IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2007-07-15

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treachwaiting is no idea, if you've got a question or something. This is about as much action you'll get on a sunday.03:58
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DarkNekros_hi you @ll !!;-)04:27
tilmangood morning04:28
treach"morning"? :D04:31
tilmanit's AM04:34
tilmanso, morning04:34
treachno, not really. I just means it's before the sun has reached zenith.04:35
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tilmandoes anybody use cpio?05:01
tilmanis it popular or something?05:01
tilmani'm just wondering why it's in core ;D05:01
jjpktar is king these days.05:05
jjpkcpio works, but I assume people think it is an ancient relic more than anything.05:06
tilmanthought so as well05:06
jjpkI have tested it for creating backups.05:07
jjpkSomewhat odd because you have to use another program to select which files you want in the archive. :p05:08
jjpkfind dir | cpio -o > archive.cpio05:08
tilmanthe cpio manpage is awesome05:09
jjpk*find dir -print actually.05:09
tilmantexinfo is cool, but some dumb man page would be nice >:05:09
treachcpio is needed for rpms iirc.05:10
nipuLessential to crux then05:12
jjpkI skipped every rpm based distribution back when I started.05:12
jjpkJust keep cpio where it is imo.05:12
tilmantreach is right05:13
tilmanand since rpm2targz is in core, cpio needs to be there, too05:13
treachjjpk: considering for instance that ooo is only distributed as rpms nowadays..05:14
jjpkApparently it is difficult for ooo to fathom using .tar.gz. :|05:15
treachI guess a lot of other, mostly proprietary, software is that way.05:15
treachooo used to have a tar.gz installer. But they ceased doing that, for some reason.05:16
treachWhy is a bit of a mystery, since I doubt you add rpms to solaris. :p05:17
jjpkNot natively anyway.05:18
jjpkred hat/fedora = linux to ooo based on their release formats.05:18
treach+ SuSE, Mandriva.05:19
jjpkactually, scrap that. rpm = official linux package format. :p05:19
treachas stupid as it is, yes.05:19
treachone of the points where lsb sucks.05:20
jjpkI dare say .tar.gz is much more universal.05:20
jjpkThey are thinking that popularity makes it THE de-facto standard.05:20
treachwell, that's true isn't it?05:20
jjpkdebian based distributions are popular as well.05:21
treachbut not nearly as big, and above all not when the "standard" was set.05:21
treachsince it pre-dates ubuntu, iirc.05:21
jjpkGood point.05:22
treachalso, the lsb was created by *drumroll* some major companies, guess how well represented debian was at those meetings.. :>05:22
jjpkI can imagine. :p05:23
jjpkEspecially today debian is more of a non-governmental organization compared to the other big distributions.05:23
treachdebian is a burocracy.05:24
jjpkI'm sure the others are so as well. The main difference is the role of profit.05:25
treachI don't know, debian seems to take the cake in that regard.05:25
treachI think they have a comitte for f*ing everything.05:25
jjpkYeah it does look like they do.05:26
jjpkIdeals are grand, but they really have bogged it all down into bureaucrat hell.05:26
jjpkSafeguard mechanisms to safeguard mechanisms. :>05:26
treachGotta keep the producers of red tape happy.05:27
jjpkI give them an A+ for effort :)05:28
jjpkouch. Apple bought the company that makes CUPS05:31
treachI don't think that exists, E-Cups is the biggest I know of. ;)05:32
tilmanok, what about iPrint?05:33
treachalready taken iirc.05:33
treachyeah, novell strikes again. :>05:33
rxitilman: icup05:34
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treachI don't care, really, as long as they don't encourage closed drivers only workable on OSX. :/05:36
rxiwell at the end of the day they have to turn it into a profit so im sure the status quo wont be maintained05:37
treachAt the end of the day, if you can't make money without trying to screw people over, you're dead.05:38
jjpkThe cornerstone of for-profit business, someone gets taken for a ride.05:39
jjpkNow let's see if someone decides to fork the code.05:39
treachthat's kind of the problem. If they start to encourage closed drivers, there's really no point in forking. :/05:42
rxitreach: where there is a will theres a way05:42
treachsure, reverse engineering printer drivers. That sounds like a huge amount of fun. :s05:43
rxiof course .. but since hp is still pretty well commited to open source (unix, linux, etc..) im not too concerned at this point05:44
treachhp is only committed to selling $$$$ printer ink. :/05:45
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rxiugh dont get me started on that05:46
tilmancups is *the* printing system for linux today, right?05:46
jjpkThat is their income. Those printers are quite cheap now.05:46
treachtilman: yeah.05:46
tilmanif apple fucks it up, novell or redhat will come to the rescue05:46
tilmanor canonical05:46
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treachhmm, they'll probably have to compete with the bribes to the manufacturers then.05:47
jjpkaka cost of doing business.05:49
treachPresumeably the only thing that's workable is buying ps printers, consistently.05:49
treach"No postscrip? Sorry, no business."05:50
rximost laser printers suport postcript05:54
tilmanhome users often like color05:54
tilmancolor laser printers are insanely expensive05:54
tilmanno go05:54
tilmanoften :]05:54
rxitilman: $599aud?05:55
tilmanhow much is that in real money/05:55
tilmanif $homeuser can get a ink printer for 50 eur and cartridges for 5-10 eur, he probably won't shell out $599aud for a color laser05:56
tilmanthat's canon, not hp05:56
rxiindeed .. but no one is forcing you to buy a printer05:57
jjpkThe catholic church sex abuse scandal just never stops:
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teK500 peolpe, "respect" ..06:00
jjpk600 million and they claim it's not about money. wtf? :D06:00
rxijjpk: its called "healing"06:00
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treachcolor laserjets are not as expensive as you might think, especially not when you factor in the ink..06:03
nipuLalso laser printers tend to last forever06:04
treachink is often 30E or more here a peice, and it usually don't last long. :/06:04
nipuLunlike inkjets which you need to replase every 2 weeks06:04
rxinipuL: decent ones do06:04
tilmantreach: i didn't mean official refill cartridges06:05
tilmantreach: those cost a fortune here too :)06:05
nipuLespon and brother ink is pretty cheap06:05
nipuLhehe with the cheaper canon printers it's almosta s cost effective to throw the printer out and buy a new one when you run out of ink06:06
rxileast they make good printers06:07
tilmanwindows gdi printers != "good" :(06:08
tilmantoo bad windows users don't care06:08
rxitilman: compared to lexmark, epson, brother they are06:08
dysse:/topic #crux06:08
nipuLwho's this guy?06:10
treachsome newcomer who doesn't know this place. :)06:11
treachno, he's dane.06:11
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treachno, I doubt that.06:12
tilmandon't scare the danes away06:12
nipuLi'm part danish06:12
nipuLmmmm danish06:12
rxi*takes a bite of nipuL*06:13
treachsome guy who takes himself quite serious apparently.06:13
nipuLtreach: do you work for channel 10?06:13
rxilol i was thinking the same thing06:13
treachlike I'm going to look at somethingt that ends with "pung".. :s06:14
rxitreach: wasnt it you who linked a tinyurl earluer :P06:15
tilmantreach: hahaha06:16
treachsure, but I don't do that to embaress people.06:16
nipuLwell that's all you get until youtube starts permalinking06:16
treachI don't really get the connection, except for the *seriously* part. :/06:19
treachI must be humor-impaired. -(:|06:19
rxitreach: that is the connection06:20
treachwell, there's no connection, since I was just correcting my momentarily fucked up grammar.06:20
treachtilman: btw, about ink refilling, how many *normal* users do you think do that? And even so, it's more expensive than lasers, by far.06:22
tilmana) dunno06:23
tilmanb) oh?06:23
tilmani have no idea what those toner cartridges cost06:23
rxiranging from 2,000 pages to 10,000 pages06:23
tilmanusd would be more helpful06:24
rxii dunno maybe 50-15006:25
treachsomething like 80E for 8.5 k pages.06:25
nipuLi think the aud is at about 85c atm06:25
rawtilman: an euro is approximately 1,5 aud06:26
rawtilman: the difference between usd and aud is about 20 cent06:27
tilmanepdfview/poppler really sucks for some pdfs07:00
tilmanprobably related to the fonts used07:00
treachyes, I wish they would fix that. :/07:03
treachanyway -> going out, afk07:03
rawepdfviews main problem is it's instability07:15
rawit has a run time aequivalent to Rg's half-life07:16
tilmanif you don't use pgup/pgdown it's stable for me07:49
rawit even crashes when I switch windows07:50
rawor resize windows07:50
tilmanyou might want to report that07:51
rawyeah I might07:52
tilmani forgot, you're lazy07:52
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rxiwell thats the last time i do a sysup08:23
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Romsternot to mention inkjets can clog up the printhead if not used oftern enougth, where lasers don't have a problem sitting for a long time not printing.08:54
Romsterrxi, sounds like you didn't do a sysup in a long time, do it more oftern :P08:54
rxiRomster: yeah had like 30 things to do08:55
rxiprobably should do a kernel upgrade soon too08:55
Romsteri've not had anymore than about 15 at once.08:55
rxii didnt do any for about a month08:55
Romsteri do sometimes put off xorg updates as it involves exiting xorg then restarting xorg.08:56
Romsterevery few days i do.08:56
* Romster runs ck4up08:56
Romsteruseall lineup is ck4up update anything thats new then ports -u..08:57
Romsteri haven't touched the kernel in ages.08:58
rxii used to do every version08:58
rxibut now im too lazy08:58
Romsteri only do it now if there is a need too.08:59
Romsterlike i'm on 2.6.17 branch still lol.08:59
Romsterlol your more recent than mine.
Romsteri've been tempted to try the new kernel..09:00
rxihehe only cos 2.3 had as default09:00
Romsterhow many times is e2fsprogs gonna be updated...09:01
rxi*glares at opera*09:04
Romsterhmm time to cook something to eat.09:06
rxibit late isnt it?09:06
Romsternah i naped from 7pm to 11pm :P09:07
Romsteri've sleept all odd hours.09:07
* rxi ponders staying up to watch the rest of le tour or go to bed09:08
Romsterheh i've been watching that too.09:08
* Romster used to be a bike racer myself.09:08
Romsteri got trophys too :P09:08
tilmanRomster: did you do epo, too? ;)09:09
rxiRomster: i hope you didnt get caught up in operation puerto too :P09:10
rxiseems every other rider has been09:10
Romstersilly people :P09:10
Romsternah not me.09:11
Romsteri still got my old racing license its expired long ago though.09:11
rxii enjoy watching it and the odd moutain bike ride09:12
Romsteraustralian cycling federation09:12
rxinot much of a road racer09:12
rxitoo much effort :P09:12
Romsteri was doing 70-90Km races on the road.09:12
Romsterhad to keep training alot though09:12
Romstermy fastist downhill speed got to 76.8Kmh, i could of pushed it more but that was dangerious as it was.09:14
Romsteri've heard others going faster than that and i dunno how they can be stable on the road.09:14
rxion road tires it shouldnt be too bad09:15
Romsteryeah my problem was my hardist gear wasn't hard enougth09:15
Romsterso i got a bit of a wobble pusing it, i was spinning in top gear lol09:15
Romster48:14 sprocket ratio09:16
rxii dont know what that is09:16
Romsteri should of put on a 52 on the front :P09:16
Romstersprocket ratio09:16
rxidoesnt mean anything to me09:17
Romsterfront chainwheel : rear cluster09:17
Romster48*14 /  wheel diameter gives ya a table for diferent sized wheels.09:17
Romsterfor the gear ratios, so ya could cmopare it to other bikes/09:18
rxiahh k09:18
Romsteranyhoo i'm getting dinner cooking.09:18
treachfastest, hardest. ;)09:19
treachtilman: can we plead for some further development on rakt? ;)09:20
tilmansure you can plead09:30
treachI supposed you'd say something like that. :p09:30
surroundereek, 76,8kmh on a bike, I'd shit my pants09:31
tilmanwhy did he even say kmh?09:32
tilmaninstead of mph or somesuch?09:32 is metric afaik09:33
rxiwhy would he say mhp09:33
treachmhp = milihorsepowers? ;D09:33
treachmircomachines ftw. :p09:33
rxitilman: you seriously need a currency/unit converter bot09:34
tilmanjust wondering09:34
treachtilman: yeah, I think so. One moment...09:34
tilmanrxi: are you metric?09:34
tilmanbatshit insane09:34
rxihave been since the 60's09:34
tilmanbut you're driving on the wrong side, right?09:35
loupgaroublondsurrounder, 76kmh on a bike would be such a thrill, and you know it09:35
rxitilman: yeah09:35
Romstersurrounder, yeah it was a hair raising eppeareance.09:36
rxiRomster: lol09:37
Romster1mile = 1.6093kilometers you do the math tilman :P09:37
Romsterimperial is so behind the times.09:37
Romsterrxi, thought it was 1977 australia went to metric?09:38
rxiRomster: yeah thats probably right09:38
rximy history at 12:31am isnt too good :P09:38
Romstersame year they stoped using pennys and dollwer and cents came out, and i was born that year too.09:39
Romsterah hehe09:39
Romster12:40am here O_o09:39
rxi36 here09:39
Romstersomeone's time is not right.09:39
rximake that 39\09:40
rxisomeones time is wrong :P09:40
Romster12:39 on my mobile and thats synced..09:40
Romsteryour runninga bit slow09:40
rxii just did an ntpdate09:40
surrounderloupgaroublond: I'd rather go 180 km/h on a motorcycle09:43
treachtilman: I can't find it now, but I have a picture somewhere from australia, some were in the desert featuring a sign saying "Emergency phone 174km" or so. :)09:43
rxiRomster: michael rogers is abandoning :(09:43
surroundertreach: lol09:43
loupgaroublondsurrounder, idfd09:43
tilmantreach: okay, i believe it09:43
Romstersurrounder, lol09:43
surrounderloupgaroublond: did that a few months back, overtaking cars with 180 km/h, I was on the backseat09:44
loupgaroublondsurrounder, lucky bastadr :)09:44
rxi /o\09:45
Romsterrxi, damn09:45
Romsterrxi, still got other riders on the on T-Mobile Team09:46
rxiRomster: im a mcewan, evans supporter09:46
rxiRomster: 3 t mobile are gone09:47
Romsterchecking on food.09:51
* Romster goes to make coffee :P10:43
rxitime for bed methinks10:50
tilmani don't get how anyone can watch le tour and enjoy it10:51
tilmanit's sooooo boring10:51
* Romster goes to watch last 3 laps of MotoGP10:55
Romstertilman, its not too bad if ya into bikes10:55
Romsteri do admint it can be boring at times though, more fun racing than to watch it.10:56
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rehabdollno mountainstage is ever boring13:44
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nick125Afternoon (or whatever it is on your part of the world) everyone17:40
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jaeger-good afternoon to you as well17:51
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