IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2007-06-09

NetUsr0needs to locate the c header files...00:03
NetUsr0tried: /lib/modules/
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prologicI maintain that02:36
prologiche needs to patch his kernel02:36
prologicI've included the vmware patch in the port02:36
prologicor not02:36
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tilmanoooh, new tar!04:46
treachyay, exitement. \o/04:47
treachnew kazehakaze too. :)04:48
treachonly very small bugfixes though. :(04:48
tilmanhaha, you misspelled the name04:48
treachyeah, I noticed.04:48
tilmanwhy exactly is the tar tarball 1.8 mb?04:49
treachthe manpage maybe? ;)04:49
tilmanno, i mean tar-1.17.tar.bz204:50
* treach makes another mark in the "Failed jokes" column04:50
tilmanwe supply our own man page04:51
tilmangrep -B 1 tar.1 /usr/ports/core/tar/Pkgfile04:51
treachoh, right, I had forgotten about that.04:51
tilmantext can be compressed insanely well anyway04:51
treachwell, we're talking about the *tar* manpage. :P04:52
tilman3.4 k compressed o_O04:52
tilman8.2 k uncmprssed o__O_04:52
aontilman: didn't you refer to kazehakase as "katze" at some point or was that something different?04:57
tilmanthat is correct!04:57
tilmanit was featured on recently, btw04:58
tilmanwe need a popcon for crux04:58
aonprobably takes a hour or so to implement, but would anyone really use it?04:59
tilmani wonder whether anyone uses my gift* ports04:59
tilmani'd like to remove them04:59
aonthe way i see it:04:59
aon1) remove port04:59
aon2) see if there's a complaint of lack of BASICS on the ml05:00
aon3) ???05:00
aon4) profit!05:00
tilman2.) if people cry, laugh at them05:00
aonwell, that'd probably be 305:00
tilmangah, i hope they implement caching in gitweb soon05:02
treachmmh, it would be nice if there was a way to know how many subscribers you have..05:04
tilmandoes anyone know what the upstream source of our tar.1 is?05:04
treachotoh, it'd be nice to be rich as well. :/05:04
treach@karma worries05:05
clbtreach: Karma for "worries" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.05:05
tilmanoh, hehe05:05
tilmani think gift was the first program that i packaged for crux05:08
tilmanthe end of an era05:08
treach"The goal of the FOSS herd is to turn everything into homogeneous shit, with no trace of individual character left."05:23
treach"I'm not insane, and I'm not bitter." :>05:23
tilmanwhere does that come from?05:24
treachthe last part isn't a quote, just me paraphrasing.05:25
treachthe first part is our dear Tuomo05:25
treachthe first part is our dear05:25
treach(the ion guy)05:26
aonyes, the difficulty of ignoring mail...05:28
aoni don't believe there actually are enough ion users for the complainers to become a nuisance05:28
aonotherwise he's usually quite right05:28
treach  <- another rant05:29
aoni've read all of his blog...05:29
treachaon: he's totally blinded and whines way too much.05:30
aoni still can't pinpoint anything where he's wrong, except for the license stuff05:30
aonand wrong is a bit errouneous there, too05:31
treachlike the part where he complains about the "force-feeding" of xft etc.05:31
tilmanooooh, he's the xft hater guy?05:32
tilmanor did anselm hate it, too?05:32
aonso you really think antialiased fonts are easier to read?05:32
treachaon: I don't really have an opinion about it, but I'm not suffering at the moment at least. :)05:32
tilmanwant me to look for screenshots of netscape 4 on x from 98?05:33
treachaon: the point is, there *is* no forcefeeding - if he wants to do something about it.05:33
aonwell, yep05:34
treachat least he has a bigger chance with the despicable "FOSS-herd" than he has with his new heroes, the closed source crowd.05:34
tilmansaying that AA'd fonts are crap per se is stupid05:34
aonlooks good to me05:35
aonthe netscape, that is05:35
tilmani completely fail to understand how you can think that that's "good"05:36
rawthe netbsd horde is gay.05:37
rawyou can clearly see how they are trying to...well I guess everybody can see that.05:38
nipuLhow does your choice of OS determine your sexuality?05:38
nipuLunless of course you use an os called ButFuckNIX or something05:38
tilmanhe's talking of the guys with the flag05:38
tilmannot nebsd users :P05:38
rawnipuL: I never lost a word about netbsd users.05:39
rawnipuL: I'm talking about the gay daemons.05:39
tilman"[...] they use flaky unfixable and unmaintainable autoconf cryptoware as their build systems."05:39
tilmanso this is a rant05:39
tilmanis it okay to call him a retard because of a rant?05:40
tilmanor are rants allowed to contain retarded statements?05:40
rawtilman: yes, please05:40
tilmanomg, i cannot read more of this bullshit05:40
tilman"clearly visibly mushroom haze"05:42
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tilmanwonder what kind of mushroom he has before he blogs"05:42
tilmani also wonder whether his whole blog is meant as satire?05:43
lennart_yesterday I updated my xorg ports to use xkeyboard-config and now my "Alt Gr" key doesn't work anymore in "de" and "us" layouts (I didn't test other layouts though)05:44
lennart_Xorg.0.log just says: "(WW) Couldn't load XKB keymap, falling back to pre-XKB keymap"05:45
tilmanare you using slim or another graphical login manager?05:46
tilmantry with 'startx'05:46
lennart_nope, just startx05:46
tilmantuomo threatens archlinux with legal crap05:47
tilmanway to go!05:48
aonbut arch can't have old packages05:49
aonbecause of their bleeding-edge philosophy05:49
treach"Windows, OTOH, has improved, although Vista has a small degradation again"05:51
tilmankind of reminds me of miguel05:51
treachthe author of ion praises windows..!? that's rich.05:52
aonhey, where'd the sidebar on his blog go?05:55
aonah nvm, my ff is fucked05:55
aon(how can that be?)05:55
treachcathedral software, it's all miracles I've read. ;)05:57
tilmanThe above name 'xftion3' is not ok,05:58
tilmanhowever, because 'ion3' occurs there in the name of a new product05:58
tilmanvery explicitly05:58
tilmanthat's a bit silly05:58
aonusing esr references does make him seem like a joke :)05:59
treachwell, you could try sell some software as "hackedwindowsxp" ;)05:59
treachor "Lindows" maybe. :)05:59
tilman> The only way to keep absolute control over the product as delivered to06:04
tilman> the user is to change the license and distribute Ion3 as binary-only.06:05
tilmanI am going to do that.06:05
aoni wonder why anyone doesn't propose that someone starts a fork (called FreeGloriousOpenIon3 or something), pulls all the changes, applies the xft or whatever patch, and distros package that06:11
tilman"Maybe they've employed a few representative06:11
tilmanspecimens of the FOSS herd -- a bunch of teenagers wanking to buzzwords,06:11
tilmaninstead of pr0n."06:11
tilmanwhen he says "crisp font", he means "jagged font", right?06:11
aonAs I'm not a06:12
aonnative speaker, I could accidentally use some words which would06:12
aonprobably represent what I'm thinking but not necessarily would be06:12
aonproper to write here.06:12
aon"native speaker" = "not to-the-point" :)06:12
tilman  * 20070203 is seriously outdated. The latest release is06:12
tilman    20070318.06:12
tilmanMy new license will also contain a 28 day "distributor timely response06:13
tilmanclause" as well. If the provide an 'ion' or 'ion-3' package, it must06:13
tilmanwithin 28 days provide the latest version. It is ok to have packages06:13
tilmanwith a specific version in the name, however.06:13
tilmanjesus motherfucker this is too much06:13
treachtilman: well, I'm not defending him, but there's nothing wrong with that, is there?06:13
tilmanrugek: are you aware that the ion3 guy is a psychopath?06:13
aonthat's what's wrong there06:13
tilmantreach: 6 weeks old =~ "seriously outdated" -- doesn't really compute, does it?06:14
treachtilman: well, outdatedness, doesn't neccessarily have to do with time IMO.06:14
aonehm, ever get06:15
tilmantreach: mmh, right.06:15
treachaon: I have no clue what you're going on about. :/06:15
aon i see06:15
aoni could explain, but i don't have problems with appearing to be entirely inconsistent, so i won't06:16
treachHm, ok, I'm happy we've resolved that then. :>06:17
tilmanA PKGBUILD is a derivate work of the packages it uses.06:19
tilmani'll stop now.06:19
treachyes, and a hammer is a derivative of the nail.06:20
treachespecially if you put something between the hammer and the nail.06:20
treacheg. a "dorn", if you know what that is.06:21
tilmanor a "thumb"06:21
tilmanmmh, i'm getting child memories from that thought06:21
treachhehe, well, that has no real effect on the nail.. :)06:21
* treach gets dictionary.06:22
treachah, "mandrel" :)06:22
treachcarpenters tools isn't my thing. :)06:23
tilmanmandrel   also: mandril [tech.]     der Dorn06:23
treachYeah, I guessed it was the same in german06:25
treachfor some reason. ;)06:25
tilmanisn't mandrill some sort of ape? :P06:26
treachman-drill? Now, this is going seriously astray imo...06:26
tilmanno, mandrill06:26
treachit's a "monkey"06:27
tilmani spent most of live thinking that ape==monkey06:28
treachheh, pray that you don't meet the librarian then. :P06:29
lennart_problem solved - I had a crappy layout installed which seemed to interfere with the new xkeyboard-config package06:53
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aonone thing i don't get about that ion discussion07:08
aonif he claims that a pkgbuild is a derivative work, why is he arguing that the naming changes they propose can't be made because it's not a derivative?07:08
aonoh well07:08
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rawthe installdirs vor includes of wxgtk are shit07:20
aoni guess you think it should be /usr/include/wx ?07:20
aonyou could also try using wx-config07:21
aoni'm not sure that the versions should be confused07:21
aonupgrading to 2.8 breaks all the two ports in opt that use it07:21
rawaon: and a lot more07:22
rawhonestly, no linker is ever gonna find  /usr/include/wx/some/obscure/dirs/with/no/apparent/functions/here/be/dragons/and/somewhere/even/wx/07:23
rawfor example, 'error: wx/setup.h not found'07:24
nipuLdear lord, it's begun.... lolcode implementations07:24
rawFound in /usr/ports/opt/wxgtk: /usr/lib/wx/include/gtk2-ansi-release-2.6/wx/setup.h07:24
rawsetup.h of wx is an include of wx of libs under user07:25
rawfor the gtk2-ansi-release-2.6 of course07:25
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rawsetup is expected to be in /usr/include/wx/wx07:31
raw                                               ^^^^ not a typo!07:31
rawnipuL: I'd say rotflmaocode implementations07:31
raw #error "No Target! You should use wx-config program for compilation flags!"07:33
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aonraw: i didn't quite understand but please file a bug with a patch07:44
aon...and why is a linker required to find the includes, anyway?07:45
aoni got the setup.h part07:45
rawerr I mean CFLAGS07:46
aonand the dir isn't quite that long07:46
aonit's /usr/include/wx-version/wx07:46
rawprt-get fsearch tells me otherwise07:46
aoneverything except setup.h is in the right place, it seems07:47
rawprograms using those includes are missing wx/foo.h07:47
aonand well, wx-config --cflags gives the right paths anyway07:47
aon'those includes', 'wx/foo.h'07:48
aonas said, please file a bug07:48
rawaon: the version is rather old anyway07:50
rawaon: I believe 2.8.x is current07:50
aonyes, and that's what i'm running07:50
aonbut fix everything that depends on 2.6 and i'll push it to opt, too07:51
rawwell, opt is 2.6.x07:51
rawaon: hnc did the job already07:59
tilmanaon: because it violates the trademark08:01
tilmani think08:01
aonyes, he did the absolutelu devastating job of bumping the version08:03
aonhowever, originally you complained about include locations08:03
rehabdollBig thanks from a new member here,i was fortunate enough to get invited to join here and even more fortunate to have joined during the FL period,sure i have built up a nice ratio buffer but it wont stop me from downloading and seeding all the great releases08:03
rehabdollstop typing when im about to middle-click on a link!08:04
RyoSrehabdoll: wtf?08:04
rehabdollyou insensitive clods!08:04
rawaon: it works with his version08:04
aonokay, good08:04
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rawI don't know what's the magic behind is version, I can't seem a difference08:05
rawI'm getting pimples because of this wx / gtk / python crap08:28
tilmanwhat exactly is failing to build?08:28
rawI'm still missing the moron who decides to bundle the worst framework and language to one insane application08:28
tilmani once used bittorrent's maketorrent wxgtk-python gui08:29
rawthat would probably interrupt the s/t-continuum08:29
rawnothing is failing to build08:29
rawit's just crap08:29
tilmani see08:30
rawit's like someone decided to throw all the evil on the world together08:30
rawTypeError: wx.Window, wx.Sizer, wx.Size, or (w,h) expected for item08:41
rawwhat's so wrong with C?08:42
tilmanit's mostly wx that sucks08:42
tilmannot python08:42
rawwell, most python gui applications I've seen are poorly written08:44
rawDon't know if that's because of the grafic frontends or python. The truth is somewhere in between.08:44
rawor most people cant write python08:45
ultra_hey, speaking of graphical frontends, I just made a GUI (C++/FLTK) Pkgfile generator :)09:17
thrice`gvim? :)09:18
ultra_thrice`: lol09:18
RyoSand then gvim :p09:18
ultra_what's pkgcreate? did someone beat me to this idea? :/09:19
thrice`prtcreate gives a template of a Pkgfile with common stuff filled in09:19
tilmani don't think there's a GUI version yet09:20
tilmanso you're the first to do that, ultra_09:20
ultra_yey :)09:20
tilmanoh, ion 20070608 is out09:21
tilmanrugek: you've got 28 days to update ion3 it seems09:21
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ultra_hmm, what window managers do you all use?09:23
ultra_heh, also my first time using all the gnu autotools to build it :)09:27
treachthere is no windowmanager that *all* use...09:27
ultra_raw: seen that so many times09:27
ultra_treach: well, what do you use?09:27
rawsorry, it's my first time :(09:27
tilmanraw: hehe09:28
treachdwm for now. usually fvwm.09:28
rawtreach: there is09:29
rawall uses his own window manager09:29
rawhe refuses to release the code though09:29
treachwouldn't that be 'Al'?09:29
rawtreach: Yeah Al L.09:31
rawhis nick is 'all'09:31
treachwindow managers are hard to digest, apparently. ;)09:31
rawyeah e17 is like eating at mcdonalds09:32
tilmanyou can enjoy it if you only have/use it seldomly?09:33
ultra_well... c'mon here, I want a good suggestion, sick and tired of flux and xfce09:34
tilmani like openbox09:34
treachwell, it depends on what you're looking for..09:34
treachratpoison or dwm will definitely be something different, at least. :)09:35
ultra_I've used ratpoison and wmii before09:35
ultra_certainly interesting :)09:35
ultra_but it just got annoying after a few days09:35
treachfvwm is fast and stable, you can pretty much turn it into anything.09:35
treachbut it takes a while to configure. :p09:36
ultra_but I'm not creative enough to come up with 'anything' :)09:36
ultra_and reading the book-sized man page would most likely drive me to suicide :)09:36
treachwell, then there's openbox, as tilman suggested, or just good old windowmaker.09:36
ultra_heh, I've liked windowmaker in the past09:37
ultra_hmmm, I could go try to config up openbox...09:37
treachanyways, gtg.09:38
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ultra_hmm... I hope this openbox wiki doesn't suck too much :)09:44
ultra_well, I sorta like openbox09:58
ultra_I only have one problem so far: WHERE THE FUCK IS THE DOCK IS CLAIMS TO HAVE? :)09:59
ultra_I think I better do some more rtfming...10:03
rawah well *box...10:41
rawlet me explain it this way10:41
raw[playing] John Miles - Rock Super Stars 2 - Now That The Magic Has Gone () 05:3910:41
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ultra_raw: ... what way of exploining it is that?11:41
ultra_heh, I quite like this openbox11:41
rawultra_: now, THAT'S your turn to figure out...11:41
ultra_... I give up.11:41
raw-100 points11:41
ultra_yey, I lose.11:42
rawsorry. better luck next time!11:43
ultra_hmm... I need fbpager...11:44
rawI have fbpager11:44
rawwanna trade?11:44
ultra_umm... sure... I'll trade you 1 internet dollar for it11:45
rawah no11:45
rawno internet dollars here11:45
ultra_Resources.hh:13: error: specialization of 'void FbTk::Resource<T>::setFromString(const char*) [with T = bool]' in different namespace11:45
ultra_fuck, fb pager failed to build :/11:45
ultra_fix it now raw!11:45
rawbut for 20 internet dollars I tell you a secret regarding fixing your problem11:45
* ultra_ sends raw 20 internet dollars11:46
rawok, but don't tell anybody else11:47
* raw sends his midget ninja army to RyoS 11:48
rawultra_: SSSSSH!11:48
ultra_so, why does the ebuild not patch that for me?11:49
ultra_oh shit, I said ebuild11:49
ultra_please kill me.11:49
* raw shrugs11:50
ultra_I'll use my shiny ass gui Pkgfile generator and make one that patches it for me ;)11:50
ultra_or... I could just hack the existing one :)11:50
ultra_but that's no fun11:50
ultra_heh, I just hacked han's ebuild to patch it.11:53
ultra_FUCK FUCK FUCK11:53
ultra_I did that twice11:53
ultra_stop talking about gentoo people :)11:53
ultra_damn developers who don't update their apps to work with modern gcc11:55
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ultra_grr... why don't... any of these pagers work... hmm... maybe it's cause I didn't config something :)12:10
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treachhmm, X is quite the battery sapper. :/15:40
treachanyone else who has been playing with powertop?15:41
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ssimonultra: oh noes, a wow player.20:27
ultraschniggie, lol I don't play, but the post was funny :)20:27
ultrafucking xchat20:27
ultraI hate it.20:27
ultrawhy did I bother to try psybnc20:28
ssimonirssi+screen for the win :)20:28
ultramy opinion exactly20:34
ultraxchat doesn't even fucking timestamp20:34
ultra... fixed that problem :)20:35
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Octal__hello everyone21:07
Octal__how is everyone doing today?21:08
ultrahi Octal__21:08
ultragood I suppose21:08
ultraarguing with some idiot who says rapidshare is better then torrents21:09
Octal__aruging with the internet; good job :P21:17
ultraI mean, what the fuck21:18
ultrarapidshare has half the content21:18
ultraand it's censored21:18
ultraand it's slow21:18
Octal__thats like internet2 or whatever21:19
ultrawell, they delete shit21:19
ultralots of it21:19
Octal__some things are understandable though21:19
Octal__like illegal stuff21:19
ultralol, that's exactly what we're using as an example21:20
ultramovie piracy :)21:20
Octal__but it's nice to get the stuff for free21:20
Octal__it's just not right21:20
Octal__but who cares if it's right?21:20
ultraprecisely :)21:20
ultrait's right if you think the GNU way :D21:20
ultrareverse engineering any proprietary software you have is the best thing you can do if you think the gnu way :D21:21
Octal__i asked this question earlier, and didn't get an answer21:22
ultrawhat's "this question"?21:23
Octal__the one that i was typing21:23
ultrawell, type it :D21:23
Octal__how should i change my /etc/rc.d/net file to also support eth1?21:23
Octal__because I use eth1 one my laptop for internet21:24
ultrahmm... sure, why not?21:24
rehabdolldoes your eth1 get its ip-address from dhcp?21:26
rehabdolladd dhcpcd eth1 in net if thats the case21:27
Octal__i'm not 100% sure21:28
Octal__but what would i use if it didn't?21:28
Octal__such as static ip?21:28
ultraOctal__, if you don't know, it's dhcp :)21:28
Octal__alright, let me try21:29
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Octal__i don't have a man page for dhcpcd on my live-cd21:32
Octal__should i use "dhcpcd eth1 on" ?21:32
Octal__and then "dhcpcd eth1 off" under "stop)"?21:33
clare_octal: try for man  dhcpcd  (very hard word to remember <grin>21:37
clare_oh dear you did try that. sorry21:38
Octal__i'll look for an online man page21:39
Octal__it doesn't say anything21:41
Octal__then how would i turn it off?21:41
clare_octal; apparently caling it with option -k. can you recieve email, if you send email to I will reply with a man page,21:45
Octal__i'll try the -k option21:47
pedjaOctal__: dhcpcd eth0 should suffice.dhcpcd -k eth0 for killing it.21:48
pedjaThen check /var/log/dhcpcd.log21:50
clare_and if anyone solves the problem of predicting which eth will be the wireless, please tell me, bye now,22:02
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