IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2007-05-09

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pitillogood morning01:30
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jkrDoes anyone use dcron here?05:34
brointhemixthe standard cron for crux?06:28
namenlosbrointhemix: at least it is in core...06:34
namenlosso i think, yes...06:34
nipuL$ ls -d /usr/ports/core/*cron*06:35
brointhemixso then, I use it :)06:35
brointhemixworks nice06:35
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rxiis that a metephor for ubuntu users taking it up the arse? :P07:15
Romsteri dunno lol07:16
rxidont tell me youve turned to the dark side07:18
vektoriConnected to localhost.localdomain.07:18
vektoriEscape character is '^]'.07:18
vektoriSSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu107:18
Romsternah i wouldn't move from crux ;P07:19
rxihehe i meant vektori07:19
vektoriIt's not very dark at least on the server side.07:19
surelyubuntu and server.. isn't that kind of a contradiction in terms..?07:21
namenlosi think it's interessting because of its long time support...07:22
surelyI seem to remember a few pretty high profile screw-ups.07:22
vektoriYep, five years of guaranteed updates FTW.07:22
surelyhehe, iirc, potato is still somewhat supported. :P07:22
vektoriAnd outdated.07:22
vektoriAlso, scheduled releases FTW.07:23
surelyso? Ubuntu won't be outdated in 5 years?07:23
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vektoriSure, but if I feel that way I can update to a newer stable release.07:24
treachdamned timeouts..07:24
namenlossurely: had the same thoughts...07:24
treachI think that goes for debian as well, and really, on a server, as long as the stuff does what it's supposed to and have no security issues, who cares?07:25
vektoriWell, on Debian, the choice is stable (and probably outdated) or unstable (stuff breaks).07:25
namenlosthis is why openbsd has still apache 1.3...07:25
vektoriI like getting new versions every six months while still remaining stable.07:26
treachvektori: there's always testing. Not too out of date imo, and probably not any worse than ubuntu.07:27
vektoriYep, but still no scheduled releases.07:27
treachscheduled releases cuts both ways.07:28
nipuLM$ Patch Tuesday comes to mind07:28
treachfrankly, I'd prefer to wait a bit rather than getting hit by some major fuckup that crept in just because someone was trying to meet some deadline.07:29
vektoriThat's why you don't upgrade instantly.07:31
vektoriAnyway, time to go watch some gigs! \o/ ->07:31
treachknock yourself out. ;)07:32
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pitillois it a good idea to move 2.2 to 2.3 without the cd? (reviewing ports tree and sysup) Or is it better to do with the update script from the install 2.3 cd?08:09
jaegersafer to use the upgrade script from the CD though possible to do it either way08:13
pitilloI thought that too. (but I have not here the cd) Better I will wait and tomorrow I will use the 2.3 cd to make the update. Thank you jaeger.08:14
jjpkI highly recommend using the cd to upgrade, it is much faster :p08:19
esposo going to install my new vaio laptop :)08:19
jaegerwhich vaio?08:20
espoits a c1ve 9"08:21
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espodamn need to find a floppy :>08:56
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treachtodays hightech, still stranded without a floppy from.. 1984. :->09:02
espoonly the subnotebooks need one :)09:04
treachstill scandalous. an usbstick should do.09:04
espodidnt boot from it :/ already tried it :)09:05
treachmmh, my point.09:05
j^2morening all09:08
aonhi j^209:09
* treach lessenings j^209:10
j^2heh, no caffiene yet09:10
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aoni've had plenty :)09:19
treachgotta pull your straw to the stack. :->09:20
j^2i'm trying "Coolah"'s CRAP09:27
aondamn stupid site at least09:29
aonwhy not just drink coffee? :)09:29
j^2because i'm to lazy to go to starbucks and the coffee piss more than caffene09:29
* jaeger wipes the sweat off his brow09:40
treachcoffeine substitute? :P09:41
jaegerupdated ~100 packages on 2 production RHEL servers this morning, rebooted them09:41
j^2oh wow09:41
jaegerone of them still needs a RAID controller firmware update but we didn't have time for that as well as the other maintenance09:41
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* treach hands jaeger a cuppa.09:43
treachseems like you deserved it. :-)09:43
jaegerhehe, thanks09:43
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morlenxusIs there a reason why ctrl+alt+f[1-12] doesn't work on a running xserver?11:12
sepenmorlenxus, could be using an application that overwrites these values11:16
tilmanmissing xkb11:16
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morlenxustilman: hm11:21
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qidanyone have a good suggestion for a visual debugger under linux?13:30
j^2your eyes :P ZING!13:33
qidunfortunately, I'm not 1337 enough to look at my laptop and tell what state my program is in13:34
treachotherwise there's ddd, but I never felt comfortable with it.13:36
tilmanyou don't mean the kernel debugger, do you?13:37
tilmanwas it the one you showed me recently?13:37
treachI mean the one that is part of kdevelop.13:37
tilmanthe one with the ncurses interface?13:37
treachdon't worry.13:38
treachit's available separately as well.13:38
treachmeh, kdbg, of course..13:40
treachanyone familiar with something equivalent for gtk?13:41
tilmannot me13:43
tilmanif you make it a slave to gdb, it's probably not that hard13:43
jjpkHurray for people who forget to add the mailing list's address when replying. \o/14:22
aonhappens to me almost always, too :)14:29
treachpress "L" to reply. :P14:57
aoni need something like if($List-Id){echo("wake up!!");die;}14:59
jjpkCould be a solution.15:21
rawyou want to tell echo to die?15:42
aonehm, uh.15:43
aonyes, yes you can15:43
raw"The echo utility exits 0 on success or >0 if an error occurred."15:46
rawI don't think this is neccessary15:46
aonthis might come as a shock to you,15:47
aonthe above wasn't a ready patch for any particular email client15:48
rawand I was recompiling mutt already15:48
rawand deleted all my mails beforehand, to keep comatibility15:48
raweven the ones with free porn access15:49
aonand the penis and breast enlargement mails too?15:49
rawcompatibility, even15:49
treachit's so much of it you fall into coma. :P15:49
rawno, those go into SPAM15:49
j^2<--- got his penin enlarged 7 times according to my email :D15:49
rawI guess from that questions that it is different on your mbox?15:50
aonit's clearly enlarged too much and bothers typing15:50
rawI can type with my penis.15:51
treach"square your rooting device"?15:51
rawBut only in hard-mode15:51
rawthat's why I need #crux15:51
treachdoubling is so ooold.. nowadays it all about squaring.15:51
rawbut that just as a side note...15:51
treachOr was it "sharing"? I never get these things right...15:52
rawanyway, someone got some bondage to spare? I've to complete this protocoll of mine.15:52
treach"Sharing is squaring"...15:52
vektoriParljaduupa diipa dai.15:52
treachnevermind.  :/15:52
treachbut I guess the viagra spammers would like the "Squaring is caring" devise. :>15:53
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jjpksourcemage o_o16:06
treachcrazy shit eh..?16:07
jjpkThe guru part annoys me more :D16:10
treachhm, I'm more annoyed by the juvenile connotations. However, I'm not forced to use it. :-)16:12
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rawtilman: where are yoy?16:36
rawyour groupies in #xmms2 are missing you16:38
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obblanybody here?16:57
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treachnope, we're all out shopping.16:57
obblok, when you're back from shopping, could you tell me where xload/xclock and so on have gone in CRUX 2.3? ;-)16:58
treachI think there's no port for it, yet.17:00
treachmodular X you know. :-)17:00
obblis that modular X a special CRUX feature or the latest Xorg?17:01
treachit's just plain xorg.17:02
treachbut tilman made pretty much all the ports himself, so I think he cut some corners for it to be reasonable.17:02
obblhmm...wonderful...that has never been a problem...and in the time of 500GB harddisks they split it up it thousand of pkgs...17:02
treachI don't think that's why.17:03
obblwhat was the reason?17:03
treachIIRC, the reason for it was to ease updates.17:03
treachand development on chosen parts.17:03
obblok, building X was never real fun, you're right17:03
treachindeed. :P17:04
obblbut I just installed an old-style fvwm desktop and all my tools are missing :(17:04
loupgaroublondmaybe i'm that much of a newb, but why are all connections denied in crux via /etc/hosts.deny by default?17:05
treachloupgaroublond: why not?17:05
jjpk"Sane" defaults.17:05
treachloupgaroublond: we're not into Win9x "security" :P17:05
loupgaroublondi don't blame you, it's just my first distro that i've seen like that17:06
jjpkI usually blank /etc/hosts.deny and use iptables instead.17:06
obblloupgaroublond: that was ever the default, not only in CRUX, but the most distros. deny all, only allow the explicitly mentioned services17:07
loupgaroublondi spent an hour tinkering with sshd until i realized to look there17:07
jjpkIt is explained in the handbook.17:07
treachdamn. beaten again..17:07
loupgaroublondwell, back to learning how to use ports17:07
obbltreach: is there an extra package at for every tool or still one big monolithic download?17:08
treachno, it's all split up.17:09
obblahh, then it should not be a problem to get my tools back :)17:09
treachso, pretty much everything is it's own tarball.17:09
treachI made a couple of them for myself.17:09
obblok, then I will make a visit at tomorrow...17:09
treach(xcalc, xwud.)17:09
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jjpkNothing is ever perfect, the modular xorg shows that ;)17:28
jjpkThen again, maybe it is the way it is made available in crux.17:28
treachwell, I know wich way I prefer. :->17:28
jjpkI think many of the traditional x11 tools are losing popularity.17:29
treachthank god.17:29
jjpkHowever I do not think it is a big problem because it is easy to make ports in crux.17:29
jjpkIt is not rocket science.17:30
treachindeed, one of the main attractions imo. :-)17:30
jjpkThe way how xorg is made available in crux right now is good.17:31
jjpkFairly complete and caters to most users.17:31
treachyeah. And if you need more it's not difficult to fix.17:32
jjpkThese days I appreciate the crux philosophy and the fact that it is explicitly stated.17:33
jjpkI think many of the more popular distributions are becoming clouded because they are overreaching.17:34
treachmmh, they are basically converging a bit too much.17:34
jjpkThen again, they do tend to have more developer hours than this project.17:35
treachyeah, crux is doing amazingly well considering the resources available.17:35
treachagain though, I guess we've got the KISS philosophy to thank for that.17:36
jjpkI think it is because the philosophy is based on simplicity, even if currently things are not planned too well.17:36
jjpkOr otherwise hazy17:36
treachI guess most people are happy about where we are, so where to go is less important.17:37
jjpkYou are right because crux still works.17:38
jjpkI would just like to see the process a bit more open and transparent.17:38
jjpkSmall improvements, nothing revolutionary.17:38
jaegersmall moves, ellie17:39
treachhm, I don't think there's anything wrong with either openness or transparency currently.17:39
jjpkEssentially no, everything is working relatively well.17:39
treachIf I was about to point at something that seems problematic is that there seems to be abit too little leadership atm.17:40
jjpkLike I said, I am pleasantly surprised that crux has been able to stick to its goals over the years.17:40
treach(yay for buzzords, but you know what I mean, I hope.)17:41
jjpkMaybe that was the word I should have used.17:41
jjpkI would go so far to say that crux is very much like anarchism and it shows it _can_ work.17:43
treachmmh. well, people not really aware of what's happening, who will do what, and so on isn't  good really.17:44
treachjust look at the confusion wrt the package management tools and it's rewrite.17:44
jjpkI would want to see that be more clear, otherwise I have nothing else to complain about in crux.17:44
jjpkThere are at least 3 divisions working on some changes, even rewrites iirc.17:45
jjpkIn that regard, it would be good if all these were posted @ crux.nu17:46
jjpkTo have a general idea of what is going on, etc.17:46
jjpkCurrently, I find to be somewhat lagging behind what is actually going on.17:46
jjpkThis is what I mean by more transparency, informing what people are doing, if they are up to something.17:47
treachI'd like someone to put down a foot in the issue.17:47
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jjpkYeah, something like that.17:47
treacheveryone just seems to be hovering in indecisiveness and/or working on their own project.17:48
jjpkThere are too many channels to get information from, and some of them probably are not public per se.17:49
jjpkAt least not mentioned very often.17:49
treachI think everyone who this concerns are properly briefed.17:50
treachhowever, at least to me, it seems like there's nobody who is willing/have the time to really get things moving.17:51
jjpkThe website would be a good way to announce those things, it is the lowest common denominator.17:51
jjpktreach: those reasons probably do explain a lot of the issues.17:52
jjpkA few of the core, inner circle people are rarely here.17:52
treachmmh, that's how I feel about it anyway.17:52
* treach awaits the inner circle to retribute in full out attack-mode. :P17:53
jjpk:D :D17:53
jjpkWTF! how dare a lowly user say such things!17:53
treachwell. I think I've been around long enough to have something useful to say.17:54
treach(I hope)17:54
jjpkIn my books, I say you do.17:55
jjpkYou've used crux since the 0.9* days, right?17:55
treach0.93 iirc.17:55
jaegerwonder who the oldest user is at the moment17:56
treachyou, jue..?17:57
jaegerjue, obbl, probably not me17:57
jaegerI started with 0.9.217:57
jjpkI forget whether it was 1.2 or 1.3.17:57
treachok, not that much before me then. :)17:57
jjpkA few years anyway.17:58
jjpkTime has just passed by so quickly.18:04
treachyou may comfort yourself with the fact that the older you get the faster time will pass.18:04
treachat least that's how I feel..18:05
jjpkI've noticed.18:05
jaegerI'm not sure that's a comfort18:05
treachwell, you'll reach your retirement faster. :p18:05
jaegertrue =)18:06
treach@seen vkd18:07
clbtreach: vkd was last seen in #crux 50 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 2 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <vkd> back in a bit...18:07
jaegers/a bit/a year... maybe/18:07
treachhe's still listed as a maintainer on the "about" page.18:08
jjpkJust a tad stale info.18:08
treachok, time to find out what the pillow is up to.18:10
treachsee you guys.18:10
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jaegertake care... or not18:11
* jaeger is old AND slow18:11
jjpkback in a bit, now that is up there with famous last words.18:14
jjpkJust my opinion, but vkd should not be listed there since he has not really shown up for a year now. :s18:17
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Romsteri started on 2.121:27
Romsternot that long ago.21:27
nipuLi think i started with 1.321:48
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prologicRFC :)22:29
nipuLi like cheese22:40
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nipuL:( someone give me a job in the northern hemisphere, it's getting cold here already22:56
prologicget a gf :)22:57
nipuLanother one?!?!22:59
prologicoh ok22:59
prologicnvm then :)23:00
prologicwell go to her she'll keep you warm :)23:00
nipuLnah, she's colder at the moment23:00
prologicyeah they always are23:00
nipuLi'm in the doghouse for some reason *shrug*23:00
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Romsterthought women are ment to be warmer than us blokes.23:05
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