IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2007-05-24

*** jaeger has quit IRC00:00
*** pitillo has joined #crux00:11
*** morlenxus has joined #crux00:36
*** treach has joined #crux00:41
*** namenlos has joined #crux01:09
*** mike_k has joined #crux01:14
*** acrux_ has joined #crux01:18
pitillogood morning01:19
*** acrux has quit IRC01:20
*** mike_ has joined #crux01:22
*** mike_k has quit IRC01:38
*** namenlos has quit IRC01:50
*** morlenxus has quit IRC01:54
*** morlenxus has joined #crux01:55
*** namenlos has joined #crux01:55
*** sepen has joined #crux02:44
*** mike__ has joined #crux02:53
*** mike_ has quit IRC02:53
*** acrux_ has quit IRC03:01
*** brointhemix has quit IRC03:16
*** sepen has quit IRC04:00
*** sepen has joined #crux04:14
*** RedShift has joined #crux04:29
pitilloa bit of spam.... I hope some can see it interesting and I hope I dont disturb anyone.
pitillos/some/someone :)06:22
sepensepen  signed .)06:29
namenlosalready signed this petition this morning ;)06:31
pitillowaiting for wow people (I know there are some)06:31
pitillonamenlos, nice :)06:31
namenlosbut afaik blizzard works together with the cedega people to keep wow runnable at least for cedega...06:48
namenlosanyone ever tried out winecvs?06:48
*** Viper_ has joined #crux06:55
*** Roomster has quit IRC06:59
*** Roomster has joined #crux07:09
*** namenlos has quit IRC07:16
*** namenlos has joined #crux07:24
*** onestep has joined #crux07:39
*** jdolan_ has joined #crux07:39
morlenxusDoes someone know if it's possible to change the linux kernel cache to a high size (for example 4GB) to allow holding big database tables in the memory? It should write the data to disk when the system is idle or on a specific timeout (don't hold longer than one minute).07:52
namenlosisn't that a matter of the db?07:55
morlenxusWell i'm not sure. :)07:56
morlenxusCould be a db setting, could be a kernel setting, could be a mount option.07:57
treachhm, that sounds like a db setting, imo.07:57
namenloswell, unfortunatelly i cant help you with that (i am in the lucky position where i never had to do such finetunigs with the db... )07:58
treachpresumeably you could play around with the swappiness, but I'm not sure that's all that helpful in this case.07:59
*** namenlos has quit IRC07:59
morlenxustreach: But you think it's a db option? But when i want this for the whole system, it would be nice if it's configurable for the whole kernel.08:00
*** namenlos has joined #crux08:00
treachsure, but reasonably, if you want as much of the db as possible to stay in ram, it should be a db setting.08:01
morlenxusWell do you know how to set that in the kernel? :)08:02
treach/usr/src/linux/Documenation/sysctl/vm.txt could possibly be helpful08:03
namenlossorry for my stupid question, but anyone got a idea, what is missing in my system? i wnat to install the ati port, but i get this:
treachmorlenxus: this also seems like a good read
morlenxustreach: Thank you!08:08
treachnamenlos: too new kernel or missing deps, my guess.08:09
treachgive pitillo a good kick and see what happens. :P08:10
namenlosto new kernel could be the case. it is ...08:11
treachpitillo: you're not Jose?08:12
jjpktreach: that would be sepen08:12
pitilloseems the kernel version. I think sepen will read this and may be he can try to update his kernel (from a 2.6.20-3 to your version
treachpitillo: sorry for the mix-up. :]08:12
pitillotreach, sepen :)08:12
pitillotreach, no problem :)08:12
*** jaeger has joined #crux08:13
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o jaeger08:13
namenloshm, but why does he have to update his kernel? isn't that the job of ati/amd to update the driver?08:14
jjpkProprietary drivers <308:14
jjpkAlways behind the curve.08:14
namenlosi love them, too ...08:14
jjpkIt is a shame, really.08:15
pitillonamenlos, may be... but he can take a look and look for a solution....08:15
treachwell, the tickless feature is pretty invasive, and not to mention new.08:15
pitillojjpk, true...08:15
treachsmall wonder it messes up closed drivers.08:15
*** Roomster has quit IRC08:42
*** Dudde has quit IRC08:44
*** mavrick61 has quit IRC08:44
*** Roomster has joined #crux08:56
*** destruct has joined #Crux09:07
*** hidden1 has joined #crux09:19
hidden1hi guys :)09:19
hidden1(and girls :))09:19
hidden1one Q09:21
thrice`ok, but it's not guarenteed one A :-)09:21
hidden1i guess it's generic question09:22
hidden1Could not load /lib/modules/'uname -r/modules.dep: no such file or directory09:22
*** destruct_ has quit IRC09:22
hidden1when trying to modprobe09:22
aonthere's obviously a typo there09:22
aonunless you typoed the error message instead of pasting it here, in which case it can be something tricky09:22
thrice`depmod -a generates such a file, I beliebe09:22
pitilloaon, +109:23
thrice`it's missing '09:23
aonthey should be ``09:23
aon' is something different09:23
hidden1so, what should i do to create one?09:24
aonwell, depmod -a ?09:25
sepen$(uname -r)09:25
aonor `uname -r`09:25
hidden1when i do depmode09:25
hidden1i get this09:25
hidden1WARNING: Couldn't open directory /lib/modules/2.6.17/13: no such file or directory09:26
treach"make modules_install" maybe?09:26
aonthink you typoed that too09:26
aonbut yeah, what treach said09:26
hidden1any suggestions?09:27
treachahum.. ^09:27
hidden1this happened on Slack too09:27
aonyes, above09:27
hidden1sorry, didn't see09:27
hidden1i did that, actually09:27
hidden1when i was first compiling kernel09:28
aondo you have module support in your kernel? :)09:28
hidden1i followed CRUX handbook09:29
aonthe handbook doesn't say anything about this09:29
treachthe handbooks isn't a substitute for knowledge. Sorry.09:30
*** pell has joined #crux09:30
hidden1i agree, but, that's why i'm asking you here09:30
treachwell, as aon pointed out; Do you have support for modules in your kernel, yes or no?09:31
hidden1as i said, i just followed handbook (never compiled a kernel before), but i didn't touch anything09:32
hidden1was i supposed to?09:32
hidden1just tell me the step09:32
thrice`i thought there was a default in there09:32
treachthe defaults are rarely 100% well suited to your hardware.09:32
thrice`er, default .config09:32
thrice`treach: true, but should at least have module support :P09:33
aoncd /usr/src/linux && grep CONFIG_MODULES .confg09:33
aonreplace linux with linux-whatever.version09:33
treachthrice`: agreed, but he still pretty much has to do it.09:33
aoni'm literally SHOCKED about having that compat symlink on my system09:33
treachIt's part of the BASICS, I think.09:34
aonit's EXCESS09:34
aonEXCESS != BASICS09:34
treachheh, "make config" is the way to true EXCESS09:34
aonmale allyesconfig is EXCESS by DEFINITION09:35
treachhidden1: just run "make menuconfig" and carefully go through the various options.09:35
hidden1aon: CONFIG_MODULES=y09:35
treachIt might take a while, but on the other hand you only need to do it once. (if you save your .config ;) )09:36
hidden1ok ;)09:36
aonand be sure to run make modules_install09:36
hidden1I DID!09:36
hidden1in the first palce09:36
treachand also, please note the "_" :)09:37
aonmake modules install is good, too, but erroneous09:37
treachlots of people type "make install modules" and then wonder why stuff won't work. :P09:37
hidden1there is Enable loadable module support09:37
hidden1is that the thing i'm looking for?09:38
aonwell, doesn't it sound like it?09:39
hidden1i'm not dumb man, it's just09:40
treachhidden1: just take your time, and ask google if the help doesn't make enough sense. These are things you need to understand.09:40
hidden1it's enabled by default09:40
treachIt sure was easier in the good old 2.0.x days though. :>09:42
aondunno why you even need modules :)09:43
aonunless you're planning to use some PROPRIETARY EVILNESS09:43
treachwell, it's easier to swap hardware if you need.09:43
hidden1probing my NIC?09:43
aonwhy can't you just compile it in the kernel?09:43
aontreach: yeah09:44
aonalthough kernel compiles don't take ages09:44
treachaon: I'd say that highly depends on what hardware you have. :P09:44
aonbut running crux on hardware where it takes ages is pure insanity09:44
treachbuilding 2.6 on some old 486 sure ain't fun. :D09:44
treachIt wasn't fun even with 2.4 :)09:45
aonand how often do you replace hardware, anyway?09:45
treachnot that often, but it happens. But the point mainly stands for places where downtime is a problem.09:46
hidden1enjoy ppl09:46
*** hidden1 has left #crux09:46
aonagain, wouldn't go putting linux in places like that :)09:46
aonbut let's hope he actually runs modules_install now09:46
treachhowever, the fact is that people will use what tools they are familiar with, which not neccessarily translates to the tools that are best suited.09:49
treachthis is for instance why SUN is dead meat in the long run.09:49
*** mike__ has quit IRC10:01
*** mavrick61 has joined #crux10:16
*** Dudde has joined #crux10:17
*** mavrick61 has quit IRC10:36
*** Dudde has quit IRC10:36
*** mavrick61 has joined #crux10:40
*** Dudde has joined #crux10:40
*** onestep has quit IRC11:34
*** mike_k has joined #crux11:38
*** namenlos has quit IRC11:47
*** lasso has joined #crux12:20
pitillocan anyone why can be done a backtrace on a (first time I see this, and not much info related)12:24
rawsorry, an unknown error occured in your sentence. try again? [yes] [no] [ignore] [abort]12:25
treachit's not unknown.12:25
treachit's "SYNTAX ERROR AT LINE 1" :)12:25
tilmanthe syntax is correct, but it's semantic crap12:26
tilmanwell, depends.12:26
tilmanpitillo: so, rephrase please12:26
tilmanor just fill in the missing word(s)12:26
pitilloI dont know how to explain better, sorry. I pick [ignore]. I will read more. Thank you for that syntax/semantic corrections. :)12:27
tilmanpitillo: your question was missing a verb at least12:28
tilmanread it again12:28
tilmanyou *can* do better :)12:28
pitillocan anyone explain me why can be done a backtrace on a (this is the first time I see this error, and there is not much information related)12:29
tilmans/why/how/ ?12:29
tilmanpitillo: can you have a debugger print a backtrace to the current point of execution12:30
tilmanpitillo: getting a backtrace on a log file doesn't make sense12:30
tilmanpitillo: maybe explain the problem?12:30
pitillotilman, I can try to run into a debugger, but like I said this is the first time I got an error like this.... at the end of the Xorg.0.log there is printed a backtrace and then a "Caught signal 11".12:31
pitilloI am not sure what I am doing bad. May be I need more info and reading, sorry.12:32
* raw experienced a crashing xorg as well12:32
tilmanah, i see12:32
tilman1.) become root12:32
rawpitillo: are you using i810/intel by any chance?12:32
tilman2.) gdb Xorg12:33
tilman3.) in x: type "run"12:33
treach(0. make sure your xorg isn't stripped)?12:33
tilmanimportant: use a 2nd box to run x inside gdb12:33
pitilloraw, yes....12:33
tilmanwhen you start x, it will take over your video card and thus the screen will be pretty dark12:33
tilman0.) rebuild xorg-server and your video driver with CFLAGS="-g -O0" ... pkgmk -ns -kw12:34
tilmanif you run nvidia: olol fail12:34
pitillotilman, brbrbr.... well, I will try to run with gdb and I will look for some info... thank you (taking note the last point... It is builded with default options, I need to read what these do)12:36
tilmanpitillo: absolutely remember to use a 2nd computer12:36
pitilloraw, I will try to find something... (that sentec I think was a clue...)12:36
tilmanto ssh in and call gdb12:36
rawpitillo: if you find out why x is crashing let me know12:36
rawI think we both have the same problem12:37
pitilloraw, ok, be sure of that.12:37
rawDoes your kernel segfault when you uninstall the driver?12:37
tilmanraw: do you have a backtrace?12:37
rawtilman: nope12:37
tilmankernel cannot segfault12:37
rawerr, panic12:37
tilmanit can oops, panic, and die12:37
tilmanraw: wow, nice12:38
tilmanraw: on 'rmmod i915'?12:38
pitilloraw, do you mean removing the module?12:38
rawno, on prt-get remove xorg-blafoo-i810 :)12:38
rawreboot and BAM! dead12:38
tilmanwhat the hell12:38
tilmanit panics after reboot?12:39
rawIt's an acpi issue. At least the backtrace hints at that.12:39
pitilloraw, trying it12:39
rawpitillo: do you have acpi compiled in?12:39
pitilloraw, yes12:39
tilmanraw: but you do start x before the panic happens?12:40
rawnot as module?12:40
rawtilman: nope, it panics at init 212:40
tilmanthat just doesn't make sense12:40
tilmanthat's totally retarded12:40
tilmanwhy would the kernel care about a *userspace* gfx driver?12:40
rawI don't have a fucking clue.12:40
pitilloraw, removed the package and reboots fine....12:40
rawBut hey, we're talking about acpi here.12:41
tilmanraw: coincidence?12:41
pitilloraw, do you have it in?12:41
rawthere's no coincidence with acpi12:41
rawpitillo: I've compiled it in, yes (not as module)12:41
pitilloraw, same here and no problem removing the package...12:41
rawwell, I guess it's not a thinkpad t60?12:42
tilmanraw: i mean it must be a coincidence that it panics when the driver has been uninstalled before12:42
rawtilman: thing is, I can reproduce it12:42
rawAfter reinstalling the driver, I get to the console12:42
rawI remove the driver, reboot, and we're gone again, rescue boot, pkg_add, reboot, remove driver, reboot, dead, etc...12:43
rawI did that 5 times, because I couldn't believe it myself12:43
rawAnd everytime there are acpi symbols in the backtrace12:44
tilmanpkg_add or pkgadd?12:44
tilmanif it's the former i don't care12:44
rawpkgadd of course...12:44
tilmantried #xorg or the xorg ml?12:44
rawmeh, I hate it, why can't just anyone name their packagemanagementtools PMT?12:44
tilmaneveryone will think you're on crack, but it might be worth a try12:44
pitillowell... you are machines...12:45
pitilloworking :)12:45
rawtilman: no not yet, I don't have time for lengthly debugging sessions right now.12:45
raw. o O ( In fact, talking to you right now screws my shedule! I'm a lazy slacker. )12:45
treachraw: how about "package management system"? :P12:45
rawtreach: nice idea! now just convince the rest of the world12:46
tilman"blog it!"12:46
tilmanwe so need planet.crux.nu12:46
tilmanwhere all crux-related blogs can be aggregated12:46
treach"My computer has PMS"12:46
rawthat would be so...uninteresting?!12:46
tilmani love planets12:47
rawwho cares to what convention you're going in two weeks anyway12:47
tilmantoo bad there's roughly zero crux-blogs12:47
tilmani'll cry in the corner now12:48
*** Roomster has quit IRC12:48
rawmuch appreciated12:48
pitillothese are things that I dont understand...12:49
pitilloraw, solved with a force rebuilding12:50
rehabdollhave you decided on the xinerama-patch yet tilman?12:50
tilmanoh crap12:52
tilmanrehabdoll: sorry, i forgot to bring it up.12:52
tilmanrehabdoll: i just asked the release manager though12:52
tilmanopenbox 3.4 out soonish, btw12:54
rawwhy blackbox anyway?12:54
rehabdollfluxbox \o/12:55
rawas default window manager I mean12:55
rawnah, too bloated12:55
rehabdollhow so?12:55
surrounderfvwm <312:55
raw << wow, this one surely needs a window manager12:56
tilmancrazy dutch persons <312:56
tilmanthe next guy will request CDE on the iso12:57
tilmantreach: fvwm = crazy12:57
RyoShey i want GNOME12:57
treachno. :)12:57
rawsurrounder: 22"?12:57
treachI guess the "tek" person in that irssi session isn't the one here..?12:57
rawsurrounder: resolution?12:58
tilmani think your music player thing needs another terminal font12:58
treachsurrounder: get some decent fonts!12:58
surrounderhm, I really like this one12:58
rawah ok, I've 22"@1680x1050 and was wondering why yours is broader than my display12:58
surrounderhad terminus before and some artwiz thingies but I like this one better12:58
tilmani love smooth12:59
tilmansurrounder: looks nice btw12:59
treachI was mostly thinking of your irssi shot.12:59
*** Roomster has joined #crux12:59
treachs /shot/window12:59
surroundertilman: smoothansi ?13:00
treachbut fvwm++ :)13:00
surroundertreach: oh yeah!13:00
raw(notebook display)13:00
tilmansurrounder: i'm using smooth.pcf.gz13:00
surrounderraw: looks nice!13:01
surroundermore screenshots! \o/13:01
treachmany things can be said about fvwm, but it's the most reliable wm I've ever used.13:01
rawoldest I have uploaded ;)13:02
surroundertilman: aah nice, thanks13:02
pitilloraw, do you want my kernel config and xorg.conf to take a look to them (may be can give you some clue)13:05
rawpitillo: are you running a thinkpad?13:05
surroundertilman: hmm not my kind of fonts :)13:05
tilmani think it's pretty close to the one you use13:06
pitilloraw, no, compaqdesktop.13:06
*** jdolan_ has quit IRC13:06
*** jdolan_ has joined #crux13:06
rawpitillo: eh, than no use ;)13:06
pitilloraw, ok, I though may be can give you some clue.... at least with xorg.conf. :)13:06
rawpitillo: nah, the xorg.conf is fine ;)13:07
pitilloraw, ok13:07
rawit's the kernel(config) for shure13:07
*** sepen has quit IRC13:11
*** sepen has joined #crux13:13
*** tilman has quit IRC13:51
*** tilman_ has joined #crux14:04
tilman_some idiot bastard stole my nick14:04
tilman_i'll teach him!14:04
tilman_if i happen to remember my password14:05
tilman_password incorrect?14:05
tilman_what the fuck?14:05
* sepen man NickServ14:06
*** tilman_ is now known as tilman14:09
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o tilman14:09
tilmanmavrick61: ping14:12
*** mike_k has quit IRC14:22
*** tilman has quit IRC14:52
*** thrice` has quit IRC15:47
jjpkTuomo at it again.16:04
jjpkOddly enough this is all unraveling more or less to what he said in his blog earlier.16:12
rawcare to link?16:15
jjpkImo, Tuomo is drifting into madness :D16:17
*** RedShift has quit IRC16:18
treachmmh, his rantings previously on display doesn't disprove that theory..16:18
jjpkThis is with the xft/fontconfig rant he managed to bring into the archlinux ml posts.16:20
j^2if i want to check my port forwarding from an interal network addy, i should be able connect to the address right?16:20
treachjjpk: he seems to be right up there with theo..16:21
jjpktreach: to say the least.16:23
treachsurely too much bad alcohol. ;)16:23
jjpkAnother favorite topic of his, linux is turning into a pile of shit (at the bottom)16:24
treach"I will be abandoning for either FreeBSD or Windows XP "16:26
treachYeah, right.16:26
treachsave your sanity from ugly linux, install windows XP...16:27
treachthe guy is nuts.16:27
treachit's official.16:27
treachIs deader than yesterdays leftovers.16:28
jjpkTuomo is the personifcation of everything sucking.16:29
jjpkThere probably is nothing that will not endure his wrath haha16:30
surrounderBeOS <316:31
treachI'd really like to hear his opinions about windows after seriously trying to use it for say a week.. :D16:31
jjpkI can agree with his hatred of XML for config files, but the rest is almost uncalled for.16:31
treachmmh, I agree with that too, but anyone who claims Windows XP is saner or in any way better than Linux needs to have their head examined.16:33
jjpkMy suggestion for him, put up or shut up. The source code is there, start working on it.16:33
treachTumOS ;)16:33
jjpkI wonder what kind of nightmare that would be.16:34
jjpkProbably a hearty step backwards to 1995 :D16:34
treachwell... considering my current environment, I'm not saying too much. :D16:35
jjpkAfter a bit of thinking back, I do begin to miss the days I used slackware 8. :p16:36
treachHonestly, I don't think crux is that different.16:36
treachit's just a bit cleaner, with better package management.16:37
jjpkIndeed. My point being the days prior to udev and the mess it is becoming :s16:37
treachtoss in fvwm and a port for ns4 for nostalgia, and you're good to go. :P16:38
treachwell, udev isn't mandantory, is it?16:38
jjpkAt least not in crux :p16:38
treachheh, I guess not.16:38
jjpkRemoving udev on ubuntu or fedora might cause some serious problems methinks.16:39
*** thrice` has joined #crux16:51
*** jdolan_ has quit IRC17:05
*** pitillo has quit IRC17:24
*** MzOzD_ has joined #crux17:29
*** lasso has quit IRC17:40
*** MzOzD has quit IRC17:42
*** Roomster has quit IRC17:50
*** Roomster has joined #crux17:52
nipuLseeing as devfs is gone there doesn't seem to be any alternative, short of going back to a static /dev18:21
nipuLthat said i quite like freebsd's devfs implementation18:21
jaegerI think there are patches to get devfs back in if you want to go that way, or alternatively, mdev or something (busybox)18:25
thrice`jaeger: have you tried newer udevs ?18:26
jaegeroccasionally. troubleshooting it sucks18:29
thrice`heh...I assume that's why it isn't updated too often :)  I was considering trying it, but it seems like so much work18:30
jaegerit's generally not hard to update, it's just tough to make sure it's working 100% correctly afterwards18:33
*** Viper_ has quit IRC18:48
*** Dudde has quit IRC19:03
*** mavrick61 has quit IRC19:03
*** mavrick61 has joined #crux19:04
*** Dudde has joined #crux19:04
nipuLman i hate people who smoke in front of their computer, one of the worst smells ever is opening up a pc of a smoker21:33
*** thrice` has quit IRC21:34
*** Enkidu_ak has quit IRC21:44
*** Enkidu_ak has joined #crux21:48
*** mrks has joined #crux22:30
*** mrks_ has quit IRC22:45
*** morlenxus has quit IRC23:05
*** morlenxus has joined #crux23:05
*** RedShift has joined #crux23:19
*** predatorfreak has joined #crux23:49

Generated by 2.11.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!