roberthThere exists GUI frontends for prt-get06:08
larrythecowoh yeah, gentoo base tarball unpacked into a linux filesystem with portage and a bootloader is basically lfs with a packagemanager06:09
larrythecowcrux looks nice06:09
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larrythecowI wants it.06:09
rehabdollwell gentoos packagemanager is a bit more intrusive, no?06:09
roberthlucky you ... Crux is free06:10
larrythecowrehabdoll: when you say intrusive, you mean ________06:10
larrythecowhoorah! crux is free :)06:10
larrythecowhang on... what is the iso file for if I build the OS myself?06:11
jjpk1) you don't build the os yourself 2) the iso contains binary packages of necessary software.06:12
larrythecowohh yes I see.06:12
larrythecowI only skimmed through the handbook06:12
larrythecowit says "type setup to start the package installation script"06:13
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larrythecowso then I choose gnu utils and xorg and nvidia drivers and xfce and whatever06:13
larrythecowthen I configure kernel, choosing modules and things and adding them to default runlevel until I am satisfied06:14
larrythecowand then all is well?06:14
larrythecowwait a minute.. what is this upgrading with a cd?06:15
larrythecowyou mean.. I can't do an emerge world equivalent? :O06:15
larrythecowoh noes!1!1!oenthousendndelelvin11!!1!!06:15
jjpkYou could, just not worth the time it takes.06:16
larrythecowoh okay06:16
larrythecowwell just with some OSs upgrading with cd is hell06:16
larrythecowbecause it breaks stuff06:16
larrythecowsuch as.. come to think of it.. pretty much every OS06:17
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larrythecowalright, I have decided I will get crux someday06:22
larrythecowbut not today06:22
larrythecowhang on... is there a ports browsing feature?06:22
larrythecowby category06:23
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treachnot really. prt-get has a "dsearch"06:26
larrythecowwhat is "dsearch"?06:26
treachsearch on descriptions. there was plans for adding classifying metadata but cptn quit.06:27
rxiwhat happened to detailed search in
rxitreach: btw what happened to cptn .. havnt seen him around in ages06:27
treachrxi: he pops up now and then.06:28
jjpkrxi: cptn is too busy with work from what I heard to be committed to crux.06:28
treachhe was in devel 5 days ago.06:29
rxii noticed he still posts to the ml06:29
larrythecowcrux looks like a winner :)06:29
larrythecowcan't wait to get it06:29
larrythecowthanks guys06:29
treachcrux is a love it or hate it dist.06:29
treacheither you don't get it, and drop it like hot potato.06:30
jjpkcrux is hard to explain unless you install it and use it.06:30
treachor you'll find that all other dists suck after using it. :)06:30
treach<- long time addict. :P06:31
larrythecowthat is much like gentoo06:31
larrythecowcrux looks much like gentoo06:31
larrythecowbut gentoo is BIG06:31
larrythecowand crux is small06:31
rxithat will get you no where in here06:31
treachthrow salt on him!06:31
larrythecowah.. why? :|06:31
larrythecowyou don't like gentoo?06:32
treachthey are not the same at all.06:32
jjpkcrux was modeled after bsd and other unices, not gentoo.06:32
treachthe *only* thing they have in common is that they are source based.06:32
larrythecowgentoo was modeled after bsd in that it has bsd initscripts too!06:32
larrythecowand they both have cool manuals and use linux kernel and are community based06:33
treachgentoo is infinitely more complicated than crux.06:33
treachyou could call gentoo anything, but not KISS.06:33
larrythecowthat would mean crux has no complication? :P06:33
treachit's about as complicated as a shovel.06:33
treachor a club.06:33
larrythecowI should hope more advanced.06:34
jjpkIt works if you know how to use it. ;)06:34
larrythecowhey, I installed freebsd and gentoo fine.06:34
larrythecowcrux shouldn't be too hard to learn.06:34
treachlarrythecow: the more advanced things are, the more prone they are to break.06:34
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treachand the more maintaince you have to put into the distro.06:35
larrythecowbut gentoo is lucky because it just happens to be so well maintained.06:35
treachwell, crux is well maintained too imo, but it has infinitely less resources.06:35
larrythecowI think it is because to use gentoo you have to pass a knowledge test I guess (installing it)06:35
larrythecowso there are no absolute noobs ruining everything06:35
larrythecowit seems same with crux :D06:36
treachwell, newbies tend to tire rather quickly.06:36
larrythecowyeah. I remember when I first tried gentoo and I gave up when I couldn't work out how to configure xorg.06:36
treachbut that said, there are newbies who jumped right into it and use it iirc.06:37
larrythecow.. later when I learned linux I tried again and everything worked smooth06:37
larrythecowI'm still a linux newbie but I understand enough06:37
larrythecowtreach: really? either they are smart or damn lucky not running into troubles06:37
treachcrux is newbie friendly in it's own way, because it has very little confusing fluff.06:37
larrythecowheh I guess that makes sense06:38
treachsmart, reads docs, etc.06:38
treachyou never get into such fights with prt-get as you can do with portagee or the debian package management.06:38
treachwith crux, *you* are in the driver seat for good or ill.06:39
rximostly ill :P06:39
treachwhat do you do when apt fucks your system over...?06:40
rxiformat and pray?06:41
pitilloummmm noticed that only with testing/sid... and sometimes is very hard. With stable, I hard to break your system.06:41
larrythecowcommit suicide for being a debian user in the first place06:41
pitillopfff... may be better if I dont type :D06:41
larrythecow.. you use debian?06:42
treachpitillo: still happens, and anyway, stable is usually so old anyway it's hardly useable for anything but servers.06:42
sepenpitillo, openbsd instead debian packages!06:43
pitillotreach, true, but you see my point. Keep your system in the bleeding edge is hard. (testing/sid)06:43
treachtesting is usually not particulary bleeding edge.06:43
pitillotreach, in the middle way of stable and sid.... not at all with the lastest software, but newer than stable.06:44
treachhehe, anything that isn't newer than stable?06:44
treachI remember *trying* to use stable for something, just a few years back. Browser - Mozilla 1.0...06:45
larrythecowlegacy is good though. I have a monochrome display 4mb 33mhz laptop06:46
larrythecowand I am going to put slackware 3.3 on it06:46
larrythecowso legacy saves the day06:46
treachlarrythecow: only when it's good enough.06:46
treachand *Mozilla* 1.0, isn't good enough..06:46
larrythecowactually.. I'm not a fan of slockware06:47
pitillotreach, I used stable for a server, never tried it for desktop usage. In my desktop computer... sid. Finally got tired. Moved from sarge to obsd and sid to crux :)06:47
larrythecowmozilla 1.0 wouldn't run on my laptop I don't think06:47
larrythecowI don't like slackware..06:47
treachI used slack in the past, it was nice enough. No ports though. :=06:47
larrythecowany chance of crux running on 4mb 33mhz 16shade greyscale with 50mb HD?06:47
treachs =/)06:47
rxilarrythecow: sure06:48
larrythecowslackwares package scripts are of poor quality06:48
treachif you stripp it enough, why not.06:48
larrythecowreckon I could get flux working on it?06:48
treachbut I guess you'd have to do a loooot of work..06:48
rxixorg needs alot of space06:48
larrythecowso no gui at all?06:48
treachtinyx or some old xfree maybe06:49
larrythecowbut.. people run a gui on dslinux.. and nintendo ds's only have mb of ram and a 16mb sd card...06:49
Romsterthat penguin is awesome < lol06:49
larrythecowtinyx hmm06:49
treachlarrythecow: you're probably better off with some old distro for that computer.06:50
treachtrying to fit a modern distro, even such a modest one as crux on it will probably be painful, even if it's possible.06:51
rxiucrux maybe?06:51
larrythecowucrux.. what is that?06:51
treachinstead of glibc06:51
larrythecowoh okay06:52
Romsterucrux O_o06:53
larrythecowwell I wanted slackware because it has been around pretty much since linux06:54
larrythecowand it can install on i486's06:54
larrythecowbut I can't find any info on old slackwares06:54
rxiprobably have to look on some mirrors06:55
Romsterwe had a i586 crux cd, and a i486 one too06:55
larrythecowI'd like to see crux for amd6406:56
Romsteri on'y got 1 486 here and its got ms-dos on it.06:56
larrythecowmake use of an extra 32bit :P06:56
Romsterthats in the works06:56
jjpkThat channel is not listed on the site, maybe it should be.06:57
jjpkor are you by chance keeping it low key for now?06:58
treachheh, it's not exactly flooded. :P06:59
Romsternot ready yet i dunno nipuL is doing all the work so far i think07:00
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rxiRomster: should fire up crux 2.1 i486 :P07:08
Romsternot really worth it..07:11
Romsterbe only goof for ircing07:11
rxior if you have a boat ...07:11
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Romsterboat, what would i use a 486 in a boat for it wouldn't even make a good anchor07:12
rximight be ok for a rubbie duckie :P07:12
Romsterwell maybe if i filled it with heaps of dud hdd's07:12
Romsterdunno what i'll do witht he 233MHz pc even..07:13
Romsteri should put my 450MHz k6II to use though.07:13
rxiyeah i chucked everything i had that was =>p207:13
Romsterbut its a pain having to use a i586 on it when all my other stuff is i68607:13
rxibin it :)07:14
Romsteri've only got the 486 dx4 120MHz overdrive pc for a ms-dos games pc, has a 1mb vga card and a sb16 :D07:14
Romsteri even have a vwersion 1.5 sound blaster 8 bit card here second one they ever made?07:15
Romsterv1 v1.5 and v2 then they made the sb1607:16
rxiRomster: the one that like the size of most modern motherboards?07:16
Romsterno its quite small isa slot07:16
Romsteri dont' have any of them vesa slot cards there the long buggers07:17
Romstervesa was a extension to isa before they went to pci07:17
rxiyeah that was just before my time07:17
rxihey Romster check your description for pygstreamer07:21
rxierr url rather07:21
Romsteromg lol07:23
rxihehe yes07:23
rxiyou defecting or something :P07:23
treachi486 is fine, if you've got enough ram and don't plan on running anything heavier than vim or an ftpserver on it.07:25
treachyes it's old.07:27
Romsteroh i oftern used the kopete Pkgfile as a template and edit it for now packages.07:28
treach'How you try crux in 1 1/2 hour and write a "review" in the meantime.'07:28
Romsterand i must of missed the URL.07:28
RomsterThe install process was pretty tedious. < hah i find it simple now that i've done it a few times.07:33
treachwell, it *is* boring, but OTOH, it's just not worth it to create some fancy installer.07:37
treachIt'd just be a waste of time IMO.07:37
rxithats why i get the compile of the kernel going while im configuring thingds .. saves time :)07:37
RomsterIt does include a decent handbook (nothing quite on the level of the FreeBSD handbook)  < wtf...07:38
Romsterrxi, thatsa good idea07:38
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jjpkFreeBSD's handbook is much more extensive, but I have heard a few users say otherwise.07:47
jjpkThen again, they may have meant that the fbsd handbook just has BASICS, not the advanced tunings they were after.07:47
rawtreach: I've never seen a installation process wich is not boring07:48
Romsteri've not looked at it, personally.07:48
rxicaldera openlinux 2.2 used to have tetris07:48
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rawhow incredibly not boring07:48
Romsterraw, its not boring the first few times then it is when you try to set a new speed recorld for installation :P07:49
Romsteri saw a tetris for fsck O_o on freashmeat07:49
rawmy debugger supports hangman!07:50
jjpkWhat could be more exciting than watching kernel messages for errors :D07:52
jjpkEven the anticipation is just zomg! :D07:53
jaegerI get the impression that in general people cannot separate linux distributions in their minds07:54
jaegerthere's some preconceived notion that they must all be "like" another one to be good07:55
Romsterraw, cool07:55
rawyeah, but the same time, each time they install another distripution they hope to find something completely different07:55
jjpkjaeger: indeed, especially with the GUI install + eye candy for xorg mania.07:56
jaegerI think the differences between distributions are the best reasons to try them all :) see which you like on your own07:56
rawso they end up thinking 'well, that is neither completely new and exciting nor do my skills work with this one anymore'07:56
jaegerI have zero preference as far as gui installers, I can install crux and fedora just as easily... but I don't expect them to be exactly the same when I'm done07:56
jaegerI do expect that either one could be made to do exactly the same jobs with work, though07:57
Romsterthey all use the linux kernel they each could have there own init system, msot have the same packages for the base system too.07:57
Romsteri got a few ideas like instead of installing packages you drop the .gz file in a directory and its on the system as needed.07:58
Romstermore of a zomg dynamic pachakes that load when needed :P07:58
Romsterand err i so need to relearn my typing07:59
rxinah just get a dvorak :P07:59
Romsteri like simple and to the point.07:59
Romsterheh maybe thats it07:59
jjpkYou could try slowing your typing down, see if that helps.07:59
Romsteri'm used to a qwerty but by the way my typing has degreaded i'dd probbly be better on another type08:00
Romsteryeah might help08:00
jjpkWould be interesting to learn typing on a dvorak keymap.08:00
Romstercrux is simple and can be turned into what ever system you want to use it for so i like it.08:01
jjpkAlthough it would be problem because it does not have some additional characters needed for typing Finnish.08:01
rxijjpk: yeah but unless you can use dvorak all the time its a pain in the arse08:01
treachjaeger: I think the common theme is that it has to "be like windows" to be good.08:01
jaegerI'm able to separate that as well, hehe08:02
jjpkrxi: that too, it probably messes with your head and hands quite a bit.08:02
treachif it's not gui blah blah, it's the same as "it's old" and "not good".08:02
treachjaeger: Yeah, I know you can separate it, I'm talking about the "post win95" generation.08:03
jjpkI see a parallel between "modern" OS's and movies, no content and all effects.08:04
jjpk"I don't want to use my brain, but I want it to be pretty"08:04
* treach laughs heartlessly every time some windows user comes whining about his cross linked registry files.08:04
jjpktreach: you insensitive bigot! :( :D08:05
rxitreach: hehe the windows registry isnt too bad once you become one with your inner registry08:05
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jjpktreach: you discriminate against windows users, that's why I said bigot.08:06
treachjjpk: I'll laugh at linux users as soon as you give them a couple of registry files to crosslink...08:06
treachrxi: the registery is probably *THE* singel biggest mistake MS ever did.08:07
rxiwhen its used properly its ok08:08
treachno, it isn't, because it rots.08:08
rxisure its pretty bad when you get viruses, malware, etc..08:08
treachviruses, malware etc doesn't have anything with the registery to do.08:09
treachheck, the only time I've ever had a virus was back when I was a DOS user. (junkie)08:10
Romsterwhen the registery goes poof you may aswell deleate the windows and programs directorys and start over..08:10
treachnuke from orbit.08:10
rxiive usually been able to repair/recover from registry errors08:10
Romsterdepends how bad they are.08:11
rxibut normally i do format if things become too messy but thats more than just the registry08:11
Romsterive had windows litearlly go poof half the filesystem gone in a instant.08:11
Romsterthen reinstall updates, reconfigure takes a few weeks to get it just right again08:11
Romsteroh yay system restore,restore the same bugs again..08:12
Romsterwhen i read abotu vista i decided to get away from winblows.08:13
* treach takes a deep breath, and shuts up.08:13
Romsteris it what i'm blabering about or my bad grammer?08:13
jjpkWindows is just too much to bear :p08:14
Romstersure :P08:14
Romsterand all the make windows faster utilites...08:14
Romsterits tottaly flawed and not very customiseable08:15
treachRomster: It wasn't your grammar, I just think I've wasted enough bits on vista.08:15
rxiwindows in general?08:15
* rxi wonders if linux has a readyboost version08:15
Romstertreach, ah08:16
Romstervista and DRM *quivers*08:16
treachrxi: yeah, linux is clearly not ready for the desktop as long as such an essential application is missing.08:16
rxitreach: huh?08:16
treach</sarcasm> ;)08:17
Romsterbut the more that goto linux the new prograsm for desktops get made.08:17
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rxireadyboost allows you to use flash storage as ram08:17
RyoSis there a good app that can draw graphes?08:17
Romsterugh i'm gonna make a coffee and stop typing like crap...08:17
treachrxi: can you spell "band-aid"? :P08:17
rxitreach: yeah my typing isnt as bad as Romster :P08:17
RyoSRomster: i mean, for mathematics08:18
treachRyoS: there are a whole bunch, like gnuplot08:18
Romsternot to mentain that usb drives have a limited write life time like cdrw's08:18
treachthere is something called "R" as well if you're serious.08:18
rxiRomster: more like sd/ms/xd cards rather than usb based stuff08:19
RomsterRyoS, ah some math formula, there is a app for that to print complex symvbools08:19
Romsterrxi, ah08:19
RyoStreach: thanks i check out gnuplot08:19
treachyou're welcome08:20
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rxilol another aussie08:23
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Romsteraussie invasion08:26
treachyeah, all 5(?) of you.08:28
rxithere used to be more im sure08:29
treachlooks like you've got some catching up to do, if you want to compete with the master of invasions. ;)08:29
rxilol the europeans or americans?08:29
treachZe Germans, of course. :P08:30
treachI think there are more german crux users than any other single nationality, but of course I might be wrong.08:30
treacheven though I get the feeling they are more than the rest combined, sometimes.08:31
rawtreach: according to this 'crux user map' we practically own crux08:44
rawis the map still available?08:44
treachno, i don't think so.08:45
rawaahh ;/08:45
treachor well, I think it's still available, but it's listed as "defunct" on cptn's site.08:45
Romsterno more crux map?08:46
rxiwhere is the permissions for devices stored these days? udev rules?08:47
Romsteryeah in udev08:48
Romsterwonder what i should mess with now...08:48
jaegerguess we could create a new crux user map08:48
rxiit probably needs updating anyway08:49
treachNo, we should all give up this complicated Linux shit, repent, format and install OS/208:49
rxitreach: lol what have you been smoking08:50
treachnothing. :D08:50
rxilol whatever it is i want some :P08:50
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kieselsteini_I installed CRUX 2.3 and I get an error when trying to open a xterm08:52
kieselsteini_xterm: Error 32, errno 2: No such file or directory08:52
kieselsteini_Reason: get_pty: not enough ptys08:52
rxitreach: i see what you mean ...08:53
kieselsteini_ /dev/ptmx is here and devpts is mounted on /dev/pts08:53
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treachkieselsteini_: did you enable unix98 pty's in your kernel?08:56
kieselsteini_treach: where can I activate that stuff....08:57
kieselsteini_I'm looking for that....08:57
kieselsteini_but I haven't found it yet...08:57
treachsearch for it then08:58
kieselsteini_where could it be?08:58
kieselsteini_character devices?!08:58
treachmake menuconfig && type "/"08:58
kieselsteini_cool I was not aware of a search feature in the menu.... :)09:00
treachwell. It's not exactly advertising it's presence.09:00
kieselsteini_ok thanks man...I'll try to fix that *g09:02
treachno problem.09:02
treachgood luck09:02
* j^2 waves09:04
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Romsteris it just me or is dead?10:01
Romsterhi _M10:04
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j^2Romster: looks like as dead as a door nail10:08
_Mwho is the owner of pkgutils ?10:10
j^2it was cptn back in the day iirc10:10
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Romsterj^2, just as i thought..10:33
Romsterbut wanted to make sure it wasn't something funky with my end.10:33
j^2cool cool10:36
Romstergee nothing new to update now :/10:38
Romsterdamn wish prologic got the shortcircuit network back up... i wan't my ports online,...10:38
j^ ;)10:38
Romsteri'm getting itchy to host them someware..10:39
Romsterj^2, intersting10:46
* Romster plays Dropkick Murphys - Blackout - 01 - Walk Away.mp310:46
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aonmmh, too much web programming12:29
aoni typed c =index at least five times in mutt12:29
aonthen i realized that it's inbox and not index12:29
tilmani sped up my website by a few hundred percent by using mod_magnet to do caching in lighty12:30
tilmani didn't know it was that slow before12:30
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deus_exOh, great.Opera segfaults.wth...14:59
tilmanmight be due to the recent libx11 security fix15:00
tilmanmaybe the latest opera update already has the patch included?15:00
treachI guess the fat lady finally was done with the singing. :>15:00
deus_extilman: You're right, Opera 9.20 works fine ( I updated the port, but forgot to actually update :)15:02
tilmancool :)15:02
deus_exIt's damn fast, I'm impressed :)15:03
treach..if they only could get something useful out of webkit + gtk. :/15:05
deus_exIt's my birthday today, btw, so feel free to drink to that ;)15:06
jaegerhappy birthday15:07
j^2hey happy bday deus_ex15:07
deus_exjaeger: Thanks :)15:07
deus_exj^2: Thank you :)15:08
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* j^2 raises a pint to deus_ex 15:09
* treach goto jaeger22_07:15:09
j^2(i really will later tonight ;))15:09
tilmandeus_ex: i don't have alcohol around, but happy birthday anyway :]15:09
treachDamned, if I had anything to drink, I'd already be drunk. :/15:10
tilmanstill fighting with floppies?15:10
treachtilman: no, I gave up, after getting 12 consecutively bad ones..15:10
deus_extilman: Thanks :)15:11
treachdeus_ex: you want them? I could probably ship them as a bday present. :P15:11
treachjust as long as I don't have to see them. >:|15:12
deus_extreach: Wait until it's  full moon and sacrifice them to Murphy? :)15:14
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