IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2007-05-08

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pitillogood morning01:10
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Romstermorning pitillo01:35
RomsternipuL, yeah thats a classic arn't it.01:35
pitillogood morning Romster01:59
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nipuLsome one smack him down already02:29
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namenlos25% of all my mails are from arnuld...04:27
pitillonamenlos, in only around 2 weeks04:27
nipuLi think i might give him a special rule of his own on my mailserver04:28
rximake a script to sign him up to lots of porn?04:29
pitillorxi, you are dangerous....04:29
nipuLi've done that before04:29
nipuLlet's all submit him to spamcop04:29
pitillo(I am scared to send another mail to the ML) xD04:30
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rxinipuL: hows the family?04:48
* nipuL heads asplode04:48
treachgah, he's persistant at least, you've got to give him that..04:49
rxiso are stalkers :P04:50
treach"You, sir, are not an experienced linux user. Please consider switching to ubuntu until you've grasped 'the BASICS', since it's well known Crux is missing those."04:53
treachTrying to fix problems by reinstalling.. over and over again, what a tool.04:54
nipuLthen he goes on to brag about how he knows more about "GNU" than some sucker on a tech support line...04:54
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rximust be that time of the year04:55
surroundergawd arnuld is cool05:03
surrounderwish I was him05:03
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pitilloawsome the ML.... xD06:34
jjpkEven more single all-caps words. SHOCKING06:35
rawI hate it that most of the ftps uplink is too small to handle my downstream06:39
jjpkNo surprise if you are leeching from home user broadband connections.06:40
rawna, ftp.freebsd.org06:40
rawaround 400 kb/s06:40
rawwell, it seems ftp2 has 2.5M/s at least06:41
jjpkUse a mirror, that probably is the master ftp so it will be overloaded.06:41
rawsee above06:42
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pitilloRomster, why do not you add all jumpnbump levels in one port?07:45
Romsterhmm should i?07:54
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Romsterthought it was the right way(tm) to package them up independently.07:54
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pitilloRomster, I did it with e-modules for example, but someone explains me to keep them together (I gave another reason to make them separately)07:58
pitilloRomster, not sure about it, only taking a look to them IMO can be together... but it is only a opinion.07:59
Romsterwell i could make a metaport to include all the levels08:02
Romsteras dependencys.08:02
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Romsterthat would cover both problems?08:03
pitilloummm sounds well. But may be waiting other replies to that Q can be good too. (mine was a little opinion)08:04
Romsteranyone else in here got an opinion i can't mail the ML as my isp is blacklsited and i can't get in contact with ____mavrick6108:06
namenlosyou mean about the changing of the handbook?08:09
pitillonamenlos, I think about what we are talking here08:11
pitillomake a port to add all separated ports08:11
Romsterpitillo's question of combining about 100 small level ports into 1 level port containing them all, i ahev single ports for each level, i sugested a meta port to contain them all as dependencys. whats the opinion on the best method.08:11
pitilloI think there is no reason to keep them separated....08:11
pitilloall levels ports I have seen are only dats...08:12
namenlosi would have suggested a metaport, too08:13
jjpkIn my opinion, metaports are not really crux tradition.08:14
Romsterbut still there got a common prefix name like xorg- has, so its not hard to do a list of just them ports into prt-get to intstall.08:15
jjpkYes I know xorg and gnome are such ports, but they are exceptions.08:15
pitillojjpk, that is true too, only for really big ports08:15
pitilloyeah, that exceptions :)08:15
jjpkPut them together, it makes more sense in my opinion.08:16
pitillofor me too... that is more crus philosophy than the metaport...08:18
pitilloarfarf s/crus/CRUX08:18
jjpkI might as well say e-modules is a difficult question as well.08:19
namenlosa little bit offtopic:
pitillojjpk, well I keep working ones alone... trying to build all modules (there are some wich never will compile) it is a waste of time08:21
pitillobut the CRUX way says to keep them together too.08:21
jjpkMaybe a kdebase style would work, only have the essential components needed for basic functions.08:22
jjpkThen add the rest as extra packages.08:22
jjpkWell, the way you explain how you package them sounds fine to me.08:22
pitillofor me too... btw it is only in a private repo... does not matter the way (but I prefer follow the crux way too)08:26
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Romsteras in my jumpnbump-level-* ports?
Romsterjumpnbump requires a level to be able to play but which is the question. should i change or leave as it is? Tough decision :/08:38
pitilloI think you must provide only one... (may be a default one) and the others topgether in other port08:39
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Romsterhrmm it is a interesting point. just wish i could post to the ML...08:47
jaegersurely when you try to post you get some response from the server at least?08:49
Romsteryeah replay that my message timed out..08:56
Romsternothing from to works :/08:56
Romsteras far as email goes.08:57
Romstertold to contact ____mavrick61 but he is never around.08:57
jaegerI was watching the mail log on the server, there was no connection... so guess you'll have to find charlie, and yes, I know that's tough sometimes08:57
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jjpkProbably means the ip range where the smtpd is located is shitlisted and dropped by a firewall.09:04
Romsteri can't even get ____mavrick61 whos charlie lol...09:04
jjpkSomewhat strange because jaeger cannot see a connection even attempted.09:06
Romsterjaeger, jsut emailed you the last attempt at sending a email to * if its any help.09:08
jaegerok, I'll take a look when it arrives09:10
Romsterwhat i gathered.09:10
j^2yeah for cptn telling arunld off!09:12
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Romsteri'll try sending something now..09:14
Romstersent one ot crux-contrib just now09:16
jaegerto which address did you send the one intended for me?09:17
jaeger@crux or mnet?09:18
clbjaeger: Error: "crux" is not a valid command.09:18
jaegerpipe down, clb09:18
Romsteri sent to crux-contrib@lists.crux.nu09:33
Romsterjaeger, oh i sent to your mnet09:34
jaegerstill haven't received it09:34
Romsteras i know the one to @crux would fail.09:34
j^2anyone play with boxed NAS(s) here?09:34
jaegerj^2: I've messed with freenas/opennas a bit but not dedicated hardware ones09:35
j^2yeah same here, i was asked to find a hardware raid 1tb one for work09:35
j^2looking for advice09:36
jaegerRomster: ok, received it finally09:38
Romsterodd i sent it awhile ago :(09:38
jaegerit got greylisted09:40
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jaegerhave you done a traceroute to that mx?09:43
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Romsterno, i'll do one if you like?09:46
jaegercan't hurt to try09:47
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Romsterjaeger, yeah stops at 15 (  369.632 ms  374.791 ms  381.424 ms10:02
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sepentilman here10:06
sepenI've a first version of portsearch (perl)10:07
sepentilman, svn:// (it's here)10:11
sepenI've some problems with my trac, sorry10:11
j^2better be!10:12
* j^2 gets hes shotgun10:12
sepenan example of usage10:13
sepenreal    0m5.512s10:13
tilmanany chance you can use p5-xml-parser instead of p5-xml-simple?10:13
sepenbetter than my other script using html tags10:13
tilmanthe former is a system dependency, so everyone has it10:13
j^2sepen: ohhh nice :D10:13
tilmanworks great though10:13
sepenwell, this it's only a half hour script10:13
tilmanthough you could format the output a bit nicer10:14
sepentilman, yeah of course10:14
sepenreally, Im a perl newbie xDDD10:14
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tilmansepen: can you also comment on task #175? so tillb can deploy the new script to the production site10:16
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* vektori clears his throat.10:18
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vektoriThanks jjpk. ;)10:19
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jjpkThat is why the /away command exists, use it.10:20
sepentilman, Im going to comment the task, sorry Im at work and many times I need to disconnect from the channel xDDD10:22
tilmanuse aon's boss.theme10:22
aoni wonder if i still have it somewhere10:23
tilmani do10:23
tilmanstill have it hooked up actually10:23
vektoriWhat's boss.theme like?10:24
aonoh, there it is10:24
tilmanit's not much fun to use10:24
vektoriHehe, that much I gathered. :)10:24
aonusing boss.theme now10:24
rawMY EYES10:26
aonalthough it's meant to run with less contrast and smaller font10:27
aonin a small borderless window10:27
* tilman gives aon a colorful wallpaper10:27
aonhow about xsetroot -fg red -bg purple -mod 20 2010:28
aoni got tears in my eyes from 20 seconds of looking at that10:29
aonor perhaps not even that much10:29
tilmanthat doesn't do anything for me10:29
tilmanbut i can imagine it looks funky10:29
j^2i hope arnuld likes my post :D10:41
jjpkThere goes another arnuld rant.10:42
j^2jjpk: :D i think cptn put him in his place :D10:42
jjpkWell, he is still posting at a record pace on the ml.10:43
jjpkI would not necessarily call that a success ;)10:43
j^2very true :D10:43
j^2i'm a hater...but is this guy indian? seriously....i'm starting to think hes... "crazy"10:44
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espogood evening10:45
j^2"EXACTLY my reasoon, you stole my personal property (my decision)  ;-)10:45
aondid he reply to your mail already?10:46
jjpkI don't exactly understand his reply to what I wrote o_o10:46
aonoh, it was in that earlier one10:46
j^2i dont think mines gone through yet10:47
* j^2 dies10:47
jjpkI will assume he is trying to say he has a brainfart.10:47
aonyour's here already10:47
j^2s/he has a brainfart/he is a douche10:47
jjpkHaha :D10:48
j^2ah he resspondede10:48
jjpkaon: something tells me the governator will not get his constituional amendment through.10:49
aonbut i like the 'arnuld' misspelling there10:49
jjpkNormally he is referred to ahnold, first time I see that spelling used.10:50
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aonj^2: wonder if he'll go bother lfs people now :)10:52
j^2aon: i hope and pray :D10:53
jjpkNah, probably too abstract and freeform for his taste :D10:54
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j^2hell it'll take him like a month to get lfs running :D10:56
j^23 weeks alone reading the "book"10:56
tilmanj^2: duh10:57
tilmanj^2: it's on his blog ;)10:57
j^2...sorry i havent cared enought to read it :P10:57
tilmani really tried to point him at the oops11:02
tilmanand he just didn't get it11:02
tilmanhow disappointing11:02
aonperhaps getting it isn't part of the way of excess11:02
tilmanFedora is applying the -- Windows philosophy of success -- (think11:06
tilmangui config things are the windows philosophy of success?11:06
vektoriWindows has a philosophy of success?11:07
aoni thought it was just stuffing your stuff down the throats of oem's11:07
tilmanmaybe "backwards compatibility"11:07
aonfedora has backwards compatibility in sysconfig11:07
jjpktilman: _proper_ kernel starting to haunt you already11:08
aoni've been able to sed -i 's:UTF-8:ISO-8859-1:g' /etc/sysconfig/i18n ever since i started using rh11:08
tilmanjjpk: no. :p11:08
aonalthough hmm11:08
vektoriWhat's wrong with UTF-8?11:08
tilmanwhat kind of whacko change is that aon11:08
aonvektori: nobody uses it11:08
* tilman <3 utf8 now11:08
aonnowadays it wouldn't matter, though11:08
aonwith transcode and stuff11:08
vektoriBleh, UTF-8 is The Future.11:09
jjpkI use utf-8, so far so good.11:09
vektoriI'm actually frustrated by e.g. OpenBSD's inability to properly handle UTF-8.11:09
jjpkvektori: they certainly have not made it a priority.11:10
aoni'm not very concerned with the future in that field11:10
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vektoriI'm not sure why anyone would prefer a bunch of different, incompatible encodings over UTF-8.11:10
aondunno, i'd be fine with ascii11:10
tilmanaon probably just uses latin111:10
aonbut finnish becomes confusing without umlauts11:11
jjpkutf-8 is still not complete, but it does a good job in being able to display most writing systems without reconversion.11:12
jjpkOften that is a font problem because not all support arabic, cyrillic, latin.11:12
jjpkNot to mention CJK.11:13
aon or asian scripts11:13
vektoriPlus it's nice to be able to use special characters in ID3 tags. :)11:13
vektoriFinally proper tagging for Godspeed You Black Emperor!'s F# A# (infinity sign) album.11:13
aoni have one album with infinity sign11:14
aonit's commonly replaced there by 'oo'11:15
aonor actually two different albums with the same names11:15
tilmani think one reason why i was switching to utf8 was vorbis comments actually11:15
teKi will be using "Gentoo" for now  <- he does not mention CRUX.. why bother :>11:15
aonbut i really don't care if the chinese songs have their real names or #ยค~11:15
tilmani had a latin1 o/ somewhere and wondered why xmms2 wouldn't display it properly11:15
vektoriBut at least vorbis-tools knows how to convert between different character sets properly.11:16
tilmanvektori: yeah, i'm using my own ripper, which was buggy11:16
tilmandidn't use raw mode when i should have, or something like that11:17
vektoriHas Han left the channel?11:18
tilmanhe was pissed off because of us i think11:18
j^2aw Han, how we miss the /ignores11:19
jjpkIf I remeber correctly, predatorfreak kept saying there was an email documenting why Han left.11:21
jjpkLooked around the archives, but found nothing.11:21
surrounderhe's a great guy really although a little difficult with people11:22
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jjpkHan is outspoken and he does not compromise his opinions, but knows what he is after.11:24
jjpkThat is the impression I have of Han.11:24
surroundersomewhat yeah11:24
surrounderand he's really intelligent11:24
surrounderseen him quite a few times IRL11:25
treachWhat he's after? Like, your blood?11:25
vektoriSounds like a guy with Asperger's syndrome.11:25
treachlet's hope he never meets arnuld. That might be the end of the world.11:27
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jjpkI can't remember where I read this, but m$ Billy G has Asperger's.11:27
treachjjpk: aspergers is like any other disease/disorder.11:27
jjpktreach: that would be interesting to see unraveling on the ml :D11:27
treachyou don't have to be a complete whacko just because you're hit.11:27
jjpkYeah I know, asperger's is not always properly diagnosed because there are other diseases that have similar symptoms.11:28
treach(btw, I *do* consider billg a wacko.. and SteveB too..)11:28
treachwell. The point is that it's not a "binary" state.11:29
jjpkSteveB being the greater whacko imo.11:29
jjpkNope, many shades of gray instead ;)11:29
treachthere are quite a few autistic people who manages to live normal lives.11:29
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treacha lot of people aren't even dignosed at all.11:29
treachjjpk: have you seen that scary commercial he did for windows...3.0?11:30
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tilmani watched that doom-on-win95 thing some months ago11:31
tilmanthat was o_O11:31
vektoriBitTorrent's Bram Cohen has Asperger's too IIRC.11:32
treachtilman: the one steve did for 3.0 was just totally crazy. He's totally jumpin' jack nuts.11:32
surrounderhmm should google it11:32
surroundernever seen it11:32
tilmanvektori: yes11:33
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treachsurrounder: if he knocked your door and looked like that you'd buy it. Even today. :-)11:33
tilmani might have found it *excited*11:34
treachtilman: look at his eyes.11:34
tilmanaww, 40411:34
jjpktreach: yeah I have seen that commercial.11:34
jjpkJust a bit possessed ;)11:35
treachright it's 1.0.11:35
treach(just found it on my hd.)11:35
surrounderit's great!11:36
surrounderat least it's cheaper than vista ;)11:37
treachyeah, just take a frame and put it on a "beware of the dog/steve" sign. :-/11:37
tilmanrofl, is this real?11:37
tilmanuse the last frame for the sign11:38
surrounderhehe yeah11:38
tilmanomg, you can paste a ferrari into windows write11:39
treachtilman: or you could mail that frame to arnuld: "Didn't we tell you to SHUT UP!?"11:39
surrounderI think we should make a arnuld-fanclub11:40
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tilmaninsane shit11:40
espohi tilman11:41
tilmanhi espo11:41
tilmani want a hi-res video11:43
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pitilloRomster, did your nvidia-x11r7-legacy port build properly in a fresh CRUX 2.3 install (2.6.20-3)? (riva tnt2 M64 here)11:54
Romsteri haven't tryed it on that kernel version no11:55
pitilloroberth, with wich version did you compile it?11:55
pitilloarf, sorry, Romster11:56
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tilmanso, mmh.12:56
tilmanwhen you pkgadd -u a package, pkgadd removes the target files first12:56
tilmanie when you upgrade irssi, pkgutils remove(2)'s /usr/bin/irssi12:56
tilmandoes anyone know whether rm(1)==unlink(2)==remove(2)?12:57
tilmanin case of regular files12:57
j^2why isnt our archives searchable?13:00
j^2is it a pipermail limitation?13:00
jaegerit is13:00
aontilman: remove(2)==unlink(2) definitely13:01
aoni dunno why rm would call anything else13:01
j^2opps :P13:01
aonwell, remove==rmdir if it's a dir13:02
tilmani'll try to explain again13:02
tilmanbefore 2a62ed9ad2688a873bc7773b2c3cf818456aeabb, prt-get update xorg-xf86-video-MINE would happily freeze your box13:03
tilmanafter that commit, libarchive is unlinking the target file for us13:03
tilmanand that fixed the problem13:03
tilmanbut why does this help, if pkgutils is unlinking itself already?13:03
tilmansuppose you call unlink(
tilmanthe file is still opened by the x server, so it doesn't get deleted13:04
tilmanlibarchive then creat's or open's the file again13:04
tilmandoes it get a new inode or not?13:05
tilmani wonder whether creat and open have different semantics wrt that13:05
tilmanlibarchive uses open(O_WRONLY | O_CREAT | O_EXCL) anyway13:06
aondoesn't ls -li show you that? :)13:06
tilmanshow me what?13:08
tilmanwhether it's a zombie file?13:08
aonwhether the inode changes13:08
tilmangood point13:09
tilmanpkgutils alone doesn't change the inode13:09
tilmaneven if the file is not open13:09
tilmanstat said ENOENT before it re-created it13:11
tilmanthere's unlink(1)13:19
tilmani don't think remove(3) equals unlink(2) for files13:19
tilmani'm stupid13:23
tilmanthere's unlink(2) in the strace log13:23
pitillotreach, :)13:28
tilmanseems to be specific to the filesystem13:29
tilmani guess ext3fs just recycles inodes13:29
tilmanwhereas tmpfs doesn't13:29
RyoSwhere can i check make flags in crux?13:58
tilmanseems to work just fine without that _UNLINK flag for libarchive13:59
treachmake variables usually goes in the Pkgfile afaik.13:59
RyoStreach: ok14:00
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* treach watches ml go into full confession-mode.14:28
treachit's disgusting. :-(14:28
tilmandid i miss anything?14:30
treach.. I guess not.14:30
tilmani'm confused14:31
treachI suppose it's just me who can't stand long-winded "I know I suck, but please don't kick me out"-posts.14:31
treachI've certainly had my fill at least. :-/14:32
tilmanoh, i just ignored that14:32
tilmani didn't have he impression that he's whining anyway14:32
treachsmall mercy. it's fuzz anyway.14:33
jjpktreach: the ML was struck by the catholicism bug.14:57
jjpkNext thing we will see a priest absolving others...14:58
treachseems like it.14:58
jjpkI do not understand what is going on these days on the ml.14:59
jjpkDo some of those posters actually think they will be banned out by force? come on now...14:59
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treach"You suck! Get lost!"15:04
treachcan't have losers infecting this marvellous small elite community.15:04
* treach shots RyoS.15:06
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jjpktreach: then the place would just need an Anselm :D :D15:51
aonperhaps we should get rid of init scripts and move them into the init binary instead15:53
aonetc :)15:53
jjpkThat would be great.15:53
jjpkChanges done by editing source code header files \o/15:53
jjpkThen recompiling.15:53
treach"Heard of a hexeditor, you limp noodle!?"15:54
jjpkI'd love to see the reaction on the mailing list.15:54
jjpkThe armageddon arrived ahead of schedule muhaha.15:55
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jjpkAnother witness to the dead crux project16:07
jjpk"there was nothing there! they MUST be dead"16:08
treachsure. we're all dead. death has just not gotten around to taking care of us yet.16:09
jjpkDeath and it's subjective schedule.16:09
jjpk"hmm, who dies today.. that's a tough one. I'll pick something random"16:10
treachBusy guy. You can't really blame him :>16:10
jjpkNo shortage of activity. :D16:10
treachjjpk: I think that's his friend Fate, btw. :)16:10
jjpkDeath's secretary of sorts.16:11
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erixMeaning, Hi folks =)17:33
vektoriHello to you, stranger!17:33
jaegerheyo, erix and vektori17:34
vektoriHey jaeger. :)17:34
erixvektori, tnx!17:34
jaegerhaven't talked to you in a while, how's it going?17:34
vektoriMmh, feeling sleepy. :)17:35
jaegergoing well. busy with work but not bad17:35
vektoriGood to hear.17:35
erixjaeger, hey17:35
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erixi have problems with VMWare 5.5.1 and xorg-libxcb, have an assertion :(17:39
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jaegerI don't think you're the only one having that problem, I think I remember seeing someone talk about it recently... but I didn't see the fix17:40
erixOk, may be newer versions of VMWare works fine?17:52
jaegerperhaps... not really familiar with it, myself17:54
erixDoes any older version that works?17:56
treachdidn't tilman fix that problem in the port?17:57
jaegerdon't know, honestly17:57
erixI should test my code under w32 too, but I dont want to change CRUX to another system :(17:57
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treacherix: are your xorg packages current?17:57
erixtreach, yeah17:58
treachhum, ok, never mind me then. :-/17:58
erixok =)18:04
sepenalso, Im trying to port another VM called virtualbox but I need dev86 instead of bin86 port18:10
sepenreally I only need 'bcc' included on bin86 instead of my alternative port18:17
erixbelive it helps18:18
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nipuLoh crap, i think i might add a feature to pkgrm like pkgadd where files can be backed up or not deleted19:43
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loupgaroublondis there a way to coax prt-get sysup into downloading all the source first, and then compiling after?21:26
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nipuLhow about... prt-get sysup --margs="-do" --config-append="addcommand true"21:50
prologic$ for port in `prt-get quickdiff`; do cd `prt-get path $port` && pkgmk -do; done21:51
prologicI like yours better nipuL :)21:52
nipuLdo i win?21:52
prologicyes :)21:52
nipuLthe true xen of CRUX21:53
nipuLprt-get can be used to do everything21:53
prologicit is quite nice in design21:53
prologictoo bad it's in C++ :)21:54
loupgaroublondprologic, yeah, it could be in python22:00
nipuLsshh don't say that word here22:00
loupgaroublondhaha, i'll say pillow instead22:00
* loupgaroublond is a pillow programmer :P22:01
nipuL"pillow" isn't leet enough for CRUX utilities22:01
nipuLeverything must be written in bash and c22:01
nipuLreally it's just to reduce dependencies22:01
loupgaroublondpity, python is a nice language22:03
nipuLbut then there's now law against not using the "preferred" tools22:04
loupgaroublondyeah, i like that actually22:07
loupgaroublondi'm still not sure i get what --config-append does22:09
nipuLread the man page22:13
nipuLand the one for prt-get.conf22:13
loupgaroublondyeah, i just did that22:14
* loupgaroublond is slow22:14
nipuLspeaking of CRUX utilities written in python...22:30
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