IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2007-08-13

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sepentilman, here?01:34
sepenI read now your reply about ticket #18001:36
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nipuLsweet, i've got a new job02:24
nipuL600km's away02:25
rxicool ... sydney?02:28
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sepentilman, ping03:25
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DarkNekrosgood morning you all ;)04:02
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thrice`tilman: rxvt-unicode needs a bump to 8.3.  I couldn't get 8.2 to download last night.  I think I also had to specify --mandir in configure07:01
jjpkIt has been quite a while since 8.2 was released.07:07
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sepentilman, ping09:24
tilmansepen: pong09:53
tilmanthrice`: okay, thanks09:54
thrice`tilman: sure :)09:55
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sepenhi tilman, it's about
tilmanokay, what about it?10:01
sepenI found that we can avoid to use /tmp when pkgmk is doing build() routines10:01
sepeni.e I only have around 100megas of tmpfs in /tmp10:02
tilmanwhat do you suggest then?10:04
sepenpatch rpm2targz ?10:05
tilmanread line 34 of rpm2targz10:05
sepenor simply use the environment variable TPM10:05
tilmandid you even read my comment on bug #180?10:05
sepen${TMPDIR:=$TMP} that?10:05
tilmanwhat i suggested there should work10:06
tilmanor did you try it and it didn't work?10:06
thrice`hrm, clicking the task number in Timeline on doesn't redirect to the proper task/bug10:06
tilmanmaybe i can fix that10:07
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sepentilman, all works fine for me after applied: install -d ${SRC}/tmp; export TMPDIR=${SRC}/tmp10:09
* sepen (sleep 5m)10:12
tilmanpwd is $SRC anyway10:13
tilmanso why not use export TMPDIR=$SRC?10:13
tilmanit's shorter :)10:13
tilmani think i need a nap, too10:13
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teKI just updated a fresh installation of pkgutils, does it still not honor a Depends on: XXX for prt-get update foo?10:29
thrice`you mean if new deps are presented from version A to B ?10:30
teKyep. pkgutils in this case. libarchive was introduced meanwhile10:31
thrice`I think that should be something to go into prt-get, personally10:31
teK"go into"? I'll have a look at its source..10:32
thrice`well, belongs in*10:32
sepentilman, yeah10:34
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sepentilman, TPMDIR=$SRC; rpm2targz ... sounds good for me10:34
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teKyou better use for translation ;)10:41
teKah you're not german. sry.10:41
thrice`what is the german word?10:45
thrice`kurtzschlaf ? :)10:45
teKkinda, yes. Or Nickerchen10:46
thrice`well, Kurzer Schlaf, probably10:46
loupgaroublondgerman - turning 1 syllable english words into 10 syllable words since the 1400s...10:47
teKso right10:48
teKbut - sorry - sometimes English (US) ist really primitive10:48
loupgaroublondthere are some things that you can only figure out how to express when you're a native speaker10:49
loupgaroublondwe don't have a 'word', but you take things out of context10:49
teKIt guess german is hard to learn, yes10:49
loupgaroublondit is10:50
loupgaroublondthat 'there is a special word for every case' thing tripped me up alot10:50
teKI often try to imagine how difficult it would be to build an interpreter for my native tongue :)10:51
loupgaroublondfor german?10:51
loupgaroublondeasier than american :P10:51
teK"And I was like OH MY GOOOOOHOOOOD" .. interpreter.oO(wtf)10:52
jjpkInterpreter eh11:08
jjpkloupgaroublond: I would say it is the opposite.11:23
jjpkModen day English as we know it, came much later than its proto-germanic ancestors.11:24
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loupgaroublondjjpk, true11:41
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tilman"kurzer schlaf" isn't a word12:46
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Romsterhow do i ever download a file like this in Pkgmk?21:31
Romsterwon't even fetch it..21:31
Romsterhmm never mind i'l need to mess with curl..21:32
Romsterand do a post action..21:33
predatorfreakLol, I love the media at times.21:43
predatorfreakThat's not news, we've been defeating MP3 in sound quality forever now.21:43
predatorfreakand everyone knows earbuds have terrible quality.21:44
predatorfreakThe even crazier thing is, it's like "The audiophiles are the most important people here!"21:45
Romsterearbuds suck mp3 is average not hi-fi.21:55
predatorfreakRomster: Exactly my point.21:56
predatorfreakEveryone knows that.21:56
predatorfreakQuality freaks either use a high quality codec at a high bitrate, FLAC or something else and own a decent pair of headphones.21:57
predatorfreakThe rest of us humans who can't tell a CD from a 128KB/s Vorbis file don't care ;)21:57
predatorfreakAlthough, I can't stand earbuds myself, they "feel" wrong and sound wrong too!21:58
predatorfreakloupgaroublond: Personal taste really.22:00
loupgaroublondno mp3 player supports them really22:01
predatorfreakI've never been able to tell the difference between a 128KB/s musepack file and a 118KB/s Vorbis (or even 100KB/s Vorbis)22:01
predatorfreakSo, for me, Vorbis wins purely on a size matter.22:01
predatorfreakBut hell, even at the exact same bitrate, I can't tell the difference.22:01
predatorfreakThey're both great codecs.22:01
predatorfreakThe only area Vorbis does better at is really low bitrate encoding and then that's only with the aotuv tunings.22:02
predatorfreak(To be honest, I think any recent codec at 96KB/s or above is generally damn good._22:03
loupgaroublondmusepack is better at not squashing the spatial effects encoded into music, which i tend to pick up on22:04
loupgaroublondbut for most people, the difference between mp3 vbr and musepack at the 192kbit range is pretty indiscernable22:04
predatorfreakFor most people that I know, the difference between MP3 at 128KB/s constant is indiscernible from a CD ;)22:05
predatorfreakWhere as for me, I can tell the difference between MP3 at that bitrate and a CD.22:05
predatorfreakWell, not always, but most of the time.22:06
loupgaroublondi also notice that the people who can't tell the difference are also pretty chatty when the music is actually playing22:09
loupgaroublondafk for a few22:09
Romsteri prefer FLAC22:11
Jason5876I grew up on tapes and LP's, so any digital sound sounds pretty good to me. :-)22:11
Romster128kbit mp3 and a cd, you have to be kidden...22:12
predatorfreakRomster: I'm too much of a diskspaceophile to use FLAC.22:13
Romsteri've even picked up on /some/ songs from 320kbit mp3 and cd22:13
Romsterbut when it comes to rock metal i can't at that bit rate but less than say 224 or 192 i can.22:14
Romsteranyone with expeareance with curl?22:14
Romsterpredatorfreak, oh and i captured a oops too the other day..22:14
Romster$ curl -d "baseurl="
predatorfreakRomster: The odd thing is that even my most complex rock encodes beautifully.22:15
predatorfreakWell, generally.22:15
predatorfreakSo long as there's some breathing room.22:15
Romsterdon't work and i've got the values off the site..22:15
predatorfreakObviously I can't use 64KB/s across the board ;)22:15
Romsterso mousepack you think gives better dynamics or spactual stereo sound?22:18
Romsterdepends on the music style really.22:18
Romsteryou tryed AAC+?22:18
predatorfreakSounds great for most stuff at below 96KB/s.22:19
predatorfreakFine for portable usage or use with low quality speakers/headphones.22:19
Romstersoupsed to be good for lower bit rates.22:19
predatorfreakSome stuff encodes like fuck.22:19
predatorfreakand other stuff I notice the chopped off upper frequencies.22:20
Romsteryeah i was thinking of a portable player pourpose not a home codec.22:20
predatorfreakBut for most rock and metal it's fine.22:20
predatorfreakThe only stuff that I notice it every time on is Alabama Thunderpussy - Staring At The Divine22:20
Romsteri hate choped off high frequences i can hear very high22:20
Romstertrashcan cymbool sounds are ecky.22:21
predatorfreakRomster: Thing with the album I mentioned is how robotic the guitar sounds.22:21
Romsterthat washysound ya get at lower bitrates.22:21
Romsterhmm looses harmonic sounds?22:22
loupgaroublondRomster, AAC+ instead of musepack?22:22
predatorfreakI think it's primarily due to the fuzziness of the guitar and such.22:22
predatorfreakIt's amplified like fuck and distorted to fuck too.22:22
predatorfreakand when you start chopping the upper frequencies the distortion and fuzz sounds robotic.22:22
Romsterloupgaroublond, nah AAC+ instead of oggvorbis and MP3/MP3+ for portable players.22:23
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Romstermousepack verses oggvorbis vs mp3 at 320 bit rate i'm intersted in.22:23
predatorfreakRomster: If players supported Vorbis fuck, I'd never need AAC+.22:23
predatorfreakThe quality of Vorbis at 96KB/s is damn solid with the aotuv tunings.22:24
predatorfreakSo I'd set ;)22:24
Romsterhmm true22:24
Romsterdosn't vorbis sue more cpu than mp3/aac22:24
predatorfreakand MP3Pro is shit, it's MP3 with freaking frequency chopping.22:25
predatorfreakAka sounds-like-fucking-crap.22:25
predatorfreakRomster: More than MP3, yes.22:25
predatorfreakMore than AAC, not sure.22:25
Romsteronly good for dialup streams22:25
predatorfreakI think they're about the same.22:25
predatorfreakRomster: AAC-HEv2 is good for that.22:25
predatorfreakSounds "solid" at 64KB/s.22:25
Romstermakes battery use on a portable device have to be bigger.22:26
predatorfreakEh, the usage isn't significantly more.22:26
predatorfreakIt's maybe ~10-20 minutes of battery life.22:26
Romsterpredatorfreak, you do al your stuff in vorbis 96?22:26
predatorfreakand I've seen players that can go for ~8 hours with it.22:26
predatorfreakRomster: Nope.22:26
predatorfreak-q 3.22:26
predatorfreakWhich is ~113.22:27
Romsterah quality of 322:27
predatorfreakI like the extra headroom.22:27
Romsteri'll do a sound comparsion one day.22:27
predatorfreakand -q 2 (~100KB/s) sounds about the same.22:27
predatorfreakBut it's not a decent decrease in size.22:27
Romsterfrom cd to all them formats.22:28
predatorfreakMaybe ~1MB per album.22:28
predatorfreakwith AAC-HEv2 though.22:28
Romsterah so -q4 has alot bigger?22:28
predatorfreakI just got a whole album to ~16MB :)22:28
predatorfreakRomster: Nah, ~1-5MB more than -q 3.22:28
predatorfreakBut the quality is only slightly better on really weird samples almost no one listens to.22:29
predatorfreakSo it's almost pointless.22:29
Romsterah k22:29
Romsteri see you've spent alot of time picking it :)22:30
predatorfreakYeah, I must have tested each codec like a million times.22:30
predatorfreakand Vorbis has universal PC support, with homebrew it works on my PSP, the quality is really high.22:30
Romsteri hate when ya get like 20 options for quality :D22:31
Romsterspend weeks figuring what to use.22:31
predatorfreakand since the PSP STILL doesn't natively support AAC-HEv2.22:31
predatorfreak(or AAC-HEv1 either)22:31
predatorfreakI just decided on Vorbis.22:31
predatorfreakTo save me the time of rerips/22:31
predatorfreak-/ +.22:31
Romsteri see.22:31
predatorfreakSony need to get off their asses.22:32
predatorfreakAdd AAC-HEv1/2 support.22:32
predatorfreakNative Vorbis support.22:32
Romsteryeah realy the PS3 is a joke..22:32
predatorfreakand stop buttfucking the bloody MP4 specs.22:32
predatorfreakI mean, they use a bastardized form of MP4.22:32
predatorfreakFor maybe ~100KB of space saved from not duplicating headers.22:33
predatorfreakNone of the standard tools are even willing to generate those files either <_<22:33
predatorfreakSo I'm stuck with mencoder and libavformat, which can't handle b-frames yet.22:34
predatorfreakPlus, I think I could save more space using b-frames than shit shitty non-duplicated headers :\22:34
Romsterwhat is up with MP4...22:37
predatorfreakRomster: I dunno, it doesn't seem like anyone can lurve the standard damn container format.22:37
Romsteri'd avoid mpeg having said that most of my stuff is in mp3..22:37
Romsterdivx vorbis flac i think will be my file formats.22:38
predatorfreakRomster: Pfft, go for H264!22:38
predatorfreakSuperior quality to DIVX/XVID.22:38
Romsterfor media.22:38
predatorfreakNoticeable too.22:38
Romsterreally H264 is better than xvid..22:38
predatorfreakI've gotten movies in the ~800-900MB range that look as good as the DVDs at DVD Resolution.22:39
Romsterok i'll haev to run some tests on that one :P22:39
Romsteri do have a h264 port too i think.22:39
predatorfreakx264 is the primary encoder.22:39
Romsteroh that sounds good.22:39
predatorfreakPersonally, I use x264 through mencoder.22:40
Romsterwhat extension does H.264 use?22:40
predatorfreakBecause I like the mencoder interface.22:40
predatorfreakDepends on the container.22:40
predatorfreakSome people put it in MP4 (e.g. QuickTime H264 files)22:40
predatorfreakSome people put it in MKV/OGM (like me)22:40
Romsterhmm what container format do you use.22:40
predatorfreakOthers are fucking retards and put it in AVI (DO NOT recommend)22:40
RomsterMKV/OGM ?22:41
predatorfreakMatroska (MKV)22:41
predatorfreakOGM = Ogg Media.22:41
Romsterah i see AVI alot..22:41
predatorfreakBasically Ogg extended for assorted other formats.22:41
predatorfreakMatroska is a ground up container, beautiful for containing just about anything.22:41
Romsterah so you use vorbis for sound and h.264 for video in that container format hmm22:42
predatorfreakI've got my personal movie transcoding/ripping script that rips everything in H264/Vorbis.22:42
predatorfreakand combines it into a Matroska file :)22:42
Romstercool i'm looking into that.22:42
predatorfreakRomster: if you've got git, git clone rsync:// would grab my whole multimedia script set.22:43
predatorfreakI warn you, it wraps like a million programs :P22:44
Romsterlol that don't bother me and i have to have git i'm in contrib :D22:45
predatorfreakThe main apps needed for convvideo (the ripper/converter) are gpac, mplayer/mencoder (properly built), mkvtoolnix and lame/vorbis-tools/faac (depending on the audio codec of choice)22:47
predatorfreakgpac is pretty much required for temporary streams.22:47
predatorfreakYou can't easily mux into matroska from raw files, sadly :(22:48
Romsterpredatorfreak, can ya see if you find a problem in that? thats nearly the same oops i get all the time..22:48
Romsterbugging me for ages.22:48
predatorfreakIt's a bug in handling memory.22:49
predatorfreakMight wanna memtest that system.22:49
Romsterthought as much22:49
Romsteri have it passed :/22:50
Romsterand i've changed the ram too.22:50
Romstereven cleaned the sockets with contact cleaner.22:50
predatorfreakHmm, try going back in kernel version.22:50
predatorfreakSometimes they fuck up and insert a dumbass bug.22:50
Romsterand thats the second computer thats a P3 that has that problem..22:50
Romsterthinking of going more recent *shrugs*22:51
Romster2.6.19 or something.22:51
Romsterdunno of any known issues.22:51
Romstersh: uname-: command not found22:52
predatorfreakRomster: How old is the system?22:52
Romsterthats my desktop kernel.22:52
Romsterp3 667MHz who knows..22:52
Romsterbut i ahd a 266MHz box and it did crap too..22:53
predatorfreakRomster: Maybe the memory controller is going bad?22:53
Romsterand the only other computer i know is stable is a amd K6II 450MHz but thats a i586 :/22:53
Romsterreally feel like throwing that pc and getting a minuture pc board..22:54
Romsterand making a compact firewall setup, it has a 80gig hdd in it for squid and other caches.22:54
Romsterbut its a expense i don't wanna do atm..22:55
Romsteri'll clean the ram again, would slowing the timming speed down in bios help?22:56
Romstermaye the cas3 might help too.. but slower ram..22:56
Romsterpc133 ram in a pc100 board... shouldn't be a issue..22:56
Romsteri'll mess around with it again later when i wanan taka sledge hammer to the mobo.23:00
Romstertime for food i think23:01
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Romsterquote "Saying Java is good because it works on all platforms is like saying anal sex is good because it works on all genders."23:57
Romsterhi rxi_23:58

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