IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2007-07-26

Romsterhi everyone00:40
Romsterwhats the best place to put an alias? in /etc/profile ?00:40
nipuLdepends00:40
Romsteralias isn't static between reboots?00:41
Romstersetxkbmap for dvork/qwerty switching.00:41
Romsterdvorak*00:41
nipuLif it's for setxkbmap shouldn't you put that in your X init scripts00:42
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nipuLseems pointless to do it for a shell00:42
Romsterhmm xinit scripts sounds like an idea than profile..00:44
pitillogood morning00:47
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DarkNekroshi you all ;)01:56
DarkNekrosgood morning01:56
sepenheyo02:01
anrykomorning02:46
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treachwoha.. "[Open source is] going to help us grow our market share, help us become more nimble in the way we deliver our BSM strategy, and deliver beyond BMC's direct customer base"05:29
treachI'm very happy they told us it's supposed to be interpreted as "Business Service Management" a bit up.05:30
RedShifttreach: what company?05:30
RedShiftmicrosoft? :D05:30
treachno, BMC, as stated in the quote05:30
RedShiftah05:30
RedShiftI don't know that company05:30
treachme neither, and I'm not sure I'd want to.05:31
patroclo7abuse of acronyms is a bad symptom05:31
treachIf you've got a BSM strategy, I'm going to stay away, that's for sure.05:32
tilmanhey ho05:32
treachyo05:32
patroclo7Beyond Sado Maso05:32
treachbondage sado mas05:32
RedShiftlol05:33
tilmantreach: don't worry, that's bdsm afaik ;p05:33
RedShiftbondage is fun05:33
treachah.05:33
RedShiftfor the one doing the bondage :D05:33
RedShift"suffer you piece of tiny human!"05:34
treachtilman: I'm not really into those things, so I wouldn't know. ;)05:34
RedShift(I'm just joking :-))05:34
tilman:D05:35
RedShiftman I love bind05:40
treachsure you were joking?05:40
RedShiftyes05:40
RedShiftwith bind I mean ISC bind ;-)05:40
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nipuL:\ is gimp not working for anyone else?06:51
mike_kRomster: distcc wants to write inside /var/empty (if no DISTCC_DIR was specifyed). The port also contains an empty /usr/share directory07:22
namenloshi, what do you use to format your code, you get out of a code generator? like perltidy, or xmllint --format ?07:38
namenlosto be more precise: i want to format java code.07:38
tilman==07:38
tilman^^^ that's a vim command :)07:38
namenlosnow, vim is full of suprises.07:39
namenlosthanks tilman07:39
tilmanyw07:39
vektorinamenlos: Eclipse has a nice reformat function which works for me.07:42
namenlosvektori: thanks. the one from eclipse i know already. i was looking for a method to do this without copying the file into a java project...07:53
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Romstermike_k, eh i got export CCACHE_DIR='/var/cache/ccache' in pkgmk.conf07:56
Romsteri should amend the README07:56
mike_kyep07:56
mike_kerr, DISTCC_*07:57
Romsteroops..07:57
Romsteryeah nearly the same.. bbs dinner cooking then i'll amend that.07:58
j^2morning all08:16
Romsterhi j^208:17
j^2hey Romster08:17
thrice`hi j^208:17
rxievenin j^208:18
tilmanthe openbox developer is less than awesome08:18
tilmanso she added a new config option08:18
tilmanand the default value is new behaviour08:18
tilmanrather than old08:18
tilmanhow lovely stupid is that?08:18
j^2hey thrice` rxi08:18
j^2tilman: sounds like a paradime switch ;)08:19
thrice`heh08:19
thrice`switch to fluxbox :)08:20
tilmantilman@hammerfest [~] > ports -l|grep flux08:20
tilmantilman@hammerfest [~] >08:20
tilmanNo.08:20
tilman:D08:20
thrice`heh08:20
thrice`so so sad08:20
tilmanthrice`: do you have a port for it?08:21
tilmanomg, they kind of messed up smart placement08:21
tilmanor maybe not08:22
thrice`tilman: no - i think I can't remember which repo's I use, but there are a few available08:22
tilmanrehabdoll has one08:22
thrice`actually, I think that's the port I copied over08:24
tilmanmmh, i also didn't fix the "junk files" in opt/openbox yet :(08:26
* Romster is anoyed at flac API changes08:34
tilmanmaybe 1.2 adds the old crap back in08:36
tilmannope, it doesnt08:38
Romstermike_k, ya don't need DISTCC_DIR if you use DISTCC_HOSTS08:39
Romsteri found junk files in core/kbd08:39
tilmantilman@hammerfest [~] > prtverify /usr/ports/core/kbd08:41
tilmantilman@hammerfest [~] >08:41
Romstereh where did i see it then *shrugs* i was doing alot of things at the time08:44
namenloshi, why does prtverify complain about *.bs files in perl modules?08:45
Romstertilman, ah it was automake08:46
tilmannamenlos: no idea, let's hilight vektori (he's a perl monk iirc)08:47
tilmanRomster: http://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux-devel/2006-August/001841.html08:47
Romsterhmm08:50
Romsterwell thats missleading on prtverify then08:50
Romstermaybe autmoake should have a README on that note.08:51
tilmandon't think so08:52
tilmanit's prtverify that needs the whitelist that i asked for08:52
tilmanbut imho this whole thing isn't that big an issue08:52
Romsterwell if there was one i'd not of said of junk files.08:53
Romsternah just something i picked up on.08:53
mike_kRomster: eh, a hour ago I was pretty shure about that... forget about it08:57
tilmanRomster: true, but i believe that autoconf/README and automake/README are the wrong place for documentation for this08:58
tilmanugh, i hate when i have to put autoconf/autoreconf calls in pkgfiles :'(09:00
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* treach hands tilman an Internet cookie. 09:05
treachfeel better? ;)09:06
Romsterwhats so bad about that?09:07
treachit's lame09:07
Romsterso is adding svn to Pkgfiles09:09
tilmanit's dangerous/fragile09:09
Romsternext you'll say using sed on configure is lame.09:09
tilmanspeaking of svn09:10
Romsterwell do the changes and tarball it as a snapshot and keep that bit out of the Pkgfile.09:10
tilmanjaeger: please re-consider using svn snapshots for opt/openal. the trunk is broken atm which renders the port useless (at least for one game that i tried it with, called spring)09:11
tilmanwhat?09:11
tilmanthe safe alternative would be to create a patch that also patches configure09:12
jaegerto be honest I haven't used openal in quite a while09:12
tilmanbut that blows up the patch to insanely figures09:12
sepenhmmm09:13
jaegerat the time I think trunk was the only option09:14
tilmanjaeger: what i suggest is that you make snapshots every $period yourself09:15
tilmanjaeger: upstream only has the ancient 0.0.8 release and svn :)09:15
tilmanresp :(09:15
jaegermore likely I'll drop the port09:15
tilmanno idea what the hell they are thinking09:15
tilmanjaeger: hehe,okay09:15
jaegerI'd guess they aren't actively developing09:15
jaegerpoking at the code, maybe, but not much else :)09:16
tilmani kind of assumed that icculus would hack away at it still09:16
jaegerI could be wrong, just a guess09:17
jaegeryou'd think they could release something... or at least have snapshots of their own up09:17
tilmanyeah :/09:17
jaegerhappen to know which recent revision worked?09:20
tilmani was lazy and used 0.0.809:21
tilmanjaeger: what made you go with svn trunk instead of 0.0.8 btw?09:21
jaegerprobably needed newer for something, not sure09:22
tilman*nod*09:22
jaegerscorched3d, perhaps09:22
j^2ahh yes scorchedearth how i miss playing you :-/09:23
jaegerguess I'll revert it to 0.0.8 for now09:24
jaegerand see if scorched3d will build09:25
* tilman ponders firing icculus an email and beg for another release09:26
treachhm, openbox depends on glitz, pango and cairo, but !gtk. That's rare.09:28
tilmanit uses pango for font rendering09:28
tilmanwhich uses cairo09:28
tilmanwhich uses glitz09:28
tilman:x09:28
treachheh09:29
jaegeropenal's Linux_Spec1-0 tag might be useful09:29
jaegerI'll mess with it09:29
tilmanthanks jaeger09:29
jaegerlooks like 0.0.8 is the way to go09:51
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Romsterjaeger, i have a openal port thats more recent may help ya.10:06
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Romstergot a sepearate shell script to fetch and archive the program after running autoconf etc.10:07
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jaegerRomster: any benefit to it vs. 0.0.8?10:17
Romsternot sure i never did use 0.0.810:18
Romsterafaik10:18
tilmanhow about sticking 0.0.8 in and waiting for complaints? :)10:19
Romsterheh10:19
Romsteryeah well i'm already complainging about flac..10:19
tilmanlet me address that10:19
Romsterrecompiling everything for it.10:19
tilmanRomster: feel free to fix the apps that are broken10:20
tilmanas i've already mentioned here, flac 1.1.3 (which introduced the api break) is now out for a 3/4 year10:20
Romsteri had to goto a pre release of libsndfile.10:20
Romsteryeah quite old.10:20
tilmani should have told the list about the update though10:21
Romsterthat would of been nice, i only found out of the API change since vico said it.10:21
j^2I FUCKING HATE INDIANS10:23
j^2AHHHHHHHHH10:23
RomsterO_o10:23
tilmanthanks for that bit of information10:23
Romster</offtopic>10:24
namenlosif i am in the slim preview window, how do i quit it?10:30
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namenlosah, stupid me: it is "exit" ....10:32
Romsternamenlos, lol,,10:40
treachs/,,/../10:42
Romsterman devorak takes some geting used to10:43
treachmmh, tried it, decided it wasn't worth the pain.10:43
tilmanasdf doesn't work on dvorak :(10:43
treachhehe10:43
treachyou mean you'd have to reset all your pwds?10:43
treach;)10:44
tilmanhah10:44
Romsteraoeu :P10:44
Romsterman back to qwerty, thats some getting used too...10:47
treachswitching to dvorak is much more painful.10:50
Romsterreally, will have to see once i get used to it.10:50
treachwe're not in the same position really, you know.10:50
treachyou might tend to forget it, but my native language isn't english, after all.10:51
treachI need those funky chars you think are so funny. :/10:51
treachthat's on top of having to reteach your muscle memory the positions of the keys. :/10:52
Romsterthe amults or what that word is10:53
treachsorry?10:54
tilmanumlauts10:54
Romsterand yeah dvorak is suited for english but there is varations of.10:54
Romsterah thats it, umlauts10:54
treachtilman: not really, "å" isn't an umlaut10:54
tilmantreach: mmh. tried "blowrak"?10:54
treachno10:54
tilmantreach: that's a dvorak mod that andersg wrote. for swedish, i guess.10:54
treachthere's some guy who made some inofficial mapping for swedish, but it's painful to set up10:55
tilmanit's even in the swedish wikipedia o_O10:55
Romsterthere is one now?10:55
tilmanthe link http://0x63.nu/blowrak/10:55
treachRomster: you're making as much sense as a bicycle to a fish currently.10:56
Romstereh sorry, let me rephrase that.10:56
Romstertheres other dvorak layouts for diferent languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Dvorak_and_others10:57
Romstereven one handed!10:57
treachk..10:57
treachtilman: I'll look more into that blowrak thing when I'm back home, which should be tomorrow.10:58
Romsterand a programmer one that puts the numbers on shift and there defaulted to brackets etc.10:58
tilmani guess that vim isn't nearly as much fun with dvorak as it is with qwerty10:58
treachno.10:58
treachthat's another reason I'm hesitating10:58
tilmani should ask the other 2 xmms2 persons who are also blowrak fanboys how the handle vim with it10:59
treacheven though c-] isn't too much fun on qwerty either. :D10:59
teK_do it on qwertz ..11:00
tilmantrue11:00
tilmanteK_: nooooo :D11:00
treachnever used qwertz, only seen it. :)11:00
teK_one of the resons I switched to qwerty11:00
tilmanteK_: ditto11:00
teK_it's kind of natural in germany ;>11:00
teK_frigglin' Umlauts!11:01
treachyeah I know.11:01
tilmanqwertz just sucks for programming11:01
tilman{} [] etc omg11:01
teK_right11:01
treachI saw it on some crazy former eastgerman teachers laptop, which he had pasted chyrillic signs over most of the keys. :p11:01
treach"on which", I guess.11:02
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treachHah, nice nick.. "Liket" -> "The corpse"11:05
tilman:[11:06
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thrice`tilman: are any of the doc files xbm stuff) used in openbox ?11:09
tilmanstill not sure11:10
thrice`heh, alright...only curious11:10
tilmani'll have to read the source to find out it looks like :/11:17
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tilmanis anyone here running with ~ being an encrypted partition?13:50
tilmanViper_: you maybe?13:50
tilmani wonder if it's fast enough13:50
treachfast enough for what?13:51
rehabdollporn?14:22
ssimonteh internet is for porn.. mhh.14:22
tilmansorry about the insanely vague question14:22
tilmanyo ssimon14:23
tilmantreach: compiling stuff eg14:23
tilmantreach: creating lots of object files might be sucky with luks/encfs/...14:23
Romsterwhy would you wanna compile on a encrypted FS?14:28
treachmmh, I've never used it myself, but that sounds like a bad idea.14:28
tilmani want to compile in ~14:28
tilmanand i ponder encrypting the whole /home partition14:28
Romsterand there is a encrypted swapspace system too so there must be a fast alog out there.14:29
treachI think that would bee too expensive wrt cpu.14:29
tilmanyeah, maybe14:29
treachRomster: pray you don't have to hit that swapspace hard..14:30
treachsome things are possible, but that doesn't mean they are good ideas in a general case. :)14:30
Romstertreach, yeah i gather it would be expensive.14:31
Romstertilman, is home on a seperate partition?14:32
treach...14:32
Romsterwell it could be off root treach14:32
Romstermine is.14:33
treachno, not if you reread what he said.14:33
tilmanyou cannot encrypt single directories14:33
tilmanso of course it's a separate partition ;)14:33
Romstervirtual directorys to a encryped file.14:33
vektoritilman, yes you can.14:33
vektoriEncFS is specifically for this purpose.14:33
tilmanmmhkay14:34
treachtilman: well, you can put it in a file mount it14:34
tilmani planned to use luks anyway ;)14:34
Romsteryeah i read about that.14:34
Romsternever tryed it though.14:34
Romsterwe got something super secret in the works :P14:34
Viper_tilman: no i am not using an encrypted home partition14:37
tilmanok14:40
tilmanhttp://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/07/26/1428207.shtml15:23
* tilman crosses fingers15:23
RomsterI was originally going to make a statement saying that ATI hasn't been too terrible lately, but after all of the corrections I had to make just to comprehend your post, you instead left me wondering if you're missing a finger.15:42
Romsterhah15:42
treachyu? isn't that kind of rich? Or am I in the wrong channel..?15:45
thrice`the xorg ati driver is alright15:46
treachno.15:47
treachit's not. It drains battery like there's no tomorrow15:47
jjpkIf this laptop had an ati chipset, it would not matter much.15:48
thrice`ah...never used it with a laptop =\15:48
jjpkThe battery is dead. :p15:48
jjpkNot much of a mobile laptop left.15:49
treachjjpk: hmm?15:49
treachthis one is pretty mobile.. with some assistance, of course. :)15:49
jjpkA laptop is a laptop. ;)15:49
tilmantreach: try the randr-1.2 branch15:50
jjpkI just cannot unplug mine because the battery is completely wasted.15:50
jjpk2 minutes is pushing the boundaries. :D15:50
treachtilman: I'll wait for it to become official, I'm not that desperate for graphics.15:50
tilmanapparently you're desperate enough to nag :>15:51
jjpkhaha15:51
treachno, I'm not nagging, I'm just noting that the driver isn't a-ok.15:51
jjpkNagging, or is it an observation made while being annoyed about it? :p15:51
tilmanok15:51
treachjjpk: I can still work on it, and it doesn't really annoy me as such.15:52
thrice`my macbook still lasts about 4 hours15:52
tilmanhttps://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=706115:52
tilman# Make sure you have DynamicClocks enabled in your xorg.conf15:52
jjpkI should replace the laptop's battery, but I am cheap about it.15:52
treachof course I'd like some improvement, but I'm just fine with the console as well.15:52
treachvim is vim, no matter what. :D15:53
treach(except gvim, which is crap. :p )15:54
thrice`i honestly have never used linux on a laptop; this macbook is my first laptop ever.  Does X really kill it ?15:54
tilmanwait15:54
treachI think it's ok, depending on what drivers you're using.15:54
tilmanyou got a macbook, and did NOT shout about how awesome it is?15:54
* tilman takes a note15:54
surrounderlol15:54
jjpktilman: yeah it does seem more often than not.15:55
tilman:)15:55
jjpkSaying 'macbook' seems to unleash the fan boys.15:55
jjpkNot always, but often.15:55
treach"Fläktpojkar" tihihih15:55
tilmanor 'mac' or 'i<randomwordhere>'15:55
tilman;)15:55
jjpkAnything apple, really.15:56
tilman:D15:56
jjpkThey do make a range of decent products, but I do think they are overly hyped.15:56
tilmanthough i guess cruxers are more resistant to it15:56
tilman;>15:56
treachheh, with a few exceptions.15:57
treachlike the *oohshiny* gnome departement. ;)15:57
tilman:>15:57
jjpk:D15:57
jjpkOccasionally they swing by.15:57
thrice`lol15:58
jjpkAt times these fanboys become pastors and entirely too religious.15:58
jjpkBelieve what you want, but keep it to yourself. :D15:59
treachwhy, you mean I'm not allowed to evangelize the viritues of vim and fwvm to the masses? :p16:00
treachfvwm*16:00
tilmanvim evangelists aren't as annoying as istuff evangelists16:00
tilmanmaybe cause vim is good and free16:00
tilman}:)16:00
treachhehe16:00
thrice`likely16:00
jjpkCould be.16:00
treachwell, it's charityware, afaik16:01
thrice`or, because it's included in os x16:01
treachit is?16:01
treachrotten apple.16:01
thrice`i'm pretty sure...hrm, now i'm questioning16:01
jjpktreach: officially yeah, but I doubt most users are donating.16:01
treachms actually did. :>16:01
tilmantrue16:01
tilmani probably should register16:01
tilmani know a guy who loves vim that much that he sponsored a kid in whatsthecountry16:02
tilmanah, uganda16:02
treachyeah.16:02
treachfor kicks I was about to suggest nigeria, but I felt it would be bad taste. :)16:03
tilmannigeria only has scam artists and kids who surf for porn in elementary school16:03
tilmanor so i've heard16:03
tilman:D16:03
treachbut oth, aren't everyone in nigeria a prince?16:03
treachbtw, jjpk I don't think most users even know it's charityware.16:05
jjpkEssentially it is open source, but I think you are right.16:05
tilmanit is "free"16:05
Romstercharityware = free but a donation is galdly welcome?16:07
jjpkSomething along those lines I suppose.16:07
tilmanyeah16:07
Romstermore of a guilt that you didn't donate to it if you like it and use it16:07
tilmanheh16:08
tilmanthe guy is actually called "abraham"16:08
Romsterlol16:08
treachRomster: http://www.vim.org/about.php16:09
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Romsterhi sepen16:10
sepenheyo16:10
treachapropos nothing really, but what is the position wrt tetex? It's apparently unmaintained as is.16:12
treachdebian and friends have afaik switched to texlive16:13
sepenIm porting this http://www.fluffy.co.uk/boxbackup/16:13
sepenseems to be nice for my plains at office16:13
prologictreach, will apps that depend on tetex be compatiable ?16:14
prologiceg: lyx16:14
treachNo idea.16:14
treachJust read about it, and wondered if anyone else had noticed.16:14
tilmani didn't16:15
tilmandownload of tex live is one gb16:15
* tilman is too SHOCKED to read furhter16:15
Romsterholly crap...16:15
prologicshit16:16
prologic1GB!16:16
prologicfuck16:16
jjpkLive-cds are the new universal installer.16:16
jjpkActually, you don't have to install anything apart from running it.16:16
jjpkSerious overkill imo.16:16
Romstersepen, rbackup looks simaler to that.16:16
sepenhmmm16:17
Romsterlisted on freshmeat16:17
prologicbut I like boxbackup better :)16:17
sepenrbackup isnt ported too16:17
sepenyeah, also I can run directly on my obsd box server16:18
Romsterheh k16:18
jjpkI wonder what made the tex people start favoring texlive.16:18
Romsterthought i'd mention it.16:19
jjpkOne release a year and they keep bugs in them o_o16:19
jjpkProbably nothing serious, but waiting for a year seems a bit too long. :p16:19
treachjjpk: as I said, tetex is apparently not maintained, and it has security issues.16:20
treachlike this -> http://www.debian.org/security/2006/dsa-93716:21
jjpkThe site says abandoned in may 2006.16:21
treachyeah.16:22
jjpkTetex at least was more manageable in terms of size.16:23
prologiclet's roll our own :)16:24
treachtrue, but using abandonware with potential securityissues isn't nice either. :&16:24
treachI nominate prologic16:24
prologicknew you'd say that!16:24
prologic:016:24
treachpresumeably we could nick red hats patches or something16:26
jjpkCould be one solution.16:34
jjpkIt would be a shame to lose tetex.16:36
tilmannot having a tex system is not an option :)16:38
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jjpkWorst case would be running protext in wine. :p16:43
treachyuck16:43
jjpk:p16:47
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Viper_tilman: i guess i can disable your rsync repo listed in the portdb?17:01
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tilmanViper_: my ports are on crux.nu now. didn't the db reflect that change?17:06
Viper_no17:08
Viper_what's the new url?17:08
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