IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2007-06-28

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pitillogood morning01:17
tilmanmorning pitillo01:19
maxhmorning pitillo and tilman01:26
tilmanmorning maxh :D01:26
* tilman ponders crawling back to bed01:27
pitillohello maxh01:27
maxhhm. what is a chicken-and-egg problem?01:28
pitilloat least friday is near... and next week starts the intensive jornal :)01:28
pitillomaxh, what was first, chicken or egg?01:29
tilmanpitillo: intensive journal?01:29
tilmanmaxh: but, where did the egg come from?01:29
tilmanmaxh: surely there must have been a chicken that laid the egg :)01:30
maxhthe chicken :o01:30
tilmanwhere did the chicken come from?01:30
tilmanit must have come from an egg01:30
pitillotilman, half day... I don't know how can I translate it...01:30
tilmanin spanish?01:30
pitillojornada intensiva.... :)01:30
* maxh kills chicken and egg to make breakfast01:31
tilmansummer work time01:31
tilmanor something like that01:31
pitilloeasy translation... in summer, enterprises work only half day instead of all day01:31
pitillotilman, yeah, summer work time01:31
tilmanthat rocks :D01:31
maxhuhm. for how long do you have this?01:32
pitilloyeah... I hope all afternoons I can go to beach... too much hot here01:32
tilmanhow much % of your regular salary do you get during that time?01:32
pitillomaxh, since july to half september01:32
maxhwow. nice01:32
pitillotilman, the same like all the year01:32
maxhheard you had like 50 degrees down there01:33
maxhthat's pretty hot01:33
pitilloI work the same, but starting before and without stoping to eat.... now, I have 1 hour to eat and I enter here half hour after01:33
pitillo50º? brbrbrbr that is too hot01:33
pitillohere around 35-40º01:34
maxhstill hot01:34
maxhwe had 13 yesterday01:34
tilmanpitillo: btw, you cannot translate la jornada with 'the jornal'.01:34
pitillotrue. In this work at office doesn't matter, but working out it's really hard01:35
tilmanpitillo: that word doesn't exist, and it has nothing to do 'journal' either ;)01:35
tilmanexcept the origins of the word, hehe01:35
pitillotilman, ummm taking note. I used the translator and it used intensive day.... I kept my rules to translate day by "jornal". Better to use summer work time :)01:36
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nipuLi wish it was 40 here02:10
nipuLthe high temp here today was 3.502:11
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prologicnipuL, quit ya complaining :)02:23
prologicour turn to have summar soon enough :)02:23
maxhif only the water could become warm02:25
nipuLprologic: you live in brisbane...shut up02:25
prologicand you in where ?02:26
prologicno bloody wonder :)02:26
prologicyes that place is cold in winter02:26
prologicstanthorpe got snow a few weeks back02:27
Romster12C outside atm here.02:42
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prologicone of my boxes (data) seems to have died - suspect dead motherboard :/04:32
prologicthank for vmware-server - I put the machine's hdd on my desktop and am running it via a virtual machine till I get a new box for it04:32
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patroclo7does someone know why this morning my repo has been removed by portsdb? are there some errors in it which I do not see?06:09
* nipuL does the happy dance06:13
nipuLgot this pptp+radius server working06:13
nipuLjust need to sort out the accounting crap now06:14
sepenmail spam on the contrib ML06:49
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aonj^2: heh09:20
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Sourffor everybody take a look  SLiM Login Manager09:50
aonyou do realize that's developed by crux developers, do you?09:50
aonuh, *don't you09:50
SourfI guess09:52
aonwell, it is09:52
aonbut thanks for the tip :)09:52
Sourfit's only a alternative to who don't want use gdm and kdm ...09:52
Sourfthank you09:52
aonfor those of them who can't log into a terminal, anyway09:53
SourfI was looking for a login manager that no need a lot of dependen09:53
vektorigetty ;)09:54
aonthere's also xdm09:55
Sourfxdm .... but can I have a nice customized and nice grahics and ... others things09:56
aonyes, you can09:56
Sourflet me see in freshmeat09:56
Sourfone minute09:56
* vektori starts the timer.09:57
aonxdm was developed by Keith Packard shortly after he joined the X Consortium, primarily as a result of his frustration with trying to manually control X from an ASCII login environment.09:57
aonah yes, the frustration with trying to manually control X from an ASCII login environment...09:57
Sourfxdm is cool09:57
Sourfbut I don't like that box login ... it's so poor09:58
aonindeed, but you can customize it09:58
aonor actually s/indeed,//, it's the coolest thing ever09:58
vektoriaon: Indeed! Open a UNIX socket and speak X11 to it... *shudder*09:58
SourfAre saying do my on box login ?09:58
aonno, i can't see myself saying those exact words09:59
Sourfunderstood no problem :)09:59
Sourfaon has you made some software window with xml ? I don't know if it is possible without XUL10:00
Sourfabout XML I don't understand nothing10:01
aonare you talking about glade or something?10:01
Sourfvektori I understand ... but I'm so lazy to learn xml10:01
Sourfsmething without glade10:01
Sourfmanipulating the xml with c ... define the heigh and weigh of the window10:02
vektoriI don't see what XML has to do with windows unless you're trying to make a web application for Firefox or something.10:03
aonor use glade10:03
aonor have some evil third-party interpreter10:03
aonalthough glade and firefox are pretty evil too10:04
aonXML in general is10:04
Sourfit's that the answers that I was waiting for .... thank you   aon vektori10:04
prologicXML is not evil10:04
SourfI guess the same ... but if we  don't follow the default we are *&*10:04
aoni'm rather amazed about what passes as an answer nowadays10:04
aonprologic: well, i guess you really can't say that about any language10:05
prologicno you can't10:05
aonlike they don't go around eating babies and insulting old women10:06
prologicthey all have their pros and cons10:06
Sourfhey hey10:06
prologicand unique features10:06
prologicmake us :)10:06
prologicXML was designed to be human and machine readable markup language10:06
prologicihmo it does a pretty good job of that10:06
Sourfyou are fighting .... like a ... who born first ....  the egg or the ticken ?10:06
prologicand not terribly hard to parse/process10:07
aonalthough a) it's not readable, and b) it's not that easy to interpret either10:07
prologicthe chicken!10:07
prologiceveryone knows that :)10:07
prologicand the answer is 42!10:07
aonOur CEO also agreed that the answer is 42 yesterday.10:07
SourfI 'm not understand what are you talking about !10:08
prologicaon: becuase (I believe) a) a lot of develoeprs don't care about the human readabilty side of it and b) parses in general are crap - I like elemtnree now in python-2.510:08
prologicthe sax/dom parsers are terrible for instnace10:08
Sourfsome one like10:08
aonit's not really nice to write, either :)10:09
Sourfpython ... haskell .... smalltalk ... cobol ( believe ), C, D, lua, and go10:09
Sourfand others10:09
SourfI guess that everyone like a sintaxe kind10:09
aonprologic: i think british web radios need to pay per some estimate of listeners as they ask for a zipcode usually10:09
prologicif it passes though, it'll send them all broke10:10
prologicor make it too expensive to listen to10:10
prologicor make listening for free go away10:10
prologicit sucks cause I love Sky.fm10:10
aoni don't know how that goes here10:10
Sourfmake one :D10:11
prologicno that's not the point10:11
SourfI`m joking prologic10:11
prologicyou can't make a legit one without it costing you10:11
prologicand 15th july - it _WILL_ cost!10:11
* prologic plays chess10:12
aonhere it's 12% of total income of the station, minimum 50e/month if there's less than 25h/music per week and 100e/month if more10:12
aonfor web radios, that is10:12
Sourfexpensive I guess10:13
aonfor real radio 4.5-9.6% of revenue depending on the amount played10:13
aonbut you don't need to pay extra to have a web radio with the same content if you have a real radio station10:13
prologicand if this passes10:13
prologicit'll make the price go from 50e10:13
Sourfwhat would be today if the fsf and os not exist10:14
prologicto xx(e) * nn ** yy10:14
prologicwhere xx is the price per song, nn the number of times it's been listened to10:14
prologicand yy the number of listeners10:14
Sourfprologic use another station10:14
prologicthe price would start to be exponential from what I can tell10:14
aonyeah, that'll probably make quite a lot10:14
prologicSourf, you don't get it10:14
aondepending on what the cost of one song is, of course10:15
Sourfwill be like this now ?10:15
prologicbut even if it's a small amount per "performance"10:15
prologicit will all add up10:15
prologicmaking it hard to exist as a business10:15
prologictry the maths on it10:15
prologicSourf, Internet Radio is about to be wipred out becuase of stupid idiotic politiians in the USA10:16
prologicSourf, by increasing royalty rates to prices and policies that will prevent most if not all Internet Radios to cease to exist.10:16
Sourfappear that use is Geor. Bush and Microsoft that domain everything ...... I don`m like this .... I have a friend that have came live here in my country/city and was saying what is happenning there10:17
Sourfcomunist that usa governm is trying10:18
prologicbush and microsoft can go to hell10:18
prologicquite literally10:18
prologicyes I hope this is logged and archived by google!10:18
SourfI will never will speak against the people like another country how do someone ... This govern ... globalization want everytime one vs others10:19
prologicI will10:20
prologicpeople and beurocrats are taking globalization the wrong way10:20
SourfUntil I was saying to him what my friend .. Sammy is doing here ... if he was crazy to do that10:20
Sourfprologic ... exist good peoples yeat10:20
Sourfprologi you are with the hate of god in your blood mann ! Go relax and code10:21
Sourfuse your hand ...lol10:21
prologicumm no actually10:21
prologicI love God :)10:21
Sourfme too10:21
prologicshoosh I'm playing chess!10:22
prologicyo'll make me loose!10:22
prologicQueen, Bishop and Rook down <-- Black10:26
prologicno wait10:27
prologicBlack's down: pawn, queen, rook10:27
prologicwhite's down: queen, bishop, knight10:27
prologicI"m white :)10:27
prologicyay I'm +310:28
prologichmm I need to find a way to play a dvd without a dvdrom :)10:34
prologicmy dead data box's hdd is now being used by what was my dvdrom's hdd cable :/10:34
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Sourfdinner later10:57
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*** sets mode: +oooo jaeger tilman jdolan vektori11:02
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prologichmm this player I'm playing11:25
prologichas lost the plot :)11:25
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sepenhas lost gnu the plot¿11:52
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jjpkMy money is on RIAA and big business have lobbied the US government to pass bogus legislation on net radio.12:36
jjpkGovernment supported monopoly is what we will see.12:36
jjpkInterestingly enough, big business and fascism go hand in hand.12:40
teK_could someone do  me a favour and download this testfile (~50MB) and tell about the line's saturation please12:42
rawtalking about facism and big companys:
rawdon't buy intel.12:53
rawI always said that.12:54
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j^2aon: hey man, if my Swap:   746980k total,   672348k used,    74632k free,     3524k cached i need more ram right?14:01
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aonprobably, yeah14:01
j^2and my load averge is :  load average: 2.24, 1.98, 0.9914:02
j^2i'm beating the crap out of this machine right?14:02
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maxhthe load isn't that high14:10
aonand it doesn't tell that much anyway14:10
aonwhat does top say?14:10
aonlike, the cpu line14:10
j^2it's a ram issue it seems14:10
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RedShiftj^2: how much memory do you have and what are you doing with it?14:26
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namenloshi, can anyone offer me a mysql source package, which's md5sum is valid?14:50
namenlosi think i've tried the 5th source from, but the md5sum did never match...14:51
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namenlosRedShift: thx, but somehow i can't see a matching version.14:55
namenlosbut nevermind, i think, the 6th version now works ;)14:56
RedShiftwhat version do you need?14:56
namenlosthe md5sum now matched. thx.14:56
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RedShiftI can't find the src of that not on that mirror14:57
RedShiftthat's strange14:57
namenlosweird, that so many tarballs were corrupted..14:57
RedShiftmaybe something wrong with your internet connection?14:57
namenlosmaybe the goverment wanted to hack me ;)14:58
jjpkSomeone else complained about mysql as well earlier.14:58
namenlosno, the connection is fine afaik14:58
RedShiftnamenlos: where do you live?14:58
namenlosi complained a while ago...14:58
jjpkBesides, if the master copy was corrupted, cobine that with automated mirroring.14:58
namenlosno, was a joke. i live in austria, the german goverment want to do such things..14:59
namenlosjjpk: was my thought, too14:59
* treach cast "ressurect gestapo"14:59
jjpkStripping your social freedoms for perceived security is a joke.15:00
namenlostreach: true, there where many complains about this move of the state/goverment...15:00
jjpkWhenever you hear your government tell you it's for your own good, don't believe it.15:00
treachnamenlos: I can understand that.15:00
jjpkOn that note, feel free to ignore government issued news or warnings.15:01
namenlosme, too, but i think, my goverment thinks about such a approach, too15:01
RedShiftnever trust your government15:01
treach"software pirates supports terrorism" ;D15:01
teK_and downloading communism!1!11!15:01
treachwell, I guess you could call M$ "organised crime", so they aren't totally wrong.. :P15:02
jjpkI remember that cartoon.15:02
jjpktreach: I would argue for that.15:02
treachhard not to make the case.15:02
jjpkThey have abusive and non-comeptitive policies, and have US gov backing.15:02
treachgov. backing isn't necessary.15:02
jjpkIt is in their interest.15:03
jjpkTaxes you see.15:03
treachbut to consistently break the law for profit through various rackets *is* organised crime.15:03
treachit's just that they don't get persecuted for some reason.15:03
jjpkM$ and the us gov are getting paid.15:04
jjpkWhy shoot your own foot?15:04
RedShiftbecause we enjoy the pain?15:05
RedShiftwhat doesn't kill you only makes you stronger?15:05
treachmmh, I'm all for treating the bastards as the criminals they are. If someone starts whining, worse for them.15:06
jjpkM$ has enough resources to hire spineless lawyers, lobby (bribe) governments.15:06
aonthere are spineful lawyers?15:06
treachseems like spineless people is an unlimited resource. :/15:06
treachaon: yes.15:07
RedShiftI've never heard MS in bribing people15:07
jjpkAnything for a quick buck.15:07
RedShiftthey may do alot of stuff15:07
RedShiftbut I don't believe they would bribe anyone15:07
jjpkThey might have not been caught, who knows.15:07
treachRedShift: of course they do.15:07
RedShiftnah I don't believe that15:07
treachit's called "Campain contributions"15:07
jjpk= bribes and lobbying15:07
RedShiftwell if you were a big company, wouldn't you do that too? :-)15:08
jjpkYou pay local politicians to push your ideals.15:08
RedShiftwell corruption is not really a problem here15:08
treacharen't you belgian?15:08
RedShiftmost of the time it gets found out and usually it's not big crimes15:08
jjpkCorruption is everywhere.15:09
treachthe EU is almost as big a scam as the us congress.15:09
RedShiftjjpk: yes it's true, but at least here it's tollerable15:09
aontolerable corruption? ;)15:09
RedShifthey I said nothing about the EU15:09
aonthat means you must be either on the receiving or giving end15:09
jjpktolerable corruption is hypocrisy with a smile.15:09
treachthose guys are parasiting in your capital, right+15:10
treachs +/?15:10
RedShiftno, tolerable corruption as in, they're not hurting anyone, and it's only on a small scale15:10
treach"många bäckar små, gör snart en stor å".15:10
RedShiftsee it like mowing somebody's lawn and not report it to the taxes you got 20 euro for it or something :-)15:10
aonthat's how much mowing a lawn costs these days? :-O15:11
RedShiftit was per example15:11
treachthat's not corruption, at most it's tax evasion.15:11
aonwhatever, income tax should be removed anyway :)15:11
jjpkI think there should only be VAT and corporate income taxes.15:11
jjpkYou would widen the tax base significantly.15:11
RedShiftit was by example15:12
aonhow about heritage tax?15:12
RedShifta little bit of black money can never do anyone harm15:12
treachjjpk: quite unfar to people with low incomes though.15:12
jjpkaon: should be removed.15:12
aonalthough i guess the ones who actually pay a lot of that know how to evade that15:12
aon*would pay15:12
jjpkRich people have their ways around taxes.15:12
jjpkMuch of the tax burden on the middle class btw.15:12
jjpkThe wealthy have their resources stashed away in tax havens, and there are plenty of accounting tricks.15:13
aonit's also strange that companies have to pay communal tax (or something) which goes to the church15:14
jjpk2) dividends are taxed much lower than wage work, many times they even have a large tax free threshold.15:14
RedShiftaon: what the hell, what country is that?15:14
aonof course, you need to pay the church tax from your income, too, if you happen to be a member15:14
aonsome 80ish % are15:14
jjpkFinland might be secular, but it has two state sponsored religions.15:15
jjpkThey have the right to tax you. :p15:15
RedShiftI would never pay for any religious institutions15:15
aonand some others get sponsored indirectly (islam :))15:15
RedShiftunfortunatly my taxes do :-(15:15
namenlosanyone has a clue why the ports of this p.*7 guy where deleted from the portdb?15:15
aonthe what now?15:16
treachit was considered there was enough problems with the p5* ones? ;)15:16
namenlos?? i'm sorry, i dont remember his correct name..15:17
aoni don't remember any removals except han from contrib15:17
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aonand my own, ofc15:17
aonperhaps he requested it?15:17
namenlosno, in the morning he was complaining about it :)15:18
jjpkI thought han removed his ports himself.15:18
teK_:se noai15:18
teK_a13:06 < patroclo7> does someone know why this morning my repo has been removed by portsdb? are there some errors in it which I do not see?:se ai15:18
aon14:06 < patroclo7> does someone know why this morning my repo http://www.patrocl15:18 has been removed by portsdb? are there some errors i15:18
aonn it which I do not see?15:18
aon...yeah :)15:18
aonjjpk: well, someone would've done it sooner or later unless he started playing nice15:18
jjpkoh that.15:19
treachhe must have an highway on ramp near his house.15:20
namenloshan, or patcolo7?15:20
treachtake a guess.15:20
teK_there's no need for ramps in the netherlands15:20
jjpktreach: what you said about the low income people suffering, VAT applies to the value of a good or a service.15:20
treachjjpk: indeed.15:21
jjpkSet it at a reasonable level, 5%, then it would not do much impact.15:21
jjpkThis would imply a complete liberalization and removal of the welfare state though.15:21
aonwas just about to ask :)15:21
treachthey are still going to spend a lot more of their disposable income on taxes than rich people.15:21
treachie, the poor pay for the rich.15:22
jjpkHowever, there is no reason why people could not form their own co-ops to serve former government actions.15:22
aonprogressive VAT? :)15:22
jjpkUnnecessarily complex.15:22
treachaon: that sounds ... complicated. :D15:22
aon"hello, i'd like to purchase this piece of gum" "ok, just let me phone the tax office and check your income details"15:22
treachindeed. :D15:23
jjpkI take there is no privacy :D15:23
aonwell, the police can already do it, and i don't really trust them either :)15:23
treachyou income details is already public. at least here.15:23
aonyeah, indeed they are15:24
jjpkSame here.15:24
aoniirc there's some service where you can send a license plate number and get the tax details of the owner :)15:24
jjpkFinns turn green of envy, I suppose it is supposed to enforce "equality".15:24
treachheh, I like your speeding tickes. :D15:25
* treach wrestles with a cat that wants to be in his lap15:25
jjpkaon: police or government should never be trusted anyway.15:26
jjpkHmm. Lost the source, but there was a recent article that showed average purchasing power by EU nations.15:29
jjpkFinland was more or less at the bottom.15:29
jjpkHigh income taxes, high VAT, certain items are government monopolized meaning they set the prices however they wish.15:30
jjpkNo real wonder why the rich have moved their money out.15:30
treachthat argument have a few holes doesn't it..?15:31
treach"government monopolized meaning they set the prices however.." it's not like privatizing those things will make them any cheaper. Rather the other way around.15:32
jjpkThe mentality here does not work too well either.15:33
jjpkWe might have 3 major telecoms, but they don't engage in serious price wars.15:33
treachjjpk: you could make a study of the deregulation of the swedish electricty market..15:33
RedShiftthere should be some basic services provided by the government15:33
RedShiftthings like power and transportation, I find that too risky to put in private hands15:34
jjpkIf there were true competition, several providers, then you would see benefits.15:34
treachjjpk: no, you will se an oligopoly form.15:34
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jjpkPrivatize something, but ensure it falls into certain hands and without much / any competition, you won't see changes for the better.15:34
treachand even higher prices than during the old, regulated monopoly.15:34
jjpktreach: oligopoly is still a monopoly in spirit, except it has more than 1 player.15:36
jjpkThis time, you have the players agreeing and setting things themselves.15:36
treachexactly my point. but it usually escapes regulations.15:36
jjpkThey are not competing against each other, at least not in practice.15:36
treachwhile a true monopoly usually gets some restrictions.15:37
jjpkNot really. The restrictions apply to potential entrants, not the establishment ;)15:37
treachI'm refering to things like "you can't charge more than this sum, wich has been found reasonable by other people".15:38
treachthe monopoly doesn't get to set it's prices as they please.15:38
jjpkAh ok, now I understand what you meant.15:39
jjpkPrice controls.15:39
treachwhile if you have an oligopoly, the price is only limited by how much the players think they can gouge the customers.15:39
jjpkThe beauty of collusion ;)15:40
treach(yes, I know this is called "a cartell" however, it's *very* hard to prove and detect, usually.)15:40
jjpkCertainly. The finnish lumber industry has such tendencies.15:41
jjpkHard to prove and they would never get caught admitting.15:42
treachoil, electricity, lumber whatever.15:42
treachthe type of good doesn't matter.15:42
treachthe recipe is "few, big players, and a lot of possible profit".15:42
jjpkLocking in customers.15:43
jjpkThis also slows progress down.15:43
treachof course.15:43
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treachbanks is another good example.15:43
jjpkExactly. A few big international players have it all.15:44
treachusually no point in switchin, because you usually won't get a better deal somwhere else.15:44
jjpkThere is always the fine print.15:44
jjpkIt might look like a better deal, until you read the clauses :p15:45
treachaye. "So tell me please, won't you sign the dotted line?" :/15:45
jjpk"I don't have a choice, do I?" :s15:46
jjpkno. muhaha15:49
treach"the check is in the mail, would I lie to you?" ;)15:49
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prologicman load balancing is hard :/16:05
RedShiftprologic: how so?16:05
RedShiftwhat are you trying to loadbalance?16:05
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treachanother peeping tom :P16:07
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thrice`is sip out ?20:45
jaegerhe's on vacation20:45
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nipuL'extended' vacation23:29

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